T.M Krishna

Carnatic Musicians
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mahavishnu
Posts: 3341
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 21:56

Post by mahavishnu »

Jayaram, Interesting point.
TMK often talks about commercialization of music and there being nothing wrong with it if you do not compromise on quality. In several interviews, he explicitly says that what people are buying into is a "brand". The quality of the brand helps sustain its impact and repeat purchases. Here is an articulate interview where he makes this point: http://brangan.easyjournal.com/entry.aspx?eid=2933599

In more regulated music businesses (W.Classical included), all the music produced by an artiste is actually owned by the recording company. Even concert appearances of these artistes are managed by the companies. I'm not sure if this is the right solution, but it is here to stay. Bootlegging at concert halls is highly frowned upon and big venues like the Royal Albert hall or Carnegie hall will not allow one to bring an ipod and just record off the air. Musicians are also picky about the quality of the reproduction (or lack thereof) that comes from even an unauthorized recording by anyone except for the producers from the company. In their logic, the sabha does not own any rights to the music that was performed there, it was just a venue.

We should ensure that the musicians come first and that they can make ends meet. It is of course important that sabhas succeed, but where would they be if the musicans cannot earn a meaningful living. Not everyone is St.Thyagaraja after all, and even his family was not too happy with his choices. If musicians were to succeed, they should be in a position to follow their bliss without having to work a day-job to make ends meet.

Arasi, I too long for those simple days of chamber music in someone's house and listening to KVN and Ramnad Krishnan, followed by stimulating discussions over idli that the host family lovingly prepares. Somehow I wish we could roll back time and go to this place where music was not a globalized commodity.

jayaram
Posts: 1317
Joined: 30 Jun 2006, 03:08

Post by jayaram »

T-shirts are very hard to copy and circulate, while CDs/DVDs are (and people often do). Therein lies the kernel of an idea for a novel approach.

And T-shirt is just an example, I'm sure we can come up with a CM-relevant one. (Although in my last trip to India, I found a classy, expensive [~Rs1000] desi T-shirt brand ['OM'?] being sold at airports.)

mahavishnu
Posts: 3341
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 21:56

Post by mahavishnu »

Another interesting interview with TMK
http://brangan.easyjournal.com/entry.aspx?eid=3191900

also relevant to the other thread where the discussion was about reaching out to non-CM audiences.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

A nice interview...Shows how talented all of these people are. I did not know that Gowri Ramnarayanan's talents ran towards writing plays! Wonderful...
And what Krishna describes as 'conveying emotion through the song' or using the voice to project emotion while singing is what people like Smt MSS and Smt MLV learnt when they sang for movies...the song was not merely a vehicle for their voices - the voice was an instrument to be used to project the emotion while singing - very difficult and way more complicated than 'mere' vAcika abhinayam - to maintain sruti/layam and yet project a visual image - the perfect example that comes to my mind is Smt. MSS singing Kalki's mAlai pozhudinilE - when she sings 'nAlu puram nOkki nAdi nAn yAr ingu vandadenrEn' you get the feeling of vallI looking all around, and hesitantly approaching the stranger...or in madhurAshTakam, when she sings 'smaraNam madhuram' one actually gets the idea of sweet meditation!

grsastrigal
Posts: 861
Joined: 27 Dec 2006, 10:52

Post by grsastrigal »

I had a very bad experience with TMK. I uploaded a video clip of Bogeendhra sayinam (KVrli) from his live concert here in Dubai in Sangeethapriya. S.Priya got a big mail from TMK stopping this uploading at once. I sent a personal apology letter to TMK and deleted that !!!

jayaram
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Joined: 30 Jun 2006, 03:08

Post by jayaram »

Perhaps you should have obtained his permission before doing the upload?

Ragjay
Posts: 208
Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 17:10

Post by Ragjay »

Cool is right TMK had objected to his concerts being uploaded on the sangeethapriya forum. It is not necessary to upload his concerts as most are commercially available.and he gives concerts frequently.When a performing artist has expressed his protest on upload of his concerts one must concede to his request and act accordingly. Frankly with so much of material of pastmasters available I would not want to possess his renderings recorded. Bye Ragjay

rajaglan
Posts: 709
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 21:34

Post by rajaglan »

Hi ,

I saw the list of postings here. There was a big gap in the middle.
Anyway I agree with Sreehari that that particular concert was good.

