Dhrupad

Classical Music of North India
Post Reply
chithra
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Jun 2005, 22:56

Post by chithra »

Saw the mention of Dhrupad in Violin - Veena topic, and it reminded me of my quiet love affair with Dhrupad singing. The Gundecha brothers seem to be holding strong, and hopefully reviving a very lovely and scholarly muisc form. Has any one here heard their Dhrupad Bhajans? Most of the verse is from Rama Charitha Manas, and fabulously sung. I would like to hear others' comments.

Shri Kulkarni, would you be so kind as to share some Dhrupad Alaap, Bhajans with us in this forum? Thanks,

Chithra

BTW, why am I a Muyal Kutty? Arbitrary assignment?

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

Post by drshrikaanth »

chitra
dhrupad is indeed lovely to hear. Its stately and sedate pace is enchanting. It is full of bhakti unlike the khayAl which is SrngAra oriented usually. I have had the good fortune to hear dhrupad sung by the Dagars in Delhi. A very nice experiene indeed. It is of course played on the rudravINA too with phakAvaj accompaniment.
It is said that M dIkShitar was influenced by the dhrupad style of singing when he was in kASi(vAraNAsi); that this influenced him to choose a viLamba pace with lot of gamakas suffixing with a madhyamakAla sahitya (as the pace is increased in singing at the end in HM-even in khayAl).
One odd thing(at least initially which I have got used to and doesnt seem odd any more) is the way they split the words into meaningless bits/syllables and keep repeating them during bOltAns(like our neraval) until they arrive at the right point on the tALa.. Here it is only the landing on the right point on the tALa that matters. This is strictly prohibited in our music although many of our musicians are guilty of this usually due to not understanding the lyrics :D
I have noticed that they use long tALas in dhrupads ofte with 14 akSharas or evn double that(Im guessing it as something like 2kaLe). Would appreciate if someone can throw light on tALa aspects of dhrupad.

chithra
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Jun 2005, 22:56

Post by chithra »

Thank you both for your responses and the uploads. I am so glad to know of others who enjoy the stately Dhrupad.

Sri Kulkarni, if you have any Dhrupad Nam-Thom Alaap to spare and handy would you bring that up as well - this style of alaap is very different from typical Alaap in HM / CM. Very stylised and very difficult to do, I imagine. DRS, would you also comment on the Nom-Thom alaap, please?

Does it take longer to be accomplshed Dhrupad singer than a Khayal singer - requires a very different kind of training obviously.

I am absolutely enchanted by Dhrupad - its rigour, its depth, its stateliness, its serenity. It is singing from the Naabhi at its best!

BTW, I read somewhere Dhrupad actually arises from the term Dhruva padam - any comments?

Chithra

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

definitely yes.
though it may take some time for me to weed out the commercial stuff.

i will find the right opportunities to upload drsrikaanth and others keep this thread going with their responses.

krishnanunni
Posts: 2
Joined: 02 Nov 2005, 18:51

Post by krishnanunni »

yes..i recently had the opportunity to listen to the dhrupad renditions of
Gundecha brothers..

We had organised a session by them at NIT,Calicut as a programme by SPICMACAY .

It was my first exposure to this form of hindusthani music and we were all held spellbound by the Range and "Gaambheerya" in the voice of the brothers.

ramamrutham
Posts: 9
Joined: 28 Oct 2005, 23:47

Post by ramamrutham »

Dhrupad, Dhrupad, Dhrupad!!

