TM Krishna@nAdhasudhA(velachery) on June 23rd,2009

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 24 Jun 2009, 17:53

TM Krishna@nAdhasudhA(velachery) on June 23rd,2009
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Accompanied by amritha murAli - violin and K.ArunprakAsh - mrudangam

1.shree mahAgaNapathim bhajEham(S) - atAna -JCWodeyAr
2.lambOdara - kAmbhOji - mysore vAsudEvAcharyA
3. dhyanamE Varamaina (R)- dhanyAsi -T
alApanai for 7 mins and violin return for 4 mins

4. mAyE tvam yAhi (R,S)- tAraNgini - MD
5. aRuL seyya vEndum ayyA - rasikapriyA - Koteeshwara Iyer
6A. manasu swAdhInamaina(R N S T) - shankarAbharaNam - T
neraval in rAja rAjEsha niraNjana nirupama
alApanai for 17 mins , violin return for 8 mins, neraval for 6 mins and swaras for 7 mins
6B. tani for 9 mins

7. mahAdeva shiva sambhO - revati - Tanjore shankara Iyer
8. jAnarO (javAli not padam)- kamAs - Tanjore Chinniah not dharmapuri subbarAyar
9. tirupathi venkataramanA - sindhubhairavi - PD
10. mangalam kOsalendrAya - brief rAgamAliga in sindhubhairavi + vasantA +? + madhyamAvati

The concert was held near gurunanAk college in velachery. It was close to my work place and i got parking , to that extent this sabha held in a marriage hall was perfect. TMK's concert was from 06:35 to 8:50pm.

Pluses of concert:
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The start in atAnA with a crisp round of swaras was great.The KAmbOdhi was very good , he dwelt in a more madhyama KAlam and was well presented.The pick of the day was in his version a more authentic tArangini (infact he also explained for few minutes how different is this tArangini than the more often heard tukkadA mAyE). I liked his charged rendition with a round of swaras in tArangini. I also liked his rendition of rasikApriyA which was filler before main .

THe pick of the day was certainly shankArAbharanam alApana very detailed especially he dwelling on few mandarA stAyi phrases in alApanai was excellent to outstanding.One can safely say he is one of the finest shankArabharanam singers in the present generation .He also excelled a lot in the dhanyAsi alApanai kind of getting that tranquility was perfect.

The post main especially TSI's revati was rendered beautifully , I crave for this revati krithi incidentally the last time I heard in live was by trichur rAmachandran in tiruvAnmiyur , certainly the rendition was emotive and had the right thrust and lift of revati.The sindhubhairavi was also quite good.

Both the accompanist excelled, particularly amritha's dhanyAsi was top class.Incidentally arunprakAsh mridangam was very good in most of the krithis excepting one.There was a lot of thOppi usage that lifted the concert.

Fem minor shortcomings of concert:
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1. At times TMK does bring in lot of lung power but could bring in more sowkhyam. Towards the end in mel Kalam swaras in kAmbOdhi I heard it as too ballistic kAMbOdhi.

2.The neraval and swaras in main were censored perhaps he felt for this sabhA this would do, he could have dwelled it more, both neraval and swaras was not dwelled much in mEl kAlam and also was not adequate.

3. The kAmAs javAli was kind of too cryptic and stretched .When TMK stretches a lot , arunprakAsh decides to go in for bit of slumber or dharnA mode that kamAs rendition appeared bit mediocre .

Big distraction:
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The biggest distraction was TMK 's loud clapping during tani , he kind of intruded a lot ,the tAlam being rupakAm TMK had more loud sound . Would be nice if TMK keeps it to a minimum sound and not intrude tani that much.

Overall the concert was a short one ,I called the sabhA earlier he said TMK would sing possibly till 9 pm .THe concert was ticketed too , I paid 100 bucks , but TMK winding up in 2 hours and 15 minutes was a definite letdown.When concerts is advertised to start at 06:15pm why cant it go for 3 hours?

