Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Classical Music of North India
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divakar
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Joined: 26 May 2005, 06:06

Post by divakar »

Meena
thank you for the sruti article.

rshankar
wonderful.. great work. thank you so much for the effort and time you put in.

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

You are welcome, Divakar! I enjoyed the interview - BGAK is so mesmerizing.

divakar
Posts: 197
Joined: 26 May 2005, 06:06

Post by divakar »

rshankar
i think it comes in the second part, he sings in a typical bengoli style. how well he demonstrates..!!

knandago2001
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09

Post by knandago2001 »

I read the translation of BGAK's interview with much interest - shankarji lagtaa hai aap bhi raisii khaandaan ke ho jo aapne unki zubaan hamari oar mehkaa diyaa... iske liye shukraan!! Asthayi (sthayi) refers to the section of the khayal that is rendered in the lower or middle range of the octave while antara is set to the upper range / tetrachord. In this context asthayi antare ka bharna likely refers to appropriate melodic improvisation during these stages of development of the khayal. With regard to "thumri ke ang", the purab style (originating from Banaras in UP) emphasizes narration of lyrics (bol banao - Thumri derives from "thumak" and is sometimes included in Kathak dance recitals for abhinaya). The bandish ka thumri on the other hand, resembles a chhota khayal. With regard to the "patiala" or "panjabi" ang, BGAK saheb gives us a sampling of "tirchi najariya ke baan" and also a delightful "ras ke bhare tore nain" in his interview. Khan saheb also mentions "kans swaron ka khel" and "suron ka lagaav" during raag vistaar. His recordings of allied ragas such as Darbari Kanhada (a poorvaanga pradhana raga) and Adana (an uttaranga pradhana raga) illustrate this aspect beautifully.
Meena: Thanks for the birth centenary feature on BGAK saheb from Sruti. Opinions may vary but I felt that the statement "Other than his recorded music, the BGAK legacy is negligible" was condescending. He was a great artiste who exemplified aesthetic refinement; a gifted composer with a catholicity of outlook unparalleled in his time - his compositions on "Himachalkumari" and "Har Mahadev" bear ample testimony - Suhaan Allah; a torch bearer of a glorious tradition that went on to nourish the talents of Munawwar Ali Khan Saheb and more recently Pandit Ajoy Chakraborty. That he gives Coolkarni, Divakar, Meena and Shankar so much to share with all of us is indeed BGAK saheb's lasting legacy.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

knanadago
You can look forward to some more rare tracks (long versions) of Yaman , Malkauns , Darbari and Adana.You must have missed a Video that was uploaded here , a few years ago.Will round up my part with that video , at the end.

knandago2001
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09

Post by knandago2001 »

Coolkarni Sir aap meherbaan ho main aapkaa aabhaari hoon. itna kuch sunne ko mil raha hai ki main to bilkul fida ho gaya... leejiye BGAK saab ke bhai Ustad Barkat Ali Khan ka gaya hua "ras ke bhare tore nain" aur "tum radhe bano shyam" suniye
http://www.badongo.com/file/2549393
http://www.badongo.com/file/2549394

drshrikaanth
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Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

Post by drshrikaanth »

knandago2001 wrote:main to bilkul fida ho gaya.
coolkarni sAb pE :rolleyes: :lol:

meena
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Joined: 21 May 2005, 13:57

Post by meena »

kji/divakar/knandago and shankar,
ur welcome, here's few more wonderful articles/ lovely tracks , incase u missed: DELETED

shankar
and THANKS again :)
Last edited by meena on 06 May 2008, 10:13, edited 1 time in total.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

knandago2001 wrote:I read the translation of BGAK's interview with much interest - shankarji lagtaa hai aap bhi raisii khaandaan ke ho jo aapne unki zubaan hamari oar mehkaa diyaa... iske liye shukraan!!
I am flattered! THANKS. But I have to say that sometimes it is way beyond my means to translate, because I am at a loss for words to communicate the beauty of some of khAn sa'ab's statements.
knandago2001 wrote:Asthayi (sthayi) refers to the section of the khayal that is rendered in the lower or middle range of the octave while antara is set to the upper range / tetrachord. In this context asthayi antare ka bharna likely refers to appropriate melodic improvisation during these stages of development of the khayal.
THANKS. I was hoping someone would explain that. He uses it repeatedly, esp. in part II of the interview.

