Brilliant artists not fully recognized by the public&sabhas

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 15 Mar 2009, 16:52

As the title suggests, the following musicians could not occupy topmost positions. though they are(were) excellent performers Their positoin is comparable to players chosen for a cricket tour but could not play even a single match, as no player could be dropped from a winning combination.
The list is as follows
Sattur Subramanian, Thanjavoor Lakshmi Narayana bhagavathar, Salem G Desikan, Salem.D.Chellam iyengar, Madurai N Krishnan, Ayiloor Krishnan, VaigalGnana skandan, Ramnad Krishnan, Chengalpattu Ranganathan, Palakkadu Rama bhagavathar, Ramnad C S Sankarasivan, A.Sundaresan, Kalakkad Ramanarayanan and so on. Probably during their period giants like GNB, MMI, SSI, ARIYAKKUDI , MAHARAJAPURAM, CHEMBAI, MUSIRI, CHITTOOR SUBRAMNIA PILLAI, KVN were at their peak.
gobilalitha
exciuse me, I do not have any idea about carnatic music vidwans from other states.

balusatya · Post by **balusatya** » 15 Mar 2009, 19:18

Madurai Somu,Tanjore Kalyanaraman,Namachivayam.......

kaapi · Post by **kaapi** » 15 Mar 2009, 20:32

Why a particular musician did not become a hit with the audience cannot be easily fathomed.

Balusatya, I am surprised that you have included Somu in this list. By any yardstick, Somu was a successful musician. He was accompanied by top notch artists and was a regular performer at city sabhas. When he was at his peak he was probably the most popular artist in the moffusil towns of Tamil Nadu.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 15 Mar 2009, 21:16

Trivandrum R Venkataraman,

until recently, Kalpakam Swaminathan. Chengulpet also is called a few times these days, after he got his Sangeeta Kala Acharya.

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 15 Mar 2009, 22:25

yet another senseless discussion. No offence meant.
Can anyone say who was the top most musicians from amongst the successful musicians names (SSI, GNB, Musiri...). If top most is the criteria, then there can be only ONE and rest becomes less suceessful than the TOPMOST musician. It is very difficult to rate.
All the musicians mentioned Sathur, Ayyalur krishnan etc were all accomplished musicians.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Mar 2009, 22:32

musicfan, you are adding to the 'senseless' discussion in a sensible way..

The last point you make is the main point and premise of this thread.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 16 Mar 2009, 04:22

gobilalitha wrote: I do not have any idea about carnatic music vidwans from other states.

There are lots of great musicians from non-Tamil Nadu states who were not that popular. Apart from a few notable exceptions (such as RK Srikantan, Neduneri Krishnamurthy), artistes who do not relocate to Chennai do not seem to 'make it big' in the world of Carnatic music.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 16 Mar 2009, 05:10

This topic has been covered a few times before...

Unrecognised musicians:
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... cians.html

108 Legends:
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... gends.html

Pearls in unknown depths
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... epths.html

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 16 Mar 2009, 07:24

Post no5. In the forum, we discuss freely many issues, just to give vent to one's feeling without hurti ng anybody. we have discussed many issues about the personal habitsof many artists(inebriated condition), not that we are acting as moral police. just because I have expressed my personal anguish, pl do not use such words as 'senseless'. Thanks , ragam-talam for the previous references. of discussions GOBILALITHA

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 16 Mar 2009, 18:48

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 04 Apr 2009, 08:18

rajeevsid · Post by **rajeevsid** » 04 Apr 2009, 14:23

great piece Kji... I felt the artist was Pantula Rama Madam... I might be wrong though.. awesome bilahari alapana...
Mods.. My earlier post got deleted for no apparent reason.. ne problems??

