Ramnad Krishnan

Carnatic Musicians
RaviSri
Posts: 512
Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by RaviSri »

Absolutely delightful MKR. As a fanatic of Kamala, I envy you that you could personally not just interact with a live wire genius but even play with her, go for outings etc. How is the Lotus that Sprouted a Thousand Petals now? I am curious to know since she is now 79? I have spoken to her thrice in the 80s and 90s. What a simple, unpretentious soul, a humility that belied her great art and her enormous fame!

Kamala has given 2 or 3 vocal concerts, but when she was young. Pity she went away to the US. It was India's great loss and still remains so. Whence comes another such as she!

Ramasubramanian M.K
Posts: 1226
Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Ravi Sri: Yes--those were good old days--she was non-pareil when it came to dance.Unfortunately Life has not been too kind to her--she is very much a part of the NY scene--living by herself--see her regularly at the Temple--still manages to teach students driving long distances --unfortunately much of the local crowd have no idea of her greatness as a dancer.her only son is married and well-settled in California--despite several entreaties to his mother to wind up her teaching assignments and move to California(bay Area)--richer in culture than the NY area I might add--she is stubborn and chooses to to live her life independently with a deep "Nenjil Oru Mul"(thorn in her heart) feeling of not being recognized properly by the Govt of India and a host of other grievances.Socially in the NY-NJ area she is being treated with the respect that she deserves but does not seem enough for her.

For a person absolutely fun-loving and compassionate to the core she is now a shadow of her old self. Life has made her a bitter and lonesome person.
Sorry for the digression on RK .

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by rshankar »

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:RK taught vocal music to Smt Kamala Naraya(nee Kumari Kamala) in the early fifties--our family was/is still in touch with her and her family- Kamala was living with her mother and sisters in a nice modern bungalow in a lane called De Monte lane connecting San Thome High Road to the Beach. During the summer months when myself and my sister came to Madras, along with our cousins used to visit them and play cardscarrom etc. Generally when she did not have dance rehearsal with Vazhuvoor Ramiah Pillai (the dance ehearsals were rigorous and frequent and the practice schedules were tight because of Kamala's Dance commitments), RK would come for tuition. (he used to live in Nadu Street in Mylapore (as I recall)--not far from San Thome)

One day in late April, he came as per the schedule in one of those hand-drawn rickshaws to teach- in 102 degree heat-that was the day we had all planned to have fun, visit the Marina Canteen, movies etc--big deal in those days for us kids!!!. We had gathered in Kamala's house and were playing-when RK arrived Kamala was in no mood for tuition and literally pleaded with RK to reschedule much against her Mom's will. Somehow she "sweet-talked" RK saying we have come from Bombay etc etc. RK was very understanding-Kamala was sweet enough to send him back in her car--he was a good teacher--very patient (of course Kamala's celebrity status may also have been a factor!!) I think Kamala has given a record Kaddana Variki in Thodi (I think this was taught by RK!!)
Ramesh mama these links are for you and RaviSri...

https://soundcloud.com/archive-of-india ... ye-yashoda

https://soundcloud.com/archive-of-india ... -laksmanan

Jim
Posts: 21
Joined: 08 Nov 2009, 04:00

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by Jim »

I was pulled back to this forum after a long absence because I wondered how the discussion might be progressing. Next year, 2017, on September 14 I believe, will be the 100th anniversary of the birth of Ramnad Krishna. I would imagine that there will be some musical observances of this event. Three years ago, at the end of December in 2012, I was fortunate to be able to return to India after a 42 year absence. I came with many recordings of RK's music that I had made in 1968, 1970 and 1971. For some of these recordings I had the only copy. For example, his Music Academy performance (Kalyani was particularly memorable) in December of 1970. Also, 10 javelis that he recorded just for me. These recordings I gave to his son, RK Ramanathan, whose appreciation was beyond description. It was my pleasure. Two years ago Ramanathan visited me in the States and returned to India with his father's tamboura (see post #61), which I had been keeping since 1967. I was very happy to see this instrument reunited with the family.

Also, even though it came up as an "off subject," the major reason that I returned to this forum today was that I knew I had requested and received an answer to learn the name of a certain kriti that smacked of Western music: Raghu Vamsa Sudha. Thank you again, Vasanthakokilam (see post #75). I took particular interest in this piece and recently composed a church anthem (4 part choral music) based on the chittiswara from that kriti (in Western style). What goes around comes around.