The concert was overall a very good to excellent concert.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 24 Jun 2009, 18:27

I agree with you , he is one of the best in sankarabaranam. Once when he was
singing the alapana in Odukathur mut in Blore, a lay rasika was so impressed and
got up and asked what is the raga? Though it became a bit emabarassment for the rasika later (not sure whether he realised) , we can understand that a lay rasika can enjoy through a main alapana of the artist which usually happens after lots of listening.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 24 Jun 2009, 20:46

bala747 wrote:"he kind of intruded a lot ,the tAlam being rupakAm TMK had more loud sound "

Minor quibbles but thani avarthanam should have been in Misra chapu and not Roopakam.

Padam singing is an art, and if not rendered properly can be torture to listen to. Full on open throated singing is the enemy of the padam, nowadays artistes seem to be intent on bringing paint down from the ceiling by voice power alone, wihch is good for other parts of the concerts and when delivering raga alapanas in major ragas but the more delicate ragas get butchered as a result.

Possible bAlA about the tAlam,it could have been mishrA chApu. I think you are meaning excess vocal power is enemy to the padam.Open throated may not be the enemy. TMK certainly did not sing the padam with full power but it was over stretched a bit, kind of gave me a feel of slOkham like at more places .

BTW just forgot to mention about another shortcoming,kAmbOdhi and shankarAbharanam in the same concert, could have been avoided for sure.

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 24 Jun 2009, 22:00

rajeshnat wrote:8. jAnarO (padam)- kamAs - dharmapuri subbarAyar

This is a very interesting song.. T. Viswanathan used to sing it on his flute..And he said it was by chinnaiah (of Tanjore quartette) However it is also listed in chellam Iyengar's book of puchi srinivas iyengAr's songs.. Where he calls it a jAvali..

gravikiran · Post by **gravikiran** » 24 Jun 2009, 22:02

jAnarO is a javali and not a padam.
i don't think dharmapuri subbarayar composed padams....

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 24 Jun 2009, 22:22

keerthi/gravikiran
Thanks , googled janarO kamAs in google to get the first few links as padam and subbarAyar. U are right changed the first post .

doyoucare · Post by **doyoucare** » 24 Jun 2009, 23:33

rajeshnat wrote:BTW just forgot to mention about another shortcoming,kAmbOdhi and shankarAbharanam in the same concert, could have been avoided for sure.

hmm...or perhaps the whole concert could have been avoided

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 25 Jun 2009, 12:56

Overall it was a good concert.TMK really gave his 100% in spite of the venue being Velachery.

His shankarabharanam was very good which was typical SSI style in singing in kizhkalam for good time and settling there.He stayed in R,G,M region for atleast 3-4 mins.

He said Tarangini should be sung as janyam of Charukesi with shudh.dhaivatham and the arohana & avarohana is:

SRGPDNDPDS & SDPGRSRGM

(G.Ravikiran,pl.correct me if I am wrong)

Arulseyya was sung bit faster which gave the feeling that TMK was playful with Muruga and not really praying him for his blessing..Another innovation may be !

The mangalam was sung in vasanta,varali,manirangu & shree.

Amritamurali played well.But may be if she can control her azuthamm here & there and bring in a bit of modulation in her bowing, it will be more pleasing to the ears of a lay man rasika like me.

Rajeshnat where is ur office? I live in Vijaynagar.

The ticket was Rs.50 only.I don't know how U ended up paying 100 !(rest may be donation from you!)

Rasika911 · Post by **Rasika911** » 25 Jun 2009, 14:04

Whats the deal with people timing an alapana and swarams eg 17 mins tmk 7 mins violin swarams 6 mins =P
Quality> Quantity

That being said tmk always sings brilliant alapanas. TMK die hard fan

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 25 Jun 2009, 18:52

ganeshkant wrote: Rajeshnat where is ur office? I live in Vijaynagar.
....
The ticket was Rs.50 only.I don't know how U ended up paying 100 !(rest may be donation from you!)

ganeshkant
My work place is in OMR. I came in at roughly 6:25 pm inside(concert started at 06:35pm) , I was told only 100 Rs is available.

