indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Classical Dance forms & related music
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rasikapriya21
Posts: 136
Joined: 02 May 2006, 00:27

Post by rasikapriya21 »

Namaste,

I am trying to create a dance notation system that could be accessible to students and teachers alike, with the aim to keep a record of choreographies and expand the potential of dance analysis.
Western dancers have a choice over several dance notation systems , among which the most commonly used is perhaps labanotation. On the other hand I am not aware of any notation system available to indian dancers/practitioners. While I would agree on the fact that such tools were not necessary in the context of the guru-shisha-parampara, I feel that today they would be extremly helpful to the "international community" of indian dancers .

I know that Padma Subramanya has devised a system of adavus notation, which is largely informed by her research on karanas. Is any of you aware of any other attempt made in this direction ?
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated,
regards
rasikapriya21

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

Rasikapriya,
I know of Dr. PS's attempt. My daughter's teacher uses stick figures and descriptions that are not very user friendly. According to my wife who learnt bharatanatyam many years ago, Dr. PS's notations are 'brilliant' and she loves them...by that she means, even those that are not from her style of dancing can follow the movements. The caveat apparently is that the initial learning curve to understand the notations has to be fairly steep, otherwise there is a good chance of getting frustrated.
I have also seen a book by the US based dancer Ms. Ratna Kumar - she has a set of notated aDavus in it.
Mohan may know of more.
There is always room for new, user friendly attempts at notations.
GOOD LUCK!
Ravi

vasanthakokilam
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

I am fascinated by the very concept of notating a visual medium like Dance. Can you give an example of what the notation is like?

I should wait for your comments before offering my half-baked thoughts..but here are some off-the-top-of-my-head ramblings.
For documentation purposes, would a still frame animation do the trick? Or even better, a full 360 virtual reality simulation based on photographs ( like they do in real estate listings these days ) might be useful. When Ravi said 'stick figures', these ideas popped up.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

VK,
You should see Dr. PS's notations. My wife pulls down a book when ever my daughter has a question about some of her new steps.... they mean nothing to me - but my wife just looks through them once and an 'AHA' expression comes across her face and she then demonstrates the 'correct' step to our daughter even if her steps are actually very different from the one that PS notated. I hope I am making sense...
So, it can be done. There are no stick figures in her notations as far as I can remember...but the stick figures are actually very comical.
Ravi

meena
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Joined: 21 May 2005, 13:57

Post by meena »

'stick figures' is what i used.

So did my daughters teacher BUT my daughter she had her own 'system' which she found was simple and easy to follow. I could not follow or did it make sense to me.

shankar/ RP
Dr. PS notations i'm not aware, is it available on the net?

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

Meena,
I have no idea...my wife has a book that she refers to.
Ravi

rasikapriya21
Posts: 136
Joined: 02 May 2006, 00:27

Post by rasikapriya21 »

vasanthakokila wrote:
or documentation purposes, would a still frame animation do the trick? Or even better, a full 360 virtual reality simulation based on photographs ( like they do in real estate listings these days ) might be useful.

Actually animation programs for dance notation have been created ; however the most commonly used one - the labanotation stystem - is very abstract and its symbols/drawings do not resemble the human body figure at all. Possibly something similar to animated stick figures would do the job at least in the case of bharatanatyam, which is an extremely codified technique [ a bit like ballet ]. The problem in this case would be the loss of details such as the eye-glances or neck movements that come with the adavu. The notation of movement in relation to rhythm and tala remains an issue for those who are not familiar with music and nattuvangam ;
but this rises the question as whether or not some knowledge of music is to be expected from a dancer.
As for abhinaya, one can always refer to the abhinaya dharpana etc. The main disadvantage here is that if new gestures were to be created/notated they could not possibly be included along the same lines of such authorithative treatises. So.. it seems is going to be a difficult task!
Ravi: could you kindly post the details of PS's publication? I might find
some inspiration ..
thank you all for the contribuitions,
rasikapriya21

Umesh
Posts: 361
Joined: 04 Jun 2006, 12:59

Post by Umesh »

Hmph! I am curious about these notations. I myself am a student of Paddukka's senior disciple and we do not use any special notation nor were we told one existed. I flipped through Paddukka's Bharata Kalai Kottpadu but couldn't find anything. Of course, it's all in Thamizh, which I cannot read... so that may be the problem! She's coming out with an English version very shortly, so maybe I'll be able to figure it out.