Your explanation of the Thumri was excellent. Please continue to proof my translations, and add explanations where necessary. I am only translating the language; I do not have sufficient credentials to understand, let alone translate, the 'melody' that seems to be inherent to every breath (and not just in his music) of this great man.

arunk
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Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41

Post by arunk »

ravi - thanks. It allowed me to atleast relate a bit to the interview even though i understand 0% of the words :)

A question (to you and/or others): When he demonstrates singing in pure raga style vs thumri (i.e. "light" as per him), it seemed to me that the thumri style as demonstrated by him had a lot more "crooning" and perhaps extraneous ornamentations? Is this what he is referring to? I.e. go into unnecessary theatrics and thus making it contrived?

Of course not knowing what he is saying i dont know which is which and so apologies for any gross misunderstanding.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 24 Mar 2007, 01:37, edited 1 time in total.

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

First 10 minutes of Part II:
This part is very much conversation intense, and I may have missed pieces here and there - like I said, the beauty of the language is simply unrivalled, and so, parts may have been 'lost in translation' (in my opinion, the beauty of urdU may even rival Ms Johansson's undeniable charms!). Please feel free to correct any of the missed/mis-translated parts.

The track begins with the conclusion of the pahADI piece that was begun at the end of Part I.
BGAK: His voice (I presume he means his cacA) was so sweet. We can never forget the tune and how we lost ourselves in it. This tune is from punjAb.
US: Your gharAnA has made this 'yours'. You own it now!
BGAK: It was his to begin with, and today, my voice is his.
Other Male Voice: With a possible contribution from the land (zamIn) - (the influence of the culture of punjAb)
BGAK: Oh Yes! The connection to the land is definite and tangible, and is present in everyone and everywhere.
US: You have seen several generations of musicians, and have interacted with many stalwarts. Can you share those experiences with us, and highlight their personalities and the characteristics of their music?
BGAK: The stalwarts of the old! They do not make them like that anymore! When I think of them, my heart grows heavy. What can I say about them? With their rigorous practice they became emperors (bAdSA) of music, and whoever heard them was enslaved. If I have to tell you what set them apart, then it will be their ability to fill the sthAyi antari (see knanandago2001's explanation for this), the ability to sing the rAg correctly (this part was muffled, but I think he means 'at the correct time, in the right way), and training their voices and setting it perfectly to the tAnpurA (exacting Sruti alingment) - this is disappearing these days. They did not play fast and loose with the rAg or their devotion, or play to the audience (I think he means changing the pattern of the concert based on the kind/size of the audience). Whenever they sang, wherever they sang, they created a thing of beauty.
US: Can you mention the names of a few of these stars whose music is still fresh in your memory?
BGAK: My great-grandfather (pardAdA) ustAd khAn sAheb's (did not catch his name - I think he moved his face away from the mike) son, khAn sa'ab umrAo pAshA - he demonstrated the best technique to sing a khayAl - subhAn allAh - he was unique! khAn sAheb nazIr khAn murAdAbAdI - he was unrivalled. I found something unique in his singing. Then there were khAn sAheb allAhbandE khAn and nasIruddin khAn who were also wonderful. I loved their 'vilambat' singing. It stood out as vilambat unlike what I hear today. My teachers used to say that there are some rAgs that have everything and you can do anything with them. Then, there are some that are not that fulfilling or fun-filled (mazEdAr nahIn hai) . One such is cArukESi.
Other male voice: cArukESi is an rAg from South (India).
BGAK: The rAg can be from anyhwhere, North, East, West, or South - I am only concerned about the purity og the rAg. He sings the mUrchana of chArukESi to demo whay it is not a good rAg in his opinion. Can I tell you something funny? (this is not something I caught well - something about the gAndhAr in the kEs/hair of 4/cAr swars - and hence the name cArukEsi). Now the people from Madras have many rAgs. Some are undeniably great, while some are beyond my understanding. I will not call that bad!
US: Everyone has their own way of doing things.
BGAK: I prefer rAgs where the swars in the phrases are well distributed. He demos a particular phrases with couplet swaras to show why it'd be unbalanced and difficult to sing.
(He talks about vAdi and samvAdi swaras. He says the swaras have to compliment and 'help' each other.)
BGAK: Let is take tODi for example - it has beautifully balanced swar pairs (jOD) - samvAdi sur. If we miss some of the swars it will not sound so good! Now, this is what I have heard from my forefathers and learned/learnt from my own observations: rAgs where these kind of swar JOD can be made are the best. Now many people may not agree with me, and I say this hesitantly: Our elders made music and so do we - I just feel bad when our music doesn't match up to theirs. Examples are new rAgs like mArwA (? no samvAdI swar), pUriya, sOhni, kIrvAni, jOnpuri...
Other male voice: I am sure you did not hear these when you were young.
BGAK: I have not heard cArukEsi or kIrvAni when I was younger. But nowadays, people want to hear/sing some new rAg. I was taught a few rAgs and told to practice and get better in singing them. Now, I have grown old practicing those, and I will continue to polish them until my dying day. Our elders have chosen 15 - 20 rAgs that are beautiful and complete and have everything to offer. There are only 7 surs, what more can you do with them?
US: In your opinion, what will the fate of our classical music and do you think of the efforts to keep it alive.
BGAK: Music has changed with time and will continue to do so. But one great thing is that this art form (kalA) has come into it's own now. In the olden days, people were not that into music (gAnA bajAnA), but nowadays they are very much into it - and I feel excited (like I have just come into this field). But I have to ask myslef this: Of the thousands that come to concerts these days, how many are truly knowledgeable? In the past the rAjA/nawAb/tAluqdAr etc used to be in the audience and there were probably 20-30 people in the audience, but they were connoissseurs. These patrons were the ones who were responsible for keeping the artform alive. To get a token of appreciation from them (a 'wAh wAh') was almost impossible - more difficult that even getting paid for the concert!