In general few sabha organizers look at the crowd , they start with 50 when there is less crowd and then when there is enough crowd they just say only 100 is available. As such they did not tell me to sit more in the front to middle , so that kind of rules out the theory that 50 Rs ticket is full.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 25 Jun 2009, 18:57

Rasika911 wrote:Whats the deal with people timing an alapana and swarams eg 17 mins tmk 7 mins violin swarams 6 mins =P
Quality> Quantity

In majority cases Quality is directly proportional to quantity

. Of course there are few exceptions where there are cases where quantity drags and dilutes quality

Also it is usually a miracle to produce quality with very minimal quantity

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 25 Jun 2009, 19:49

rajeshnat wrote: In majority cases Quality is directly proportional to quantity . Of course there are few exceptions where there are cases where quantity drags and dilutes quality
Also it is usually a miracle to produce quality with very minimal quantity

Can't agree with this! I find v little correlation. In fact I attended one of those Mudra single-raga 4 hr concerts some years ago -- the artiste was TNS, no less. And it was awful. Somehow the artiste had to stretch each part of the RTP for 45-60 mins and it was really contrived.

Of course its easier to do justice to a major raga if one takes a little time over it -- I daresay a 15 minute kambodi would show more than a 5 minute one. But I've heard amazing short 5-10 minute raga sketches, from great artistes like Chitravina Ravikiran. Don't tell me it's miraculous!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Jun 2009, 20:20

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 25 Jun 2009, 22:23

Coolji, do you remember the 1 minute Mohanam clip [thought to be Viswanatha Iyer] you played for me at home? Mesmerising stuff

If you upload that maybe Rajeshnat might be convinced?

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 25 Jun 2009, 23:31

Listen to Narayarao Vyas singing a rAgamAlA on two 78 rpm records here:

http://ww.smashits.com/player/ra/ondema ... .asp?83150

gravikiran · Post by **gravikiran** » 26 Jun 2009, 18:06

let us not mix the two mela systems here.
tarangini IS the 26th raagaanga raaga in the older venkatamakhin system while charukeshi is the 26th melakarta ragam in the modern-day sampurna mela padhati.

calling tarangini a janyam of charukeshi would be mixing the two systems.

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 26 Jun 2009, 22:47

gravikiran wrote:let us not mix the two mela systems here.
tarangini IS the 26th raagaanga raaga in the older venkatamakhin system while charukeshi is the 26th melakarta ragam in the modern-day sampurna mela padhati.

calling tarangini a janyam of charukeshi would be mixing the two systems.

Not really,

The 'latest' lakSaNa grantha, the slightly dubious Sangraha cUDamaNi which gives the kanakAngi-ratnAngi set of ragas also lists each mEla from the VEnkaTamakhin scheme as a janya rAga of the corresponding 'sampUrNa' mEla.
The SC raga-lakSaNa-s rather closely conform to tyAgarAja's treatment.

It is another matter that the scale and swarUpa given in the SC may not match the raga swarUpa as we understand it from the SSP..

For instance, the SC gives a lakSaNa gIta for both mAnavatI and manOranjani;(in both of which thyagaraja has composed, evaritO nE and atukArAda). There is a MD krti in manOranjani too, (bAlambikE pAhi)

Now, the SC lakSaNa gIta-s will better describe the atukArAda species of manOranjani, than the bAlambikE version..

Point I am trying to make is, that it isn't really wrong to call a venkatamakhin mELa a janya of the respective krama sampUrNa meLa..

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 27 Jun 2009, 12:11

coolkarni wrote:
I had to go back to a 200 second Shudh Sarang by Basavaraj Rajaguru to validate this
He sketches everything I KNOW about the raga in this first 45 seconds !!!!!!

I remember this concert at AVM Rajeswari kalyana mandapam a few years ago, when one of the Hyderabad Bros. cleared his throat briefly and Kalyani jumped out instantly. The elderly gentleman sitting in the row in front (a regular who would bring his teenage daughter/grand-daughter along) remarked that identifying ragas is much like identifying people - sometimes you recognize someone close to you from a mile away with just a momentary glimpse.

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 27 Jun 2009, 16:06

rajesh- you are lucky to listen to few selected beauties from TMK The previous concert of TMK was at PS High School, Mylapore (Hindu carried a review). It was boring. He took Atana for 35 Minutes and lost his energy resulting in slowest Bairavi followed by Swara Jati.

He rendered a kriti on "Marga desi" raga and a kriti of MD. He also explained the structure of this raga.