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 04 Apr 2009, 16:26

Pl add SV Parthasarathy to the list .GOBILALITHA

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 04 Apr 2009, 16:34

coolji, the saranga piece, is it by Nagamani Srinath? gobilalitha

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 04 Apr 2009, 19:14

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Apr 2009, 20:00

If I remember correctly, I think it is someone with Narasimhan as the last name.

rajeevsid · Post by **rajeevsid** » 04 Apr 2009, 20:31

hmmm Kji... The speculation as such continues..
rShankar: Are u referring to one Savita Narasimhan .. but revered KJi says 15 years back .. so... ?????

rajeevsid · Post by **rajeevsid** » 04 Apr 2009, 21:00

Kji.. My dad says Srirangam Gopalaratnam ... and I get an inkling he is right.. will wait for Kji's confirmation!!!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 04 Apr 2009, 22:04

gmohan · Post by **gmohan** » 04 Apr 2009, 23:04

Shakuntala Narasimhan

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Apr 2009, 23:52

Coolkarni
You have nicely side-tracked taking away the heat from the discussions. Now you should contest for the next PM of India

With your business acumen you may even solve the 'artificial' financial crisis!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Apr 2009, 04:04

Kji,

What a fabulous set of clues!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Apr 2009, 06:31

gmohan · Post by **gmohan** » 05 Apr 2009, 08:20

I could be a bit off in terms of the year but clearly recollect all of us at home sitting down to listen to a fantastic AIR concert of Shakunthala Narasimhan, between 1985 and 1990 I would think. I think she was also the Editor of Femina Magazine.
When I heard this clip I thought it could be SN but it would have been pure guess, no way I could connect the voice to what i heard more than 20 years back.

T.T.SRINIVASAN · Post by **T.T.SRINIVASAN** » 02 May 2009, 16:56

Why a particular musician did not become a hit with the audience ... lack of Rama anugraham. Fame and vidwat do not go together for many artists.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 07 May 2009, 04:32

Although I had heard of Shakuntala Narasimhan, and read her articles, this was the first time I heard her!

sivachinta1965 · Post by **sivachinta1965** » 12 May 2009, 15:39

dear Rasikas

Read, 'Musings of a Musician' by Ranga Ramanuja Iyengar, you will get some of the old musicians in this category

Sivaprasad

vallaki · Post by **vallaki** » 04 Jul 2009, 00:34

srinivasrgvn wrote:Kalpakam Swaminathan is truly a musical genius. But I feel that she has not received/receiving the recognition she deserves. A recent honor in Cleveland. Is that really enough?I really pity her. I mean, she is so old but she still performs!! That's quite astonishing. People should see her dedication and devotion towards carnatic music even at this age.I think Almost all vainikas don't receive as much recognition and fame as vocalists! Veena is a very tough instrument to play. But nobody understands. This is my personal opinion, so no offense meant.

I agree wholeheartedly about your opinion about the veena. One unique quality of the veena is that if the vainika were to sing along,after a point, you wll hear only two human voices.. This has been my observation on numerous occasions. Of all instruments, in my opinion, the veena stands out divine,and most revered. (IMO Anyways- no offence intended to other instrumentalists)

vmr · Post by **vmr** » 14 Oct 2009, 18:24

To add to the list of Musicians who could not make it big in the concert platform :

Srivanjiyam Mani Iyer - ( Dis of MMI)

Nellai TV Krishnamurthy

BRC Iyengar of Hyderabad who had learnt from Ariyakudi. He has contributed regularly to The Hindu by reviewing concerts in Hyderabad.

Mridangists like :

Nagercoil Ganesa iyer - who has accompanied the likes of SSI,GNB etc during 40s & 50s

Trichy Malaiyappa Iyer (Father of Kanadukathan Rajaraman ) - who was a student of Tanj Vidhyanatha iyer. Probably trained many students in & around Trichy.

Mylatur Ramachandran - who has accompanied Alathur Bros in many AIR trichy recordings . These recordings are occasionally aired over the Trichy Radio.

Violinist

Abiramasundari - who had accompanied Brinda-Muktha duo & NCV etc and also MSS for some period in 40s & 50s. Some of the concert schedules of Music Adademy has her name listed in the accompaniments for these artists.

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 14 Oct 2009, 19:26

Abhiramasundari succumbed at an early age to consumption, and hence doesn't really fit into this category.

sivachinta1965 · Post by **sivachinta1965** » 17 Oct 2009, 16:26

dear Keerthiji

The ladder mentioned in the post : Is this external or Internal???

One Brilliant musician is not able to climb up 1) He is not capable as he consumes lot

2) He/she is not allowed to step on to the ladder!

Sivaprasad

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 18 Oct 2009, 23:14

ayyayo! sivachinta, in one fell swoop you trasported us from the vidwan-vidushi thread to the hilarity thread.
Here, i mean tuberculosis when I say consumption. not eating a lot!!

sivachinta1965 · Post by **sivachinta1965** » 04 Nov 2009, 09:54

dear "Keer"thiji

I thought, like NCV!. But sorry for the mix-up!. I am a simple "Rasika" not a pathologist.

