Thats not what I said VK. It is obvious from the equations I provided. I have not wily nily chosen different nades from different tALas and grouped them together.vasanthakokilam wrote:Do your equations then allow for picking any 35 out of the 175? As an example, can one mridangamist choose thisra nadai chathusra jati ekam and another one choose chathusra nadai chathusra jati ekam? ( If that is not even allowed by Hari, then it is a moot point ).
Kanjira G Harishankar
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Wow! Lot of posts before i could complete mine (:-).
As I stated earlier, no mater what mixture of naDais you use for *each tala*, the eventual mathrai count you arrive for that tala MUST be divisible by the akshara count. So this implies that the smallest possible korvai length in mathars will indeed be *least*-common-multiple of all the akshara counts. This is of course probably stating obvious, but in itself implies that mixture of nadais dont matter for LCM calculation. They cannot bring the value down, in fact they can only help approach the minimum possible value (minimum here being redundant as we are finding LCM - but i thinking it is important to emphasize this).
For example, between tisra-triputa (7) and say tisra-eka (3), if you cannot mix gatis, and you must stick to catusra gati, then you are finding LCM between 28 and 12 and that is 84. If you are in tisra, you are finding LCM between 21 and 9 and that is 63. But if you can mix gatis, your LCM is simply 21, which is 7*3 (you do one avarthana, with tisra-triputa in tisra gati, but tisra-eka in misra gati), which is the LCM of the akshara count. So if you cannot mix gatis, you will always arrive at an answer that is a multiple of the LCM of the akshara count, hence no need to bring gatis into the mix here (pun intended!). You bring that to figure how each tala would be put to arrive at the korvai mathrai count
To get at LCM, you separate the 35 talas into 2 sets: One set P with akshara count of primes. Another set NP with those whose akshara count are non-primes. The set P, you leave alone as you cant do much. But in NP, you eliminate any member whose multipe (any mutiple) is also in NP (e.g. eliminate 3, if 6 or 9 is present; eliminate 6 if 12 is present, eliminate 11 if 22 is present). Once done, simply multiply all the members in the union of N and NP, that is the answer. At this point, I tend to believe (only because i am lazy to do this now) the answer is 8172244080.
Arun
As I stated earlier, no mater what mixture of naDais you use for *each tala*, the eventual mathrai count you arrive for that tala MUST be divisible by the akshara count. So this implies that the smallest possible korvai length in mathars will indeed be *least*-common-multiple of all the akshara counts. This is of course probably stating obvious, but in itself implies that mixture of nadais dont matter for LCM calculation. They cannot bring the value down, in fact they can only help approach the minimum possible value (minimum here being redundant as we are finding LCM - but i thinking it is important to emphasize this).
For example, between tisra-triputa (7) and say tisra-eka (3), if you cannot mix gatis, and you must stick to catusra gati, then you are finding LCM between 28 and 12 and that is 84. If you are in tisra, you are finding LCM between 21 and 9 and that is 63. But if you can mix gatis, your LCM is simply 21, which is 7*3 (you do one avarthana, with tisra-triputa in tisra gati, but tisra-eka in misra gati), which is the LCM of the akshara count. So if you cannot mix gatis, you will always arrive at an answer that is a multiple of the LCM of the akshara count, hence no need to bring gatis into the mix here (pun intended!). You bring that to figure how each tala would be put to arrive at the korvai mathrai count
To get at LCM, you separate the 35 talas into 2 sets: One set P with akshara count of primes. Another set NP with those whose akshara count are non-primes. The set P, you leave alone as you cant do much. But in NP, you eliminate any member whose multipe (any mutiple) is also in NP (e.g. eliminate 3, if 6 or 9 is present; eliminate 6 if 12 is present, eliminate 11 if 22 is present). Once done, simply multiply all the members in the union of N and NP, that is the answer. At this point, I tend to believe (only because i am lazy to do this now) the answer is 8172244080.
