T.N. Krishnan

Carnatic Musicians
mohan
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mohan »

Sri TNK is currently touring Australia. I had an opportunity to record a radio program featuring music of TNK and it will go to air in Sydney this Friday night at 9pm Sydney time (it runs for 1.5 hours). It will be streamed live online at www.2ser.com but there is no podcast available. More details at http://many-flavours.blogspot.com/

venkatakailasam
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Re:

Post by venkatakailasam »

arvindt wrote:Dear divakar,

I'm a new member on this forum. I'm excited to hear that there is a recording of Ariyakudi singing the Chatur Raga Pallavi -

Thanks a lot,
Arvind

I have posted the Chadur raga RTP by Ari in another thread.
venkatakailasam

venkatakailasam
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Re: Chatur raha RTP

Post by venkatakailasam »

Chatrur Raga RTP: Ariyakudi Shri Ramanuja Iyengar :
Pallavi : Sankarabarananai Azithodi vadi Kalyani darbarukku

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=vka ... pMDVSjI3tU Part I


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=vka ... hi5emS45UQ Part II

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=vka ... itwNzx79vI Part III

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=vka ... T9nD9C1gQc Part IV

Total about 25 mts.
venkatakailasam

mohan
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mohan »

mohan wrote:Sri TNK is currently touring Australia. I had an opportunity to record a radio program featuring music of TNK and it will go to air in Sydney this Friday night at 9pm Sydney time (it runs for 1.5 hours). It will be streamed live online at http://www.2ser.com but there is no podcast available. More details at http://many-flavours.blogspot.com/
Reminder this show will be on air (on www.2ser.com) Friday at 4.30pm IST and 7am in New York.

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

Mohan, thanks for the info on the radio program. It will be aired at 4AM my time, so... is there any possibility of a recording? :(

mohan
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mohan »

I will try and get the mp3 recording of it. It is 90 minutes so the file might be rather large.

mohan
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mohan »

The radio show is available for download at:

http://rapidshare.com/files/419596303/T ... _Music.mp3

rshankar
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by rshankar »

Mohan gracias! Much appreciated...LOVELY program - great recording.

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

Thank you very much, Mohan. I will listen to the program on my flight back on Mon.

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

Mohan, that was indeed a lovely program, as Ravi has already said. Thank you very much. You pretty much covered the essence of TNK's music - the sowkhyam of his style was evident in the sAramati, the flow of his manOdharma in the nATTai swaras, his alacrity during accompaniment in MMI's kalpanaswaras, his sensitivity to the main artiste and to rAga bhAvam in MDR's kEdAragowLa, and his immaculate raga alapanai (punctuated brilliantly with pauses) in SankarAbharaNam. I have always been especially fond of his accompaniment to MMI and MDR and was very pleased that you chose those particular artistes in your program! Kudos!

mohan
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mohan »

Thanks - glad you enjoyed the show! The Sydney concert went off well and featured elaborate renditions in Chakravaham (Gajananayutham), Pantuvarali (Sarasaksha) and Kapi (RTP).

rajeshnat
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by rajeshnat »

vidwan TNK says:
I had an open-handed usage of Ariyakudi schooling because of my rapport with him during an impressionable age. Semmangudi always said, one has to be a slave to chaste melody, and his approach and add-ons got me into a bold bowing technique and a lucid left hand precision on notes.
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2010/12/10/stor ... 900300.htm

venkatakailasam
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by venkatakailasam »

delete

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

TNK and PMI play sukhi evaro (dated about 1977): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqa7pX0f ... ideo_title
TNK's use of the entire bow is almost intimidating! Thanks to Srikant for pointing out this link.

semmu86
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by semmu86 »

Thers is also a "bilahari" in this concert :D The venue is sastri hall and i dont think it is as late as 1977. Should be in the early 70's

thanjavooran
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by thanjavooran »

Shri [Master] ]T.N. Krishnan's experiences wih Music over the last 75 years.

Lec Dem @ MA on 17 12 2012



Few interesting points are as listed below .



His association with MA is since 1942

He was earleir given A/N 1st slot. In the next year itself elevated to the evening progrm.

He has accompanied all stalwarts viz Palladam,Palghat Ramu Bhagavathar, MVI, GNB, Musiri and SSI

He initially accompanied KR Kumarasamy during 1942 and in 1943 played for Thanjavur Nanu

From the age of 3 he started his musical journey.