Dagarvani, I started listening to rudra Veena of Zia Mohiuddin Dagar. Thanks to my sitarist friend, Prithvi. I was so much fascinated by dhrupad's similarity with CM. It is actually Tansen Pandey's music I have come to admire the most in dhrupad.

vrbadri
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Oct 2005, 03:45

Post by vrbadri »

I recently purchased a KAmbhOji Dhrupad by Senior Dagar brothers (Moinuddin and Alauddin). Although their KAmbhOji has very strong kalAvati (HM equivalent of VaLaji) flavour, it lacks the strong 'm g p d s' prayog of our well-known KAmbhOji. I did see Rajan parrikar'a description of KAmbhOji (which is prevalent today only in the DagarbANi). Samples of the above CD are also present in sawf (google saw kambhoji). Can anyone shed more light on HM KAmbhOji? (I have not yet fully listened to the CD to get an idea...:-( ). In my superficial listening, it did not sound anything like our kAmbhOji. However, the CD cover and Tood Mc Comb's page does describe the raga they sing as "KAmbhOji, a grand and ancient raga this is very prevalent in carnatic music but is rare in HM"....very curious to know HM's version. Any details?

Also, for those interested in purchasing Senior Dagar brothers, there is a rare collection of 6 Dhrupad CDs from the royal collection of MEvAR (costly though!!). They are in the foll. ragas:
1) MiyAM kI MalhAr
2) MEgh
3) PUriyA
4) BhAgyESrI
5) KAmbhOji
6) BhUpAli

The CDs are made available by "RAga records" (http://www.raga.com/).
The webpage also has a descriptive .pdf file on these great vidvAns/ustAds and about the CD (look at 220bookl.pdf). Interestingly, there is a composition called Dhamar in this CD. The description of a Dhamar seems to be similar to that of a Padam in CM. Any information???

The webpage also contains an unreleased, downloadable bhajan mp3 of Senior Dagar brothers in rAga Bhairavi (sindhu bhairavi) after a soul-stirring, meditative, saukhyam-laden alApana (go to www.ragarecords.com). The sAhitya for the bhajan seems to go like "Jagata janani sarasvatI SAradA VidyAdEvi dayAnI mAtA".

-badri.

venkas
Posts: 21
Joined: 05 Feb 2006, 11:29

Post by venkas »

I've couple of Dhrupad's by Gundecha Bros(charukesi and yaman). But I'm not sure whether they are commercially available. So, I'm resisting myself from posting the same. If anybody can confirm that it's not a commercially available one I can upload them.

vrbadri
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Oct 2005, 03:45

Post by vrbadri »

Venkas,
I just noticed that one of the royal mewar series (MiyAM ki malhAr) is available for listening in music india online!. The GuNDEchA bros. one that you are talking is, I think, commercially available. I wanted to buy that one this morning! I think it is the same as in

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000 ... oding=UTF8

Can you confirm?
-vrbadri.

vrbadri
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Oct 2005, 03:45

Post by vrbadri »

Sorry! Forgot to mention you can hear the whole album in Udbhava.com under the classical section.
-vrbadri.

venkas
Posts: 21
Joined: 05 Feb 2006, 11:29

Post by venkas »

It's the same and I've the Royal Mewar series also with me.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

been wondering why our dhrupad expert abadri is silent , for so long. !!

anyway here are a few more leads on dhrupad ..
1.If interested , i can upload home recordings of Dagar Bros or even concert recordings of Kashalkar and others ( so kindly offered by niraya .. i have requested him to participate in this forum.especially Since palghat Mani Iyer is his other big passion. )
2.Here is a recent mail by him (to me )
to participate in a sharing group.This is one of the best groups for people very seriously involved with Dhrupad..

""
We announce and describe our postings at the google group http://groups.google.com/group/sureelay and we are running our own tracker at http://sureelay.no-ip.org:6969/ .

Everybody is most welcome to vist and join.

Cordially

Niraya "

BTW .. whenever I used the expression Dagar Brothers , I always thought there could be say 4 or 5 Dagars ..
In a recent recent List that I received with these recordings I found that there were Eleven of them !!
;)

vrbadri
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Oct 2005, 03:45

Post by vrbadri »

Kulkarni saab,
Thanks you for the dhamar. Since I know zook about this ancient artform, any links/information/clips would be most welcome! As for the DagarbANi, the following link gives their family tree.

http://rapidshare.de/files/15557255/Dagar.bmp

Also, I "read" somewhere that SrI MuttusvAmi dIkShitar was an expert in this artform. Is that true?

