Kanjira G Harishankar

Carnatic Musicians
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thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Hello All,

I am a crazy fan of Harishankar. He is the best upapakhavadhyam player, if not the bext percussionist ever. He has amazing control over the instrument. He has great aesthetics and was amazingly smart when it comes to kanakku vazhakku.. Unfortunately, i dont have much of his recordings, though i have listened to may be 200 live concerts of his spread over 6 years.

I would request members if they have any harishankar involved music, pls post them

Thanks

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

A suggestion:
Post a sample of his recording that you have, discuss why it is different from others (with examples if possible) and you will get more recordings as people participate....
Just a reminder that discussion is what this forum thrives on...and everything else is extra icing....while the icing on any cake tastes great, without the cake it can't exist on it own.
Ravi

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

thatwamasi

http://rapidshare.de/files/29209646/IMMORTALMOMENTS.MPG

grab this immortal moment and store it in the safest corners of your heart .
also remember to rush to the raj video vison stores in mount road, the next time you are in chennai , to grab the full story of semmangudis concert at the academy.
some great videographing this.
unbelievable set of fingers at work , in the backdrop.
a great palm keeping company in the foreground.

and some well deserved shabhash's..
a golden moment indeed !!


http://rapidshare.de/files/29209646/IMMORTALMOMENTS.MPG

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

<Coolkarni> Thank you very much Sir. I am still downloading it, but I am thanking you before watching it, as I have already understood which one you are talking about. I have fond memories of attending that concert in academy as a 7 yr old toddler...Kudos to you. I lost that video and now I have regained it, thanks to you

srkris
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Post by srkris »

I attended a TNS concert some years ago (2001 or '02). He was performing with T.K.Murthy and Harishankar. The only thing I still remember about that concert is that TKM and Harishankar played a thunderous thaniavartana after a Kambhoji Kriti (I think O Rangasayee). I think Harishankar brought the best out of TKM that day. Too bad he died early :(

Vocalist
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Post by Vocalist »

"passed away" :mad:

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Yeah...It was a day I can never forget. During music season 2001, Hari mama, played around 32 concerts, which is a lot by his standards as he used to play around 15 concerts in the previous seasons. Then in February'02 the news came, and I was devestated. Me and my friends were there throughout his funeral and I still haven't recovered from the fact that he is gone..its 4 and a half years now..:((

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

An interesting anecdote... When the first time, Palghat Mani iyer met Hari mama, Hari was 17. He didn't take Hari seriously. Just asked him to play something. When he started playing, Mani iyer took interest and started asking him complex questions. To his disbelief, the 17 year old was playing/answering with ridiculous ease.(Could we compare him to Capablanca in 1911 Sansebastien chess tournament..lol). At that moment, Rajamani mama(Mani iyer's son, who is a wizard in Kanaku vazhakku) came in. When Mani iyer told him about Hari's prowess, Rajamani mama started asking him complex stuff. Then, Raja mani mama asked Hari to play an immortal Korvai, which Mani iyer played to make Dakshinamurthy Pillai struggle(Dakshinamurthy didnt play it sucessfully). At that moment, Mani iyer stood up and said "This is unfair. If Dakshinamurthy cannot play something, how can this toddler play"..then turned around and said "Avan adhaiyum vaasipaan, ennala kaekka mudiyadhu'..As in"He will play that as well but I can't listen.." That goes to show the respect he had on dakshinamurthy Pillai. Later Hari mama learnt that Korvai and played it with un-imaginable ease and control for the rest of his life. That is the korvai that he has played in the video that Coolkarni has posted. I heard it for one last time live in Music Academy 2001 for Seshagopalan along with M.Chandrasekar and Guruvayur Dorai. I was so enthralled with a subtle variation he played in that korvai but never thought that would be the last time I would hear him play that.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

after debating whether this track shoiuld go on this thread , or the one on TRS or the one performerVsentertainer , finally decided to post it here.
Karaikudi Manis Presence tilted the balance..
http://rapidshare.de/files/29231706/Shr ... -Hari_.mp3

Srigara Kumara by TRS.(more details on the krithi please !!)

meena
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Post by meena »

Kji

aha lovely, composer is sree koteeswara Iyer (his mudra 'kavi kunjara dAsa')

shrngAra kumArA. rAgA: varuNapriyA. tALA: Adi

P: shrngAra kumArA jIvAdhArA udArA en
A: venkOpa ghOra sUrA shamhAra dhIra vIra mAra
C: aruNagirikku unnaruL vAkkaruLiya vAraDiyE tanakkum aruLa taruNam idE
varuNapriya mAmayil vAhana suguNa varada kavi kunjaradAsa karuNAkara

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

Harishankar and K.Mani managed to create quite a storm there, didn't they? ;) A storm with sowkyam if I may.

