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Violin bow arm angle

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raguanu
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Violin bow arm angle

Post by raguanu » 15 Jul 2017, 13:11

Some violinists keep the bow arm elbow close to the body with a narrow angle. Example: Lalgudi Family
Image
Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zioUxMBO9YA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLjhp6usqFg

This is the style I learnt as well. It's very comfortable, relaxed and doesn't strain the arm much.

Violinists like Ganesh-Kumaresh and Manjunath-Nagaraj have a significantly wider bow arm angle.
Image

Elbow is elevated and rotated. Forearm descends more steeply than in the other technique.

I'm sure both are good techniques and used by top line violinists. But,
  • What are the implications of bow arm angle? How does it affect the wrist, finger flexibility, etc? What changes when you widen or narrow the angle?
  • What are absolute do-s and don't-s? To my knowledge, raising the shoulder is a bad habit. What else should one watch out for?
If you are an experienced violinist please share which one is your preferred technique and why.

Thank you,
Ananth Pattabi
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SrinathK
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by SrinathK » 16 Jul 2017, 09:43

It all depends on your bow hold. Lalgudi school uses a modified German type of hold where the wrist is flat with all the fingers going over the bow stick. This will automatically bring the elbow down, but it means your wrist is essentially locked out of plane and has to rotate sideways to keep the bow straight when going from the tip to the frog and back. Now I can't ever hold the bow like that. The wrist is too stiff with all 4 fingers down flat over the bow stick.

Now Violinists of the Parur School are closer to a Franco Belgian style of hold, which allows you to get in more wrist action, especially in fast bowing passages and playing strokes like the sautille (which they excel at), not to mention their fat, juicy tone and their ability to play all the way to the frog.

Violinists like R K Shriram Kumar, T N Krishnan, V V Subramaniam and Ganesh Kumaresh are almost Russian. The Russian hold involves leaning the wrist over the index finger, resulting in a pronated wrist. This also forces the elbow to come up. It may also mean that the last finger may not reach the bow stick. This style gives you easy power, a more penetrating tone and unrivalled performance at the tip of the bow. In fact, at the extreme tip, some violinists with short arms have only 2 fingers on the bow for that extra reach.

You can experiment with different types of bow holds based on the contact postions of the fingers on the stick. The more pronated your wrist has to go, the higher you have to raise the elbow. In general, if you have a long arm and pronate the wrist too much, that raised elbow might strain your forearm and your shoulder. Some violinists may intuitively learn the Russian hold as kids when their arms were too short, but would have to learn to lower that elbow as their arms get longer when they grow up.

Nick H
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by Nick H » 16 Jul 2017, 18:13

SrinathK, another of your great insights into violin technique, explained so the layman can understand it. Thank you :D

SrinathK
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by SrinathK » 17 Jul 2017, 16:45

A gallery of bow holds

http://www.sruti.com/images/for%20cover ... r%2013.jpg - MSG

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YH5Rn-YhehQ/hqdefault.jpg - Ganesh Kumaresh

http://im.rediff.com/news/2013/apr/23la ... raman4.jpg - LGJ (The way he put his little finger on the bow was unusual, it was almost Galamian style over a German bow hold).

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bwn-gV-9fLA/hqdefault.jpg - Dr. N Rajam (Also Russian)

http://www.thehindu.com/migration_catal ... 5/07KI-MSG (Parur Sundaram Iyer is a clear Franco Belgian, but MSG was a bit unusual in that he held the bow closer to the tips of his fingers)

http://images.mid-day.com/2013/dec/03-M ... ishnan.jpg -- MSG. This is a clear Franco Belgian

http://eambalam.com/blog/wp-content/upl ... aram-2.jpg -- Dwaram Venkataswamy Naidu was probably the best example of an Indian violinist to use a "true" german hold.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/HNKnjvnLjG4/maxresdefault.jpg - Dr M Narmadha.

http://www.reocities.com/southindianmus ... agaraj.jpg - Mysore brothers (It's actually Franco Belgian with a raised elbow)

https://www.carnaticography.com/wp-cont ... G_8630.jpg - VV Subramaniam

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... e_2010.jpg - T N Krishnan

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ramoni.JPG - L Subramaniam tends to hold it in a more Russian manner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-8eA7Fl4q4 - Chowdiah. From the video, it's clear he used a Franco Belgian with a raised pinky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed28LL4IzJE - T K V Ramanujacharyulu. Among modern violinists, he is the only one I've seen who uses a German bow hold.