Arun
Last edited by arunk on 19 Aug 2006, 00:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Yes I did exactly that. First the LCM for primes and then do it with Nonprimes. I used different nades but they are giving the ssme result. I rechecked my calculations and yes, one data entry was wrong which is why I got the smaller number. SO, 23 was actually left out and so it was no coincidence indeed that the number I obtained multiplied by 23 is the LCM. So, I can only conclude that Harishankar may have been joking as there is no way to reduce this number, (unless you break all rules)arunk wrote:To get at LCM, you separate the 35 talas into 2 sets: One set P with akshara count of primes. Another set NP with those whose akshara count are non-primes. The set P, you leave alone as you cant do much. But in NP, you eliminate any member whose multipe (any mutiple) is also in NP (e.g. eliminate 3, if 6 or 9 is present; eliminate 6 if 12 is present, eliminate 11 if 22 is present). Once done, simply multiply all the members in the union of N and NP, that is the answer. At this point, I tend to believe (only because i am lazy to do this now) the answer is 8172244080.
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Thathwamasi sir,
Thanks very much for some nice anecdotes on srI harishankar. Amidst all the number crunching, a couple of nice reads on this laya maestro:
http://www.sruti.com/mar02/marmain.html
http://carnatica.net/tribute/tributekhanjiras.htm
regards
Thanks very much for some nice anecdotes on srI harishankar. Amidst all the number crunching, a couple of nice reads on this laya maestro:
http://www.sruti.com/mar02/marmain.html
http://carnatica.net/tribute/tributekhanjiras.htm
regards
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Inconsequential..Thanks so much....
I was just thinking of uploading some videos tracing some important aspects of Hari's playing. I have uploaded the earliest of Hari videos I have. He is accompanying MLV along with Kanyakumari, Bhaktha and EMS. Its so refreshing to see such a young Hari and Bhaktha. After looking at Hari in this video, I have named him as the Devil of Rishiveli...lol...
He is so young and vibrant, with such golden fingers. He has played a luvly bit of thani avardhanam. There would be no fun if I just upload Hari's bit due to some reasons. Hence I have putup the entire thani.
Points to be noted..
Hari's way of holding the Kanjira..just perfect. And his fingering is amazing.
Bhaktha might have changed his style of playing now, but you can see his affinity towards Karaikudi Mani's playing in this Thani.
The unique thing in this thani is that, the mridangist has played in Thavil bhani and the Ghatam artist has played in Mridangam bhani..(as in, he hasn't played much of ghatam sollu). Hari has played perfect Kanjira stuff. And the way Hari improvised in the final Korvai is a pleasure to watch/listen.
Hope you guys like it.
http://rapidshare.de/files/30172626/Hari011.wmv.html
Try this. Please let me know your comments.
I was just thinking of uploading some videos tracing some important aspects of Hari's playing. I have uploaded the earliest of Hari videos I have. He is accompanying MLV along with Kanyakumari, Bhaktha and EMS. Its so refreshing to see such a young Hari and Bhaktha. After looking at Hari in this video, I have named him as the Devil of Rishiveli...lol...
He is so young and vibrant, with such golden fingers. He has played a luvly bit of thani avardhanam. There would be no fun if I just upload Hari's bit due to some reasons. Hence I have putup the entire thani.
Points to be noted..
Hari's way of holding the Kanjira..just perfect. And his fingering is amazing.
Bhaktha might have changed his style of playing now, but you can see his affinity towards Karaikudi Mani's playing in this Thani.
The unique thing in this thani is that, the mridangist has played in Thavil bhani and the Ghatam artist has played in Mridangam bhani..(as in, he hasn't played much of ghatam sollu). Hari has played perfect Kanjira stuff. And the way Hari improvised in the final Korvai is a pleasure to watch/listen.
Hope you guys like it.
http://rapidshare.de/files/30172626/Hari011.wmv.html
Try this. Please let me know your comments.
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Well .. Those who had a chance to listen to Mali's last concert will appreciate the last point .The mridangam vidwan (will not name him ) slipped , but Harishankar matched Mali beautifully..thathwamasi wrote:While we are all trying to find the answer for the puzzle, let me write about something else.
