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Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
sureshvv
Posts: 3426
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by sureshvv » 19 Apr 2017, 07:39

melam72 wrote:
19 Apr 2017, 07:07
I can attest rather confidently that my hair brims with dark, fibrous hair, and grows so fast that I have to cut it every other week...
C'mon... hair in your nostrils doesn't count!

shankarank
Posts: 813
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by shankarank » 19 Apr 2017, 10:12

melam72 wrote:
18 Apr 2017, 18:19
It is ambiguous whether they had human subjects or divine subjects
If we consider that Sound at its basic existence is divine - and that is how the sAdhana is done - there is no need to further go into the lyrics or their meaning. Let me ask you why should a Mother who hands this off to the daughter insist on the correct way to sing this? Sruti Shuddham etc., if this is not sacred?

Secondly the community that kept this alive through generations, if indeed, kept such a rich tradition alive - then they were integral part of the culture/civilization/society - i.e. they were not persecuted by the rest!

This kind of dissection is modern - and also influenced by Abrahamic religions ( Sorry Nick - I just don't want to single out Christians - may be I could also say Victorian moral codes). In Indian sense you cannot deny that a human has the potential to be divine! Such a distinction should never be done especially inside an expressive form like traditional music. We should use the word sAhitya not lyrics!

There is no need to go deeper into philosophies. A daughter/son can refuse to abide by parent's guidance - simply telling them "I am just a product of your pleasure - why should I listen to you?" and that has happened to married parents in the U.S. That is all it takes to finish off the tradition. Imagine if successive generations of daughters did not view it like that and how that tradition proceeded and musical treasures made available to us. If the Mother did not treat and project this as divine or sacred to their daughters we would not have gotten it in the first place!!!

melam72
Posts: 140
Joined: 02 Nov 2016, 16:12

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by melam72 » 19 Apr 2017, 10:29

shankarank wrote:
19 Apr 2017, 10:12
This kind of dissection is modern - and also influenced by Abrahamic religions ( Sorry Nick - I just don't want to single out Christians - may be I could also say Victorian moral codes). In Indian sense you cannot deny that a human has the potential to be divine! Such a distinction should never be done especially inside an expressive form like traditional music. We should use the word sAhitya not lyrics!
Which is exactly my point! The moment we began labelling this, we lost the aesthetic in our Karnataka Sangeetham. For example, the Thodi Ata Tala Varnam refers to a golden limbed woman longing for Sarabhoji! Had this been composed today, Pallavi Gopalayyar would be faced with a barrage of libel suits!

melam72
Posts: 140
Joined: 02 Nov 2016, 16:12

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by melam72 » 19 Apr 2017, 10:29

sureshvv wrote:
19 Apr 2017, 07:39
C'mon... hair in your nostrils doesn't count!
I don't comb my nostril hair. That seems like a very sureshvv thing to do :lol: :lol: :lol:

arasi
Posts: 14933
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by arasi » 19 Apr 2017, 20:03

Ah! Our intellectuals carry on a tiNNaip pEchu (discussion)--a mighty intellectual one, displaying their impressive prowess--then, they condescend (descend?) to include mere human grooming details! Why, many of us wonder. Please don't bring in chromosomes and culture into those as well, as if to add value to such trivialities :(

Now that maDi has become part of our vocabulary at Rasikas.org, keep the discussions maDi, so that we can learn from the interactions of such bright minds you all richly possess...

sankarank,
Your posts are worth reading--call it a geriatric bias on my part, if you will.

As for Nick, maDi sangItam is his wont, but what else is? Bless him for that :)

melam72
Posts: 140
Joined: 02 Nov 2016, 16:12

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by melam72 » 19 Apr 2017, 20:39

arasi wrote:
19 Apr 2017, 20:03
As for Nick, maDi sangItam is his wont, but what else is? Bless him for that :)
A wont of wont of English Note :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nick H
Posts: 8175
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by Nick H » 19 Apr 2017, 20:57

A wont of wont of English Note
But indeed no want! :lol:

(Although I'll make an occasional exception for Suryaprakash)

srikant1987
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23
Location: India

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by srikant1987 » 19 Apr 2017, 21:17

or TNK? :)

arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by arasi » 19 Apr 2017, 21:22