The key to these differences starts with the where the bow stick meets the index finger. In german bow holds, the bow stick makes contact only with the finger tip (the first third). In franco belgian bow holds, the bow meets the index finger at the 1st joint from the tip to the 2nd third of the index finger. In the Russian, the contact point is pushed up to the 2nd joint and the final third of the index finger. This in turn affects the wrist position from absolutely flat to supinated (German), between pronated at the tip and supinated at the frog (Franco Belgian), and pronated continuously (Russian). And the elbow as I wrote earlier follows the wrist.

https://maestronet.com/forum/uploads/mo ... 173563.png (This is a good picture, however the Russian bow hold has the wrist even more pronated than this)

The second most important thing is the little finger. Depending on the length of the 'pinky" and the pronation of the wrist, it may or may not contact the bow stick all the time. However, forcing the little finger to touch the stick will cause your wrist to get "locked". At the tip, the weight balance shifts to the index finger, causing the wrist to pronate more and it may result in the little finger going off the stick. At the frog, the weight balance shifts towards the ring and little fingers, and some violinists nearly remove the index finger.

Also the difference between the sitting and the standing posture -- while sitting, the wrist tends to pronate more. While standing, the bow is nearly horizontal with the ground, so the wrists tend to be flatter.

And here are some pictures of Western violinists - https://i.ytimg.com/vi/g_cejqS9-RU/maxresdefault.jpg - Elman (classic Russian)
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/d942dcc18fa04 ... c45mj2.jpg - Heifetz (Russian)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Pb84CCnkO5c/maxresdefault.jpg - Zuckerman (Franco Belgian)
https://chrismcgovernmusic.files.wordpr ... tanbul.jpg - Hilary Hahn (Franco Belgian)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/U8xpfySgxhg/maxresdefault.jpg - Isaac Stern (Franco Belgian)
http://ftnnews.com/images/stories/music ... erlman.jpg (His hands are very large, so his is an eccentric kind of FB bow hold)

Owing to the efforts of modern teachers, the Franco Belgian is now the most popular hold out there (there are some practitioners of the Russian bow hold) and the German bow hold is virtually an extinct species now as it wasn't the best option for virtuoso bowing techniques and modern Tourte style concave bows. However, about 200 years ago, it used to be standard and that's why you might find pictures of very old gen violinists holding the bow in the German style (even in India). For example :

https://chennaiviolinproject.files.word ... g_0394.jpg - Valadi Radhakrishna Iyer...
And the demon of 'em all - Paganini ! http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/bowpics/paganini1.jpg

The key is for the student to find out exactly what hand position suits his hand formation the best and allows the student to play the full range of techniques without strain and injury, rather than strictly trying to copy another violinist.

raguanu
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by raguanu » 18 Jul 2017, 13:24

Thanks for the detailed analysis SrinathK. It's interesting to look at bow arm angle as a consequence of bow hold. I'm curious about two aspects in this regard.

1. The bow hold
Our sitting position with violin introduces a drift on bow which is not experienced in western violin play. We have to control this drift with subtle change in pressure or by other means in our bow hold. As a result, though some of our bow holds look superficially similar to Franco-Belgian or Russian, they indeed are quite different. For instance, in any western bow hold, it's the middle finger and ring finger that actually hold the bow and the pressure exerted by index finger is carefully controlled/avoided. IMHO it's very difficult to have the same balance in carnatic violin play because index and little fingers play more a active role preventing bow from drifting downward.
This brings us back to my original question. What are the absolute do-s and donts?