OTHER PARTS TO FOLLOW.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

arunk wrote:A question (to you and/or others): When he demonstrates singing in pure raga style vs thumri (i.e. "light" as per him), it seemed to me that the thumri style as demonstrated by him had a lot more "crooning" and perhaps extraneous ornamentations? Is this what he is referring to? I.e. go into unnecessary theatrics and thus making it contrived?
Arun
Arun, I think that is exactly what he means. He calls a Thumri light, but then says that it is hard to sing a little bit later. So, if something is light, but hard to sing, then I wonder what something that is heavy (like a khayAl) will be - impossible?

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

BTW, I wonder what BGAK would have to say to BMK - the inventor of rAgas with 3 and 4 swars!

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

There is a Darbari that I am working upon now , where Bade laments
People say - I am a thumri singer - as is there not a world of difference between the two ?
And sings the Thumri bit in Darbari first

http://www.badongo.com/file/2554722

And then when he takes up the Khayal bit in Darbari- It is like a storm gathering on the horizon...

More later.

divakar
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Post by divakar »

edited
Last edited by divakar on 25 Mar 2007, 18:22, edited 1 time in total.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

rshankar wrote:Can I tell you something funny? (this is not something I caught well - something about the gAndhAr in the kEs/hair of 4/cAr swars - and hence the name cArukEsi).
He says- of the 5 swaras(R,G,M,D,N), all except gAndhAra are as in jOnpuri. ANd that they all form vAdi-samvAdi pairs except gAndhAra which stands as the odd man out. Hence the other 4 (cArO~n) got together and filed a case against gAndhAra and hence the name cArukESi :)

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

Ah...thanks DRS! Knowing the language without the music part is a real handicap to translate these conversations.
BTW, What do you think of his opinion on the 'newer' rAgs?

arunk
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Post by arunk »

thanks ravi.