Nick,
Now, that's a ray of sun shine (as in surya prakash) for me!
Your wont is 'I won't', otherwise :lol:

Srikant,
If TNK is not Nick's pick...well, not only will I be stunned, but disappointed!

shankarank
Posts: 813
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by shankarank » 19 Apr 2017, 21:50

arasi wrote:
19 Apr 2017, 20:03
h! Our intellectuals carry on a tiNNaip pEchu (discussion)--a mighty intellectual one, displaying their impressive prowess--then, they condescend (descend?) to include mere human grooming details! Why, many of us wonder. Please don't bring in chromosomes and culture into those as well, as if to add value to such trivialities
paDam evvaLavu serious-A irrundAlum naDu naDuvila Nagesh comedy illAma enda paDamum ODiyatillai :lol:
(However serious a (tamil) movie can be , it never became a hit without comedy bits ( Nagesh) in between) :lol: :lol:

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by Nick H » 19 Apr 2017, 22:30

TNK is certainly my want and wont.

Believe it or not, TMK can be too!

shankarank
Posts: 813
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by shankarank » 19 Apr 2017, 22:33

biT-illAmal hiTT-Akavillai
viTTEn AdallAl viTTaDikka

hmm.. I am getting into Arasi's mode!

sureshvv
Posts: 3426
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by sureshvv » 19 Apr 2017, 22:37

Sometimes somone has to stand up to bullies.

shankarank
Posts: 813
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by shankarank » 19 Apr 2017, 22:56

Nick H wrote:
19 Apr 2017, 22:30
Believe it or not, TMK can be too!
By TMK's time additional reinforcements were in store before he went to SSI - like he had Seetharama Sarma and then Chingelpet Ranganathan etc. - but still he was only technically perfect almost - never had that pause/abstraction and I am not referring to his speeding up for cresendo.

He is trying to do that by brute force now - searching for aesthetics in a deliberate fashion.

rshankar
Posts: 12520
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by rshankar » 20 Apr 2017, 00:52

shankarank wrote:
19 Apr 2017, 22:33
hmm.. I am getting into Arasi's mode!
Arasi - time to look for a cullU - as in it's time for 'cullU bhar pAni mein dUb marnA' - and no translations will be forthcoming!

MaheshS
Posts: 744
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by MaheshS » 20 Apr 2017, 01:32

rshankar wrote:
20 Apr 2017, 00:52
Arasi - time to look for a cullU - as in it's time for 'cullU bhar pAni mein dUb marnA' - and no translations will be forthcoming!
Do Not Feed The Trolls in Kannada? :lol: :lol: :lol:

shankarank
Posts: 813
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by shankarank » 21 Apr 2017, 10:25

Looks like Arkay is reacting to our discussions or what?

So VVS does a substantive discussion - I must admit I have heard Ravi Shankar but never bothered to read or know much about him - yeah he worked with the Beatles that much I know.

https://youtu.be/GMLVsL16t0Y?t=5727

So the counter culture that attended the 1971 Bangladesh concert in New York : 500K buffalos on the mud - people like Pt. Ravi Shankar walked away from them. They may have had a warped view of what was Indic - and behaviour unacceptable to us. But they were the ones up against the Judaeo-Christian ( Can I use the term Abrahamic Nick? - Pt. Ravi Shankar I think will not score as popular if I took a walk down the lane of the Abrahamics in the Republic of Texas) American establishment fueled from behind by the Church - that our Spiritual gurus must have capitalized.

They behaved the way they did because they don't have the benefit of Sanskriti and Samskaras ( which can never be seen equivalent to catholicism)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countercu ... _the_1960s

Some of them did experiment with Indian mystic ways. But Pt. Ravi Shankar would rather work with Scout boys of Symphonies more than those whose hearts beat for the Indic.

India lacked the narrative power at that time and lost on two fronts even as it liberated Bangladesh.

The hippies were appropriated by Chomksy and the like in the Anti-Vietnam war movement - the left appropriated the activism part. Any good out of it were assimilated, rather digested by the Judeo-Christian predator!

Back home the Bangladesh war that sent India into Soviet hands that had its own repercussions and our Academia were stuffed with Leftists!