Another question that I have in mind is regarding raga exposition via AlApana (unrelated to this thread, though!). Take for example a raga that is common between HM and CM...Hamsadhvani. For example, one can consider Kishori Amonkar's Haunsadhwani (found in Udbhava.com). It has an AlApana that starts nice and slow and warms the listener up as it goes by. I am not sure if the H. AlApana of Hamsadhvani will violate CM grammar. If it does not, then one must be able to expound the raga to the same depth/saukhya in CM? Is it the case? I always wondered why great Carnatic rAgAs (SankarAbharaNa, tODi, bhairavi and hundreds more....) cannot be given that treatment of an exposition of 30-45 mins unhurried AlApana? If it is possible, why is it so rare? I don't even know if this comparison is valid...let the experts comment......


Thanks,
vrbadri.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

vrbadri.
that hamsadhwani is a 72 minute beauty!
and i have seen hindusthani seniors marvel at kishori's capacity to sing hamsadhwani for so long without ever giving a feeling of repeating phrases.

But the questions you raise are still relevant.Last year I attended a concert of vageesh where he sang a magnificent Shudha Dhanyasi -at IIT -very elaborate and borrowing a lot from the Hinduthani Dhani .

Bagesri is another very apt example.HM artists sing it for 75 minutes.but in CM it just sung very lightly

abadri
Posts: 183
Joined: 08 Jun 2005, 00:04

Post by abadri »

been wondering why our dhrupad expert abadri is silent , for so long. !!
Kji, maybe that's because, in reality I'm far from being an expert ;)
I always wondered why great Carnatic rAgAs (SankarAbharaNa, tODi, bhairavi
and hundreds more....) cannot be given that treatment of an exposition of
30-45 mins unhurried AlApana? If it is possible, why is it so rare?
Of course it's possible. As proff we have the great GNB's RTPs in Thodi,
Bhairvai, Shanmukhapriya, Kambhoji, etc.

Why is it getting rarer? Don't know.. One reason could be that Kutcheri
durations are getting shorter, while artists still try to maintain the number
of pieces rendered.
However, there is hope for us here in North America :)
In the bay area I've heard detailed ragams when concerts are allowed
to go on for 3-4 hours.

abadri
Posts: 183
Joined: 08 Jun 2005, 00:04

Post by abadri »

For those looking for more dhrupad recordings

[D/L links for dhrupad tracks online deleted]

Goes without saying that the parent site http://sarangi.info
is a great treasure trove of HM recordings.

kartik
Posts: 226
Joined: 06 Feb 2010, 06:25

Post by kartik »

chitra,
since you asked for a nom-tom alap,there is a brilliant kedar alap by Faiyyaz Khan Saheb on sawf.org.Look for the Kedar section and listen to the clip,it is brilliant.

vrbadri
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Oct 2005, 03:45

Post by vrbadri »

Kulkarniji,
Its usually the other way around for me....Prolonged svaras, gentle caressing movement between svarAs during the AlApana tend to make me very calm and give a feeling of satisfaction that one searches so desperately! Then the energetic bhajan/dhrupad/dhamar with the enchanting pakhawaj is just the icing on the cake!

Taking note of abadri's suggestion (Thanks a million!), I went to saarangi.info and checked out the pUriya by elder Dagar brothers....mind-blowing stuff. At one point of time, he stands on a note so long and mentions that one can reproduce the sound of a Sankha (conch) vocally and does exactly that....amazing stuff...!!! That one is a must-listen!!! (might be the case for all of their renditions!)
BTW, I could download those songs.....but aren't they the part of the Mewar series...?? Is it legal for them to post these copies???

Also, is the earlier chandrakoSh the same as in the ragarecords.com webpage? (The filesizes do look to be almost the same....). Last but not the least, I thank you for
GauDasAraMga piece. As always, any more exciting pieces by anyone is more than welcome!

IS THERE ANY NICE ARTICLE/WEBPAGE PROVIDING GOOD INFO ON DHRUVAPADAS, DHAMARS, etc?

