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Fixating on the Trinity

Carnatic composers (other than performing vidwans)
sureshvv
Posts: 3627
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Fixating on the Trinity

Post by sureshvv » 20 Feb 2017, 19:38

What you are missing is that at the end of the day (to flog a much abused cliche) this is music & its value is in ONE thing -- how nice it sounds to the ear. And people are collectively giving us their judgment. Hanging on to the SSP or anything else is just going to leave you hanging :)

shankarank
Posts: 1149
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Fixating on the Trinity

Post by shankarank » 20 Feb 2017, 22:02

sureshvv wrote:
20 Feb 2017, 14:42
The one thing to look for in shankarank's posts are the links. They are very interesting/informative.
Like your one liners are sometimes very interesting but not very informative as not much substantiation is provided!

More on the word classical: They took the word class in it and its being spun around with class structure propounded by Marx. Really! tyAgaraja it seems was not actually poor - he had land in his name, but just took to unccavriddhi as a svadharma! Be that as it may - the sangItam that the now marginalized sections were singing was many times directed towards feudal lords ( zamindars) if we were to listen to this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqQBafUrR0o. The zamindars acquired more feudal characteristics as vassals of British than anything else. Previously even if they had power there were lot of counter mitigating factors.

See how the narrative is being twisted! Bourgeoisie Sanskritists "class"icized what was otherwise the art of the proletariat! What a brilliance?

What they say indeed applies to the first order sepoys (lawyers, bureaucrats) of the colonial rule! as the scene shifted to Chennai!

shankarank
Posts: 1149
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Fixating on the Trinity

Post by shankarank » 20 Feb 2017, 22:28

sureshvv wrote:
20 Feb 2017, 19:38
how nice it sounds to the ear. And people are collectively giving us their judgment. Hanging on to the SSP or anything else is just going to leave you hanging :)
Even as we critique the golden era - we miss one big thing - what happened during post golden era! Even as I seem to blame the british etc. - this wound is self inflicted. People started to listening to songs and not music thanks to films - esp. post ilayaraja. And the sad thing is people are looking for music in films - like trying to decipher ragams in film tunes! Golden era might have done lot of bad things to kritis - but it honed the layam - which is now out the door!. And there were musicians like MDR / BMK who worked counter to preserve sAhitya!

We should also remember Telugu ceased to be a prevalent language in the prime CM land post Trinity - and even Andhra musicians had to make a beeline to Chennai music scene for survival! But then even before meaning is ascribed to verses the sense that the sound/syllable itself is sacred and filled with music cannot be ignored in the Golden era musical narrative!

We indeed have the duty and the right in the same heritage to take the best and improve, but not purge some seminal aspects of what was before us!

sureshvv
Posts: 3627
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Fixating on the Trinity

Post by sureshvv » 20 Feb 2017, 22:30

shankarank wrote:
20 Feb 2017, 22:02
More on the word classical: They took the word class in it and its being spun around with class structure propounded by Marx. Really!
I don't think that is accurate. But the last couple of lines from the article conveys the intent of the author.
Here they are:
The most beautiful thing that human beings are capable of making is an equal society. If the classical can advance our collective journey towards the achievement of equality, then and only then is it worthy of our continued efforts towards its preservation and proliferation.
This does not look like something many would agree with, especially the 1st sentence.

shankarank
Posts: 1149
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Fixating on the Trinity

Post by shankarank » 20 Feb 2017, 23:57

The word equality is used in the sense of Marxism. The inequalities are from economic models of unbridled scale of production imposed on a diverse society - nothing to do with anything inherent in that diversity! So unless some social justice ( the way they deem it!) is to be achieved, they are saying there is no point in funding and preserving the old. Sanskriti and search for roots is inherently oppressive and down right fascist also! In fact it is some Aestheticization ( a word not yet in dictionaries) of power in the lines of what Hitler did in Germany - following from Frankfurt school of Marxism which tried to explain why Hitler and not a Leninist type revolution in Germany. Deep inside their research papers you will find the quotations - not in popular articles!

Their version of a new thing called plurality ( as opposed to inherent diversity of native societies) needs to include inherently non-plural ideologies like some of the Abrahamic faiths. These leftists are proxies for the powerful west and funded and abetted by them! They oft-repeat the word plural for the Indian society smudging the timelines and lot of brutal history behind it!

Before we try to agree or disagree with it - we need to think deeply about this!

sankark
Posts: 1174
Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 09:10

Re: Fixating on the Trinity

Post by sankark » 25 Feb 2017, 12:24

varsha wrote:
30 Jan 2017, 08:52
what is up with the fixation on Trinity and they are the be-all-end-all for CM?
You will have to enlarge on
fixation on Trinity - whose fixation - when , where , how ...

they are the be-all-end-all for CM?
who said so ? I have never understood it that way .
Point #3 of http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic ... 03#p312250

I haven't listened to the talk yet, so it might be some mis-paraphrasing.

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