T K Jayarama iyer

Carnatic Musicians
Radhika-Rajnarayan
Posts: 289
Joined: 27 Jun 2009, 20:18

Post by Radhika-Rajnarayan »

No, the accordion was played by a very talented guy called Nihar Rao. Raj Narayan is on the guitar! He plays the bass octave on the regular electric guitar instead of using a bass guitar.
He used to play spanish guitar and electric guitar (we have a couple of them, hand-made by him, at home)

Aren't the two compositions catchy? How far ahead of his time, Sri TKJ was! These were played by the AIR National orchestra in the early '50s! If more such compositions could be popularised, do you think we could get more people to listen to these and use them as a 'route' to Karnatic music?

rasaali
Posts: 172
Joined: 05 Feb 2007, 10:08

Post by rasaali »

Hello All

I have posted the two parts of Sri TKJ AIR Feature zipped files as separate files.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=dc2d ... f6e8ebb871

coolkarni
Posts: 1729
Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 06:42

Post by coolkarni »

..
Last edited by coolkarni on 26 Aug 2009, 09:28, edited 1 time in total.

rasaali
Posts: 172
Joined: 05 Feb 2007, 10:08

Post by rasaali »

Kji - Thanks so much. This sounds great!

RR-ji - As I said earlier, I am so happy to hear from someone outside my family that they think these compositions are a bit ahead of their time. TKJ's idea was to use this format as a new way of presenting the richness of our ragas and attract new audiences.

The pieces in the files I posted (Nattakuranji and Saranga) also demonstrate how he tried to handle traditional heavy ragas in this format. Hope you like them.

You MIL is probably performing in those pieces.

I have a few more that need some edits. I will post them in the near future.

Radhika-Rajnarayan
Posts: 289
Joined: 27 Jun 2009, 20:18

Post by Radhika-Rajnarayan »

I just heard those two pieces. If he was alive today, he would probably have been inspired by all the technology available and given us many more such superb pieces. These 2 are very attractive, and give another tonal colour and dimension entirely to these rakti raagas!
How I wish someone in AIR would take the initiative to bring out a CD of ALL the orchestral pieces by not only Sri TKJ, but also Emani, S Gopalakrishnan, the composer called Sehgal (if it WAS this person who composed the other 2 pieces I have not uploaded) and many others.

Gamakam
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 23:04

Post by Gamakam »

Rasaali,

can you send me a mail (ramchi@gmail.com)

rasaali
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Joined: 05 Feb 2007, 10:08

Post by rasaali »

gamakam wrote:Rasaali,

can you send me a mail (ramchi@gmail.com)
Just did. Hope you received it.

Gamakam
Posts: 241
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 23:04

Post by Gamakam »

Rasaali, got your mail and replied too. thanks

rajeshnat
Posts: 9906
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Post by rajeshnat »

rasaali wrote:Hello All

I have posted the two parts of Sri TKJ AIR Feature zipped files as separate files.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=dc2d ... f6e8ebb871
rasaali
Around the 30th minute in your 2nd clipping ,I heard your grandfather speaking with concise choice of words. Particularly he praises all the good developments but also notes that "there is an Unhealthy trend where today's violinist play the anupallavi in lower octaves and not in the prescribed higher octaves losing the actual rAga bhAvam. " He says that is an unhealthy trend taken up by young violinists , which is in the age group of the now so called greatest generation of violinist.

Any pointers there? Possibly it may be true. Do we have clippings of mayuram govindarAja pillai and Krishna Iyer (I am assuming thirukkodikaval) to really compare their playing with the likes of next generation greats of MGP and KrishnaIyer. (Attn Bala747, bilahari and violinlovers , can you tune with what shri TKJ says and dig your archives to find if his observation is right)
Last edited by rajeshnat on 25 Aug 2009, 21:17, edited 1 time in total.