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 27 Jun 2009, 18:50

GRS - I liked the PSHS concert a lot...in fact I was happy that the Bhairavi swarajati was not as slow as I had expected, having sat through slo.....wer numbers from TMK on earlier occasions. Loved his Bilahari RTP as well.

gravikiran · Post by **gravikiran** » 29 Jun 2009, 14:11

keerthi wrote:Not really,

The 'latest' lakSaNa grantha, the slightly dubious Sangraha cUDamaNi which gives the kanakAngi-ratnAngi set of ragas also lists each mEla from the VEnkaTamakhin scheme as a janya rAga of the corresponding 'sampUrNa' mEla.
The SC raga-lakSaNa-s rather closely conform to tyAgarAja's treatment.

It is another matter that the scale and swarUpa given in the SC may not match the raga swarUpa as we understand it from the SSP..

For instance, the SC gives a lakSaNa gIta for both mAnavatI and manOranjani;(in both of which thyagaraja has composed, evaritO nE and atukArAda). There is a MD krti in manOranjani too, (bAlambikE pAhi)

Now, the SC lakSaNa gIta-s will better describe the atukArAda species of manOranjani, than the bAlambikE version..

Point I am trying to make is, that it isn't really wrong to call a venkatamakhin mELa a janya of the respective krama sampUrNa meLa..

I disagree with you here.
In my opinion, and as you have rightly hinted, the dubious nature of the Sangraha Chudamani does not help make things better.
Since it is the 'latest' text, it conveniently pulls in ragas from the Venkatamakhin system and classifies it under its system.

Having said this, there is no known composition in tarangini under the Sampurana Mela system. By that I mean that there is no known composiiton in tarangini apart from that of Dikshitar's. Hence it is an exclusive Dikshitar/Venkatamakhin raagam.

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 30 Jun 2009, 10:48

srikant and i reached the venue as TMK was singing tarangiNi AlApanai and were told that only Rs. 100 tickets were available. we silently walked back.

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 30 Jun 2009, 13:05

gravikiran wrote:

In my opinion, and as you have rightly hinted, the dubious nature of the Sangraha Chudamani does not help make things better.
Since it is the 'latest' text, it conveniently pulls in ragas from the Venkatamakhin system and classifies it under its system.

Having said this, there is no known composition in tarangini under the Sampurana Mela system. By that I mean that there is no known composiiton in tarangini apart from that of Dikshitar's. Hence it is an exclusive Dikshitar/Venkatamakhin raagam.

1. does absence of a krti from the 'non' venkatamakhi school make a raga exclusively Dikshitar/Venkatamakhin..?

What then about all other raga-s.. Can/Do we call manoranjani, vegavahini, bhinnashadjam, vasantabhairavi,kiraNAvaLi, nabhOmaNi,jIvantikA etc janya-s of respective the Govinda mEla-s (only) because there is a composition of tyagarAja in them..?

2. sangraha-cUDAmaNI notwithstanding, the krama-sampUrNa nomenclature definitely existed in MD's time.. internal evidence for this can be found in his usage of the names like sUlini, hEmavati in the krti-s in rAga-s saila-desAkSi and dEsI simhAravam..

the dubiousity? of the SC extends only to the lakSaNa gitams in it, and not to the raga-s it enumerates..
It is more than likely that the two nomenclature schemes were contemporaneous..

I don't want to appear contrary or hair-splitting, but while tarangini the meLa is distinct from CharukESi the mELa, I feel it is technically not wrong to list tarangini the rAga as a janya of chArukEsi the rAga..

I make this argument merely on a technical basis.. I personally do not see much significance in the janaka-janya rigmarole.. No offense intended..

