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Creativity

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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kvchellappa
Posts: 2350
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Creativity

Post by kvchellappa » 02 May 2017, 20:50

In her book on Lalitha Sahasranamam, Dr. Sudha Seshayyan says, “Creativity is not dishing out something that did not exist before. It is creating an aura of mystery over what is known or expounding clearly that which is known already.”
It is generally conceded that all we see or do is (create) a new form to what is available. Granted that, what is creativity in music?
I heard two renowned musicians demonstrate how the same melody is obtained from different swara combinations. One of them demonstrated how in kalpana swaras a new effect is possible within the same oft-beat phrase.
It is contended that a new scalar raga is not creativity.

kvchellappa
Posts: 2350
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: Creativity

Post by kvchellappa » 03 May 2017, 15:30

"Quote "Dr. Sudha Seshayyan says, “Creativity is not dishing out something that did not exist before. It is creating an aura of mystery over what is known or expounding clearly that which is known already.” UNQUOTE. I beg to differ.

Creativity is original, afresh, anew, not in existence, bringing in to existence, acceptance, endorsement and support. The effort of making it known of the original creativity-if not known; making known, more known; sharing the experience of the values of pleasure in the original creativity with the spirit of the original creator and his creativity are recreativity, with elements of essence of creativity of the recreation and person recreating with his own intuition, insights-as variants, extensions and expansion of the imagination, ideation and creativity.

Muni Rao"

arasi
Posts: 15145
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Creativity

Post by arasi » 03 May 2017, 17:19

Depends on the context. On the one hand, we find that nothing is new. What we invest of our imagination adds a new perspective to an existing truth (thought, idea, inspired moment). Yet, in the sciences, totally new things can come into existence, and then of course, many other findings follow, based on that one spark.

God's creations in Nature and their ever fresh expressions emphasize that nothing is as new as it's all made out to be...

kvchellappa
Posts: 2350
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: Creativity

Post by kvchellappa » 16 May 2017, 15:03

"I suggest that the vision of even the original artist may be rather a discovery than a creation."
Ananda Coomaraswami.

melam72
Posts: 404
Joined: 02 Nov 2016, 16:12

Re: Creativity

Post by melam72 » 17 May 2017, 15:22

I completely disagree.

To me, creativity is not just discovering something new. It is even bringing something old out with the excitement and vitality of creating something per se.

Consider all the 'Besh Besh' the Porcine rasikas dish out even when Vedavalli sings sangathis in Sri Nathadi Guruguho, for instance.

srikant1987
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23
Location: India

Re: Creativity

Post by srikant1987 » 17 May 2017, 15:41

melan72 wrote: To me, creativity is not just discovering something new. It is even bringing something old out with the excitement and vitality of creating something per se.

Consider all the 'Besh Besh' the Porcine rasikas dish out even when Vedavalli sings sangathis in Sri Nathadi Guruguho, for instance.
'Besh Besh' isn't necessarily a response to "creativity" is it? ;)

SahanaVasud
Posts: 64
Joined: 02 Jul 2006, 04:33

Re: Creativity

Post by SahanaVasud » 19 May 2017, 23:41

IMHO, the best definition of creativity whether in science or in arts is what TMK explains in this video, after about 20 minutes from the start.
-- "Creativity-- should surprise the creator."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3f737wAKh4

Vanaja

shankarank
Posts: 1145
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Creativity

Post by shankarank » 21 May 2017, 10:25

Venki Ramakrishnan ( the nobel laureate for Ribosome work) almost said a similar thing ( to quote TMK : like some one asking how can I be creative - then they are the most non creative) to our friends @ Madras University - that you don't do stuff ( like specific research) to get a Nobel prize. "So don't ask me what policies can be put in place to produce Nobel laureates - That is not how it works!".

shankarank
Posts: 1145
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Creativity

Post by shankarank » 21 May 2017, 22:46

The scientists had to transition to many different institutions and change their field of interest/research to taste success!

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... lframalpha

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... -chemistry

But they never dissed the institutions that they worked for earlier!

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1057
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Creativity

Post by ganesh_mourthy » 22 May 2017, 13:24

The creativity of the Composer is one thing while that of the singer on stage is another. In our music there used to be a time when musicians are frowned upon when they brought a list of songs to be sung citing that it is not extemporaneous.

But then came a time where occasionally they will give a glance at a piece of paper to very rare tukkadas.

Then came the musicians with a note book .