Thanks,
Badri.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

here is a nice track by TRS
TRS explains that this krithi was composed with dhrupad in mind

Chandrakauns .. i am not sure if it was the commercial bit.so i deleted it.Will check up on the other tracks before uploading.
thanks for alerting me

http://rapidshare.de/files/15696666/05- ... e-Desh.mp3

cmlover
Posts: 11498
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Post by cmlover »

Soooopurb!

Thanks coolkarni!

Do please post such gems on the interface of CM/HM!

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

At one point of time, he stands on a note so long and mentions that one can reproduce the sound of a Sankha (conch) vocally and does exactly that....amazing stuff...!!! That one is a must-listen!!!
I listened to some parts of it. It is very good. Can you point to the timeline for these things. I don't quite understand what he mentions. Thanks.

vrbadri
Posts: 64
Joined: 29 Oct 2005, 03:45

Post by vrbadri »

VasanthakOkilam,

First @14:30, he says how the folk version, classical version differ by singing the latter first and then the former. At 13:06 He says..."yeh SaGkh kI avAz hai" (This is the sound of a conch). He repeats a svara (with a bend) many times (chanting "Hari OM" and prolonging the "OM") and at 13:58-14:00, he emulates the SaMkha receiving instantaneous plaudits!!! And at around 14:15 he says "sAMs kO bahut U karkE gAna hai"....Don't know exactly what he means here...something like "mUcca piDicciNDu U-nu pADanum". At about 19:30, he says "Bhakti bhaMg karnE kE liyE,...gamak kA yahAM..." and says "tom-nom-na na dhirananana...". Can anyone tell me what is this technique that he is expounding in this rAga (at around 19:40)?


Kulkarniji,
I was not referring to your clips...I apologise for wording it in a confusing way. What I was referring to was the website Sarangi.info. Your clips are available for download from ragarecords.com (under Wasif-ud-dun Dagar section). There is no need to upload it again. People interested may download it from there...

Badri.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks Badri.

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

Post by drshrikaanth »

This is an interview of Bahawuddin Dagar after his performance in Chennai earlier this month. It is from the Hindu. Kulkarni, did you attend this concert?
Would appreciate if someone could post a few lines about this concert

http://www.thehindu.com/fr/2006/03/03/s ... 150300.htm

Suji Ram
Posts: 1529
Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 00:04

Post by Suji Ram »

Thanks DRS for posting the article. The last line is so wonderful!

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

DRS
Unfortunately I did not attend those concerts...

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

The interview provided for a very good reading. Thanks. Interesting observation on eliticism about good talent being retained for Dhrupad and the rest sent away to Khayal and Thumri schools. Sounds like the 'Baseball Farm league' or the cricket 'A' team ;)


P.S. The photo of Bahawuddin is by Mr. Thanthoni. I did not know that can be a name. I have heard it used as a word to deride kids who do not take direction from others or listen to other's advice. Right?

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

Post by drshrikaanth »

---P.S. The photo of Bahawuddin is by Mr. Thanthoni. I did not know that can be a name. I have heard it used as a word to deride kids who do not take direction from others or listen to other's advice. Right?
That is tAntOnRi.(tAn+ tOnRu+i)- born out of one self(No aid of others). It is a literal translation of swayambhU and could be considered as a name of Siva. swayambhU is used in conversational kannaDa at times to describe like you have described.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

DRS, thanks. I did not even have a clue to such a meaning. Makes much sense. Given the usage, it registered with me in a mildly negative connotation. Had I known this as a kid, I would have worn that title with pride ;) So, how will the swayambhU admonition be in Kannada? In tamil, the admonition at kids will be like 'ennadA tAnthOniyA thiriyarE' ( why are you walking around like a Thanthoni ).