Arun

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »


knandago2001
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Post by knandago2001 »

Both, BGAK's uncle Ustad Kale Khan and his father Ustad Ali Baksh received extensive taalim from Ustad Fateh Ali. While BGAK spent his formative years under the wing of Kale Khan saheb, he was equally anxious to know of his father's assessment of his music. Apparently, he used to ask "Abba ab kaisi hai meri haalat?" The initial feedback "betaa jiske paas sur nahin hai, uske paas kuch bhi nahin" spurred BGAK on to more rigorous riyaaz... After this happened several times, Ali Baksh remarked "haan betaa, kuchh to achha hua hai, lekin Fateh Ali Khan Saheb ki nazdeek abhi tak bilkul nahin pahuncha!" These excerpts are taken from seminar proceedings at the ITC-SRA.

knandago2001
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Post by knandago2001 »

After listening to BGAK saheb's Darbari, I could not help wondering why this grand raga is given "light" treatment in CM. I know only two compositions (Ninadati chandana - an ashtapadi; Govardhana giri - a tarangam) in this raga. Would love to hear more from all of you in this regard.

padren68
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Post by padren68 »

removed
Last edited by padren68 on 27 Mar 2007, 07:55, edited 1 time in total.

divakar
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Post by divakar »

Kji
wonderful Darbari Kanada. another lec-dem.. very nice.
thank you.

oh! i forgot ..
the clip ends with some more to come. is that all or is there a continuation in the next clip ? just curious.
Last edited by divakar on 26 Mar 2007, 10:08, edited 1 time in total.

meena
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Post by meena »

padrenji

any more from this awesome '88 conc?

divakar
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Joined: 26 May 2005, 06:06

Post by divakar »

padrenji

super!!
just finished listening.
Last edited by divakar on 27 Mar 2007, 07:49, edited 1 time in total.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

divakar
These are random tracks that I recd on some very old forgotten tapes.Really cannot relate them to specific concerts.But Yes, I will be putting up all the stuff slowly.

divakar
Posts: 197
Joined: 26 May 2005, 06:06

Post by divakar »

oh no! i just asked. i know they are random and it takes time to relate them.
really, they are wonderful. and you are quick in sharing. you know its value more than me.
i'm already d/l the mdr-pazhani bit. thanks a lot.

raju19
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 May 2007, 03:55

Post by raju19 »

I will really be grateful if someone can resend Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khansaheb's Miyan Ki Malhar. The link specified on SendSpace has expired or the file has been deleted.

Thanks,
Raju

raju19
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 May 2007, 03:55

Post by raju19 »

Also can someone tell me how to download files from RogePost. There are so many beautiful clips that Mr. Coolkarni has placed on RogePost which I would like to listen to.

Thanks,
Raju

jayaram
Posts: 1317
Joined: 30 Jun 2006, 03:08

Post by jayaram »

Raju, not sure what you are asking. For all these sites, there will be a 'Download' icon which you need to click. If it's missing, then it must be because the uploaded file is dated, hence has been deleted.

raju19
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 May 2007, 03:55

Post by raju19 »

Thank you for your response Mr. Jayram. I will appreciate if someone can re load the deleted files especially on RogePost since it seems that all files have been deleted. Also some files on SendSpace have been deleted (I am especially interested in Bade Ghulam Ali Khan's Miyan Ki Malhar).

Thanks,
Raju

deba_74
Posts: 1
Joined: 16 May 2007, 21:47

Post by deba_74 »

Respected Coolkarni Saab, I am a new member in this community. My regards to all my elders. And my thanks to all of u for posting such good materials on Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan Sahab. Sir, it would be very kind on your part to upload the Miyan Ki Malhar by Ustadji (in Sendspace) once again. The particular file has expired. Thanks.

karkenhalli
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009, 17:39

Post by karkenhalli »

Non-Commercial Recordings of BGK.