Then came the iPad.

Now even some seasoned musicians look at their bit notes on the sly for ...sorry it is , it is open now .. for songs , swarams , varnams, alapanas (phew)

I am trying to find the below artist singing managalam from her memory. I have been to a few of her concerts and it is not nice to see sb looking at their notes every seconds. Can creativity be laced into this? I am sure it is the same few lines of alapana that is being rendered. Probably the students would do the nice cut paste jobs. And there is another of her disciple singing with her laptop. Hope they will not bring a teleprompter soon.

I remember the ADMK GS giving a speech and for a line as simple as " ...vazhi vandha selvangal ellaam or... vazhi sendral ...naalai namadhe". She had to take several glances throughout the speech which was memed in youtube by many.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mdfxJGn6vI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjtU0IM7sAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yi02sYwz0Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yi02sYwz0Q

melam72
Posts: 404
Joined: 02 Nov 2016, 16:12

Re: Creativity

Post by melam72 » 22 May 2017, 16:09

Ganesh Mourthy:

I recall this incident:
If Thursday set the tone, Friday dawned the promise of a pounding by poetic prowess. This morning, Kayalvizhi Venkatesh, daughter of Karunanidhi’s son and Union Minister M.K. Alagiri, took part in a poetry event.

Originally titled “March on Tamils, lion-like”, it descended into a roar in praise of Karunanidhi. Kayalvizhi’s poem titled “Let equality win” was wholly unintelligible.

Other poets drew constant applause whenever they came up with a catchy phrase (of course in praise of Karunanidhi), but the “captured” audience sat through mute during Kayalvizhi’s recitation, unable to make head or tail out of her poem.

“Both in construction and content, her poem hardly made any sense. From the way she was reciting it from memory, it was obvious that even she did not understand what she was speaking,” said a Tamil lecturer.

A little poetic politics now: Kayalvizhi has been promoted recently by the Alagiri family as a rival to Karunanidhi’s poetess daughter Kanimozhi, who cut her poetry teeth in the 1990s.

Truth be told, Kayalvizhi did make considerable progress today compared with a recent literary catastrophe on stage.

A ghost-written speech she had delivered in Tamil recently had “STOP” written in English to mark the spots where she had to pause. While firing off the speech, Kayalvizhi also read out the “STOPS” which sent the audience into spasms.

Curtains did not fall on the creative comedy there. The speech was published verbatim — full with the STOP — in the DMK organ Murasoli the next day. The jury is still out whether an “enterprising” sub-editor let it pass deliberately or it was a genuine bloomer born out of unalloyed adulation.
The next thing you know you'll have singers singing 'contributed by Lakshman R' or 'Pallavi' or 'Anupallavi' along with the song :lol: :lol:

<I'm looking at you, Jesudoss. Of course, it will be difficult looking back when you are looking at the laptop for the Hamsadhwani varnam's lyrics>

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1057
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Creativity

Post by ganesh_mourthy » 22 May 2017, 19:52

I would always cut some slack for Yesudass , for all the stardom he achieved in Film music and still keeping up decently with Carnatic , though not greatly.

and certainly not to Sudhaa who is a full time carnatic musician , except a bit of modeling time for Pothys , Hair Oils . She reads them word by word, and alapana ..thadha ree ( take a peek ), tha dha naa ( peek ) so it goes, and slokas word by word... what if wannacry locks the computer in the middle of her RTP? She should give a serious thought about it.

melam72
Posts: 404
Joined: 02 Nov 2016, 16:12

Re: Creativity

Post by melam72 » 22 May 2017, 20:42

ganesh_mourthy wrote:
22 May 2017, 19:52
and certainly not to Sudhaa who is a full time carnatic musician , except a bit of modeling time for Pothys , Hair Oils . She reads them word by word, and alapana ..thadha ree ( take a peek ), tha dha naa ( peek ) so it goes, and slokas word by word... what if wannacry locks the computer in the middle of her RTP? She should give a serious thought about it.
It seems to be more of a feature in Sudha's disciples; when I attended her NGS concert last season, her gaze was solely focussed on the gaze of Embar Kannan and the people who had the misfortune of attending her concert.

Talking of creativity and Sudha, in the same NGS concert, her Hindolam RTP featured the pallavi of Papanasam Sivan's Sama Gana Lolane Sadashiva. Unaltered word-to-word. The tune was the same. And she calls herself the disciple of MLV

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