His father Shri Narayana Iyer was his first Guru and gave him the violin and bow asking him to produce sound/music whatever he thinks.

He was asked to repeat the phrase his father sings and he was doing it perfectly.

Hamsadwani phrase Ga Ri Sa he was asked to play and he was continuously playing w/o break

This was going on as lesson for few days.

Then he was taught the few phrases in Hamsadwani and he had unique ability of reproducing the phrases he listened.

Everyday a new phrase was taught and at the age of 4 he was taught varnams on Thodi, Begada, Kalyani , Bhyravi and Saveri.

When he was 5 yrs he had these varnams on stock and was playing w/o mistake. His father used to wake him up by 4 am and will ask him to practice whatever he was taught the previous day.

4am to 6 he will do sadhagam of the same varnams and Bhyravi ata thala varnam will be there in the list.

Then he will go to school and even during lunch break he has to practice.

In the evening while returning from school his father will be watching him whether he comes home straight

He has never joined with his playmates for playing 'Goli kundu' and in the evening his sadhagam

will continue from 5 pm to 7 pm and again from 8 to 9 30 pm

This was his practice until 7 yrs.

He was then taught Vathapi, Brova barammma.

From that early age till now he has been practicing Bhyravi varnam

Playing this piece in childhood was not a problem. But even at this age he practices to enahance the beauty of that varnam with innovation of pidis and sangathis.

Bhyravi's 'pidippu' materialises [only at this age] now.

Now he has mastered all styles clearly viz playing varnams Kanada, Reethigowla, Narayana Gowla, Kalyani and others

Guru's personal attention is definitely needed and it was available in those days.

Learning through computer is not advisable and one should work hard to come up

It is a big handicap for playing to a concert since one has to reproduce what the singer performs.

Nobody excepting his father had commented about his performance in a concert as he used to observe meticulously

In earlier days he was simply reproducing what stalwarts would sing.

When he became independant [ let loose ] he had the problem of getting guidance from elders.

But SSI guided him properly and started teaching him the intricacies of CM

He will do sadhagam himself [ in his care ] but the sudden appearance SSI whenever he commits mistake was a blessing to him

After correction he will be going on singing that helped him a lot to shape his career.

Such training and guidance are important for anybody.

'Rajamargam' should be shown to students as T said in Karharapriya kriti Chakkani Raja

Whatever he is today it is because of ARI, Musiri, Chembai, GNB and SSI

Then he took the violin and started playing the various styles adopted by stalwarts.

He played Saveri as Musiri would sing

Then followed the style of GNB

He played Sankarabaranam in ARI pani.

He also sang in ARI style

SSI style of singing will be continuous and the bowing should be without break.

SSI only taught him elaborately the method of dilineation of raga

He played thanam also in the same style

MA Kalyana krishna Bhagavathar, his thanam will be continuous as he was a vina vidwan.

He has learnt from him too as he used to discuss after the concert elaborately.

His first concert in MA was in 1942 and it continues still.



My observations.



The hall was full of vidwans , vidushis and rasikas. One hour is not sufficient for such a learned person to share his musical experince. He mentioned that he has not touched the techniques of playing violin and requested to arrange during next year. There were frequent interruptions by Pappu rao by way of appeal to rasikas. When TNK was ready to answer or clarify any doubts by rasikas Pappu Rao squarly cut by saying that the sweet atmosphere need not be spoiled by unwanted comments and talks. This was not in good taste. In total the lecture in simple english was quite educative and interesting.



Thanjavooran 18 12 2011

annamalai
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by annamalai »

I thought it was a boring lecdem; not sure if this is even a lecdem.

Ok, he has playing from 3 years old, performing form 1942 ...

I thought he would recount some of the memorable experiences on the concert stage.

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

Thank you, thanjavooran.
But even at this age he practices to enahance the beauty of that varnam with innovation of pidis and sangathis.
He mentioned vallinam and mellinam here.
It is a big handicap for playing to a concert since one has to reproduce what the singer performs.
To me, it seemed he found it a handicap because everyone felt he "knew everything", and were not inclined to give corrections and suggestions, when he (and his father, and later, Semmangudi) knew there was still so much for him to learn.