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 01 Jul 2009, 19:15

In majority cases Quality is directly proportional to quantity . Of course there are few exceptions where there are cases where quantity drags and dilutes quality
Also it is usually a miracle to produce quality with very minimal quantity

My late grandfather used to say that there was no way you can sing Shanmukhapriya badly. U Srinivas proved him wrong when I attended his concert sometime in the early 2000's. Close to an hour of the worst Sanmukhapriya I have EVER heard. I never thought it was possible to screw up Sanmukhapriya this badly till I heard a U Srinivas RTP in it. I don't mean to knock the guy in general, but that was an hour long rendition of what should have been confined to 3 minutes. Painful to listen to.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 04 Jul 2009, 11:25

bala747 wrote:
In majority cases Quality is directly proportional to quantity . Of course there are few exceptions where there are cases where quantity drags and dilutes quality
Also it is usually a miracle to produce quality with very minimal quantity
My late grandfather used to say that there was no way you can sing Shanmukhapriya badly. U Srinivas proved him wrong when I attended his concert sometime in the early 2000's. Close to an hour of the worst Sanmukhapriya I have EVER heard. I never thought it was possible to screw up Sanmukhapriya this badly till I heard a U Srinivas RTP in it. I don't mean to knock the guy in general, but that was an hour long rendition of what should have been confined to 3 minutes. Painful to listen to.

Bala,

Just to highlight that it could be a bad day for him....
I heard U Srinivas play an RTP in Shanmugapriya in Odukathur Mutt. It was definitely very good. And the pallavi was too good too.
I was keen to know what he played , but he didnot say it in words.

sunayanaa · Post by **sunayanaa** » 08 Jul 2009, 09:19

rajeshnat wrote:TM Krishna@nAdhasudhA(velachery) on June 23rd,2009
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Accompanied by amritha murAli - violin and K.ArunprakAsh - mrudangam

Good to hear that a female violonist got a chance.

Of late the trend is that preference is for male violonists. Even female main artists go for male violonist as accompaniment

Charumathi Raghuraman's view that female violonists do not have a career is violin should be seen with this background .

http://sports.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/ ... -music.htm

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 08 Jul 2009, 09:40

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 08 Jul 2009, 09:49

TMK usually performs with RKSK, because RKSK is RKSK.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Jul 2009, 10:29

I have heard TMK sing with Amruta on the violin. She played so well that evening (she always does). T. Rukmini's student and a vocalist too at that.
While Sriramkumar is a favorite accompanist of mine, I do feel that every able accompanist contributes to a concert differently and the mix and match of good singers and accompanists makes it an enjoyable experience. The chemistry of a concert changes then. Let us suppose that the same vocalist is accompanied by Nagaraj one day and Manjunath another day, both coming from the same source, the two concert experiences are totally different--assuming the singer isn't serving up the same fare. Vive la difference!
An accomplished accompanist, male or female can enhance a concert...

visaalam · Post by **visaalam** » 08 Jul 2009, 12:23

coolkarni wrote:I think we have to stop bringing this Male-Female issue to every subject under the sun.

There is definitely a valid point to what sunayana says. That trend is quite evident. Whether one wants to turn a blind eye to that is one's own prerogative

Another trend is to have a 2nd tier accompaniment. The reason behind is that main artists wants to maintain the "skills gap" between themselves and the accompaniment in order to project superiority in the eyes of rasikas.

Gone are the days when top ranking artists went for top ranking accompanying artists to form a top class team.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 08 Jul 2009, 12:40

Another trend is to have a 2nd tier accompaniment.

It's very easy to mention "trends", but difficult to name a few people. Do you mean to say RKSK, S Varadarajan or Amritha are "2nd tier accomapaniment"?

visaalam · Post by **visaalam** » 08 Jul 2009, 15:36

srikant1987 wrote:
Another trend is to have a 2nd tier accompaniment.
It's very easy to mention "trends", but difficult to name a few people. Do you mean to say RKSK, S Varadarajan or Amritha are "2nd tier accomapaniment"?

I don't want to get into naming artists and subsequent censorship by moderator.

Look around and you will see who the accompaniments are for top ranking artists of today in majority of the concerts.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Jul 2009, 21:50

I avoided saying anything about the gender of the accompanists and their being offered chances to play--mainly because it will divert the thread to arguments of gender bias.
I do feel that accompanists have to be matched to the level of the vocalists. Whether a star performer or a junior, if the skills are not more or less matched in the accompanists, the concert suffers. The worst scenario is when the violinist is up to the mark but for some personal reason or other, does not bother to play whole-heartedly. I feel sad when this happens. Unless the percusionists come to the rescue, such a concert suffers.

vpadmana · Post by **vpadmana** » 10 Nov 2009, 23:45

Removed