2. Bow arm angle
If bow hold dictates bow arm angle, based on what criteria? avoiding bending wrist? Bowing from tip to nut on each of four strings, the wrist ought to bend at several positions. What is the optimization we should strive for?

Let me add a few more images to SriknathK's near exhaustive collection of images. I also believe there could be some difference between 'pose' photos vs the ones taken during performance.

Image
Image
Image

Here, MSG and Krishnan's bow holds are a world apart but bow arm angles are quite similar. Ganesh's hold in this image is enviably flawlessly ideal, but it's only margianally different than that of MSG's except for the lack of stiffness in the pinky and a slight seperation of index finger, but if bow hold is the deciding factor for bow arm angle, is the difference between MSG's and Ganesh's significant enought to warrant such a huge change in the way they hang their arms?

Does the angle and placement of violin play a role?

Thank you,
Ananth Pattabi
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SrinathK
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by SrinathK » 18 Jul 2017, 16:57

The bow hold does not determine bow angle. What you actually refer to is the location of the contact point, which has a tendency to slide down into the fingerboard area as the Indian style is closer to vertical rather than horizontal.

I also had this problem for a long time. I later realized from watching videos of violin lessons on Youtube, that the angle at which the bow contacts the strings is the key to adjusting the contact point. On a down bow, keeping the bow tip slightly rotated to your face will cause the contact point to move up along the bow stroke. On an up bow, the tip has to be rotated slightly down and away from you for the contact point to come up.

Western violinists use angled bowing to alter the contact point of the bow on the string at will. We need to do it a bit more consciously. I had this problem a lot with my own bowing (it would go way down into the fingerboard area) and solved it by looking at those videos.

In the Indian style, we also have to use a bit more wrist pressure where the weight of the bow alone would have been sufficient in the standing posture. There is a tendency to lean more on the index finger as a result of the sitting position (which may account for why so many Indian violinists have the pronated Russian hold). It is also harder to play near the frog end of the bow while sitting than while standing -- it's an achievement not to turn a bow stroke into a scrunch at that end -- which happens to be the main weakness of the Russian style.

My own theory why some Indian violinists put the pinky on the bow stick at all times is that this is a vestigial element of the old German hold. While the little finger is important for weight balance, bowing straight has nothing to do with the pinky. In fact, keeping the little finger on at all times in a legato will lock up the wrist (I put my pinky down only in the lower half of the bow). The most important function of the little finger is when you're crossing strings or lifting the bow (without the control given by the little finger, it is very difficult to lift the bow off the string or play in the lower third of the bow) -- in WCM the pinky is known as the lifting finger for this reason.

Even for Indian violinists with perfect bow technique, the contact point is towards the fingerboard and not the bridge. It helps in playing fast swaras and becomes a matter of habit over time.

I'd say one important reason why so many different bow holds work is that all these violinists started learning at a very young age long before the bones had fused in their hands and arms. It's certain that their bones, muscles and tendons have adapted to be comfortable and flexible with their bow hold and that's also why you or I can hold the bow only in the way that's most convenient for us.

raguanu
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by raguanu » 19 Jul 2017, 01:11

SrinathK wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 16:57
What you actually refer to is the location of the contact point
I believe there's a misunderstanding. By bow arm angle I mean the angle at axilla (under-arm) between the trunk of body and the arm.
Image
I'm trying to understand this angle from ergonomics and violin-technique point of views. Is narrow angle easy on body than wider one? Does wider angle take some stress off wrist? Does a certain angle/range facilitate flexibility at fingers which becomes difficult at other angles? How wide is too wide?

Thank you,
Ananth Pattabi
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SrinathK
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by SrinathK » 19 Jul 2017, 09:53

You need to experiment then. The best teacher is ultimately your own body.