Actually the story goes like this. The sabha got a news of expiry of one of
the prominent member of the sabha just minutes before the concert. There was
silence observed for his soul and later the secretary of the sabha requested
krishna that he start/sing a kamboji as a respect to the soul as the member was
fond of kamboji. TMK didnot start with kamboji, didnot render second or third
song in kamboji. I thought how come such a simple request be ignored. TMK
really showed his magnamity by singing O rangasayee for an hour. It may be
a coincidence by god that he prepared for a mainsong in kamboji.

For sreehari, you can have the same expr by buying his commercial recording
O Rangasayee peformed in Kovai released by Rajalakshmi audio. It is a very good album
with three CDs worth any money.

Clarification required not for this site ( I have read the rule) but in general for anyone to pocess):
I think the following has no copyright issue:
1. audio Recording of a broadcast of a concert from a radio using the audio output from the radio. Am I correct ?
For example AIR recording of TMK (2007) in Mudra is available in sangeethamshare.
If this is fine, sreehari, you can download this too!

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »


kaumaaram
Posts: 380
Joined: 14 Oct 2005, 17:38

Post by kaumaaram »

grsastrigal wrote:I had a very bad experience with TMK. I uploaded a video clip of Bogeendhra sayinam (KVrli) from his live concert here in Dubai in Sangeethapriya. S.Priya got a big mail from TMK stopping this uploading at once. I sent a personal apology letter to TMK and deleted that !!!
A personal apology letter would have been unnecessary inasmuch as the objection was not addressed to you but to a forum. Yet, it is just your magnanimity that you apologised to him.

Kaumaaram

thanjavooran
Posts: 2972
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Post by thanjavooran »

Saftey First!
This reminds me of an incident few years back. TMK and Sudha did not permit the organisers to record their concerts when they were invited for fall concerts in one of the sabhas in bay area. Ofcourse it is their highly personal wish.

bhaktha
Posts: 323
Joined: 15 Jan 2007, 23:02

Post by bhaktha »

I had made the same point some time ago and don't mind saying it again: Why are current day artistes so bent on copyrights? If the yester year masters like GNB, ARI etc had done the same, we might not have had such huge collections of their music and would have probably had to be content with AIR broadcasts.
-bhaktha

mahesh3
Posts: 584
Joined: 06 Feb 2010, 21:32

Post by mahesh3 »

If an organization host a concert of TMK or any other artist, do they have copyright of it?
Last edited by mahesh3 on 13 Oct 2007, 18:57, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

We have bought tapes and CDs from the sabhas in the US of several concerts by different artistes--on reading about them in their newsletters and on finding them at their venues.
Last edited by arasi on 14 Oct 2007, 00:54, edited 1 time in total.

Sundara Rajan
Posts: 1081
Joined: 08 Apr 2007, 08:19

Post by Sundara Rajan »

It is simple: the motive is MONEY. If concerts are made available by sabhas for ONE price, umpteen copies are made and shared amongst friends, and the artist's commercial CD sales suffer. The sabhas of course, pay extra and get vaiver/permission from the artist for recording & sale, BEFORE the concert. Gone are the days when artists were actually PLEASED to learn that there were rasikas who desired to record their performance and share it with others!!

vijay
Posts: 2522
Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 16:06

Post by vijay »

Yes, the issue is money and I think the artists have every right to protect their commercial interests. I agree with Bhaktha about the need to preserve music for posterity and I am sure enlightened artists will ensure that at least some of their musical legacy is widely distributed. However whether and to what extent this is done ought to be left to the artist concerned

We live in a very commercial world and carnatic musicians are not exactly a pampered lot, financially speaking. Even the most successful artists just about manage an upper middle class lifestyle (as against light musicians who rake in lakhs of rupees for every performance/film). As for less popular musicians and accompanists, it is actually a bit of a struggle. Let us not grudge them their few avenues to a decent income - like us, they have mouths to feed, loans to repay, children to educate. There is hardly any point in comparisons with the past - a 2 bed room house in Mylapore did not cost close to a crore of rupees back then!