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Wow...That was a real treasure coolkarniji. Following your concept of performer vs entertainer, I thought I shall post the following here instead of DKJ page. This is a performance of muruga muruga in hamsanandhi. TK Murthy and Harishankar have set the stage on fire.

http://rapidshare.de/files/29321751/06_Track_6.wma.html

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

To most of them who don't know this - Hari mama is ambidexturous. He can play kanjira with both hands with same ease. He plays mridangam with his left hand. I had the luck of listening to Hari mama's mridangam as well.
Last edited by thathwamasi on 14 Aug 2006, 10:08, edited 1 time in total.

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Harishankar is a very smart Tactician when it comes to playing on stage. Till his arrival, people always thought Kanjira is at a disadvantage because they can't play throughout the concert. Hari converted it to his advantage as he viewed it in such a way that, a Kanjira player is not obligated to play throughout the concert where in a mridangist is. So there have been concerts, where you could listen to a lot of silence from Hari and sudddenly one thunderous phrase and that would be it...crowd would go berserk. Apart from that, every upapaklavadhya player confines to his own instrument's style of playing..i.e ghatam players playing only ghatam sollu, kanjira players playing only kanjira sollu etc. But Hari was the one of his kind who had the concept of mridangam bhani on his Kanjira. For eg. when a 2 kalai chavukam keerthanai is played, he instinctively playes keezh kala nadai rather than madhyama kalam, which is a trade mark of the palghat school of mridangam playing. He always played a lot of mridangam bani on his kanjira apart from the Kanjira stuff that he played. Talking about the mridangam bani, December 2001 at Kalarasana, Sanjay sang a pallavi in Bhairavi..the famous ' Govindanadi mukundanadi'. Im sure most of us know that pallavi. The purvanga in sanjay's rendition(unlike others) began with one count before samam on rupakam. and the uthrangam begins 3 counts before samam. A bit complicated to play instantaneously. The mridangist was not informed about this pallavi earlier and hence he was seeing stars.. He couldn't catch up with the pallavi( I don't wanna name the mridangist). Thats when Harishankar took over....And he just played mridangam on his kanjira that night. The challenge for every mridangist is to play phrases which ends exactly where the pallavi's line finished on samam. Hari's way of playing that night just reminded me of an immortal question that DK Pattammal asked Harishankar's mom "From your womb, did you deliver a baby or the Kanjira itself?"

I have got the recording of that pallavi in chennai i believe and I am stuck in bangalore right now. The minute I lay my hands on it, I shall post it here.
Last edited by thathwamasi on 14 Aug 2006, 10:24, edited 1 time in total.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

Wow !!
That was one great post !!
Keep going ..We are all ears !!!!!!!

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

thathwamasi

I second coolkarni! Please post it and also explain it in plain English with timelines for us nonlaya novices!

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

cmlover...I shall definitely try to keep my posts to english as much as possible. But certain terms have more life in tamil...There was a layavinyasa concert in London. I don't remember the other artistes but it U.K.Sivaraman on mridangam and Hari on Kanjira. Sivaraman has the habit of alternative playing on each side of mridangam..i.e he plays just on the right side with his right hand for a few timecycles and then does the same with the left side with his left hand...and keeps alternating it in order to thrill the crowd...and he has amazing control with both hands...So when his turn finished the crowd were really thrilled. What followed was the immortal exhibition of control over the instrument by hari...He played his entire turn, alternating between his right and left hand..He would play a few time cycles with his right and then left..then again right..so on and so forth...And one more cute thing about Harishankar is that...as a Kanjira player he wouldn't start before mridangam does for any song..But when 'Bhavamana' in sung at the end of the concert, he would be the one who would start playing even before mridangam.

Srimushnam Rajarao conducts three days of Ragavendrar poojai in his house every year around August. At that time, all vidwans are free to come to his home and play concerts. Hari shankar used to come there and play for every artist. Thats when I have observed Hari's playing really close enough to observe a few things. When he plays something at a slow speed he moves his playing hand and fingers to cover the entire kanjira..but at high speeds since moving your playing hand becomes impossible..he would move his holding hand..that is..instead of making his fingers go in search of the Kanjira, he shall use his left hand and take the kanjira to his fingers instead...I guess you would be able to mentally figure it out.