I hope to see more conversation on RK, especially as his centennial is coming soon.

rajeshnat
Posts: 9906
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by rajeshnat »

Jim
Many of us donot know much about Ramnad krishnan , as he passed away in 1973. Every musician refers him as musicians musician . May be if it is okay you can also share what you shared with his son. Also if there are any photographs that you have please do share.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by rshankar »

Hi Jim! Welcome back.
Can you post your composition based on raghuvamSa sudhAmbudhi candra?

Jim
Posts: 21
Joined: 08 Nov 2009, 04:00

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by Jim »

Hello R Shankar, Here is the composition I wrote based on the chittaswara of Raghuvamsa Sudha. It is scored for chorus and woodblock percussion and is set to the text of Psalm 47, which is an uplifting text from The Bible. The soundcloud version is actually just a version from the Finale music software, not a performance, but you can get the idea.

https://soundcloud.com/search?q=jim%20McConaughy

narayara000
Posts: 308
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 06:59

Re:

Post by narayara000 »

Jim wrote: 10 Jan 2010, 03:54 Just to get things rolling again... Here's a story from 1968.

I learned Telisi Rama Chintanato from Krishnan with the chittiswara: r-gmrsnp-prsr-gm|r--p-mrg|mpdps---|| etc. A friend taught me the other chittaswara (r--rgmrgmp- etc.), which is the more common one I believe, and I wrote it down in my music notebook. When I showed off my knowledge of the new chittaswara to Krishnan at my next lesson he made a face and told me it was no good -- went out of the raga. I still have the notebook and the huge "X" that he wrote through that chittaswara. I always wondered, was this RK just asserting a preference or is there a genuine disagreement about the appropriateness of two Poorna Chandriga chittaswaras?
Hello, can you please post Ramnad Krishnan's chittaswaram in full


rajeshnat
Posts: 9906
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by rajeshnat »

What can one say about shri Ramnad krishnan we are about to celebrate his centenary. The finesse of GNB brigas tempered with veena dhanammal sensitivity .I only started to hear RK after the internet forums . I cannot take away from my life his RTP sahana, shree ranjani (bhuvini dAsudE) , kalyana rAmA (hamsanadam)and akshayalingo (sankarabharanam) . The list is endless heard many of the recordings , sad that he was snatched when he was 54 years in 1973.

There is one concert tagged of Ramnad krishnan with Lakshmi Narayanan (Violin) and Trichy Sankaran Sir(Is that really Trichy Sankaran can some one like semmu and mahavishnu confirm if mrudangist is sankaran sir , he appears slightly slower than the usual sankaran sir).

Googling Lakshmi Narayanan it appears there is a violinist C Lakshmi Narayanan or is that V Lakshminarayanan(dad of trio L Subramaniam , L Shankar and L Vaidyanathan). Can some one confirm the right violinist??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taZzQMQ6Jko

Song list of the above concert with lot of rare patnam compositions which was his speciality

1. rare KAnadA varnam - what is the opening line did not get it
2. nijamArmalunu (S) - umabharanam -T
3. enta nerchina saphala - saveri - Patnam

4. kArubAru (R) - mukhari - T
5. shree venkatesa - phalamanjari - Patnam
6. amma rAvammA (R N S) - kalyani - T

7. shree mAthrubhootam - kannada - T
8. lavanya rAma - poornashadjam -T
9. tulasamma - devagAndhari - T

10. varumulOsagi (R S T) - keeravani - Patnam
11. kamas thukkada
12. smara sundarAnguni - pharaz - dharmapuri subbarayar

13. rama rama -bhairavi -??
14. Hamsanaadam thukkada
15. govardhana giridhAra govinda - darbAri kAnada - NT
16. pavamAna

A great mahavidwan who balances the intellect and emotive quotient.

kvchellappa
Posts: 3596
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by kvchellappa »

A brilliant talk by TMK on Ramnad Krishnan's music (in manipravalam):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4e2llnNmds

ranjanimalavi
Posts: 343
Joined: 17 Feb 2007, 06:15

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by ranjanimalavi »

Varnam in the above post

http://www.karnatik.com/c3018.shtml

Raman

semmu86
Posts: 960
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:39

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by semmu86 »

rajeshnat wrote: 09 Sep 2017, 07:25 There is one concert tagged of Ramnad krishnan with Lakshmi Narayanan (Violin) and Trichy Sankaran Sir(Is that really Trichy Sankaran
I just listened to the final few minutes of the thani avarthanam. It is UKS Sir. Its a classic thanjAvur school mOhrA kOrvai.