matterwaves
Posts: 130
Joined: 24 Aug 2007, 18:26

Post by matterwaves »

Couldnt have agreed more with you vijay..
vijay wrote:Yes, the issue is money and I think the artists have every right to protect their commercial interests. I agree with Bhaktha about the need to preserve music for posterity and I am sure enlightened artists will ensure that at least some of their musical legacy is widely distributed. However whether and to what extent this is done ought to be left to the artist concerned

We live in a very commercial world and carnatic musicians are not exactly a pampered lot, financially speaking. Even the most successful artists just about manage an upper middle class lifestyle (as against light musicians who rake in lakhs of rupees for every performance/film). As for less popular musicians and accompanists, it is actually a bit of a struggle. Let us not grudge them their few avenues to a decent income - like us, they have mouths to feed, loans to repay, children to educate. There is hardly any point in comparisons with the past - a 2 bed room house in Mylapore did not cost close to a crore of rupees back then!

thanjavooran
Posts: 2972
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Post by thanjavooran »

[as against light musicians who rake in lakhs of rupees for every performance/film]
shd we hv to equate C/Musicians with cine world artistes? Just my view.
" Make hay while sun shines " will be apt

vijay
Posts: 2522
Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 16:06

Post by vijay »

Thanjavuran my objective was to give a perspective on the financial position of our artists, not to compare them with film musicians. My point is this - it is not as if our musicians are millionaires who are out to fleece hapless rasikas. Whatever they make out of music, it is certainly less than they deserve. Therefore, I don't think it is right to grumble when a musician seeks to protect his/her interest although I guess it is only human to feel a little dissapointed.

mahesh3
Posts: 584
Joined: 06 Feb 2010, 21:32

Post by mahesh3 »

Vijay, I agree with you. Just wanted to point out that copyright is becoming an issue..the artists love it when an organization is responsible and uses its copyright effectively by sharing some of the funds or even all of the funds with the artists (including accompanyists). But, for eg, with big organizations like CMANA, this may not be possible. They sell each cd of a performer for a grand price (TMK's concert goes at a whopping 20-30$, in addition to the 25$+ tickets), and I am quite sure that sharing some of the funds with the artist is not a top priority. Last year, I heard that calling Dr BMK for Sangeetha Sagara award was a huge financial success (despite paying BMK a good chunk, and they had not even factored in cd sales yet)....which leads me to believe that artist recognition (for awards, concerts and all) today depends as much on financial brand value as much as anything else....following BMK with TNS this year only further confirms this belief...

In such a scenario, the ones that are to be careful are those who do their work in a quiet manner ignoring the limelight......I am not sure if a Sangeetha Sagara award to equally deserving musicans who are not in the limelight will carry the same fanfare....we need to enjoy the medium, and the music, and not the individuals...else, we will always have a cream of the crop...and most others languish in anonymity...that is why Ananya etc are such noteworthy ventures...TMK is careful abt his copyrights, yet we all know he along with other top musicians are doing their best in charity and other efforts for the medium...they are just careful in protecting their own interests, and I believe it is right. I know of a mridangist friend who was paid a piddling Rs 50 for a concert sometime ago...it is sad, disheartening and demoralizing....

I am sure all this is to be a sticking point in the days to come...
Last edited by mahesh3 on 14 Oct 2007, 19:49, edited 1 time in total.

ragam-talam
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Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Post by ragam-talam »


Ragjay
Posts: 208
Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 17:10

Post by Ragjay »

This is regarding the often referrd question whether the performing artist have copyrights over their public performances. The answer is so long as there is no commercial exploit then the artist who is paid for such performance has no right whatsoever. Please refer to the matter of Jaya TV marghazi utsav telecast they have permitted upload of their tv relay performances on sangethapriya.org site with a rider that no commercial exploit will be permitted.There was a letter from one of the members of that forum who happens to be a patent and trademark lawyer.which extensively covers this aspect From what knowledge of copyright law that I have gathered I have given my above view.I shall try to get the exact position from an expert and post the same.Ragjay

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