Siva

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 09 Nov 2009, 23:46

Forumites; As usual I am late for the party-I like the thread and so here are my views:

If certain artistes of merit have not got the recognition they deserved one has to examine it from a historical as well as talent perspective.My own view is that sometimes one can be unlucky or lucky to be born in a particular generation. To large extent,the success of the SSI/GNB/MMI/ALATHUR BRos in their generation was because most of the stalwarts of the previous era --with the exception of Ariyakudi--namely Musiri,Maharajapuram ,Chittoor had pretty much faded and there was a "vacuum" which was fully capitalised by the above-mentioned gang!! Ofcourse Chembai was still a force in the fifties and sixties and demanded Top remuneration(even above his seniors like Ariyakudi-I know this for a fact-in Shanmukhananda sabha in Bombay in the Fifties, whenever they tried to get Chembai the ceiling was way below Rs.1000 and Chembai's non-negotiable minimum was Rs.1000--at that time Ariyakudi was the top and at his best years never got more than Rs.750 in Bombay so that they could not afford to host Chembai--subsequently there was another Sabha Bharathiya Fine Arts which arranged his concert on his terms,but then the Sabha could not afford to have as many concerts round the year as Shanmukhananda. Subsequently Shanmukhananda's finances improved and Chembai performed there. Sorry for the digression. My point is that the SSI et al "gang" had established themselves at the "gate" as well that sabhas outside Chennai ran no risks in giving them chances.

The TKRanagachari/VVSadagopan.Sattur,Ramnad krishnan were not too far behind the seniors in age(an unlucky event over which they had no control) and naturally could get only "spillovers" from the orgs outside Chennai. In fact when my father was Secretary of Shanmukhanada in Bombay, he arranged Sattur with MC(Violin) for the first time in Bombay--the concert from a "gate" collection was not a success and MC overshadowed Sattur who could not get the traction against the "gang"(SSI/GNB et al).Likewise VVS for his concert in Shanmukhananda was accompanied by Lalgudi being introduced to the Bombay audience for the first time--now it was Lalgudi's turn to "steal" the show and VVS tried to "emulate" Ariyakudi(he tried to sing like Ariyakudi as well!!) and failed. So while it certainly boosted two young accompanists .Similarly TkRangachari,Mayavaram Rajam were given chances in Bombay but failed to get traction against the "gang". Besides out of Chennai there were not many Sabhas especially in cities like Bombay,Calcutta Delhi etc--in the late forties and early fifties.Add to this the female trio of MSS/DKP/MLV who were popular both at the "gate" as well as Vidwat--these effectively shut out the TKR/Sattur/ and others of their generation--some like TMT(junior to the above gang) did not get much opportunities because their Gurus were still in the forefront.Despite this TMT was given a chance in Bombay in 1950,but the violin accompaniment--a grandson of Tirukkodikaval Krishna Iyer and the mridangam accompaniment Mylattoor ramachandran(both of the accompanists came with very high recomendations) played lack-lustredly(!!!) and the experiment in ushering the next generation of musicians was not a success(mind you the SSI "gang" was at the top and it would have taken tremendous talent to succeed and not being relatively young enough,(for the seniors to "pass"!!),these artistes suffered. But the fact is that neither in Chennai or Mofussil towns,the TKR/Sattur Gang created the "buzz" which is propelling many musicians of lesser talent to success nowadays.. Also some of these artistes did not have the "lineage" (musical) which the seniors had.

For the viloinists like TNK/Lalgudi/MSG/MC,the previous senior "trio" Rajamanikkam Pillai/Papa/Chowdiah,were literally one generation ahead and were slowly fading from the stage.Although their relative youth and high talent helped them they were lucky that they "stepped in" when there would have been a void. This was sheer luck.But their talent and encouragement by the musicians(SSI for TNK.GNB,MMI ,Alathur for Lalgudi/MSG/MC) also helped. THis aspect is very important for accompanists.
Unless I am mistaken unlike the second string of musicians following the SSI gang,there were not many younger accompanists so talented and yet eclipsed by the likes of the TNK/Lalgudi et al.
My point is that both talent as well as "timing"(start of institutions outside Chennai,the relative ages of the second string musicians) are critical factors in the career trajectory of some of the musicians.