rasaali
Posts: 172
Joined: 05 Feb 2007, 10:08

Post by rasaali »

rajeshnat wrote:
rasaali wrote:Hello All

I have posted the two parts of Sri TKJ AIR Feature zipped files as separate files.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=dc2d ... f6e8ebb871
Any pointers there? Possibly it may be true. Do we have clippings of mayuram govindarAja pillai and Krishna Iyer (I am assuming thirukkodikaval) to really compare their playing with the likes of next generation greats of MGP and KrishnaIyer. (Attn Bala747, bilahari and violinlovers , can you tune with what shri TKJ says and dig your archives to find if his observation is right)
Rajeshnat,

Does this comparative static exercise really have to be done? After all this is one person's opinion and he is long gone. I do appreciate the motivation to document trends but IMO, there is little to be gained by going through this exercise in the current case.

Traditional as it is, our music is ever evolving and there are always new things that are tried by each successive generation and it is possible the previous generations will not fully concur with these. Generation gaps exist in all walks of life.

I request you to view the comment in this spirit and just treat it as one small part of the whole AIR feature and let it rest.

Sincerely
Rasaali
Last edited by rasaali on 25 Aug 2009, 22:50, edited 1 time in total.

rajeshnat
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Post by rajeshnat »

rasaali wrote: Rajeshnat,

Does this comparative static exercise really have to be done? After all this is one person's opinion and he is long gone. I do appreciate the motivation to document trends but IMO, there is little to be gained by going through this exercise in the current case.

Traditional as it is, our music is ever evolving and there are always new things that are tried by each successive generation and it is possible the previous generations will not fully concur with these. Generation gaps exist in all walks of life.

I request you to view the comment in this spirit and just treat it as one small part of the whole AIR feature and let it rest.

Sincerely
Rasaali
Rasaali
Possibly this is given a slight discomfort to you as it would end comparing different violinists . I am certainly interested in that , may be that observation itself is so remote that it is difficult to grow a thread from there, that wish may itself die and will rest. Just two more wish list from here.

1. Can we have any recordings of Shri TKJ as an accompanist to vocal concerts please?

2. There was a mention that "TKJ also composed some thematic pieces like Meghadootam, Ritusamharam, and Abhigyana Shakuntalam. In 1957, he composed a special piece to commemorate the centenary of the Sepoy mutiny of 1857". Any more inputs there?

Gamakam
Posts: 241
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 23:04

Post by Gamakam »

rasaali wrote:
gamakam wrote:Rasaali,

can you send me a mail (ramchi@gmail.com)
Just did. Hope you received it.
Rasaali,

I hope you got my email. Could you pls. respond?

rajanp
Posts: 58
Joined: 19 Nov 2007, 13:39

Post by rajanp »

Aum

To the best of my knowledge Ramanathapuram M N Ganesan Pillai was his disciple as well.

I have many Vadya Vrinda Recordings in South Africa of Sri TKJ .
There is a short article and picture of Sri TJK in Peggy Holroyudes book tytles " Indian Music" published in the 1970'as about

Thanks

Rajan Padiachi
Jhb
South Africa
Disicple of Sri M N Kandaswami

rasaali
Posts: 172
Joined: 05 Feb 2007, 10:08

Post by rasaali »

rajanp wrote:Aum

To the best of my knowledge Ramanathapuram M N Ganesan Pillai was his disciple as well.

I have many Vadya Vrinda Recordings in South Africa of Sri TKJ .
There is a short article and picture of Sri TJK in Peggy Holroyudes book tytles " Indian Music" published in the 1970'as about

Thanks

Rajan Padiachi
Jhb
South Africa
Disicple of Sri M N Kandaswami

Dear Sri Rajan

You are an amazing encyclopedia on Carnatic trivia. I have read your posts on other topics as well and am amazed how well you have documented and read about music.

You are indeed correct Sri MN Ganesa Pillai was indeed a disciple of Sri TKJ. I have never met him but our family did receive a letter from him when we sent him an invitation for the TKJ centenary. We probably got the address from your guru.

What is more amazing that you have vadya vrinda recordings. I had assumed a number of them were lost to posterity. I wonder if you are in a position to share them with me. I will email you separately on this topic.