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

I think i am not overloading the forum with my messages about Hari mama. But there is something very interesting that i wanna share with the forum. This involves a bit of too complicated Layam..I shall keep it as simple as possible..

This was told to me by Sri.Rajamani mama...First son of Palghat Mani Iyer.

Hari shankar asked this question to Rajamani mama..

"We all know that there are totally 35 talams. Imagining that 35 people are sitting and start at the same count and start putting each thalam in their hands....so we have 35 talams running simultaneously...At that point..the percussionist should play a Korvai, which would begin when all 35 of them begin and the Korvai should end when all the 35 talams come to samam at the same time...as in...if one thalam is 8 beats and the other is 3 beats...both will end at the same time after their LCM which is 24 beats. Similairly it should be done for 35 talams..."

Rajamani mama who is a wizard in Maths...painfully did the calculation..and to his shock...he found out that the least common multiple for the count of the 35 thalams would be such a huge figure that..if u imagine one beat is going to be one second, the it would take 115 years for all the 35 thalams to come back to samam for the second time...(he explained to me and wrote it on a paper as well..)...

So he went back to Hari and said its not possible..but Hari said.."if you accept you haven't found the answer tell me and I shall give you the answer..its simple"...But Rajamani mama never lets things go..So he bought more time and started recalculating but could never find an answer. Unfortunately before giving the answer Hari died. After that, I have tried my level best but I am landing only on rajamani mama's finding and hence feel its impossible to make such a korvai..but anyone wanna try to find the right answer???

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

this is right up vk's street I guess :P
wow !! even the simileys have started to look like khanjiras today ,to me.

Vocalist
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Post by Vocalist »

Great posts thathwamasi!!

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

Yeah, the LCM of the counts of the 35 thalas is huge. My calculation shows it is 8172244080. ( I will have to verify this if your number is different ). Just on a whim, I took out the 5 dhruva thalas ( since they tend to be high in avaratha count ), then it came down to 720720 ( that is only 200 hours ;) ).

Harishankar probably had something else in mind other than a straight LCM based calculation. I can not think of what that would be though..

The following are the avarathana count I used for calculating the LCM. Let me know if I messed up something.

3,4,5,7,9
10,12,14,18,22
7,8,9,11,13
6,7,8,10,12
5,6,7,9,11
8,10,12,16,20
11,14,17,23,29

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

My hunch is that he thought of using different naDe/gatis of the tALas to arrive at a smaller number. i.e Not just cauraSra naDe.

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

That is a good hunch since the jAti variations of the laghu and gathi variations are from the same number space. :thinking: But since nadai variation is only a variation in sub-beats and it does not change the avarthana duration, I can not see how that changes the number of beats it takes for all of them to get to samam at the same time. Right?

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

vasanthakokilam wrote:But since nadai variation is only a variation in sub-beats and it does not change the avarthana duration, I can not see how that changes the number of beats it takes for all of them to get to samam at the same time. Right?
It does change the duration of the tALa. Lets take a simple example of triSra Eka. The nymber of akSharas in the various jAtis is 9, 12, 15, 21 & 27. So they will give rise to a different LCM and different points of concurrence with the other tALas.

SO you still have 35 tALas but not all in caturaSra naDe.

prashant
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Post by prashant »

coolkarni wrote:after debating whether this track shoiuld go on this thread , or the one on TRS or the one performerVsentertainer , finally decided to post it here.
Karaikudi Manis Presence tilted the balance..
http://rapidshare.de/files/29231706/Shr ... -Hari_.mp3

Srigara Kumara by TRS.(more details on the krithi please !!)
Absolutely... amazing... stuff

kalgada78
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Post by kalgada78 »

>>SO you still have 35 tALas but not all in caturaSra naDe.
Yes,DRS is right...the nadai difference would be there to accomplish this.
This puzzle reminds me of a puzzle that was given to me by my guruji.
He asked me to say "Tha Dhi Gi Na Tha ",from Samam to Samam in Adi Talam.
The formula for this is : if you do it in khanda Gati(Tha Dhi Gi na Tha ...is 5),with 8 counts for each of Tha Dhi Gi Na Tha,then you get it from samam to samam in Adi talam.
If you want to do the same Tha Dhi Gi Na Tha in Trisra Triputa,you have to do it in Khanda nadai only,
but the count for each of Tha Dhi Gi na Tha would be 7 instead of 8.
This i guess,is the starting point to the solution to the above puzzle.