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by shankarank »

kvchellappa wrote: 21 Sep 2017, 17:16 A brilliant talk by TMK on Ramnad Krishnan's music (in manipravalam):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4e2llnNmds
In spite of TMK's views on how Ramnad demolished the Male/Female domain seperation in terms of musical expression - the clip played at the beginning says it all - even with that ravais and brighas the majesty ( should majesty be only for males?) of the rendition stands out as they ( him and the Mridangist) descend to samam!

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by Nick H »

should majesty be only for males
Where I come from, during my lifetime, it was always Hers


:lol:

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by shankarank »

True. Mine was a rhetorical ask anyways :) In terms of royalty there have been a few India and Europe old times!

varsha
Posts: 1978
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by varsha »

What can one say about shri Ramnad krishnan we are about to celebrate his centenary.
https://archive.org/details/nnenyako
celebrating ... by listening to his disciples
nAgmani srinAth -
and old favourite track here

varsha
Posts: 1978
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by varsha »


vijay.siddharth
Posts: 358
Joined: 14 May 2017, 13:08

Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by vijay.siddharth »

In recent times, I have been listening to a lot of recordings by Ramnad Krishnan sir, since pretty much everyone in Carnatic music circles have been going gaga over him and how they have tried but failed to imitate his unique style of singing. But, I find that, with the exception of his handling of ragams like Sahana and Shankarabharanam, I can learn more listening to a Madurai Somu sir or a TS Kalyanaraman sir or an MLV amma rather than Ramnad Krishnan sir. So, what does make Ramnad Krishnan sir's music so fantastic or hair raising more than that of a Madurai Somu sir (my personal favourite), Kalyanaraman sir or MLV amma?

kvchellappa
Posts: 3596
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by kvchellappa »

This is his centenary year. He was a musician's musician as some jambavan has said. He followed Dhanammal school, that is considered the hallmark of CM. Sometimes, one has to cultivate the ears for a particular musician, as for CM itself. There is a tendency to celebrate the past even if there are now equally competent musicians.
That is a potpourri of thoughts before sensible ones appear.

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by arasi »

All potpourri ingredients sound relevant to me!
Vazhi, most of all?

hnbhagavan
Posts: 1655
Joined: 21 Jun 2008, 22:06

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by hnbhagavan »

There are many who listen to only Balamurali,Unnikrishnan,MSS .It is how your ears are trained.

Sivaramakrishnan
Posts: 1582
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 08:29

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

Ramnad Krishnan's music is scholarly, refined and devoid of noise. That's all.

K Nagarajan
Posts: 138
Joined: 09 Jul 2015, 22:19

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by K Nagarajan »

TM Krishna speaks of the uniqueness of Ramnad Krishnan's music.
The link is given in the following page.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=626&start=125


The talk by Sri Spenser Venugopal, Vidhushi Ritha Rajan, TM Krishna and and a documentary on the life and contributions of Sri Ramnad Krishnan
in the function - commencement of the year long centenary celebration is at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boncCXKfPxY
and the speech by Sri Venugopal helps us know about the greatness of Sri Ramnad Krishnan.

yours_truly
Posts: 17
Joined: 31 Mar 2008, 10:18

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by yours_truly »

Giving 2 examples from my experience that answered this question.
1. I thought Keeravaani was boring until I heard Ramnad Krishnan (a recording with T.Viswanathan on flute)
2. I thought I have heard everything in Begada until I came across a Ramnad Krishnan alapana (for Shankari Neeve).

Again, only my experience/ears!

Sivaramakrishnan
Posts: 1582
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 08:29

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

As someone had suggested, let us not wait to celebrate Centenary of Vidwans to listen to them intently. Keep on appreciating good music whenever possible.

I feel sorry to note that the music of MD Ramanathan and several greats seem to be waiting for Centenary events.

Concert (records) listening joints - as happening already-shall be encouraged.

Good that Ramnad Krishnan's music has opened up our eyes and ears.