Madurai Somu although he suffered in the timing factor, in my opinion had a number of concert opportunities and had the advantage of the lineage(Naina Pillai-Chittoor) behind him.

Ramnad krishnan got traction(in my opinion) only after he "switched" allegiance to the Dhanam School and despite being not too far behind (in age ) from the SSI gang,managed to get concert opportunities but "cut short" by illness and death.

In my opinion it is the Andhra Musicians(with the exception of BMK) who did not get the recognition they deserved and when they did it was belated--I mean the Dr.Pinakapani School-Voleti,Nedunuri .Anybody who has listened to the AIR stations Vijayawada/Hyderabad popularise the teaching of CM music would agree with me that at the "grass roots" stage there was some awesome talent being nurtured but denied opportunities thro sheer apathy and indiference.

Likewise the Kerala artistes may have been handicapped for lack of visibility although what saved them from oblivion was the Royal Patronage(the Swathi Thirunal Academy etc etc).hereagain the talent at the grass roots stage was phenomenal

The Karnataka artistes(my opinion!!) however did have slightly better opportunities partly because of their relative proximity to Chennai.I am not aware of any artistes of outstanding merit from Karnataka lacking recognition(perhaps belatedly as in the case of R.K.Srikantan).

Some artistes like TK Govinda Rao were aided by the lineage aspect(Musiri) and thro their phenomenal work in teaching and research gained recognition if not the kind of concert opportunities they deserved.

KVN got tremendous boost from Palghat Mani Iyer and sustained his opportunities thro his talent and hard work. My theory is that in the early stages if PMI had not helped him he might have suffered the same way as TKR or Sattur.

Lastly the present day younger musicians like TMK,Sanjay,Ravi Kiran,Sudha,Jayashri,Sowmya,Nithyashree-besides being endowed with awesome talent are also blessed with several opportunities to perform both in India and abroad.Today it is fair to say that if some one has talent --- there are several opportunities thro Institutions like Raga Sudha ,Hamsadhwani ,Cleveland Aradhana and the "media" with lots of critics attuned to younger talent and finding multiple outlets to 'publicise" these artistes--he/she will have no problem at an young age to establish their credentials. However their tenure may be shortlived because of the talent that is at their heels!!

Sorry for the"rambling" post!!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 10 Nov 2009, 00:19

Likewise the Kerala artistes may have been handicapped for lack of visibility although what saved them from oblivion was the Royal Patronage(the Swathi Thirunal Academy etc etc).hereagain the talent at the grass roots stage was phenomenal

Even with that Patronage, they still are struggling to penetrate other countries market because of preconceived notion that Kerala people are not competent to sing CM, even if they are brahmins. In fact in one of the conversations with a person in Nashville, I understand that promoters of CM in Nashville Temple do not like the idea of Kerala bread singers.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 10 Nov 2009, 09:11

I will be happy to go on RECORD as a Tamilian who grew up in Chennai& lived there for twenty five years & involved with CM for over 50 years that KERALA probably has the most KNOWLEDGEABLE audiences who set a higher standard & have a BETTER understanding of not just carnatic music but the artists as a consequence are technically better than most in Chennai. Because of trinity using TELUGU OBVIOUSLY ANDHRA ARTISTS are the MOST COMPLETE. Starting with Dr.Pinakapani- still teaching at 95!- & bmk, voletti,nedanuri & current promising artists they are fantastic! The Karavadi School of Nadaswaram to which SHEIKH Chinna Moulana & his grand sons S.Kasim & S.Babu belong is a school 300years old! & continuous at that. We shd. thank LGJ who singlehandedly brought Voletti & Nedanuri to the fore. The RUDRAPATNAM SCHOOL to which R.K.Venkatarama Sastry, R.K.Srikantan & R.K.Sriramkumar belong(tho' he is also a DKJ Disciple) belong is so illustrious not to mention the GIANT Mysore T.Chowdiah & Doreswamy Iyengar .
Unfortunately Chennai occupies the Prime SPOT in this area due to the UNIQUE APPROACH & STRENGTH OF THE SABHAS. IN THE WEST they say if you make it in NEW YORK YOU HAVE MADE IT! Similarly Chennai(Madras) has captured a similar position.......I am of the opinion that the CONCERTS OUTSIDE OF MAJOR CHENNAI SABHAS are artistically BETTER. Many artists have told me so ......In my opinion MARKETING IS THE DECIDER UNFORTUNATELY! VKV

Sreeni Rajarao · Post by **Sreeni Rajarao** » 10 Nov 2009, 17:04

In post # 34, Sri. Ramasubramaniam, wrote:
I am not aware of any artistes of outstanding merit from Karnataka lacking recognition(perhaps belatedly as in the case of R.K.Srikantan).

