Kanjira G Harishankar

Carnatic Musicians
drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

vasanthakokilam wrote:Do your equations then allow for picking any 35 out of the 175? As an example, can one mridangamist choose thisra nadai chathusra jati ekam and another one choose chathusra nadai chathusra jati ekam? ( If that is not even allowed by Hari, then it is a moot point ).
Thats not what I said VK. It is obvious from the equations I provided. I have not wily nily chosen different nades from different tALas and grouped them together.

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

Alright then.. Since that is not allowed, I will drop that line of thinking.

DRS, I did not mean to say you said that.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

vk

the 175 taalas (35x5 nadai) from which you select 35 (making sure all the basic 35 types are represented) will have the minimum LCM 8172244080. So that is not not going to reduce the value!
nadai is irrelevant and redundant

arunk
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Post by arunk »

Wow! Lot of posts before i could complete mine (:-).

As I stated earlier, no mater what mixture of naDais you use for *each tala*, the eventual mathrai count you arrive for that tala MUST be divisible by the akshara count. So this implies that the smallest possible korvai length in mathars will indeed be *least*-common-multiple of all the akshara counts. This is of course probably stating obvious, but in itself implies that mixture of nadais dont matter for LCM calculation. They cannot bring the value down, in fact they can only help approach the minimum possible value (minimum here being redundant as we are finding LCM - but i thinking it is important to emphasize this).

For example, between tisra-triputa (7) and say tisra-eka (3), if you cannot mix gatis, and you must stick to catusra gati, then you are finding LCM between 28 and 12 and that is 84. If you are in tisra, you are finding LCM between 21 and 9 and that is 63. But if you can mix gatis, your LCM is simply 21, which is 7*3 (you do one avarthana, with tisra-triputa in tisra gati, but tisra-eka in misra gati), which is the LCM of the akshara count. So if you cannot mix gatis, you will always arrive at an answer that is a multiple of the LCM of the akshara count, hence no need to bring gatis into the mix here (pun intended!). You bring that to figure how each tala would be put to arrive at the korvai mathrai count

To get at LCM, you separate the 35 talas into 2 sets: One set P with akshara count of primes. Another set NP with those whose akshara count are non-primes. The set P, you leave alone as you cant do much. But in NP, you eliminate any member whose multipe (any mutiple) is also in NP (e.g. eliminate 3, if 6 or 9 is present; eliminate 6 if 12 is present, eliminate 11 if 22 is present). Once done, simply multiply all the members in the union of N and NP, that is the answer. At this point, I tend to believe (only because i am lazy to do this now) the answer is 8172244080.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 19 Aug 2006, 00:43, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

tathAstu!

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

Arun, we are all convinced beyond doubt that if you strictly go by akshara count , the LCM is 8172244080. Having said that, to make your method of calculation whole, in your reasoning, since P is a set of primes, how can it contain a multiple of numbers from NP?

arunk
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Post by arunk »

that was a typo. I edited that post 3 times (:-)

arunk
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Post by arunk »

only 3 mistakes in a post of mine, could be my LCM least committed mistakes (:-)

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

oops, sorry.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

arunk wrote:To get at LCM, you separate the 35 talas into 2 sets: One set P with akshara count of primes. Another set NP with those whose akshara count are non-primes. The set P, you leave alone as you cant do much. But in NP, you eliminate any member whose multipe (any mutiple) is also in NP (e.g. eliminate 3, if 6 or 9 is present; eliminate 6 if 12 is present, eliminate 11 if 22 is present). Once done, simply multiply all the members in the union of N and NP, that is the answer. At this point, I tend to believe (only because i am lazy to do this now) the answer is 8172244080.
Yes I did exactly that. First the LCM for primes and then do it with Nonprimes. I used different nades but they are giving the ssme result. I rechecked my calculations and yes, one data entry was wrong which is why I got the smaller number. SO, 23 was actually left out and so it was no coincidence indeed that the number I obtained multiplied by 23 is the LCM. So, I can only conclude that Harishankar may have been joking as there is no way to reduce this number, (unless you break all rules)

arunk
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Post by arunk »

actually my approach has a mistake: I had mentioned that you multiply all remaining numbers and that is incorrect for LCM if some are non-primes as those remaining in NP. You instead first find LCM of "NP" and then multiple it with the product of each number in P.