Before beginning to demonstrate the musical insight he had gained from masters of the yesteryears, as Sri Sriram Krishnan began strumming the tambura, Prof TNK said that even when asked to sing by one's friends, etc., one should not sing without shruti.

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

The full TNK-PMI concert here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVepBhTbTo0

vasanthakokilam
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by vasanthakokilam »

He mentioned vallinam and mellinam here.
What did he mean by that? Can you or anyone else please elaborate? Thx.

semmu86
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by semmu86 »

I didnt know what he meant in the context of the lec-dem as i was not there, but vallinam-mellinam generally means the loud-soft phrases (If i can roughly translate and put it that way).

The usage of vallinam-mellinam is quite often while learning laya, as those kind of phrases are generally played to create a contrast....

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

Yes, he probably meant modulation of notes and phrases to best bring out the bhAvam of the raga and composition - it is a point RKSK made in his lecdem last year that I had recapped on the forum.

kaumaaram
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by kaumaaram »

A video concert of TNK at SPIC Macay

http://vimeo.com/34327723

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

A 1986 concert with Vidwans Palghat Raghu and Palghat Sundaram: http://www.sangeethamshare.org/sl/16-TNK_RAGHU_1986/

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

From the Madras Music Academy's archives, Prof TN Krishnan's Sangeetha Kalanidhi address: http://issuu.com/themusicacademy/docs/1981

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

TNK on art then and now:
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/stri ... epage=true

Link courtesy of Arvind. The pun at the end of the article is laughably terrible.

mahavishnu
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mahavishnu »

And not the first time that specific pun was used either.

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

Bilahari,

Wow! This article takes some serious knowledge and understanding of TNK's music to make sense of -- and more than one reading despite that!

Thanks!

KNV1955
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by KNV1955 »

Todays concert of TNK with his son Sriram at Nada Inbam was a memorable one. He is 84 years old. I am convinced his bowing technique is unique & flawless. The best technique for Carnatic violinist. Combined with his extraordinary aesthetic sense, the music lingers on your mind & touches your heart. Sriram has absorbed his technique well.His Suruti & Sindhu Bhairavi are still ringing in my ears.

vasanthakokilam
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by vasanthakokilam »

srikant, bilahari: I agree. There is so much good stuff packed in that article and it requires multiple readings. I have bookmarked it as well.

KNV1955, well said.
"The audience is discerning and does not hesitate to express its opinion and point out a flaw. But audience response depends much on what we serve them. We need to help them experience classical music’s strikingly emotional qualities, rich texture and culturally significant technique without making it formulaic or watering it down.”
A lot of what gets expressed in our forum by many of us is neatly put in context by the above. There are so many layers of meaning to what he says. One aspect of what he says can be understood by analogy with 'communication' in general. A technically correct speech/writing need not necessarily be emotionally satisfying or even communicate the meaning very well. On the other hand, one needs some level of technical skills to speak or write. There comes a point that such skills are good enough and what matters then is the stuff behind it. I think it applies equally well to music. A lot of CM rasikas for some reason get caught up in technical details a bit much which can interfere with their own full enjoyment of what is being offered. Aesthetically superior performance amidst possible technical imperfection is the key. And the reverse is bad. One can have a great concert even if it is technically not perfect. And Sri. TNK puts it on the musicians to strive for that kind of music that even this so called 'discerning and knowledgeable' rasikas can put their 'knowledge' aside and just enjoy the music.

varsha
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by varsha »

Combined with his extraordinary aesthetic sense, the music lingers on your mind & touches your heart.
A fine duet of TNK with Late Bale Khan(of Dharwar) on Sitar . With UKS - Ravindra Yavagal
http://www.mediafire.com/?x4qpup8mv5s69

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

Here is a 1983 live concert recording of TNK-Viji-Dorai:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/5i91ny

There is an elaborate raghuvara nannu, chakkani rAja (WHAT an alapanai), and RTK in hindOLam. The concert has that quiet dignity coupled with intensity that typifies TNK's art, with sensitive accompaniment by Sri Dorai. Viji's accompaniment is solid as well.