I would like to say that
I am aware of many artistes of outstanding merit from Karnataka lacking recognition, from the early 1900s to the present day.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 11 Nov 2009, 01:49

Instead of stating just OBVIOUS FACTS I request Sreeni Rajarao to start a SEPARATE section to discuss the various PROMISING ARTISTS today from ANDHRA, KARNATAKA & KERALA who show promise & should be ENCOURAGED. I can assure EVERYONE the organising committee of CLEVELAND FESTIVAL is most interested in presenting artists from ENTIRE SOUTH INDIA . I would do it right away & am not doing it because I AM IGNORANT IN THIS AREA & I LIVE IN USA. VKV

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 11 Nov 2009, 01:58

To Sreeni Raja rao's point:
I did not mean to imply that Karnataka artistes did not suffer from lack of exposure!! What I was alluding to and perhaps should have been more forthright in my post was that Karnataka had the Maharajah of Mysore(preIndependence days) who himself was very culturally sophisticated and visionary and as such despite the lack of institutions etc ,artistes of talent could find some patronage and support which artistes from say Andhra never enjoyed.
Also being a Tamilian myself and been in and around the Madras Sabhas(as VKV), and having been associated thro my father with the Shanmukhananda Sabha in Bombay I have found that despite the best efforts of support some artistes do not make it --luck of the draw-- at the same time one can find numerous instances where an individual patron of moderate means(example given in the Aruna Sairam Post in the Vidwan/Vidushi topic) helped sustain an artiste of enormous talent(Thanjavur Sankara Iyer).

Re; the Karnataka scene,one should not forget that the revival and resuscitation of Purandara Dasa krithis to a large extent was spearheaded by MLV's mother Lalithangi and her father Aiyya vaiyar and popularised heavily. This was pointed out by the Late Musicologist and "doyen amongst Musicologists of his time I might add) Ranga Ramanuja Iyengar in one of his books lamenting that it took the twentieth century artiste like Lalithangi to "unearth: the gems of Purandaradasa which we are all enjoying today. My point is that
where Music is concerned-although Chennai happens to dominate the scene as New York does in Financial maters--as VKV pointed out --by and large the fostering and care and feeding of Music has transgressed narrow boundaries of language--Overall I believe the situation is much better today thanks to the broad listenership and the prevalence of cultural media(variety) that it is very difficult to subvert talent today even if one Institution like MA or Shanmukhananda Sabha is indifferent to promoting talent. There will be rasikas and institutions that will rectify the imbalance.

Lastly let us not forget we the audience have a role to play. If we find talent that has not gotten the opportunity we think it deserves it behoves all of us to "champion" the cause.
This forum is an excellent place to start promoting without being accused of "huckstering"!!!

sivachinta1965 · Post by **sivachinta1965** » 12 Nov 2009, 14:33

dear RMKji

What I read was GNB was the first CM to get 4 digit remunaration. How come Chembai?

Siva

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 12 Nov 2009, 17:33

Dear Sivachinta: I know for a fact that in Shanmukhananda sabha in Bombay(where my father was Secretary,I used to file away his correspondence with the artistes!) Chembai was the first to get Rs.1000.Before that Ariyakud was the top earner(I think about Rs.850--remember this was in the early fifties--long before the Hall came up and attendance improved and the sabha's funds improved as well!!). GNB--if my memory serves me right never got more money than Ariyakudi or Chembai- I think it was around Rs. 750. Madurai Mani Iyer was slightly a tad above GNB(because his gate collections in addition to the membership fees were always higher than any of the Male musicians-possibly next only to MSS).
The accompaniments--especially the young "studs" in those times--the TNK,LGJ etc got hardly Rs.400 or Rs.450 with the older violinists like Papa Sir,Chowdiah Sir,Rajamanikkam Pillai getting around Rs. 650 or Rs. 700.Same with Palghat Mani Iyer with Palani a close second to PMI.