Thanks all for englightening me.

vasanthakokilam
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Actually animation programs for dance notation have been created ; however the most commonly used one - the labanotation stystem - is very abstract and its symbols/drawings do not resemble the human body figure at all. Possibly something similar to animated stick figures would do the job at least in the case of bharatanatyam, which is an extremely codified technique
Thinking this thru a bit further from the technology point of view, if the documentation system needs resemblance to the human body figure, then a virtual reality program based on actual photographs or video would be beneficial. For each specific 'atom' to be codified, say a few seconds long, you should be able to freeze frame it and with the mouse, go around the dancer 360 degrees to get all aspects: the eye-glances, neck movements etc.

Not that I am volunteering to write one but there are VR tools that help one put together such a catalog.

nrityam
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Post by nrityam »

What is the name of this book on dance notation??

Umesh
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Post by Umesh »

Since my last post, I've read through the book with Paddukka's notation system in it... it is called "Bharata Natyam" by Sunil Kothari and has a picture of Malavika Sarukkai on the cover and Alarmel Valli on the back (in the newer edition).

Ravi, I agree with your wife... I find the notation really useful. Pity that I was never taught it in bharatanrityam class!

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

Umesh,
Thanks for posting that info...I was waiting to go home and ask my wife about the book...you saved me the trouble. I think Dr. PS has written a chapter in there on notation if I remember...
Ravi

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

Mary,
If anyone asks for it, please do share it with them.

Deepa Bhat
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Post by Deepa Bhat »

pls can u send this to my id deepa.pudina@gmail.com, it vl b of great hlp

kzivraj
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008, 19:41

Post by kzivraj »

Dear Mary,

may i also have a copy of the dance notations please? Could you please send it to kzivraj@gmail.com.

Thank you so much!

:)

prathibha.ramaswamy
Posts: 37
Joined: 29 Oct 2008, 11:26

Post by prathibha.ramaswamy »

It would be great help if you could mail it across to me- prathibha.ramaswamy@gmail.com. Thanx in advance

ardhanariswar
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Joined: 01 Apr 2008, 22:36

Post by ardhanariswar »

me too! rsp588@gmail.com thanks!

madhan
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Post by madhan »

me too.. PLEASE!! madhandagr8@gmail.com! PLEASE :D

janaki_rajan
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Joined: 03 Mar 2006, 00:07

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by janaki_rajan »

Can you please send it to janaki_rajan@hotmail.com? Thanks!

VK RAMAN
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:29

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by VK RAMAN »

All the posts not in chronological order

dancingSonali
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Joined: 25 Mar 2008, 18:50

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by dancingSonali »

Hello, Please also send me one if possible to :
dancingSonali@earthlink.net
Thank you,
Sonali Skandan

natyasri
Posts: 315
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:05

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by natyasri »

one for me too, by anyone who received it - mallikajobs@yahoo.com. will be grateful. thanks

NrutyaNatya
Posts: 6
Joined: 05 Mar 2010, 20:45

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by NrutyaNatya »

Hi Mary,

Can you send it to my email id NrutyaNatya@gmail.com will much appreciate it. Thanks

sou2
Posts: 23
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 21:52

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by sou2 »

Hi,

Can you pls. send it to me also. My id is sujkrithi@yahoo.com

I look forward to your mail.

thanks in advance.

sou2
Posts: 23
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 21:52

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by sou2 »

Hi,

I had requested for a copy of the dance notations, but did not receive it. Can anybody send me a copy pls.

thanks.

parimalphadke
Posts: 138
Joined: 25 Jan 2008, 21:07

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by parimalphadke »

Hello Rasikapriya,

The system followed by Guru Dr Sucheta Chapekar is one of the easiest and practical ones. Her Guru Parvati Kumar, he came out with both tala and dance notation . During my Masters in Dance at UNiv of Pune , I learnt the notation system from her . The tala notation is just what is needed for the jathis ( especially to understand the relation between the aksaram-s and choreography) . You could contact her at suchetachapekar@hotmail.com

Regards.