Sarma.
Last edited by kalgada78 on 14 Aug 2006, 19:26, edited 1 time in total.

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

DRS, Sarma, I can see how Sarma's Guruji's exercise would work with Nadai change.. but I am confused how the harishankar challenge can be solved with Nadai change.

Isn't it true that no matter how you sub-divide the beat, the beat duration does not change? Putting it another way, the mathra kala is different for different nadai. So, for example, the thisra mathrai duration is 1 1/3 of a chathusra mathrai duration, thus maintanining the constancy of the Akshara (beat) duration. "tha ki ta" of thisram is the same duration as "tha ka dhi mi" of chathusram. So, the duration of "tha" in thisram is 1 1/3 of the duration of "tha" in chathusram... Isn't all this correct?

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

vasanthakokilam wrote:"tha ki ta" of thisram is the same duration as "tha ka dhi mi" of chathusram. So, the duration of "tha" in thisram is 1 1/3 of the duration of "tha" in chathusram... Isn't all this correct?
O no! the "ta ki Ta" of triSra is equal in time to "ta ka dhi" of caturaSra. No change there in actual length of each part thereof. "mi" of takadhimi will fall on the next triSra beat.

kalgada78
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Post by kalgada78 »

DRS,
VK Sir is right in saying that the duration of one beat in Trisra gati is same as one in Chaturasra gati.
VK Sir,from the example i gave,the gati would be constant for all the 35 talas,as you rightly pointed out,
but the duration of each of Tha Dhi Gi Na Tha would be different.
so,to say "Tha Ki Ta" from samam to samam for all the 35 Talas,you must have the nadai as trisra nadai,
but the Duration of each of " Tha Ki Ta" changes as :
(examples :) 1) for Misra Jhampe or Chaturasra eka or trisra roopakam etc,each Tha Ki Ta should be of 5s
2) for Adi or khanda jhampe etc,each Tha Ki Ta should be of 4s.

Sarma.

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Interesting to see a lot of input..

<Vasanthakokilam> You are right..8172244080 is the right number...I am wrong in saying,..115 years...its 259 years...if we imagine one beat to be one second. You are also right in saying Sarma's guruji's technique cannot be the answer for this puzzle.

I have thought through many variations...At present we are assuming chathusra nadai. So if at all we have to bring down the size we have to resort only to thisram. In thisram the size is shortened by 3/4ths. 8 beats become 6 and 4 beats become 3 etc. So even in that case we will have to wait for 194.5 years...(259*3/4).

But one sane answer is this : We generally play a korvai three times and expect the korvai to reach samam at the third time end. And we don't know who set three as the number. So if u take a normal adhi thalam korvai which has 16 aksharams, you will have to play it 510765255 times, so that you would reach samam for all 35 thalams. Basically 8172244080/16.

But it still doesn't convince me. But isn't it a nice calculation to dwell upon and try. This basic idea propped up into Harishankar's head when he saw someone sing a dwi-thaala pallavi. Basically they will be putting two different thalams(of diff. nadais) in two hands and the samam will be following...A classic example would be the following...

We can put Kanda jaathi Ata thalam chathusra nadai in one hand(the common ata tala varnam's thalam) and put Adi talam misra nadai in the other hand...

Ata talam will be 14 beats * 4 counts making it 56 and adi talam misra nadai will be 8 beats * 7 counts making it 56. So every time cycle will bring a samam to them..There are people who do it with great ease. Rajamani mama is one among them. Suguna purushothaman does it very well as well. Coming back to harishankar's puzzle its still a mystery.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

kalgada78 wrote:DRS,
VK Sir is right in saying that the duration of one beat in Trisra gati is same as one in Chaturasra gati.
??I dont understand this at all. How can they be the same. For. e.g- 3 beats in caturaSra naDe is equal to 4 beats in triSra naDe.Take for e.g the kRti "Sankari Samkuru candramukhi" of SS. It is s.et to triSra naDe Adi tALa which is 8*6= 48 akSharas in madhyamakALa. But many artistes sing it to rUpaka tALa -caturaSra naDe and the same thing takes 4 Avartas or 12 beats(12*4=48) which is exactly in keeping with my reckoning. Now I am waiting to hear from you guys.