But the most beautiful part about the remuneration business amongst those musicians of yesteryears was that there was no haggling or asking/reminding about opportunities--directly or indirectly-mind you the remuneration in the Chennai Sabhas was miniscule so that one concert in Bombay/Delhi or calcutta--despite the travel hassles-- was still worth much more to them not to speak of the fans' recognition etc. All those musicians I have referred to were impeccable in their Gauravam.

There was a letter in my father's archives from Palghat mani Iyer re; a particular date to accompany MMI or GNB--I do not recall. The date was not suitable to him and he replied accordingly in two lines--absolutely no suggestion from him re; suitability for the following weekend(he was free my father subsequently learned!!)--although even the main musician may have consented to a shift in the date to suit PMI!!(Note: some artistes indirectly suggested alternate dates not to lose an opportunity but even this was done discreetly).

Oh those were the days!! More on their attitudes towards money and audiences etc perhaps in a separate post!!

girish_a · Post by **girish_a** » 12 Nov 2009, 19:00

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote: I know this for a fact-in Shanmukhananda sabha in Bombay in the Fifties, whenever they tried to get Chembai the ceiling was way below Rs.1000 and Chembai's non-negotiable minimum was Rs.1000

Lest anyone's regard of Chembai be diminished upon reading this, allow me to point you to this article which beautifully describes Chembai's last day:

http://rasikas.org/chembai/chembailastday.html

And this paragraph in particular:

Bhagavatar used to help many girls to get married, during the last years of his life, by providing dowry, in part, and once or twice in full. A month earlier, when we were in Madras, he had said: "Do you know how much I earned from singing this month? Twenty thousand rupees! Perhaps you think I put it in my bank. No. I spent 500 rupees here in my madhom. Four or five thousand, I gave away to get a couple of poor girls married. The entire balance was given to Guruvayurappan, [the deity of the temple in Guruvayur). I was very greedy for money once. Now the Lord has taken away that greed from my heart."

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 12 Nov 2009, 22:02

Forumites: Lest my remark about Chembai's expectation on remuneration be interpreted wrongly, my intent was to point out what a principled man Chembai was--it was due to the Sabha's inability to entertain that level of remuneration AT THAT TIME! NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SABHA'S EVALUATION OF HIS WORTH. REMEMBER CHEMBAI WAS NEARING SIXTY(IN THE TIME FRAME I WAS TALKING ABOUT) AND NATURALLY BY VIRTUE OF SENIORITY AND ACHIEVEMENT DESERVED WHATEVER AMOUNT HE THOUGHT WAS APPROPRIATE.

I STAND SECOND TO NONE IN MY ADMIRATION OF CHEMBAI AS A MUSICIAN,PHILANTHROPIST,ENCOURAGEMENT OF BUDDING TALENT.--A MAN WITH SUDDHA HRIDAYAM

PALGHAT MANI IYER,TVG ON THE MRIDANGAM,VVS(VIOLIN)--OWE A LOT TO CHEMBAI'S PATRONAGE WHEN THEIR CAREERS JUST STARTED. VERY FEW VIDWANS OF HIS TIME DARED TO HAVE NEW UNTESTED ACCOMPANIMENTS AS CHEMBAI DID--SO CONFIDENT HE WAS NOT ONLY ABOUT HIMSELF AND HIS ABILITY TO PERFORM AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL WITHOUT "BIG" ACCOMPANIMENTS HE HAD EQUAL CONFIDENCE IN THE YOUNG STALWARTS AS WELL.

ONE OF THE EARLIEST GRAMOPHONE RECORDS OF HIS --AMBA NATHU PAI IN THODI (MID-1930'S) SHOULD BE LISTENED TO BY ALL ASPIRING MUSICIANS OF TODAY-THE BRISKNESS(MEL KALAM SWARAMS).THIS RECORD IS ALSO NOTABLE FOR THE ACCOMPANIMENTS-CHOWDIAH-PALGHAT MANI IYER--DHAKSHINAMURTHY PILLAI-THE THANI IS SHORT AND CRISP--MODERN DAY MRIDANGISTS AND KANJIRA ARTISTS COULD USE THE RESTRAINT SHOWN IN THE "THANI".