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

Post by drshrikaanth »

-- Had I known this as a kid, I would have worn that title with pride ;) So, how will the swayambhU admonition be in Kannada? In tamil, the admonition at kids will be like 'ennadA tAnthOniyA thiriyarE' ( why are you walking around like a Thanthoni ).
LOL. In kannaDa we say "oLLe swayambU taraha ADtAne"( OH! He behaves like a swayambhU" or "tAnEnO swayambhU ankombiTTiddAne" (He thinks as if he is a swayambU, born of himself)

kaapi
Posts: 146
Joined: 05 Jun 2005, 14:32

Post by kaapi »

VK
I think it is similar to the custom of referring to not so intelligent people as Brihaspati.
That apart,
The article on the whole made a lot of sense. The process of selection should not be called elitist as aptitude and ability have to be recognised and nurtured in case of more serious art forms. Also his statement that a Dhrupad artiste matures only at 44 struck me as something that provides some insight into the art form itself.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

The process of selection should not be called elitist as aptitude and ability have to be recognised and nurtured in case of more serious art forms.
Though I saw the reasoning behind this on the first read, I wonder how they evaluate the aptitude/ability ahead of time to distinguish between Dhrupad vs Kayal material. I recently read that Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar was not really a great student when he was learning from Poochi Srinivasa Iyengar and that the latent greatness in him was not discernible at that time. ( An expression taking the opposite point of view to music teaching is: 'enda puttula enda pAmbu irukkumO' )

gokul
Posts: 2
Joined: 23 Mar 2007, 22:32

Post by gokul »

vrbadri wrote:Kulkarni saab,
Thanks you for the dhamar. Since I know zook about this ancient artform, any links/information/clips would be most welcome! As for the DagarbANi, the following link gives their family tree.

http://rapidshare.de/files/15557255/Dagar.bmp

Also, I "read" somewhere that SrI MuttusvAmi dIkShitar was an expert in this artform. Is that true?

Another question that I have in mind is regarding raga exposition via AlApana (unrelated to this thread, though!). Take for example a raga that is common between HM and CM...Hamsadhvani. For example, one can consider Kishori Amonkar's Haunsadhwani (found in Udbhava.com). It has an AlApana that starts nice and slow and warms the listener up as it goes by. I am not sure if the H. AlApana of Hamsadhvani will violate CM grammar. If it does not, then one must be able to expound the raga to the same depth/saukhya in CM? Is it the case? I always wondered why great Carnatic rAgAs (SankarAbharaNa, tODi, bhairavi and hundreds more....) cannot be given that treatment of an exposition of 30-45 mins unhurried AlApana? If it is possible, why is it so rare? I don't even know if this comparison is valid...let the experts comment......


Thanks,
vrbadri.

ksrimech
Posts: 1050
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:25

Post by ksrimech »

vrbadri wrote:Also, I "read" somewhere that SrI MuttusvAmi dIkShitar was an expert in this artform. Is that true?
Dr. V V Srivatsa mentions that the song purahara nandana in hamvIru is itself the standing example for it. he also demonstrated the drupad form of purahara nandana (pallavi alone) in the guruguhAnjali series in SrI kRSNa gAna sabhA in 2002.

martin
Posts: 68
Joined: 23 May 2008, 04:58

Post by martin »

Namaskaram to all readers here,
Seeing some interest in Dagarvani Dhrupad, I thought it would be appropriate to post a link to the website of a senior student of Dhrupad who has written some very interesting articles. He learned mostly with Ud. Fahimuddin.
In two separate periods I have enjoyed lessons from various senior students and from Ud. Sayeeduddin Dagar. Even if I would never pursue Dhrupad further, having been so involved has greatly stimulated the development of perceptive hearing.
Regarding Kamboji, when I was touring with Shreevidhya Chandramouli and TR Sundaresan, excellent musicians and persons!, we somehow got to talk about kamboji and I sang a few lines of alapa and the same composition that Moinuddin and Aminuddin sang on that beautiful recording and she mentioned that in Carnatic music the same name was in use and that there is a closeness between both versions.

Here's the link:
http://www.dhrupad.info/articles.htm
Last edited by martin on 22 Jul 2008, 03:34, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply