Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Review the latest concerts you have listened to.
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thanjavooran
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by thanjavooran »

Face to face with Smt Dr R Vedavalli

The function started at 18 15 hrs. Though Chief guest and others were present the reason for late starting not known. To my surprise TVG SK was not present. Later after the starting only came to know this TVG is different. A mistake in understanding the services of the Awardee. Few points noted are listed below.
Prayer by Jayasree Ramakrishnan one of the trustees. Ganapathiye saranam in K K priya
Welcome address by Kamakoti also a trustee G Priya Foundations
Recording and archiving of CM Viz Pattanam Subramaniya Iyer 's kritis
Rare St T's kritis by Embar Kasturi and making out of CD s are done.
Workshops on Voice and tonal culture by AM Sharma and by Sridharan for the benefit of students were conducted.
Uploading and sharing of CM w/o any legal dispute is done
Shriman TVG is the nephew of GNB . Sofar 11760 concerts are available on line out of which 5670 are the contribution [more than 50%] by TVG Avl.
In his house most of the space is occupied by electronic gadgets and wires all over blocking the way to enter room.
He is very humble and pious, but for his wife's cooperation this is not possible.
He was in an Insurance company and taken up voluntary retirement only for this pass time.
He has even arranged automation for scheduling of recording and uploading when he is away.
Award was presented by R Vedavalli SK with a memento

Smt RV SK

Rasika Kainkarya Mani the award should be named as Sangeetha Rasika Kainkarya mani for the utter devotion of the soft spoken TVG on his project without expecting any returns.
She is not afraid of any body and any comments on her views.
She expressed her displeasure on uploading of concerts and students learning through CDs and online guidance.
To get expertise every Vidwan has taken years to learn under the able guidance of Guru.
Learning Music should be through Guru Mukham.
There is no technicality is required for listening Music. In other words Rasikas need not spend much time in knowing the theory of CM
For reproducing a sangati how much stain should be put in and only Guru can help.
Just enjoy music that will do. Rasikas need not worry about other aspects.
What ever gives peace to mind enjoy that music.
Which relieves mental strain that is Fine Art and Music.
GNB wanted her to join AIR but she did not like and refused the offer.
Shri Ranganathan ex MA secretary is related to TVG. He too was very soft and so TVG.
There was no controversy on the singing of ARI or Musiri. All enjoyed their music.

TVG's acceptance speech

Sangeetha Priya is instrumental for his present success of this assignment.
His grandson Rishab is learning music from Sumithra Vasudev prime disciple of RV.
He specially thanked Sreedharan, Sankaran and Balasubramanian for their active participation for his present project.

Vote of thanks by Balasubramanian

He expressed his sincere thanks to all rasikas and rasikas fraternity. There was a special mention of Rasikas. org also.


Samvada Interactive session with RV SK

Shri Narasimahan was interacting with series of doubts and clarification on CM performance and other few technical points related to CM

For these questions RV gave evasive reply without any remarks or commitment, clearly indicating her displeasure. Though the session scheduled for 2 hrs, ended suddenly to the discontent of the Rasikas who were 40 in numbers.

My observation

RV should not have accepted for this QA session when she is not convinced with the merit of this function. She mentioned every question raised needs several hours to explain and she is not for giving Demo today. Special thanks to the organizers for meticulously arranging this event. Only Known face was Shri CRama our forumite.
I would have omitted few important points and corrections are invited.

Thanjavooran
26 02 2017
Last edited by thanjavooran on 26 Feb 2017, 11:40, edited 1 time in total.

CRama
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Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by CRama »

Some more points mentioned by RV.
• Each of us, the vidwans/vidushis used to spend one year for learning and perfecting one kriti. It is simply not fair to access them by the click of one button and learn them. I am sure it is not possible to learn the nuances by simply listening to a recording. Gurumukham is necessary.
• It is good that Sangeethapriya has built a vast archives of Carnatic music. But it should not be freely disseminated.
• There is no need of writing any reviews. The person writing the review is only giving his opinion about the concert. Why it should be published. It is done to satisfy the ego of the writer. People will come to hear the concerts depending on the artistes- whether they like one particular school/artiste or not.
• Rasikas should only just enjoy the concert. No need to go into minute details- whether this phrase is correct for this ragam. What are the swara sthanams etc. These are not necessary for enjoyment of music.
• Authentic patantharam- What is authentic patantharam. Each musician will sing as what his Guru has taught him/her. In this context, how will you determine which is the authentic patantharam.
• Chittaswaram- Great vidwans like Tirukkodikaval Krishna Iyer, Karakudi Sambasiva Iyer have made the chittaswarams to Tyagaraja Kritis. They would have done it to make the concert interesting for the listners when the concerts used to be for four-five hours. There is nothing right or wrong in that. If your Guru has taught the chittaswaram, you sing it. Or leave it.
• Varnams- There was the practice of singing neravals and swarams for varnams. It can be done.
• Present day vidwans show lot of exhuberance in neraval and swarams even when the mood of the song do not attribute to that- No comments.
• Reg different raga lakshanams for same ragams under Tyagraja and Deekshitar schools- Yes. They are different. Both followed different sampradayams.
• Reg Bhairavi and Manji- Now there is no Bhairavi- Only Manji is being sung in the name of Bhairavi. But it will take a longer session to demonstrate them.

I did not stay till the end. I was happy that I could meet Thanjavooran and exchange pleasantries.

mahavishnu
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 21:56

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by mahavishnu »

Sincere congratulations to Sri TVG.

I am a bit disappointed with some of the views expressed by the senior Vidushi. Without informed rasikas, this art form (as any classical form of music) would be long extinct.

semmu86
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:39

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by semmu86 »

Quite exactly what I had in mind too! Agree fully with Ramesh. Somehow, I personally have always been apprehensive about all these "samvAda" face-face sessions. Either turns out that the questions are sometimes vague, irritating the musicians or the discussions would take a satirical route unfortunately.

And sincere congratulations to Sri TVG, for his great kainkaryam of sharing music.

CRama
Posts: 2939
Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by CRama »

With all adulations RV has got in this forum, her views on matters were very disappointing.

One more point she made- Instrumental music concerts should have only familiar songs. If rare songs are played, nobody will understand and enjoy the music. Further, neravals are superflous in instrumental music, as sahithya can not be heard.

Munirao had sent three questions which he had also forwarded to me. Those were not taken up for discussion.
Last edited by CRama on 26 Feb 2017, 14:17, edited 1 time in total.

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by Sachi_R »

There is some resemblance in the reported view here that rasikas should remain mainly listeners and not present reviews, to the somewhat angry point made by Sri H S Sudheendra in the RV concert I attended and reported about.. he pretty much mocked rasikas.org for offering reviews and criticisms without knowledge of musical intricacies.I have heard such a view from some other musicians also.

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic ... li#p308279

It seems CM is full of differences in styles, opinions, values, and mutual perceptions. We need to think this through. Why did the old sangeetham site get hacked? Why was this site hacked? There seems to be much animosity.

Also RV does not seem to have given an unconditional thumbs up to Sangeethapriya.org either.


🤔

Sivaramakrishnan
Posts: 1582
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 08:29

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

I couldn't attend the programme in person.

Going by the reports, it appears the 'much awaited' programme has not met its noble objectives.

I was given to understand that Sri Narasimhan (yessellen) had a collected some questions from interested rasikas for RV's perusal and discussion in the program. RV could have selected a few that would fit in the time-limit and given her views. Apparently this has not happened.

Rasikas are keen to hear doyens of RV's stature talking on the dos /don'ts of applied music.
In fact more events of the sort only would help to elevate the music appreciation level of rasikas.

And sincere congratulations if not humble pranaams to Sri TVG for his benevolence in enabling easy access of rasikas to music (especially when 'dedicated radio listening' has become a thing of the past. No radio receivers with Medium wave frequency are available in the market and Mobile phones have only FM facility!!)

****

Sri Tanjavooran, kindly continue your contributions which come 'straight out of your kind heart'.

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by Nick H »

There seems to have been a mismatch between the aims of the organisation and Smt Vedavalli's own views. Perhaps there should have been more communication and understanding before the event.

It seems that she was given a long list of questions collected from the public, but she was not aware that they were being collected.

Also, she is not well, and had cancelled her concert which was to be held today.

NB: I was not there, nor have I spoken to her for a couple of weeks.

sankark
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 09:10

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by sankark »

Simple really - one can like/love/be-in-awe of a musician's music but not be in sync with their views/thoughts.

Having said that, I sincerely wish she does a demo of the original mAnji and bhairavi, and make it available in YT/Vimeo/Sangeethapriya, or atleast as a private recording to the disciples of her school, so they can be resurrected. Even if not the songs themselves, in Alapanai/tAnam/swarams etc.

bhakthim dehi
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Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by bhakthim dehi »

Original lakshana of Bhairavi was beautifully explained by Sri Subbarama Deekshithar in his monumental work. Sri AMC preceded SD in saying the same. Probably Smt Vedavalli would have these references in her mind. As I have said elsewhere Bhairavi is dead and gone.

Sachi_R
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Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by Sachi_R »


mahavishnu
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Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by mahavishnu »

The more I think about this, the more I am troubled by the thought that a classical musician would want a rasika to be a "mere" listener.
There is a big difference between a fan and a rasika. A fan is adulatory and much of his/her musical experience is driven by basic emotions of enjoyment and superficial appreciation of the music itself.

Carnatic music is an art form where the listener experience is greatly elevated the more educated the listener is. I think it is important for seasoned musicians to educate their listeners and bring them along on their own musical journeys. Elevated listenership comes with a great need to understand not just dry music theory, but even practical elements such as the dharma of good performance and stagecraft. I think Carnatic music is too abstract and appreciation does not come easy without some training. It is probably one of the only musical forms where the line between the artiste and rasika can blur. Yes, not everyone can appreciate the complexities of Mudicondan's pallavi in simhanandana talam, but that does not mean that rasikas can't question how Bhairavi and Manji should be treated.

Sachi: While I think there are lots of rasikas.org haters out there, I don't think that has anything to do with the site being hacked or conspiratorial accounts of the motives behind it. This is just the reality of running anything on the internet these days.

For every musician that has expressed dislike for the proceedings on our forum (for good reason; there is no shortage of vitriol or just plain stupidity here), I have also heard many positive comments from musicians about some of the more scholarly discussions we have here.

All that said, this sounds like a huge misunderstanding between the invited guest of honor and the hosts of the event. Perhaps Sreedharan and/or others can clarify.

Sachi_R
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Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by Sachi_R »

I think Carnatic music is too abstract and appreciation does not come easy without some training. It is probably one of the only musical forms where the line between the artiste and rasika can blur.
Hear Hear!

Rasikas, especially "crazy" rasikas like me, love to discuss music and express all kinds of opinions. As I think I said elsewhere, as long as I am not cussed or mean or abusive, I think I have the right to speech. Often, musicians love to hear this kind of talk. The trouble comes only when they think I am barking up the wrong tree or that I am senselessly abusive and damaging to their career.

I heard this from a big rasika. GNB had confided in him during 1950's that a newspaper critic was doing much damage to GNB's reputation by drawing the readers' attention to his apaswaras and off-key notes that were creeping in of late. GNB said that such talk would erode his fan-base (most of whom wouldn't have picked up that apaswara singing on their own.)

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by Nick H »

mahavishnu wrote:I am troubled by the thought that a classical musician would want a rasika to be a "mere" listener.
I think you are reading too much into one event. She has done lots of lechdems, lots of lectures, as have her students, at least Sumathi and Sumithra. Plenty of education for the rasikas!