As a kid I had really poor bow mechanics - I could hardly bow in a straight line, couldn't use 3 quarters of the bow, and my contact point was atrocious. By the time I came to college, I had at one point transitioned to an uber pronated wrist (my contact point was almost at the root of the index finger) which helped me at the tip, but my elbow wasn't happy with something that wide angle, it soon started to hurt. And also thanks to that I could hardly play a bow stroke in the lower half of the bow. I also tried to keep the pinky forcibly down all the time only to realize that it locked up the wrist.

The LGJ hold as I already told you, I simply could never do (he had a huge hand, I once shook hands with him and was surprised at how large it was). Also as a teenager, when my arm got longer, I had to make a lot of adjustments to my bowing as I couldn't bow straight at that point. I can't hold the bow exactly the way my own teacher held it either, it's just not my arm and hand. Curiously, while Krishnan holds the bow in the older style, Vijayalakshmi is definitely a Franco Belgian type.

That's when I got to know about Western violin technique. I tried imitating some western violinists who have the habit of sticking their 1st finger a little higher up the bow stick (See that photo of Ganesh) -- that again caused wrist lockup. The fingers have to be left free to do their thing.

Then I tried to go for a pure Franco Belgian type hold only to realize that anatomically I couldn't keep my fingers curvbeted all the time nor hold it over the 2nd or 3rd fingers. My thumb also can't bend in a convex manner, then I lose grip. So I did what felt most flexible for my hand.

I now go for something that's still somewhat closer to the Russian, but not so pronated (my contact point is almost at the 2nd joint now, but still in the upper third of the index finger). I also figured out the weight balance and learned to shift the weight to the little finger at the frog, which helped me use the full bow. As far as my elbow goes, it's now neutral -- it isn't below the level of the wrist (like a crane's neck) nor is it flared out right above the wrist. This also eliminated any shoulder strain. Keeping the elbow too low can make it impossible to bring in the wrist action where you need it. Right now my elbow is right where it should be for my arm's length.

The biggest advantage is that in very fast strokes, I need not strain the big muscles of the arm nearly as much as before and can bring in some wrist action. Many bow strokes have become easier now, string crossings are cleaner, the contact point is more stable. The tone has improved as I can now bring in wrist pressure to regulate it. I've got much more power than before. I also practiced in front of a mirror for a while to see what was really going on, that was very helpful.

I finally figured that something very close to TNK mama's bow hold with a slightly lower and tucked in elbow was my best fit. MSG sir had a wonderful shoulder and elbow positioning.

I still need a lot of work, and of late I haven't been able to touch my violin for weeks. But this is how I found what works for me.

raguanu
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by raguanu » 19 Jul 2017, 15:25

One shouldn't do wild experiments with his body and violin technique as he might end up messing up any technique he already has and pick up bad habits unknowingly. Listening to the body is tricky because when you tell the body to do something different, it will react with discomfort at first. Getting reasonable control over any technique or technique change will take at least a few months of dedicated practice, and to know the full implications of such technique it might take years.

SrinathK's experience in relearning gives us some interesting insights. Any other violinist in this forum had to relearn bowing, especially the bow arm angle? Even if you didn't have to relearn or alter, could you reflect on the way you keep your elbow and share us some details?

Thank you,
Ananth Pattabi
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hnbhagavan
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by hnbhagavan » 19 Jul 2017, 17:57

Here is an article by S Varadarajan worth recalling.There are a few lines on technique:

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 698832.ece

SrinathK
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by SrinathK » 19 Jul 2017, 19:44

One shouldn't do wild experiments with his body and violin technique as he might end up messing up any technique he already has and pick up bad habits unknowingly.
True. In my defence though, I had not paid attention to my bowing since my first few lessons and never even realized how messed up it was till I was a teenager -- it does take a while to override bad habits, but it is not that difficult for us amateurs, since our practice isn't really worth mentioning. Now if you are a decades seasoned musician, that IS something else. In WCM a tremendous amount of work is dedicated towards bowing, both technically and musically and the development of bowing takes years.

However, in the long term, the drawbacks of poor technique (or even a near perfect technique with one major flaw) will and has come back to haunt many a violinist. Especially so in Western violin, where the bow arm has to face a battle at every performance.