CHEMBAI'S RAGHUVARA RECORD IS A CLASSIC IN KALAPRAMANAM IN MY OPINION.

I HOPE THIS CLEARS THE MISPERCEPTION MY EARLIER POST MAY HAVE CAUSED.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 14 Nov 2009, 03:42

Chembai it seems liked to compare himself with the topmost performers of the times (as he started out his career in competition with Nayana Pillai's laya jnana). This he seemed to continue with Ariyakudi & Musiri in later days, although not apparently as much with MVI.

The situation where he was once travelling (to Tiruvaiyaru Thyagaraja Aradhana??) together with Ariyakudi where he asked Ariyakudi point blank who was the elder (in music, not in age) between them, and Ariyakudi conceding it was Chembai, comes to mind.

I think this competitive spirit among musicians (Chembai vs Ariyakudi, Palghat Mani vs Dakshinamoorthy Pillai and later Palani, GNB vs SSI, etc) brought out the best music among them, although this competition was strictly on the musical area only and each had great respect for the others personally.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 14 Nov 2009, 04:32

srkris: AMEN!!!

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 15 Nov 2009, 01:08

Perhaps we can continue with brilliant musicians who could not climb the ladder.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 15 Nov 2009, 04:52

My "take" on this-after having discussed the subject over the years with the Vidwans of yesteryear to the current stalwarts(i.e.Sanjay):
Talent does rise to the top.Institutions do not have biases.They need Rasika support.If they keep patronising subpar musicians on the basis of nepotism the Institution cannot survive.True the 50's and 60's besides being dominated by the senior musicians of those times and dearth of sufficient institutions economically viable ,may have denied the Sathurs,Rangacharys et al to enjoy the patronage. But truth be told and younger forumites must pardon me if I say that having heard most of them,there must have been something lacking/wanting from the rasikas' perspective that did not make those musicians popular.
There is only so much Institutions can do although I have seen in my times in the 50's and 60's Institutions trying experiments which would have raised eyebrows given their financial status at that time Example:

In the Mid-Fifties,when Music Academy hall was still in the conceptual stage and when the series was being held in the Pandal in P.S.High School Mylapore, Some of the younger vidwans of those days(KVN/MDR/RK/RKS) all got the 3P.M. slot(these concerts were FREE) because both the 5:30 P.M. and the 9 P.M. slots were taken up by the biggies.Despite being free they did not attract crowds. So MA did an experiment one year when they had big name accompaniments for each of the younger vidwans cited--like RK getting TNK/Palani,KVN getting TNK/PMI,MDR getting Papa etc etc--you get the picture(forumites may go thru MA's past souvenirs of those times to find out how these combinations were arrived at)----this left the biggies getting the second-tier of accompaniments-in those days(this did not deter attendance because of their "drawing" power. The musicians did not have a tight schedule as today--because there were only two other institutions in Chennai besides MA that held festivals in December--namely Indian Fine Arts (Gokhale hall in Armenian Street- and Tamil Isai sangam in Raja Annamalai Hall near the High Court)-far from the "madding crowds of Mylapore--by the way these institutions did not go big on young artistes either because of the "gate" factor.

These (MA) 3 P.M. concerts were no doubt well attended but somehow the "breakthrough" did not come despite these efforts--but hats off to those artists they "broke" the mold thro sheer persistence on their part. My point is that if the artist has outstanding talent that people want to hear the "buzz" will make them popular.

We ought not to let our "provincial biases" color our thinking. I do not want to go thru the whole list of Musicians which various forumites have posted,and comment WHY they did not make it thro. I sincerely believe that given the choices that people had and the restricted institutions, and the uniform dominance of the SSI/GNB/MMI/MSS/DKP/ "gang". it would have required extraordinary talent on the part of anybody to penetrate the "Chakra Viyuham" Just to touch on some of them--Chingleput Renganathan(nicknamed Kutti Paya in the fifties) was a master in kanakku Pallavi but could not carry a concert despite some exposure. Gratifying that his talent is being recognized NOW--in his eighties and is being honored by Institutions, Manakkal Rangarajan likewise got opportunities but sheer brigas at lightning speed alone could not make him sought after. But he is being recognized and honored-one of the advantages of "outliving your peers" --as my father used to say whenever he was being honored for his Music reviews etc in Chennai-- and people asked him about the awards!!!!--he lived till 93!!!.