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

I opened my Sangeethamshare account with an upload of a 2001 AIR concert of TNK with KVP featuring a lovely brOvavamma with RNS.
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/vignesh/TNK/001-TNK/

Plenty of TNK, MSG, and MDR coming up in my folder, so if you like these musicians, keep a look out.

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

A video by Smt S Sowmya saluting TNK. ​http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo-RUcgt12c

rahm221
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by rahm221 »

Bilahari,

Can you please repost the 1983 concert recording of TNK-Viji-Dorai. The link has expired.

maduraimini
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by maduraimini »

T.N.Krishnan's violin is one of the Best. His music takes you to unimaginable heights. My children, who don't know Carnatic music, always listen to his violin and love it. My daughter makes it a point to go to his concert, when he is playing near her. I always remember him accompanying Ariyakudi, when I was young. They made a very good pair. His Sindhubhairavi is wonderful and makes me feel I am in heaven. It has been ages since I heard him in person ,but I do listen to him on You Tube and each time it takes me back to olden days. His music is special.

sitaky
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by sitaky »

Maduraimini, SPICMACAY has an array of vintage programmesfor their international convention at Kolkaata. Incidentally I am listening to T.N.Krishnan. The Shenai recital, the Sarod andHindustani vocal music are incredible.You name it and you have it.All the programmes are deferred webcast. A request -if you enjoy themplease post your views.
site :spicmacay.com.
Or addiqtd.com

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

Rahm221, I will reupload the TNK concert soon.

Maduraimini, a sindhu bhairavi is forthcoming too.

sraja
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by sraja »

Is it upload again the TNK Jugalbandhi with UKS on the mridangam. Thanks in advance

Aditto
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by Aditto »


SrinathK
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by SrinathK »

That photo of TNK in the Hindu article is interesting. I know that TNK's bow arm is the strongest in the field and he still has a lot of muscle in that arm even in his 80s. In general as violinists get older, the bow arm is the first to weaken and lose it's suppleness -- which leads to loss of tone, articulation and technique. Without exercise, muscle strength begins to noticeably decrease near 50 onward. Which makes me wonder what he does to keep his fitness and energy at that age.

Also interestingly he has a finer tuner only on the E string (steel) so I wonder what strings he uses to get his beautiful tone. Also he tunes his violin to I think F or F# (4 or 4.5 kattai).

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

SrinathK wrote:Which makes me wonder what he does to keep his fitness and energy at that age.
He just bows the violin to keep his muscles well-exercised. :D
Also interestingly he has a finer tuner only on the E string (steel) so I wonder what strings he uses to get his beautiful tone.
He uses gut strings from Pirastro. He tunes them to F (4).

Indeed, he never uses the fine tuner. He is able to tune using the pegs even when bowing, so I guess he doesn't really need fine tuners.

SrinathK
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by SrinathK »

Ah, Gut strings, now I understand. Thanks srikant1987. And even though this thread is on TNK, do you have any idea on what strings MSG and LGJ played on? Old pics of Lalgudi and MSG seem to indicate that both used gut strings as well (no fine tuner even).

maduraimini
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by maduraimini »

Thank you sitaky for giving me the site for TNK's music. I will go to the site and look for songs I have heard him play. Thanks again. Bilahari, thanks for the forthcoming Sindhubhairavi of TNK. I am sure it will be a memorable one, as all his music was. Thank you!

Nick H
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by Nick H »

Is the use of gut strings a part of TNK's sweetness of tone?

(Of course, I realise that TNK is the major reason for TNK's sweetness of tone :) )

SrinathK
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by SrinathK »

Dear Nick H, as far as I know gut has the most complex range of sound colours and overtones and the sound of the strings is very sensitive to the quality of bowing, contact point, pressure, bow velocity and even the finger contact point & pressure, as well as the mechanism of gamaka and vibrato. However they need to be fully stretched for a week or so before they sound well, till then they simply "scrape and bite". Also they have to be tuned to the right pitch otherwise the lack of tension produces scraping noises -- the loose string will stretch and rebound like a rubber band whenever the bow changes direction. They are also sensitive to temperature and humidity changes especially in the beginning. Fine tuners do not work on them because they are too elastic -- if the tuning pegs and holes are properly bored it is easier to tune them with the pegs than steel strings (which are almost impossible to tune without the fine tuner). This is actually a plus from the tonal point of view -- eliminating the fine tuners reduces the mass on the tailpiece and this results in less dampening of frequencies.