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by shankarank »

https://youtu.be/joMwpv0Trfs?t=2167

இந்த மிருதங்கம் எத்தினி பேருக்குய்யா தாங்கும்?? எடுத்த எடுப்பிலேயே தெரியலே? பெரிய சங்கீதம்முனு! :geek: :roll: :roll: (:high-brow: , :high-brow: ) :twisted:

How many artistes can elicit that type of accompaniment? The nature of music ( that it is something great!) should be evident right at the outset!

இதெல்லாம் தபலாவுக்கும் மிருதங்கத்துக்கும் வித்தியாசம் தெரிஞ்சாத்தானே தெரியும்! First people should learn to diff. between tabla and Mridangam! :mrgreen: :lol:

yello, yello .. common , common! :lol:

narayan
Posts: 383
Joined: 05 Oct 2008, 07:43

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by narayan »

vijay.siddharth, I doubt if it is a competition and one can listen to Ramnad as well as Madurai Somu and TNS and S Kalyanaraman and everyone else. Feel free to enjoy all of them, including the differences. Much has been written about Ramnad in this as well as other forums. Quite a few musicians have been impacted by his music, I must say.
Last edited by narayan on 29 Oct 2017, 13:22, edited 1 time in total.

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by shankarank »

narayan wrote: 28 Oct 2017, 20:59 It's a free country (still!).
So it was not a free country before? so in late 1800s and early 1900s people did not enjoy different musicians and understand differences? How much freedom is required to enjoy music? How much freedom have we lost or we going to lose?

What country are we talking about?

bala747
Posts: 314
Joined: 20 Mar 2006, 12:56

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by bala747 »

I was wrong about Ramnad Krishnan too in the past, in exactly the same vein.

But hear his early concerts and he was up there as a legend. The concert posted above for instance, not many artists can sing a Varali like that, beyond a few cliched phrases (as most "musicians" these days tend to do).

And the Begada is one of a kind. Begada is not an easy raga to even attempt, but he makes it sound so effortless.

narayan
Posts: 383
Joined: 05 Oct 2008, 07:43

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by narayan »

shankarank wrote: 28 Oct 2017, 22:15
narayan wrote: 28 Oct 2017, 20:59 It's a free country (still!).
So it was not a free country before? so in late 1800s and early 1900s people did not enjoy different musicians and understand differences? How much freedom is required to enjoy music? How much freedom have we lost or we going to lose?

What country are we talking about?
Have removed the offending part. May please continue with discussion regarding Ramnad. Thanks for the alert.

varsha
Posts: 1978
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by varsha »

in recent times, I have been listening to a lot of recordings by Ramnad Krishnan sir..... But, I find that, with the exception of his handling of ragams like Sahana and Shankarabharanam
With RK it cant be lots of recordings ( a disservice to the artist - the centenary too did not change the status - leaving us to believe a cliched state of things . Over four decades Ive mustered only 32 concerts and yet ... the stats are interesting
The repertoire in these 32 concerts spreads over 175 krithis !!!
What makes him stand out for me ?
1. Over 40 of the 175 , RK has put his indelible stamp . Whenever someone sings one of these - bale balendu or govardhana giridhari , the name " RK " flashes across.We can get to this later
2.The rest of the krithis showcases his fascination for ragas first , krithi next . Many among these , he sings the proportion of a 8 mt alapana and 4 mt krithi . We can come to these too. Each of these ragas , he has handled two to four krithis with great finesse.
filigree work
3.The same krithi does not appear in the fixed slot in the concert proceedings . Same one at position 1 , 3 , 7... in different concerts
4.His is a voice that goes so smooth with just a khanjira . Most mrdangam sounds in his concerts are just softly played
5.Engages in rapid changes of pace at times with swaras - classic cases are mandari etc.
6.The opening of the concert is invariably fast paced. Even in the slow phases he has that kind of power on leash , waiting to let loose
7.In many ways he is the exact opposite of MDR to my ears.
I love them all just as they come.
Here is the first part of the less heard ones.
https://archive.org/details/RAmnAdKrishnan-1

Sivaramakrishnan
Posts: 1582
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 08:29

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

The ultimate analysis shows that it was only Ramnad Krishnan (among Vidwans) who could sing closest to the Dhanammal Bani (more specifically T Brinda).