Sorry.

Arun

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

Arun
I took it that thats what you meant, as is evident from my previous post. :)

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

cmlover wrote:tathAstu!
I think we are now moving our head up and down in agreement ( we need a emoticon for that ;) )

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

vasanthakokilam wrote:I think we are now moving our head up and down in agreement ( we need a emoticon for that ;) )
A moving emoticon :rolleyes: Just pray that Meena does not see this post of yours :lol:

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

Sorry Meena.... This will do for now..

Image

meena
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Post by meena »

OH NO, i protest, not those thingys.

arunk
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Post by arunk »

vk - that is pretty cool!

(sorry meena - unlike some of the others, this one seems quite appropriate!)

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 19 Aug 2006, 01:18, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

So just as Venkatamahi concluded that even
SrikaNTha cannot change the number 72 for the total meLakartas, we have, even
SrikAnta cannot change the number 8172244080 for attaining equanimity for tALas!
OM SAnti SAnti SAntiH|

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

haha! Thanks for comparing me with the great vEnkaTamakhi

inconsequential
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Post by inconsequential »

Thathwamasi sir,

Thanks very much for some nice anecdotes on srI harishankar. Amidst all the number crunching, a couple of nice reads on this laya maestro:

http://www.sruti.com/mar02/marmain.html
http://carnatica.net/tribute/tributekhanjiras.htm

regards

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Inconsequential..Thanks so much....

I was just thinking of uploading some videos tracing some important aspects of Hari's playing. I have uploaded the earliest of Hari videos I have. He is accompanying MLV along with Kanyakumari, Bhaktha and EMS. Its so refreshing to see such a young Hari and Bhaktha. After looking at Hari in this video, I have named him as the Devil of Rishiveli...lol...

He is so young and vibrant, with such golden fingers. He has played a luvly bit of thani avardhanam. There would be no fun if I just upload Hari's bit due to some reasons. Hence I have putup the entire thani.

Points to be noted..

Hari's way of holding the Kanjira..just perfect. And his fingering is amazing.

Bhaktha might have changed his style of playing now, but you can see his affinity towards Karaikudi Mani's playing in this Thani.

The unique thing in this thani is that, the mridangist has played in Thavil bhani and the Ghatam artist has played in Mridangam bhani..(as in, he hasn't played much of ghatam sollu). Hari has played perfect Kanjira stuff. And the way Hari improvised in the final Korvai is a pleasure to watch/listen.

Hope you guys like it.

http://rapidshare.de/files/30172626/Hari011.wmv.html

Try this. Please let me know your comments.

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

Fantastic. Hope no one took a bathroom or cafeteria break during this thani ;)

sshankar_1970
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Post by sshankar_1970 »

thathwamasi wrote:While we are all trying to find the answer for the puzzle, let me write about something else.


The combo's that I could imagine would be Harishankar of 1990's with Mani iyer, Pazhani and murugabhoopathy of 1940's. I always felt, Hari was born 30 years late...Instead of '58 he should have been born by 1928. I can't help but to imagine how enthralling it would have been, if Flute Mali tries to play a kuraippu with Mani iyer and Harishankar....:(
Well .. Those who had a chance to listen to Mali's last concert will appreciate the last point .The mridangam vidwan (will not name him ) slipped , but Harishankar matched Mali beautifully..

Another person who brought out the best in Harishankar is TNS . TNS- KRM-HS is probably the best after the hypothetical Mali- PMI-HS combo

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

The mridangam vidwan (will not name him ) slipped
Such things are allowed, and even heighten the interest in a concert. I'm sure your vidwan met the vast majority of his rhythmic challenges, and there is no shame in knowing his name in the context of having missed one.

At Harishankar's level of genius the instrument becomes almost irrelevant. Yes, he chose a very difficult instrument and his fingers more than mastered it, but his true skill was in his head, in his ability not only to answer, but to calculate, re-calculate and juggle again, seemingly effortlessly.