Friction on gut strings is greater than on metal and so rosin is generally used only sparingly. Gut strings when played with a sharp attack close to the bridge have a certain "bite" with the bow and this results in a sandy "edge" to the sound that is however only heard at close range -- in mic-less concerts in concert halls, although the sharp edge is not heard, it nevertheless considerably improves clarity of articulation allowing the notes to be cleanly heard. At the same time with gentle bow changes, a skilled player can also completely eliminate all indication that the bow is actually changing direction. Another challenge in gut strings is that when playing high up the fingerboard, the pressure of the finger actually stretches the string enough to noticeably alter it's pitch as the string is pressed down to reach the finger board resulting in what sounds like a hastily corrected apaswaram. Also too much bow pressure at the start of the note could "choke" the sound of the string.

For added mass and more power, a typical gut setup in Western violin usually involves a metal (silver) wound G string (Gut core w/metal winding), either plain or silver wound gut D string, a plain gut A string and steel E string. (Gut E's have a wonderful sound, but break too easily) -- when carefully chosen, the steel E can nicely complement the warm sound of the guts with it's brilliance in the higher frequencies. Unlike steel strings, gut strings have to be tuned down and loosened at the end of every playing session otherwise they will continue to elongate and could break due to sudden temperature changes. Another issue with guts is that they don't last as long as synthetic or metal and are costlier. However they are much easier on the fingers as they are much less stiff.

Another specialty of this setup is that the bridge for gut strings is cut much higher than steel strings and where a steel E is used the bridge will be taller on the G side and slope down to the E as tension increases. Gut strings are also quite thick and so they require more strength in one's bow arm and wrist, but the thick string also produces a nice dark sound. Steel by comparison is quite thin.

Nevertheless with skillful bowing and good fingering technique, all the challenges with gut can be overcome and in the hands of a skilled player their sound is still unmatched. Also gut strings are very important in developing a musician's individual sound. As gut strings require very good bowing and tone production techniques, each artiste finds their own way to "tame the beast" and this gives each one their own identity to the sound. All the greatest violinists worldwide have therefore used them (with some exceptions) for classical music. The sarangi uses entirely gut strings for it's 100+ tonal colours after which it's named.

Sources : Lots of classical, carnatic & hindustani recordings and my experience last year when I was in college I got a new violin which came with a set of guts and a steel E. I had a very hard time settling down with them, but the tonal quality was something else. Steel might have the power, respond quicker and be considerably easier to play on, but the best tone belongs to the guts.
Last edited by SrinathK on 29 May 2013, 15:09, edited 5 times in total.

Nick H
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by Nick H »

Great insights ...Thank you :)

mahavishnu
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mahavishnu »

Srinath, Nice to see your continued scholarly contributions to the forum. Are you also trained as a violinist?
TNK has had this sweetness of tone for several decades now. Do you think he has been using the same kind of strings all along?

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

TNK has had this sweetness of tone for several decades now. Do you think he has been using the same kind of strings all along?
Yes, he has said so in interviews.

Besides, he has also said that he even uses the same gauge, from accompanying MDR to Mali. He earlier played solos in D#, and for some time in E, before moving to F. So that's where Nick's "major reason" comes in. ;)

He also points out that it was much harder to be choosy with strings and stuff back in those days (you couldn't simply visit www.pirastro.com and pay with your MasterCard, you know?) -- but his father and also Sri Papa Venkatramiah were very particular about them.

Sometimes the logistical difficulties musicians -- and music organizers -- faced in those days simply skip off our mind. It takes some candid talking by those people to get some insight into them. The Music Academy Session, for example.

Indeed, when these greats say, they started training at two or three, we only think -- yeah, that's a very small number. But it was when Sri TNK pointed out that he couldn't even read a clock when he was learning bhairavi varNam and such compositions that we really understand the kind of emphasis Sri Narayana Iyer laid on his musical training.

mahavishnu
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mahavishnu »

Some basic googling confirmed my "gut" feeling that gut strings are indeed made of animal gut. Has this ever been an issue in Indian violin circles? I am assuming people are just as comfortable with it as percussionists are with animal skin on their drums.

And so where did Indian violinists get their supplies from before this era of pirastro.com?

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