The combo's that I could imagine would be Harishankar of 1990's with Mani iyer, Pazhani and murugabhoopathy of 1940's. I always felt, Hari was born 30 years late...Instead of '58 he should have been born by 1928. I can't help but to imagine how enthralling it would have been, if Flute Mali tries to play a kuraippu with Mani iyer and Harishankar....
Another person who brought out the best in Harishankar is TNS . TNS- KRM-HS is probably the best after the hypothetical Mali- PMI-HS combo
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Such things are allowed, and even heighten the interest in a concert. I'm sure your vidwan met the vast majority of his rhythmic challenges, and there is no shame in knowing his name in the context of having missed one.The mridangam vidwan (will not name him ) slipped
At Harishankar's level of genius the instrument becomes almost irrelevant. Yes, he chose a very difficult instrument and his fingers more than mastered it, but his true skill was in his head, in his ability not only to answer, but to calculate, re-calculate and juggle again, seemingly effortlessly.
Not just a kanjira master, but a total master percussionist.
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In a different thread I had called Harishankar the " Mount Everest of Kanjira" .nick H wrote:Such things are allowed, and even heighten the interest in a concert. I'm sure your vidwan met the vast majority of his rhythmic challenges, and there is no shame in knowing his name in the context of having missed one.The mridangam vidwan (will not name him ) slipped
At Harishankar's level of genius the instrument becomes almost irrelevant. Yes, he chose a very difficult instrument and his fingers more than mastered it, but his true skill was in his head, in his ability not only to answer, but to calculate, re-calculate and juggle again, seemingly effortlessly.
Not just a kanjira master, but a total master percussionist.
It would not be inappropriate to call him "Mount Everest of Percussion"
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Oops...I cant believe I have missed the recent developments on this thread. The point about Mali's last concert was excellant. That is a concert that I will cherish. Hari did match Mali very well.
About Hari being Mount Everest of percussion, I totally agree with that. In some other thread I had mentioned Palghat Mani Iyer as the Meru.
I am so happy that my dear friends, Nerkunram Shankar, Bangalore Amrith and B Sreesunderkumar made the Harishankar Memorial function a great success. All four of us share great admiration and memories of Harishankar. Happy to see the Harishankar Legacy continue.
Does anyone know if there is a photograph of Harishankar on the hall of fame corridor of Music Academy??
About Hari being Mount Everest of percussion, I totally agree with that. In some other thread I had mentioned Palghat Mani Iyer as the Meru.
I am so happy that my dear friends, Nerkunram Shankar, Bangalore Amrith and B Sreesunderkumar made the Harishankar Memorial function a great success. All four of us share great admiration and memories of Harishankar. Happy to see the Harishankar Legacy continue.
Does anyone know if there is a photograph of Harishankar on the hall of fame corridor of Music Academy??
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There is a small youtube video of mali with harishankar. Im a layman when it comes tro laya. In the video he plays shiva shiva enaraada with a complex muktaaya which is matched only by harishankar. And mali looks back and nods in approbation.. wonderful videothathwamasi wrote:Oops...I cant believe I have missed the recent developments on this thread. The point about Mali's last concert was excellant. That is a concert that I will cherish. Hari did match Mali very well.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=glBlMa3zFQM
Is the violinist T rukmni? Who are the ones on mridanga and morsing?
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Yes Thanjavooran , you are right.
Accompanists are as follows:
Dwaram Mangathayaru - Violin
Mannargudi Easwaran - Mridangam
Hari Shankar - Kanjira
Pudukottai Mahadevan - Morsing
Beautiful Video. The Sabha has a thatched roof , with fans , a far cry from today when almost all Sabhas are uncomfortably chill with high airconditioning.
Mali is supported by 3 pillows tripling up as a make shift back rest.
Ofcourse the music is divine ... absolutely !
Accompanists are as follows:
Dwaram Mangathayaru - Violin
Mannargudi Easwaran - Mridangam
Hari Shankar - Kanjira
Pudukottai Mahadevan - Morsing
Beautiful Video. The Sabha has a thatched roof , with fans , a far cry from today when almost all Sabhas are uncomfortably chill with high airconditioning.