So long as one avoids the bad habits of a locked or overly pronated wrist, clenched or overly straighted fingers, too much raising the elbow and forcing the delicate muscles of the shoulder and rotator cuff to do the job of the forearm and upper arm, the rest is a matter of technique and what the individual hand is best suited for. Ultimately there must be minimal strain from the finger tip to the top of the shoulder where it meets the neck. These IMHO are the bad habits anatomically. Especially in the standing position, bringing the elbow up to shoulder height (or even above) forces can cause impingement and strain on the rotator cuffs. Also for very fast bowing, too much use of the big arm muscles and no wrist may result in one spending far more energy than what is necessary.

The most egregious example of this would be Yehudi Menuhin, whose bow arm deteriorated over time. He realized the error way too late -- it had crept in as he transitioned from a child to a teenager -- his elbow was atrociously high and it had never been pointed out.

srikant1987
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by srikant1987 » 21 Jul 2017, 11:24

Missed this thread!

Now, there is a slight difference between how TNK holds it to how VVS holds it, though both may be "Russian". TNK keeps the elbow far to the right of his body, where as VVS (and apparently also MSG), keeps it "behind" the body. Keeping the elbow too close to the body (neither to the right, nor "behind") doesn't allow as much power during bowing. More of the force exerted is wrist/elbow, which isn't as strong as elbow/shoulder.

Raguanu,
The MSG-Kumaresh picture show different bow positions. Kumaresh's bowing is at the tip, MSG is mid-bow.

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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by SrinathK » 21 Jul 2017, 22:28

Also one more thing, please do note what string each of these violinists are playing on. If you are comparing a violinist playing on the E string to another playing on the D or the G, there's no way those elbows are going to be in the same position.

The tilt angle of the violin also matters. If you tilt the violin to the right, you can play on the lower strings without much raising of that elbow. TNK Mama does this, MSG & L Subramaniam don't (speaking of LS, his family has the highest and most flared elbows out there).

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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by raguanu » 26 Jul 2017, 12:15

I agree the pictures are not taken at same playing conditions, bow length, string etc. I was just doing the best I can grabbing images from youtube videos. Besides, my intention is not to compare and critique technique of masters but rather to understand the basic physiology of violin play. The wide variety of this bow arm angle among masters only prove that all these angles work equally well.
srikant1987 wrote:Keeping the elbow too close to the body ... doesn't allow as much power during bowing. More of the force exerted is wrist/elbow, which isn't as strong as elbow/shoulder.
I believe the pressure should come from fingers and wrist and not from arm. Correct me if I'm wrong. Moreover, only a very little pressure is required for bowing and the pressure needs to be adjusted and controlled very finely. With power comes crokcrok sound at bow turns :)

Thank you,
Ananth Pattabi
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SrinathK
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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by SrinathK » 26 Jul 2017, 23:12

Well, there is one risk keeping the elbow raised and flared out all the time. Bowing involves a combination of a raised elbow, pronated wrist and highly internally rotated shoulders. Especially on the lower strings, it's something akin to doing both an upright row and a lateral raise with the thumbs downward. These 2 exercises when performed in this manner are among the biggest causes of shoulder problems.

This type of motion (laterally raised arm + internal shoulder rotation) can lead to shoulder impingement (where the bones of the humerus rub and crush the tendons against the bones of the shoulder) and rotator cuff problems. The supraspinatus muscle (connecting your neck to your shoulder) bears the brunt of this load (and is also therefore the most frequently injured muscle among athletes, bodybuilders and musicians alike). If that muscle gets injured, you cannot properly raise your arm and hold it to the side anymore.

For that reason, flaring the elbow out excessively with a very pronated wrist can hurt. If your arm isn't short, you will end up raising the elbow and forcing the shoulder muscles to take the brunt of the load. It is this exact injury that eventually caused the great Jascha Heifetz to put down his bow. Technically flawless otherwise, his one habit of raising the arm to shoulder height to play on the lower strings over 7 decades of wear and tear wore down that shoulder. Surgery meant he could play again, but could never again raise his right arm like before.