parimalphadke
Posts: 138
Joined: 25 Jan 2008, 21:07

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by parimalphadke »

To some extent the notation system is given in the Marathi book "Tanajavur Nrutya Prabandha " , which is about the Bharatanatyam Maratahi Compostition during the reign of Serfoji II @Tanjore. The book is available in Mumbai , you could contact Sandhya Purecha his senior disciple for the publication.

bharg.p
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009, 14:37

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by bharg.p »

@mary

Could u please the article u had abt dance notations to me also..
ill be grateful
my email id is bharg.p@gmail.com

Thanks in advance,
Bhargavi

ksl
Posts: 299
Joined: 01 Jul 2008, 08:09

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by ksl »

http://www.youtube.com/user/pratyagatch ... qxYRyvLv3Q

does anyone use notations like this for their pure dance pieces?

KSDD
Posts: 35
Joined: 24 Dec 2008, 18:15

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by KSDD »

Namaskar dear Rasikas...
I have both the book and the scanned version in CD-Rom, which can be found for sale here http://www.matchless-gifts.com/store/pr ... 2dRom.html
It´s the digitalized version of the book, and can be seen on Acrobat Reader. And also much cheaper, since the book is out of print. I have bought many other products in this site and find to be pretty reliable.
P.S. i am no way related to the Matchless Gifts site.

parimalphadke
Posts: 138
Joined: 25 Jan 2008, 21:07

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by parimalphadke »

@ Ksl

We do follow this kind of notation , infact we also show offbeats within those aksharam-s too....which is not given in the youtube video

Rohini
Posts: 7
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 10:58

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by Rohini »

Hi there,

I am not sure how late this is, but if you do see this post please send me a copy if possible. My email is moneesha.kamani@gmail.com

Best wishes,

Moneesha

saray
Posts: 4
Joined: 27 Jun 2010, 22:38

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by saray »

This is interesting!!!!!!
Can u also send me a copy???
My id sayali_ranade@rediffmail.com
awaiting your mail
thank you

Sivasakthi
Posts: 6
Joined: 29 Mar 2015, 12:29

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by Sivasakthi »

I know its a very late request but if any of u hv it please please sent it to my mail I'd Jaya.dfa@gmail. com thank u very much. please do send me rasikas...

umasankara
Posts: 12
Joined: 21 Jan 2017, 05:27

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by umasankara »

I am looking to convert adavus into some form of graphical notation that is easy to use and understand. Benesh notation seems to be difficult. Not going with stick figures - something in between. I am curious to learn what Dr Sucheta Chapekar or Dr Padma Subramaniam used. Whoever received a copy, please send it to my gmail id (same as my username).

Lakshman
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Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by Lakshman »

I have a book titled Sangeetham and Nritya Padam (Saraswati Mahal, Tanjavur Publication) which contains Marathi compositions - 23 varNAs, 16 svarajatis, 61 padas, 6 tillANAs, 1 tAlATTu, 2 tAmbUla bhEda, 3 mangaLAs and 2 mangaLASTakas. The text and notations are given in dEvanAgari and Tamil scripts.

joel.riou
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Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by joel.riou »

umasankara wrote: 28 Jan 2017, 05:23 I am looking to convert adavus into some form of graphical notation that is easy to use and understand. Benesh notation seems to be difficult. Not going with stick figures - something in between. I am curious to learn what Dr Sucheta Chapekar or Dr Padma Subramaniam used. Whoever received a copy, please send it to my gmail id (same as my username).
There might be some misunderstandings about what exactly is "dance notation" when it is applied to bharatanatyam. There are actually two (related) subjects:

1) Notation of the rhythm. We want to write the rhythm of the steps in relation to the music (i.e. how it relates to the rhythmic cycle and to the syllabes, swaras or sahitya that are recited or sung by the nattuvanar or the vocalist).

2) Notation of the movement itself. Which foot do we stamp, what is the exact movement of a certain hand, which mudras are we using, etc.