Not just a kanjira master, but a total master percussionist.

cienu
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Post by cienu »

nick H wrote:
The mridangam vidwan (will not name him ) slipped
Such things are allowed, and even heighten the interest in a concert. I'm sure your vidwan met the vast majority of his rhythmic challenges, and there is no shame in knowing his name in the context of having missed one.

At Harishankar's level of genius the instrument becomes almost irrelevant. Yes, he chose a very difficult instrument and his fingers more than mastered it, but his true skill was in his head, in his ability not only to answer, but to calculate, re-calculate and juggle again, seemingly effortlessly.

Not just a kanjira master, but a total master percussionist.
In a different thread I had called Harishankar the " Mount Everest of Kanjira" .

It would not be inappropriate to call him "Mount Everest of Percussion"

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

Indeed....

Oh! I thought we were in that thread!

shankarabharanam
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Post by shankarabharanam »

What a wonderful thread...:)

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Oops...I cant believe I have missed the recent developments on this thread. The point about Mali's last concert was excellant. That is a concert that I will cherish. Hari did match Mali very well.

About Hari being Mount Everest of percussion, I totally agree with that. In some other thread I had mentioned Palghat Mani Iyer as the Meru.

I am so happy that my dear friends, Nerkunram Shankar, Bangalore Amrith and B Sreesunderkumar made the Harishankar Memorial function a great success. All four of us share great admiration and memories of Harishankar. Happy to see the Harishankar Legacy continue.

Does anyone know if there is a photograph of Harishankar on the hall of fame corridor of Music Academy??

matterwaves
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Post by matterwaves »

thathwamasi wrote:Oops...I cant believe I have missed the recent developments on this thread. The point about Mali's last concert was excellant. That is a concert that I will cherish. Hari did match Mali very well.
There is a small youtube video of mali with harishankar. Im a layman when it comes tro laya. In the video he plays shiva shiva enaraada with a complex muktaaya which is matched only by harishankar. And mali looks back and nods in approbation.. wonderful video

http://youtube.com/watch?v=glBlMa3zFQM

Is the violinist T rukmni? Who are the ones on mridanga and morsing?

thanjavooran
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Post by thanjavooran »

May be Dwaram Mangathayaru on violin and mannarkudi Easwaran on mridungam .

cienu
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Post by cienu »

Yes Thanjavooran , you are right.

Accompanists are as follows:
Dwaram Mangathayaru - Violin
Mannargudi Easwaran - Mridangam
Hari Shankar - Kanjira
Pudukottai Mahadevan - Morsing

Beautiful Video. The Sabha has a thatched roof , with fans , a far cry from today when almost all Sabhas are uncomfortably chill with high airconditioning.

Mali is supported by 3 pillows tripling up as a make shift back rest.

Ofcourse the music is divine ... absolutely !
Last edited by cienu on 24 Feb 2008, 23:30, edited 1 time in total.

sshankar_1970
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Post by sshankar_1970 »

This is probably Mali's last concert -Dec 31st 2005 Krishna Gana Sabha

cienu
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Post by cienu »

sshankar_1970 wrote:This is probably Mali's last concert -Dec 31st 2005 Krishna Gana Sabha
sshankar,

How wonderful if this were true. We would have heard the great Mali for 19 years and 7 months more ! Unfortunately he reached his Creator on May 31st 1986...:(
Last edited by cienu on 25 Feb 2008, 14:10, edited 1 time in total.

sshankar_1970
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Post by sshankar_1970 »

cienu wrote:
sshankar_1970 wrote:This is probably Mali's last concert -Dec 31st 2005 Krishna Gana Sabha
sshankar,

How wonderful if this were true. We would have heard the great Mali for 19 years and 7 months more ! Unfortunately he reached his Creator on May 31st 1986...:(
Sorry .. should read Dec 31st 1985

RaviVeda
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Post by RaviVeda »

For Sri. Trichy Sankaran and Sri.Harishankar fans, there is a nice concert of them playing together for Hyderabad Bros .

http://sangeethamshare.org/ksomu/Carnat ... cal/HB-07/

semmu86
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Post by semmu86 »

wow.... wonderful... am looking for more sankaran sir's concerts.... can you please provide me the link or tell where its available online... if it is with harishankar then its icing on the cake

semmu86
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Post by semmu86 »

just vintage sankaran..enna nAdham!!!.... see the way how the thisra gathi roars... and what to say abouut harishankar.... my GOD just the way he played that tisram and the replies to the khanda koraippu in tisram,,, atleast am lucky to hear harishankar in tapes if not live.....