Mali is supported by 3 pillows tripling up as a make shift back rest.
Ofcourse the music is divine ... absolutely !
Last edited by cienu on 24 Feb 2008, 23:30, edited 1 time in total.
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sshankar,sshankar_1970 wrote:This is probably Mali's last concert -Dec 31st 2005 Krishna Gana Sabha
How wonderful if this were true. We would have heard the great Mali for 19 years and 7 months more ! Unfortunately he reached his Creator on May 31st 1986...
Last edited by cienu on 25 Feb 2008, 14:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Sorry .. should read Dec 31st 1985cienu wrote:sshankar,sshankar_1970 wrote:This is probably Mali's last concert -Dec 31st 2005 Krishna Gana Sabha
How wonderful if this were true. We would have heard the great Mali for 19 years and 7 months more ! Unfortunately he reached his Creator on May 31st 1986...
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For Sri. Trichy Sankaran and Sri.Harishankar fans, there is a nice concert of them playing together for Hyderabad Bros .
http://sangeethamshare.org/ksomu/Carnat ... cal/HB-07/
http://sangeethamshare.org/ksomu/Carnat ... cal/HB-07/
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Hi thatwamasi,coolkarni wrote:thatwamasi
http://rapidshare.de/files/29209646/IMMORTALMOMENTS.MPG
grab this immortal moment and store it in the safest corners of your heart .
also remember to rush to the raj video vison stores in mount road, the next time you are in chennai , to grab the full story of semmangudis concert at the academy.
some great videographing this.
unbelievable set of fingers at work , in the backdrop.
a great palm keeping company in the foreground.
and some well deserved shabhash's..
a golden moment indeed !!
http://rapidshare.de/files/29209646/IMMORTALMOMENTS.MPG
I got one of my friends to go to Raj Videos... There is no such vidoes in that store....!!! Can u please share the exact info, please......???
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Semmu86 - Not sure if they have any plans of them converting it. However, you can look for a double audio cassette released by AVM (I guess) of this concert. But they have cut a few pieces. I bought it like 8 years before and now I dunno where it is now. There are many lively comments of Semmangudi which wlil make u laugh so much in that concert.
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ya i have that double audio concert.... i dont have the complete song list of that concert, so i really dont know what all pieces they have omitted.... and it certainly looks like they have omitted because in those cassettes the concert starts from "sri mAthrubHootham" and ends in the thillana, looks like incomplete to me.... and of course as you said wonderful humorous commments by mama ,, especially his fondness towards harishankar
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Semmu86 - I am sure they cut off the first item of the concert which was 'Inta Paraka'. And more so on the video, some funny gestures by Semmangudi Mama. In pankaja Lochana, while singing the Anupallavi - he will be singing Shankara Vidi Vala and he will be pointing out to Shankaran with a baby like Smile... ...And Harishankar would have played some really really cute fillers in between in that Pankaja Lochana.
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Hi Tathvamasi,
The video clip you posted before
http://rapidshare.de/files/29209646/IMMORTALMOMENTS.MPG
is not working anymore. (An error occurs that says no download activity for a long time)
If it is not too much trouble, could you please post this clip (and others if any ) again ?
The video clip you posted before
http://rapidshare.de/files/29209646/IMMORTALMOMENTS.MPG
is not working anymore. (An error occurs that says no download activity for a long time)
If it is not too much trouble, could you please post this clip (and others if any ) again ?
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Hi Thathwamasi, I have that entire concert in MP3 format... if u could help me to upload every body can share that beautiful concert.....
Last edited by khanjirachavana on 30 Apr 2008, 14:05, edited 1 time in total.
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hi khanjirachavana.... i think you are mentioning about its audio ( am sincerely hoping that am proved wrong and you have full video of it) .... audio is available even now i think and one more thing is i dont know whether our forum allows us to upload commercial recordings (since that concert can be brought actually)