Regards,
Rasaali

rajanp
Posts: 58
Joined: 19 Nov 2007, 13:39

Post by rajanp »

Aum

See Book written by Peggy Holroyde on Indian Music
Sri T K Jayaram Ayyar had a great photo in there good pose
and short article on him.

I will convert vadya vrinda's of Sri TKJ and whne someone come to India very soon
i will send to members to upload, who will volunteer to do that for me?

Aum Gurunathar Thunai

Rajan Padiachi
South Africa

GCN
Posts: 3
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 11:16

Post by GCN »

hello

i m in new member . your aritcle was intersting. i will like to listen to the two parts os sri TKJ - containg nihar raos accordion music. please mail the same

gcn

my email id

gcn37@yahoo.co.in


note:-

i have also some songs similarly played on accordion.


which i can edit and send you .
Thanks



rasaali wrote:Hello All

I have posted the two parts of Sri TKJ AIR Feature zipped files as separate files.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=dc2d ... f6e8ebb871

rajanp
Posts: 58
Joined: 19 Nov 2007, 13:39

Post by rajanp »

Aum

I have vadya vrindas of Sri TKJ
i will collect all this week end and try to digitilise i can send CDS to Chennai
if someone can place on internet site
i collected thses on AIR in 1981 to 1984
Aum
Rajan

rasaali
Posts: 172
Joined: 05 Feb 2007, 10:08

Post by rasaali »

rajanp wrote:Aum

I have vadya vrindas of Sri TKJ
i will collect all this week end and try to digitilise i can send CDS to Chennai
if someone can place on internet site
i collected thses on AIR in 1981 to 1984
Aum
Rajan
Rajan,

If you send them to me I can share them out.

Thanks!

GCN
Posts: 3
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 11:16

Post by GCN »

rasaali wrote:Hello All

I have posted the two parts of Sri TKJ AIR Feature zipped files as separate files.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=dc2d ... f6e8ebb871

GCN
Posts: 3
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 11:16

Post by GCN »

Thank you very much for the response. I am unable to download with the mediafire link you had given. I have registered and subscribed in the medifire for this purpose. My efforts to download have failed as it calls for a software in all the players. Can you please send me the accordian songs as an attachment to the mail gcn37@yahoo.co.in, so that I can hear the music straight away, without going thru various routes. And I have already paid for these two downloads to Media fire.

regards
Gcn

djpbr
Posts: 1
Joined: 30 Oct 2009, 16:45

Post by djpbr »

Hi,
The discussion is very interesting but when I tried to download the file that you have posted in mediafire I get a message saying "0 files found". Can you please direct me to the zip file or email me the individual files to my email (djpbr@yahoo.com)

thanks
dj.

Radhika-Rajnarayan
Posts: 289
Joined: 27 Jun 2009, 20:18

Post by Radhika-Rajnarayan »

To GCN - I do not know whether accordion was used in AIR orchestra (most probably not) - the accordion is in the amateur group that played these compositions way back in the '70s - Nihar Rao was one of them.
Please see these links for the orchestra pieces of Sri.TKJ with accordion:

http://www.mediafire.com/?gzkjdtgjydn

http://www.mediafire.com/?mzzzdygmmym

In any case you need a player on your computer, that can play mp3 files to hear the music.

reethigowla
Posts: 5
Joined: 28 Mar 2008, 23:59

Post by reethigowla »

rajeshnat wrote:rasaali
Some time before I made a post asking if whether you are TKJ's grandson. You must have been wondering then about how I asked that. Your elderly cousin (another grandson of TKJ)with the same name as J of TKJ was my professor in my engineering course (now you will know the connection). I am sure How my professor got that expressive way of taking classes perhaps it is in the gene. ;)
By any chance did you mean Prof. Jayaraman in the ECE department of PSG Tech?

rajeshnat
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Post by rajeshnat »

-
Last edited by rajeshnat on 06 Jan 2010, 21:29, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
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Re: T K Jayarama iyer

Post by arasi »

Folks,
There are reasons for my resurrecting this thread after all this time:

Unlike our generation, the younger generation shows a lot of interest towards preserving the history of CM and in recording it for future generations. When we were growing up, we took the good things happening around us for granted, didn't do much about keeping diaries or records about the music which surrounded us. We did not care to put them down in words.