Kamod - http://www.mediafire.com/?0x3mxdjfz2z

Chhayanat - http://www.mediafire.com/?0dcbzdexctx

Gunkali (Different from All India Radio Archival Release) - http://www.mediafire.com/?cz4limjocn4

mankuthimma
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by mankuthimma »

http://www.mediafire.com/?wrp7xm9rb8ycxcf

Settle down to a great weekend with a Genius

fduddy
Posts: 243
Joined: 07 Jun 2010, 18:16

Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by fduddy »

mankuthimma wrote:http://www.mediafire.com/?wrp7xm9rb8ycxcf

Settle down to a great weekend with a Genius
The weekend is too short ;)

venkatakailasam
Posts: 4170
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 19:16

Re:

Post by venkatakailasam »

mehfil wrote:A rare old video (stream) of Ustadh Bade Ghulam Ali Khan Saheb:
http://mehfiltube.magnify.net/item/9QLVB47RKXH5S842

You can listen to Khansaheb's favorite bhajan in Raag Pahadi.A beautiful composition and perfect rendering!
Hari Om Tatsat Hari Om at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB5sYNmzrb4

'He sings as if he is the male embodiment of Goddess Saraswati, and though a Muslim, he renders a Hindu devotional hymn without any sectarian pull. Others lecture about inter-faith
goodwill. He and other musicians like him LIVED that spirit.'

venkatakailasam

mankuthimma
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by mankuthimma »

he renders a Hindu devotional hymn without any sectarian pull. Others lecture about inter-faith
He has gone ahead further .
Show me a single track where he is singing in praise of a Non-Hindu God . Something even as simple as Allah Tero Naam.
A rare case of someone making a difficult choice to choose India , after Partition.
He was asecular if such a term exists - like amoral which is neither moral nor immoral.

venkatakailasam
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Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 19:16

Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by venkatakailasam »

While Ustad has rendered Hari Om Tatsat Hari Om ,

here is a link where Pandit Jasraj rendering 'Mero Allah meherban'

at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeT1H80tfP0 in raag Bhairav .

Natural secularism exist in the field of music.

venkatakailasam

fduddy
Posts: 243
Joined: 07 Jun 2010, 18:16

Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by fduddy »

Ustad Ghulam Mustafa Khan (Sonu Nigam's guru) and Parween Sultana who come to mind rendering beautiful songs on Ganesha and Saraswathi.

mankuthimma
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by mankuthimma »

Parveens husband (and Guru in later years) -Mohd Dishad Khan- Is a Hindu by birth. Not a Muslim.

DrKashyap
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Joined: 24 Mar 2008, 08:10

Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by DrKashyap »

Very true, he was some --- Dasgupta, a bengali chap, a high post naval engineer before he became M. dilshad khan, a full time into music.

mankuthimma
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by mankuthimma »

Brother of Budd Deb DasGupta , Sarod Maestro . I was told.

gobilalitha
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by gobilalitha »

Another example of a secular minded Muslim is legendary Mohd Rafi. gobilalitha

smala
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by smala »

There are so many such secular musicians - too many to list.

A few examples Ustad Ali Akbar Khan, his son, Ashish Khan (now back converted into Hindu), Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, married to Bharatantyam dancer Subhalakshmi.....

mankuthimma
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by mankuthimma »

And Allauddin Khan ?
Who rechristened his daughter as Annapurna Devi .
More recently , Kaushiki Chakraborthy becoming Kaushiki Desikan - I can imagine the Scenes - of her serving Fish Fry to to some surpised in laws. :P

fduddy
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by fduddy »

gobilalitha wrote:Another example of a secular minded Muslim is legendary Mohd Rafi. gobilalitha
How did I forget his immortal songs in baiju Bawra.

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by mankuthimma »

Your probably got lost.
In your search for Hari's Darushan, today.
Which, your mind had been pining for . :lol:

DrKashyap
Posts: 28
Joined: 24 Mar 2008, 08:10

Re: First 78 rpm of BGA

Post by DrKashyap »

At last....U. BADE GULAM ALI'S FIRST 78 RPM RECORD FEATURING MARVA & SURSARANG. (Jein O Phone JP 751)
mediafire links

SURSARANG - http://www.mediafire.com/?8lh0koqt3a7r4ca

MARVA - http://www.mediafire.com/?qtvrys0rg2iy3uv

Enjoy !! -Dr. Kashyap (drkashyapdave@gmail.com)

Pratyaksham Bala
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

From the second 78 RPM record :
Raga Multani
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcmksUWjB3U

varsha
Posts: 1978
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Post by varsha »

Thanks
breathtaking

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