semmu86
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Post by semmu86 »

are there any other concerts of sankaran sir and harishankar (if not together,, atleast seperately) in sangeethapriya / sangeethamshare apart from airport concert, 67 MA concert withh semmangudi mama,, etc etc....????
if anyone can tell..

thanks a lot

khanjirachavana
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Post by khanjirachavana »

coolkarni wrote:thatwamasi

http://rapidshare.de/files/29209646/IMMORTALMOMENTS.MPG

grab this immortal moment and store it in the safest corners of your heart .
also remember to rush to the raj video vison stores in mount road, the next time you are in chennai , to grab the full story of semmangudis concert at the academy.
some great videographing this.
unbelievable set of fingers at work , in the backdrop.
a great palm keeping company in the foreground.

and some well deserved shabhash's..
a golden moment indeed !!


http://rapidshare.de/files/29209646/IMMORTALMOMENTS.MPG
Hi thatwamasi,

I got one of my friends to go to Raj Videos... There is no such vidoes in that store....!!! Can u please share the exact info, please......???

semmu86
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Post by semmu86 »

even i also asked raj video vision about that concert.... they said they dont have that right now and that they will be realeasing the video of that concert again in a couple of months

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

All

This video was release by Raj Video Vision as a Video Cassette. Its Semmangudi's 1988 music academy concert, with TNK , Shankaran and Harishankar. I dont if they have stock of it. But its a fab concert.

semmu86
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Post by semmu86 »

probably they are in the process of converting those into cd's.... well to sri.thathwamasi and others if you have that in a cd is is it possible to upload that in our forum(rules permitting)???

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Semmu86 - Not sure if they have any plans of them converting it. However, you can look for a double audio cassette released by AVM (I guess) of this concert. But they have cut a few pieces. I bought it like 8 years before and now I dunno where it is now. There are many lively comments of Semmangudi which wlil make u laugh so much in that concert.

semmu86
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Post by semmu86 »

ya i have that double audio concert.... i dont have the complete song list of that concert, so i really dont know what all pieces they have omitted.... and it certainly looks like they have omitted because in those cassettes the concert starts from "sri mAthrubHootham" and ends in the thillana, looks like incomplete to me.... and of course as you said wonderful humorous commments by mama ,, especially his fondness towards harishankar

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Semmu86 - I am sure they cut off the first item of the concert which was 'Inta Paraka'. And more so on the video, some funny gestures by Semmangudi Mama. In pankaja Lochana, while singing the Anupallavi - he will be singing Shankara Vidi Vala and he will be pointing out to Shankaran with a baby like Smile...:) :)...And Harishankar would have played some really really cute fillers in between in that Pankaja Lochana.

semmu86
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Post by semmu86 »

oh wonderful.... am now even more eager than before to get hold of a copy of the video of that concert.... what about the end pieces??? does the concert end with solla vallayo and thillana???

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Semmu86....I dont remember the end pieces because I never went beyond the tani avartanam...the famous harishankar korvai followed by a lovely misram by Shankaran and Harishankar...oh I never had the temptation to go beyond that...

hanasoge
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Post by hanasoge »

Hi Tathvamasi,

The video clip you posted before

http://rapidshare.de/files/29209646/IMMORTALMOMENTS.MPG

is not working anymore. (An error occurs that says no download activity for a long time)

If it is not too much trouble, could you please post this clip (and others if any ;)) again ?

khanjirachavana
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Post by khanjirachavana »

Hi Thathwamasi, I have that entire concert in MP3 format... if u could help me to upload every body can share that beautiful concert.....
Last edited by khanjirachavana on 30 Apr 2008, 14:05, edited 1 time in total.

semmu86
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Post by semmu86 »

hi khanjirachavana.... i think you are mentioning about its audio ( am sincerely hoping that am proved wrong and you have full video of it) .... audio is available even now i think and one more thing is i dont know whether our forum allows us to upload commercial recordings (since that concert can be brought actually)

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