kalgada78
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Post by kalgada78 »

DRS...iam confused for a moment.I take back my words.The duration is different,as you said.
But as i see it for the puzzle in the context,it should have a same gati for all the talams..
Your opinion?
Last edited by kalgada78 on 15 Aug 2006, 00:27, edited 1 time in total.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

No there is no rule that they should all be in the same gati/naDe. Why should there be that restriction? As far as I can see, there can be no other way around this except by naDe change. unless of course some of the percussionists choose to skip beats and mess up with the tALa. :lol: This is maths, there cannot be manipulation on calculations

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Or how about different speeds instead of different nadais?

kalgada78
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Post by kalgada78 »

>>Why should there be that restriction?
It's not a restriction..it's one of the ways to solve the puzzle,as i see it.
As i tried to illustrate in one of my earlier posts,we can see that the same jathi is dealt in different talams
from samam to samam,with a change in the division of the jathi aksharams instead of changing the gati.
It could also be done by changing the gati,as the jathi intervals and the gati are interchangeable.

Sarma.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

Iam sorry I am not keeping up. Please explain Sarma. There is one restriction which is fundamental. We have to use all the 35 suLAdi tALas. In these, we may choose whatever naDe/gati would best fit the bill.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

I agree the solution just depends on the gati. The problem has no constraints on 'kalaprmANaM'. That is why Hari said the solution is simple.

For convenience let us take the sankeerna laghu dhruva guy as the standard and give him 'one second' kaalam. This amounts to a total of 29 secs per aavartam. Now all others will adjust their kaalam accoding to the total 29secs aavartam count.
For example the thisra laghu eka guy will try to accommodate 9 of his avartams (count 27) inside 29 secs. In other words his kaalam will be 29/27 = 1.074..sec If he is uncomfortable he could try to accommodate 10 avartams (count 30) inside 29 seconds which will give him 29/30 = 0.966 sec kaalam . All the rest will use a similar strategy.

In fact any choice of time will work as long as it is playable!

That is why Hari said it is simple!

kalgada78
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Post by kalgada78 »

DRS,
iam not able to think of a solution with a nadai change..iam a jolthead :-)
I thought of "Dachukovalena" of Sri thyagaraja,which is in Misra Jhampe,which is in Chaturasre gati.
This is sung by some vidwans in Adi talam in Khanda gati.
We can put it as : 10 * 4 = 8 * 5.
If we want to incorporate this logic to a talam like chaturasre jAti Dhruva talam,which is one of the 35 Talams,
then 10 * 4 = 8 * 5 = 14 * x..and this x is not a whole number.So,how can we solve it with the nadai change?
Please correct me if iam going wrong.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

kalgada78 wrote:If we want to incorporate this logic to a talam like chaturasre jAti Dhruva talam,which is one of the 35 Talams,
then 10 * 4 = 8 * 5 = 14 * x..and this x is not a whole number.So,how can we solve it with the nadai change?
Please correct me if iam going wrong.
The logic is correct. But yo are looking at one Avarta. We can use say a multiple of 10*4 i.e x*10*4 that will ultimately fit the rest in different no of Avartas. We are certainly looking at a big number here.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

My answer is based on Einstein's fundamental proposition that Time is relative (no Absolute time). In fact there is no 'absolute' time in CM! Everybody adjust their 'Fundamental' time to come together at the end of the avartams.
It may help according to Einstein if each of them move with a different velocity relative to that of 'light' (the famous Time Paradox):)

kalgada78
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Post by kalgada78 »

>>But yo are looking at one Avarta..
Oh,is it not for an Avarta?if that's the case,then it'd reach the destination sometime,definitely:)
or may be,as cml sir said,it's in the same avartam,but it could be 4 kalai or 8 kalai or whatever,per
kriya.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

kalgada78 wrote:Oh,is it not for an Avarta?if that's the case,then it'd reach the destination sometime,definitely:).
Yah. But we are looking at sometime soon. Not in a few centuries ;)

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

<cmlover> your logic is probably in the right track, but the intriguing fact is that, all the thalams, despite variations, will have to end in some at once and thats when the Korvai should end. So its a herculean task.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

thathwamasi
I understand! Each guy has to finish within the cumulative avartam time. So he has to adjust his timings precisely with micro precision (small errors wont be noticeable). Since the korvai also ends at the avartam everybody come together at the same time. Though the intermediate time is quite messy. If the 'Fundamenatl' kaalam is fixed then only the LCM solution (150years?) will work.