Well, just reading this thread from the beginning gives us an idea of what I'm trying to say. Rajesh, with his enquiring mind is often a catalyst. Vidya's posts are always full of valuable material. Here's a glimpse into how orchestral music in CM, thanks to AIR, was born and was nurtured by a vidvAn of great worth like Sangeetha Kalanidhi TKJ.

Rajesh,
I met Rasaali for the first time on 30 April at Sanjay's concert in Boston. We met briefly and he spoke about his grandfather's Delhi years and his association and friendship with our uncle VVSadagopan who was professor of CM there. Then Rasaali kindly sent me a copy of the page listing some musical events happening around the Delhi university campus which he came across while looking through old papers. It then struck me. Delhi in those years (fifties, sixties) was as distant as NA was from south India say, until a few decades ago! And history making, it surely was! The Cleveland phenomenon was preceded by a Delhi scene, it seems! Here, more with rasikAs, and there, mostly with musicians at the core, I suppose.

Rasaali who represents your generation is keener than our generation was in seeking the history of music, I admit. And, am I glad!

He might oblige us by posting that and some other material here, I hope. He's busy with his move, I know. Once they settle in the new place, I hope he can share more...

You will be excited to see young TRS's name too there!

Ramasubramanian M.K
Posts: 1226
Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: T K Jayarama iyer

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Arasi: As always you bring sharp focus to any subject or persona without the 'provocative"nudge!!
Rajesh's intentions are truly visionary in that he tries to extract links from the past to understand the present for posterity to understand CM history.As Arasi says when we were growing up we were "fed" lots of rationalizations in impromptu conversations from musicians on their "philosophies" or interpretations. When I recall and examine those statements and assertions--be it about Vivadhi Ragas or apoorva prayogas of Ragas- in the light of the many various thoughtful contributions by forumites,I have been able to discern which one of those interpretations are self-serving statements and the ones that have legitimacy to them.

I do not think Rajesh's intentions are to set one era of music /musicians against another. Although slightly a slight digression,I thought of 'resurrecting" from my archives a piece I wrote in 1974 for SHANMUKHA Magazine about the so-called"deterioration in Musical standards that was being bandied about in those days-immediately after the demise of the Ariyakudi-MMi-GNB-Alathur era.
Some extracts"

_"There seems to be a widespread lament that there has been a big change from a small body of connoisseurs into larger body of ignoramuses. Anecdotes would be cited in support of this statement such as that prominent music lover asked the Bhagavathar to sing a kriti in Saveri after the Vidwan had just finished singing that raga!! This would be offered as proof that knowledgeable listeners have become scarce and the market place abounds in mediocre listeners. There are old timers who wax eloquently in fulsome praise of the late Konerirajapuram Vaidyanatha Iyer's music and his "Laya" prowess.I wonder how many of these "listeners" would have understood the Laya intricacies well enough to appreciate. Chances are these "knowledgeable" listeners would be echoing the sentiments of a genuine rasika whom they look unto.
Lament by the old timers also takes the form of extolling the patrons of the past. The legacy of art produced with the help pf patrons--Rajahs,Zamindars is so rich that a myth has grown about it. The myth is often propagated by the culture elitists. We are told that the patrons of yesteryear are more sophisticated and more knowledgeable (although they may have been less educated in a formal sense) and more decent than those that exist today. Samuel Johnson's definition of a patron as "commonly a wretch who supports with insolence and is paid with flattery" does not seem far=fetched in the light of stories by artists themselves about patrons who were blind,bull-headed and boorish. One of the reasons these myths live on is because while patrons triumphs live their blunders are by and late forgotten. Patrons who were boorish enough to support the mediocrities of the past fade into richly deserved obscurity. Only those who guessed right are remembered. The history of patronage is thus biased and selective. There is no reason to believe that the patrons of the past were superior to our own.