1) It seems that the notation devised by Acharya Parvati Kumar that Parimal Phadke refers fits into Notation of the rhythm. It happens that my professor in Paris is a disciple of Sucheta Chapekar and that I had several occasions to learn directly from Sucheta-tai in Pune, then I have seen examples of such notations. This is basically a table of as many columns as there are beats in the tala, and each column is subdivided into as many subdivisions as we need. On one line, one can write the sahitya (or swaras or shollus) and on the other line, we may write dance bols (like "ta tai ta ha..."). Then, we see how the footwork relates to the rhythmic cycle and to the text. Annotations can be added in order to show in which direction we are travelling, etc. It does not address the matter of the notation of the movement itself: for example, if you write "tai hat tai hi", it is not clear which series of adavus it refers to, and if the bols are more specific, like "ta tai ta ha", you do not know which precise adavu in the series it is. However, such a notation is very important because it gives all the relevant rhythmic information. (I am surprised that this is not widely known or used, because it is clearly related to the Bhatkhande style of notation of hindustani music.) The same can be done using European style staff-notation (similarly as in a Piano score there are basically a staff for the left hand and a staff for the right hand: here, one can use one rhythmic staff for the music and a second staff for the dance bols corresponding to the footwork).

As you are interested in notating adavus, the rhythm is quite straightforward. Then, the focus has to be on notation of movements. Padma Subrahmanyam has introduced some ideas on notating them. This appears as a chapter in Sunil Kothari's book on Bharatanatyam. She uses a kind of staff notation. Each line correspond to a certain sort of foot movements (stamp with flat foot, heel, toes, etc). The notation only shows the footwork. In order to "notate adavus", she has to describe upper body movement by using words and photographs. Basically, this is not a notation system for full body movement.

2) Then, how to record movement of the body? Many people are using stick figures. Many positions of the body can be recorded accurately like this, but some positions require some serious drawing skills... I believe there is no "in between". If you want to record dance accurately, you have to analyse precisely positions and movements. If you design your own notation system, you are reinventing the wheel: rediscovering the concepts that are involved in movement analysis, which is not easy! I feel it makes more sense to use what is available and what has already been developped and experienced for decades! Each system is based on certain analysis tools, i.e. different ways of understanding movement.

There exists several notation systems in order to record full body movement. More than a hundred such systems have existed. In Europe and North America, two systems are used in professional context: Laban and Benesh. Several attempts were made with Laban-notation in Indian Classical Dance. Vidhya Subramaniam did a Master thesis on the notation of bharatanatyam in the Laban system. A few people made experiments also with Benesh movement notation (for example, two Kalakshetra versions of Alarippus were notated in this system in 1972).
I have been learning Benesh notation for three years now. The basic principle of Benesh movement notation is that it is a kind of stylised version of stick figures: in a Benesh staff, we have a sequence of frames (groups of signs), basically each frame represents a position of the dancer at a given time. Benesh notation was introduced first for ballet, but already in 1968, Rudolf Benesh and al. wrote a paper about the possible use of his system for Indian classical dance forms.

Benesh notation (and other notation system such as Laban) can be used to record movement of the whole body, the use of space and directions, the relation to music. Many details can be included such as head and eye movements, hand gestures... I have notated many adavus and several items using Benesh movement notation. I have put an excerpt of a Benesh notation of a bharatanatyam item at http://jriou.org/misc/benesh/prastar-extrait.pdf (This is an excerpt from Prastar (Chautal, Raga Yaman) choreographed by Sucheta Chapekar, who taught me this item. It is bharatanatyam technique set to hindustani music, but the same principles can be applied to bharatanatyam as it is usually set to carnatic music. Up to some little details, this is the choreography performed by Pauline Reibell in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eROB8FthFtU The excerpt starts from 3'24".)

There is a series of good introduction videos to Benesh notation on YouTube: http://www.dancewrite.com/OpenBenesh/Vi ... o_BMN.html (These videos were done with the intent of a use in ballet context, so that there is a certain focus on some special feet positions such as third and fifth position of ballet, but apart from that, most of the material is relevant for bharatanatyam.).

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by rshankar »

Joel!
First off, welcome to the forum! Your post was both informative as well as very well-written. Your passion as a dance scholar comes through very well. Thank you so much for sharing your views.

Devisri775
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Joined: 08 Dec 2016, 19:23

Re: indian classical dance NOTATION SYSTEM-s

Post by Devisri775 »

Namasthe! Can I have copy too please. Devisri775@gmail.com.

Thank you
Sridevi

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