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

While we are all trying to find the answer for the puzzle, let me write about something else.

Karaikudi Mani - Harishankar has always been a very entertaining combination. The recording that coolkarni has posted is an example for that. So is Hari in tandem with Sivaraman. These two people has always bought out the best of hari in a powerplay mode. Its like watching 20-20 cricket or a rapid chess game. I always liked them but I couldn't say I love them.

What I love would be a vintage combination of Palghat Raghu - Harishankar or Murthy Mama - Harishankar. Murthy mama is a pioneer in playing mridangam as mridangam. Hope you get it. He was the purest of all. As in, Karaikudi Mani thrives on thavil style. Mani iyer and UKS used a lot of Chendai and pancha vadhya sollu etc...But Murthy mama will stick on only to Mridanga sollu. And because of his mastery, Hari always had to be on a full alert mode or else he could slip in one intricate fingering of murthy.

Raghu was Aesthetics personified. In my opinion he is the best mixture of Palghat and Palani schools. Because of this versatility, Hari had to be careful as Raghu had more variety in his playing. Raghu's Kuraippu in Thani avardhanams were really challenging as well.

And the third combination I used like was Mannargudi Easwaran and Harishankar. Easwaran is a very shrewd tactician. Because of their AIR association, both of them knew each other's playing so well.

One more combo I have relished is haridwaramangalam Pazhanivel and harishankar. It would be like a huge elephant and a ferocious lion having a go at each other. Harishankar had high regards for Pazhanivel's layagyanam.

The combo's that I could imagine would be Harishankar of 1990's with Mani iyer, Pazhani and murugabhoopathy of 1940's. I always felt, Hari was born 30 years late...Instead of '58 he should have been born by 1928. I can't help but to imagine how enthralling it would have been, if Flute Mali tries to play a kuraippu with Mani iyer and Harishankar....:(

thathwamasi
Posts: 274
Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15

Post by thathwamasi »

CM Lover - You are right. So in your micro precision way or my fundamental kalam way..this is possible only theoritically. If at all we arrive at a solution, it has to be chartable. We should be able to write it on paper in 35 parts to quantify exactly how it should be done. May be like staff notation kinds. Thats were it hits logically. Like how we can't staff notate gamakam, i don't think it won't be possible to quantify the micro precision that you r talking about.

thathwamasi
Posts: 274
Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15

Post by thathwamasi »

CM Lover - But I do appreciate your idea. Like how we do anulomam and pratilomam while singing pallavis, probably we can change the Kala based on the sangeerna dhruva guy. But the problem here is, the korvai should seat perfectly in each guys hand. So if two talams are running in two different kalams, the korvai won't sit in one of the guy's thalam right?

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

Post by drshrikaanth »

One thing is clear. whatever number we arrive at(as the one given above with all in caturaSra gati), that number MUST be divisble by 10. it must also be divisible by 4 and any other naDes(3,5,7,9) we use

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

thathwamasi wrote:We can put Kanda jaathi Ata thalam chathusra nadai in one hand(the common ata tala varnam's thalam) and put Adi talam misra nadai in the other hand...

Ata talam will be 14 beats * 4 counts making it 56 and adi talam misra nadai will be 8 beats * 7 counts making it 56. So every time cycle will bring a samam to them...
This kind of dwi-thala pallavi is lot easier to mathematically explain ( not easy playing or keeping track ). We do not need nadai change. It is actually LCM calculation that will suffice. You can stick to chathusra nadai and the LCM of 8 and 14 is 56. The two thalas will converge at 7 avarthanams of Adi and 4 avarthanams of Ata.

(rhythm instrumentalists use the word 'thisram' and 'misram' in a different context as well. With the same chathusra nadai sub-beats you can group them to give the "illusion" of misram. I think that is what you would call "playing misram over chathusram" ( which does not involve nadai change ). So, if you take the LCM of 56 and multiply by 4 chathusram sub-beats, you get 224 chathusram sub-beats.. If you group it by 7, you will have 32 such groups. So you play it 32 times, you will be come back to samam. But that is just playing technique and not nadai change. )

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

Post by drshrikaanth »

Going by the divisibility by 10, I think we are looking at a lot of khaNDa naDe.

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