The centenary events in Chennai certainly helped rasikas to appreciate the depth and nuances of the music of RK. The sort of 'confession' echoed by every artist was that he/she has been attempting to 'sing like RK' but could never succeed!

vilomachapu
Posts: 81
Joined: 06 Jan 2016, 17:20

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by vilomachapu »

The ultimate analysis shows that it was only Ramnad Krishnan (among Vidwans) who could sing closest to the Dhanammal Bani (more specifically T Brinda).
Tell me which song, which raga RK has sung like Brinda. RK's style is more akin to GNB, not Dhanammal style. He did not sing many Dikshitar or SS songs. Also he did not sing padams. His music had more of 'alakshyam', the don't care type. It had nothing to do with Dhanammal style though he might have learnt from the family. RK's music has more of hype than substancdde. It was people like Spencer Venugopal, Sanjay Subramanian, TMK etc who blew RK's music out of proportion.

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by MaheshS »

Lets do a test and see? I've picked Dikshitar's master piece in Shankarabaranam, Akshayalinga Vibho.

Brinda & Muktha

Ramnad Krishnan

Sivaramakrishnan
Posts: 1582
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 08:29

Re: Why Ramnad Krishnan sir?

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

vilomachapu,
Have not you heard Modi jese (Khamas javali) from RK?
Aaalaapana of Sahana? or Kannada?

No alakshya comments please!

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by MaheshS »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_r-CPFqXz0&t=137m50s => Sri Mushnam uses RK as an example.

Jim
Posts: 21
Joined: 08 Nov 2009, 04:00

Re: Re:

Post by Jim »

narayara000 wrote: 07 Sep 2017, 12:41
Jim wrote: 10 Jan 2010, 03:54 Just to get things rolling again... Here's a story from 1968.

I learned Telisi Rama Chintanato from Krishnan with the chittiswara: r-gmrsnp-prsr-gm|r--p-mrg|mpdps---|| etc. A friend taught me the other chittaswara (r--rgmrgmp- etc.), which is the more common one I believe, and I wrote it down in my music notebook. When I showed off my knowledge of the new chittaswara to Krishnan at my next lesson he made a face and told me it was no good -- went out of the raga. I still have the notebook and the huge "X" that he wrote through that chittaswara. I always wondered, was this RK just asserting a preference or is there a genuine disagreement about the appropriateness of two Poorna Chandriga chittaswaras?
Hello, can you please post Ramnad Krishnan's chittaswaram in full
Here is the Chittaswara I learned from Ramnad Krishnan in 1968:

Capital letters denote lower register
Bold letters denote upper register

r - g m r s N P - P r s r - g m | r - - p - m r g | m p d p s - - - || repeat
s n p r - r g m r - r s n p r - | - s - - p - r s | n p m r g m r s || repeat

shanks
Posts: 118
Joined: 25 May 2006, 22:03

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by shanks »

Interesting that I learnt this variation of chittaswaram with one minor difference for the kriti 'palukavEmi nA daivama' !!

I vaguely recollect listening this combo in some concerts too.

narayara000
Posts: 308
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 06:59

Re: Re:

Post by narayara000 »

Jim wrote: 08 Nov 2017, 19:39

Here is the Chittaswara I learned from Ramnad Krishnan in 1968:

Capital letters denote lower register
Bold letters denote upper register

r - g m r s N P - P r s r - g m | r - - p - m r g | m p d p s - - - || repeat
s n p r - r g m r - r s n p r - | - s - - p - r s | n p m r g m r s || repeat
Ya this chittaswaram does seem to bring out more of the "poornachandrika flavor" than the standard chittaswaram
Last edited by narayara000 on 08 Nov 2017, 23:30, edited 1 time in total.

narayara000
Posts: 308
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 06:59

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by narayara000 »

shanks wrote: 08 Nov 2017, 22:59 Interesting that I learnt this variation of chittaswaram with one minor difference for the kriti 'palukavEmi nA daivama' !!
It makes sense because both are Adi thala krithis that start at samam, and first note is "Ri"

raviscn
Posts: 9
Joined: 06 Oct 2020, 16:05

Re: Ramnad Krishnan

Post by raviscn »

there is a much celebrated music academy 1957 concert of Ramnad Krishnan. its mentioned in below article
https://musicacademymadras.in/musicacad ... 018-50.pdf

Do any one have a digital copy of that concert? Thanks in advance

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