TODAY the scene is different--It is impossible to keep a person with talent down--so many instituions,so many musiclovers with political/economic clout,the media,the internet and the sheer increase in the population base--all factors that are conducive to fostering talent. So in a sense the lament may be irrelevant in today's context!!.

gavats · Post by **gavats** » 16 Nov 2009, 05:10

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:TODAY the scene is different--It is impossible to keep a person with talent down--so many instituions,so many musiclovers with political/economic clout,the media,the internet and the sheer increase in the population base--all factors that are conducive to fostering talent. So in a sense the lament may be irrelevant in today's context!!.

well said..there are of-course many organisations these days to support the upcoming...so this may not be relevant in today's world....

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:But truth be told and younger forumites must pardon me if I say that having heard most of them,there must have been something lacking/wanting from the rasikas' perspective that did not make those musicians popular.

But, I dont agree to this.. to me, every Vidwan/Vidushi is talented...Sathurs ,Rangacharys et all were of-course equally talented, but never had the "circumstantial luck" ..To me "becoming famous" is something that happens to a person beyond that person's control...not becoming famous / popular is defy destiny

sivachinta1965 · Post by **sivachinta1965** » 17 Nov 2009, 09:30

dear MKji

Madras and Bombay were two different cities. Chembai in Bombay and GNB in Madras !

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 17 Nov 2009, 18:15

Sivachinta1965: Do not understand what you mean by Madras and Bombay are different cities OR the reference about Chembai in Bombay and GNB in Madras.

You may be mixing up two issues-remuneration differentials between two artistes(mentioned as an example in one of my earlier posts) and the popularity or the lack of-- some musicians of the past.

However in keeping with the spirit of this topic,what I intend to convey is that beyond luck that nobody can predict or control,the artistes have to have some "street smartness" in the way they pursue their careers if they want their talent to be acknowledged. I do not mean "cheapening" themselves or "pandering" to egotistical Institution"Chiefs". Simply put:
You as an artist believe in yourself and that you have to offer something unique different from the usual fare. Do it well.The crowd will gather. How did Mali and TNR and Balamurali stand out? It is easy to dismiss them as prodigies and not take them as examples. OK agreed. How about Maharajapuram santhanam and Aruna Sairam. Did they not alter their approaches and Bani just enough to attract a listener-base without compromising aesthetics or violating tradition. In case of Santhanam his lineage actually hurt him. His father Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer not only did not help him in his career(given his stature at that time he could have opened up several doors for santhanam),but also put him(Santhanam) down in his concerts when he was accompanied by his son. Santhanam could not easily overcome the halo of his father,by merely following his father with the older man's captivating, Darbar,Mukhari,Arabhi, Mohanam. he had to offer a wider repertoire of krithis/composers--the trinity as well as others and gain traction.

Likewise Ramnad krishnan--his Vidwat came to light only after he switched to the Dhanamal school but did not mindlessly stick to their languorous style--introduced the briskness that he was capable of and became popular.

Likewise Aruna Sairam--changed her Dhanammal style worked on enlarging hr repertoire,found a niche and became popular--Purists may frown upon the preponderance of Abhangs, and other light songs in her concerts. But the fact remains that both the above mentioned artistes have done the greatest service to CM by broadening the listener base-introducing lots of rasikas in the sidelines to join the mainstream of CM rasikas. It cannot be denied that even amongst rasikas there are several of us who are "closet-elitists" and the times the Rangacharys and Satturs lived had more of them than now and to break that logjam required extraordinary effort and intitiative which may have been lacking!!

True these times are different. But the Satturs and the Rangacharys--may have been talented and well-trained--but having listened to them and looking back now on what was missing the answer is that neither of them offered anything distinct--such as unearthing many rare Muthuswmy Dikshitar's kritis that may not have been in vogue thro the giants of their times.. SSI propagated rare krithis like Kumudakriya,Dwijavanthi--that too at a time when SSI could afford to sit on his laurels and not work on getting new kritis to the forefront.
Ultimately the onus rests on the audience as well--we rasikas have responsibility to dispassionately judge talent and encourage artistes of merit. Fortunately forums like this serve a useful role in highlighting talent that otherwise may not be highlighted.