There are many reasons WHY so many intellectuals,scholars and art lovers,regardless of caste,Creed or political persuasions warm upto the "elitist" line. I believe it is their sense of violated exclusivity . Once upon a time they could go to a concert hall or a museum without having to "jostle" with the "rabble". Today these self-styled cognoscenti cannot bear the sight of the "Johnny-come-lately"music listener who incidentally also happens to wield economic power acquired not by inheritance but by his own toil. It undermines their sense of superiority and their exclusivity has been violated. If Shanmukhananda Sabha gas grown from a tiny "avant grade" institution into flourishing repeatability and if this a cause for some elitists the threat may be more to their self-esteem than to Art.
The elitist line appeals to all of us who would love to sentimentalize and romanticize the past and secretly hate the present. When a music scholar of yore despairs of the socaled appalling tastes of the age we have a right tp ask whether there is not concealed within his charge, an abhorrence of our age that has little to do with aesthetics. Is it implied that aesthetic atrocities have not been perpetrated in the past even during those halcyon days and even by the most cultivated of aristocratic elites?"

End of quotes.

Apologise for this big digression. To put this in context I wrote this in 1974 from the USA(I had not gone to India since coming to the US in 1969 and as such much of what I wrote was based on a few articles and letters written in the HINDU not having had the opportunity to listen to live concerts in India--even to read the Hindu I had to come to the Consulate office once a week !!!) With the demographics leaning heavily towards the youngsters today in India ,most of what I wrote may not be much relevant.But we have to guard against the "Old geezers" like me whenever we step out of line and laud the past and decry the present!!!!

Ramasubramanian M.K
Posts: 1226
Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: T K Jayarama iyer

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Re; my post#76 a few inexcusable typos
In the FIRST para of the extract--the fifth line--"Chances are -------- whom they look 'upto' instead of 'unto' .

Same para: the third line from the last "their blunders are by and "large"(not 'late')forgotten.

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: T K Jayarama iyer

Post by arasi »

MKR,
I'm so glad you posted--with your seventies article extracts...

I may not be wrong if I say that Shanmukhananda Sabha was an inspiration for sabha culture? Being so far away from Chennai and yet having rasikAs who were keen on keeping their native classical music alive, wanting to listen to it often, wanting other citizens from the south to listen to it too? Encourage their children to learn the musicof their land? As a result, more concerts and more skilled teachers?

We have the recent version of it in the Cleveland phenomenon. Same story--distanced from the music culture of the native country, the story repeats itself with its own stamp of being, bringing about hundred artistes for the festival each year, and more than that, getting the children groomed by those very artistes!

Keeping all this in mind, I imagine the Delhi scene, in the times of TKJ and others. The atmosphere was different. University setting, non-ticketed music and lec-dem sessions happening regularly, free for all who went to listen, but the core is different there. Academics and artistes (in some cases, the two in one) gather. These are a blend of simple house concerts and scholastic enquiries. A page from Rasaali's grandfather's papers piqued my imagination. Of course, The Music Journals of the university are bound to yield a harvest of material for the present generation of young scholars and also to mere lovers of music.

In the sixties and well into the seventies, you and I barely had any idea about what was happening (being ship-wrecked as it were!). Our trips to India were far and few, lasting a couple of weeks each time. We went mostly because there was a wedding perhaps--but we were lucky if we could squeeze in a concert or two in that very short time!

Hope Rasaali and others bring more information about this pioneer of vAdya vrindA, and about the music scene happening then, which is after all part of CM's modern history...

Coming to think of it, Calcutta too is worth looking at for a parallel history. J&J come to mind immediately and Nandagopal, if he finds the time to participate...

Bala_sat
Posts: 5
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 09:56

Re:

Post by Bala_sat »

rasaali wrote: 13 Aug 2009, 22:34 Sri TKJ's Sankarabharanam Alapanai

Violin support: Sri V.K. Venkataramanujam


https://www.yousendit.com/download/YkxJ ... V094dnc9PQ
These links no longer work. Is it stored anywhere else ??

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