That is the Indic lens view!
Last edited by shankarank on 21 Apr 2017, 11:00, edited 2 times in total.

shankarank
Posts: 813
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by shankarank » 21 Apr 2017, 10:50

shankarank wrote:
21 Apr 2017, 10:25
Sanskriti and Samskaras ( which can never be seen equivalent to catholicism)
I am not sure if that is what is being done today. Certainly the colonial remnant that passes for Sanskriti today is being equated with the hegemony akin to that of the American establishment of the 1960s/70s and you can see TMK citing the Jazz movement as an example of socio-political that arts engaged with and he positions himself as a countervailing force against what is currently the "classical" cultural establishment.

Nick H
Posts: 8175
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by Nick H » 21 Apr 2017, 17:08

Judaeo-Christian ( Can I use the term Abrahamic Nick? ...
Well, I guess so. Abraham being specifically the father of the twelve tribes, I suppose one can't get much more Abrahamic than Judaism!

But, in some important ways, it seems to me to stand different. Off the top of my head... It is not an evangelical religion; in fact, they make it quite difficult to join! The Rabinical thing seems to me closer to the Brahminical thing: they do not spout (not evangelical) their religion, they are seriously scholastic. And then there is the matter of being truly ancient. Oh, hey, they have arranged marriages too :lol:

I'm not an insider to either. Would you see Rabinical tradition as being, if not brothers, then maybe cousins, to your own tradition?

On top of all this... according to me (and at least a few others would agree) Jesus was Jewish, and never had any intention of founding a new religion. He was a reforming rabi: the Jewish establishment disowned him. So, according to The Word of Nick-H :oops:, Christianity is all a mistake! In that there is a body of gospel writings and stuff, my history/psychic/mystic friends and teachers tell me that it has more to do with Paul than it has with Jesus

We digress :D

shankarank
Posts: 813
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by shankarank » 21 Apr 2017, 18:50

Well, Christians were able to do a narrative of persecution of Jesus by the Jews and that's how they learnt it as well, assuming Jesus story is somewhat true history. The underlying dogmas and their connections are worth the study.

sureshvv
Posts: 3426
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by sureshvv » 21 Apr 2017, 23:37

shankarank's usage of Abrahamic is primarily to mean "Non Hindu" and from what I see a way of lumping together all Jews, Christians & Muslims under a broad umbrella in order to piss a maximum number of people off.

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by Nick H » 21 Apr 2017, 23:55

Indeed. That's what I don't like about it.

Sometimes he makes an interesting point, though.

shankarank
Posts: 813
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by shankarank » 22 Apr 2017, 05:00

sureshvv wrote:
21 Apr 2017, 23:37
in order to piss a maximum number of people off.
At least I seem to have succeeded against one - if that was my intention. :twisted:

Not really - it was to refer to some original concept whose foot print can be found in all the faiths - that is different from eastern traditions. If I used the term western - it is still too broad and there are so many other things like left leaning liberalism and other categories that their sociologists have laid out.

Also I would like to avoid crass identities - it may actually serve a purpose of respectfulness even as I seek to differentiate. Abrahamic became a category as Hinduism (if that is even a clear identity) many times did not have a seat on the narrative table even after Swami Vivekananda etc.

I also don't use Hindu that much if you noticed.

shankarank
Posts: 813
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by shankarank » 22 Apr 2017, 05:18

Now that would be a candidate to break the Ghetto - at least a sitarist would succeed! :twisted: :lol:

http://www.thehindu.com/news-service/ca ... epage=true

shankarank
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Another snippet from Sruthi Blog

Post by shankarank » 27 Apr 2017, 09:18

When Zakir played for Shakti group - he did 7 over 4 ( 7 beats in a period of 4 Aksharas) and Srinivas/Selvaganesh especially/McLaughlin were doing tAlam with nerves busting out of their fingers (narambu puDaikka) and you could hear var-E-vahs and balE - ustAd-ji from the audience.

When Arun does the same thing @ Plano Courtyard theater for Ra-Ga sisters who did a tAlam somewhat attentively - nobody to acknowledge explicitly!

It takes a Birju Maharaj @ Spic Macay IITM to demonstrate such things when tavil vidvans were doing this as a matter of fact all over the south and no one knew or pointed out!

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