In a recent conversation, she has said to me that one does not need to understand the technicalities of music to be a rasika. She did not say that one should not try.
There is a big difference between a fan and a rasika
I speak from the fan side of the fence. Smt. RV said that I am a rasika because I know what is good. I'm not going to over-modest and deny that, because I have a certain confidence in myself about it anyway. It arises from a certain instinct and intuition, and has been honed by attending many, many concerts. But so far as technical understanding is concerned, there is no need for modest: I simply have very little.

mahavishnu
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 21:56

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by mahavishnu »

There is no need of writing any reviews. The person writing the review is only giving his opinion about the concert. Why it should be published. It is done to satisfy the ego of the writer. People will come to hear the concerts depending on the artistes- whether they like one particular school/artiste or not.
• Rasikas should only just enjoy the concert. No need to go into minute details- whether this phrase is correct for this ragam. What are the swara sthanams etc. These are not necessary for enjoyment of music.
Nick: I was only responding to these opinions, as reported here. I hold Smt RV in the highest esteem and I would be disappointed if she indeed believed the above mentioned views.

Re: the education of rasikas issue. I am sure that you are right. I have benefitted greatly from Smt RV's lecdems at MMA and other youtube videos. I do not see her as a person who would shy away from entertaining requests for knowledge or clarification from rasikas, which is why this was especially puzzling to me.

I am fine with the opinion that one does not need to understand all the technicalities to enjoy the music. But that is not to say that understanding these technicalities will in any way detract one from enjoying the music :)

Let's all carry on and do just that. Here is a lovely arabhi from her disciples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jBYkfbbOQs

Nick H
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Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by Nick H »

Indeed.

:D

Sachi_R
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Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by Sachi_R »

May I request Eesha and Sri TVG to upload a video of that talk of Smt RV? Or is it already up at S'priya?

eesha
Posts: 366
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Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by eesha »

I will upload it within 1 week.

rajeshnat
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Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by rajeshnat »

Sachi_R wrote: 26 Feb 2017, 13:28 Why did the old sangeetham site get hacked? Why was this site hacked? There seems to be much animosity.
Sachi
Sangeetham.com was really on and doing fine . Before the day the site was pulled there was a passing mention by V Sriram that he is not able to spend that much of time in sangeetham.com . If i recall right apart from sanjay and v sriram , I think there was a 7 or 8 member team and if I am right there was this company called broadgate technical services which was supporting the site. There was no hacking to the best of my knowledge , they pulled the site and kept a perennial message called site under maintenance . They used that time and They even went to the site archives and purposely destroyed and purged all the content .

Purposefully it was a case of deciding to burn the bridge after they crossed the bridge and none of us knew - betrayal at its best.

Site hacking in php based site is common ,when a one man army SRKris is restoring after it is hacked , can the 2 founders offer a simple explanation and restore it as read only site .

sureshvv
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Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by sureshvv »

mahavishnu wrote: 26 Feb 2017, 23:57 The more I think about this, the more I am troubled by the thought that a classical musician would want a rasika to be a "mere" listener.
There is a big difference between a fan and a rasika. A fan is adulatory and much of his/her musical experience is driven by basic emotions of enjoyment and superficial appreciation of the music itself.
What this tells me is that in spite of the Sangeetha Kalanidhi and The Doctorate in Music and all the other accolades that she has garnered over the years, she is still basically an artiste who puts herself in front of an audience and considers the "basic superficial emotion" of being moved by the music most supreme and validating.

You should try it sometime.

kvchellappa
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Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by kvchellappa »

This is what Sanjay has blogged on Sangeetham.com:
"Sangeetham.com was an exciting experience for me personally. It really helped to understand the Internet in a big way. I started out actually trying my hand at web design, scripting, coding etc etc. If I had actually continued on that I might have got a job at Satyam or the hundreds of other software companies! But I guess we were thinking far too much ahead and we had entered at a stage when web 1.0 was actually bombing big time. So it became increasingly impossible to continue as it did not make financial sense. That in a nutshell is what happened".
I see no reason to disbelieve it or expect that one would continue to dip into his pocket to run a show.

Sachi_R
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Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Face to Face with Smt RV SK

Post by Sachi_R »

Guys,
let's close this thread.
Flogging a dead rope indeed.

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