However the good news is that in the sitting posture, the shoulder is immediately relieved of a huge amount of strain as the playing is now in the vertical rather than the horizontal plane and the forearm is downward rather than sideways. Still I found over pronation and raising the elbow to hurt my forearm and shoulder after some time, so I'd advise against it. I use a less extreme bow hold now.

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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by rshankar » 27 Jul 2017, 05:58

SrinathK wrote:
26 Jul 2017, 23:12
The supraspinatus muscle (connecting your neck to your shoulder)
Small correction: the supraspinatus muscle connects the scapula (in the back) to the top of the humerus (arm bone); in layman's terms, it runs on top of the shoulder blade. Its main purpose is to provide a boost to the middle third of deltoid muscle to initiate abduction (raising) of the shoulder joint (0 to 45 degrees, some say 0-60 degrees). It does run under the spine of the scapula, and over the shoulder joint and is one of the rotator cuff muscles - consequently, it gets squished between the capsule of the joint below and the bone above when the arm is repeatedly abducted (sort of how you wear down a sock that is caught between the heel and the shoe); it has a tendon that is prone to irritation/inflammation and rupture.

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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by SrinathK » 27 Jul 2017, 09:18

rshankar wrote:
27 Jul 2017, 05:58
SrinathK wrote: ↑26 Jul 2017 23:12
The supraspinatus muscle (connecting your neck to your shoulder)
Small correction: the supraspinatus muscle connects the scapula (in the back) to the top of the humerus (arm bone); in layman's terms, it runs on top of the shoulder blade. Its main purpose is to provide a boost to the middle third of deltoid muscle to initiate abduction (raising) of the shoulder joint (0 to 45 degrees, some say 0-60 degrees). It does run under the spine of the scapula, and over the shoulder joint and is one of the rotator cuff muscles - consequently, it gets squished between the capsule of the joint below and the bone above when the arm is repeatedly abducted (sort of how you wear down a sock that is caught between the heel and the shoe); it has a tendon that is prone to irritation/inflammation and rupture.
Thank you @rshankar. I'll be more precise next time. But the combination of a laterally raised arm with highly internally rotated shoulder is ripe for impingement -- having found out about this, I stopped doing inverted rows and changed my technique on lateral raises. The inverted row position is especially something to behold -- it looks exactly like a violinist playing on the G string. This can also happen when violinists try to add power by raising the elbow or the arm instead of trying to use the wrist, fingers and forearm or contact point for it.

Fortunately in our sitting posture, the upper arm stays down instead of raised and our bowing for the most part isn't the kind of MMA contest it is in Western violin.

The famous violinist Maxim Vengerov suffered a shoulder injury (probably the same) while weightlifting and eventually he called time out for a few years. Fortunately surgery's got him playing again. But now he has drastically economized his movement (earlier, he was a WILD player). The word out there is that practically all orchestral string players have experienced pain while playing at some point, with a sizeable chunk playing with pain day in and day out.

I have found that raising the elbow above the level of the hand does not add power, rather it tends to strain the deltoids and the supraspinatus, as well as the triceps at the elbow (it feels like the upper arm is getting twisted in addition to raised). Keeping it too far down (in the crane neck position) is also not good - it becomes impossible to apply pressure on the string through my wrist. Just doing the crane neck for a few minutes had my shoulder muscles crying for mercy.

In both cases, the lateral movement of the bow predominantly becomes a function of the shoulder muscles (the rotator cuffs) rotating in and out rather than the biceps and triceps and the forearm. The ideal position of the elbow is in line with the rest of the arm where the full weight of the arm can be brought down on the bow with no strain and where the biceps and triceps and forearm are doing the bulk of the work. This is where you get the maximum power as well.

Here are some photos of LGJ - the elbow position IMHO is absolutely perfect for his arm's length : https://i.ytimg.com/vi/VM-ypKGd_QA/maxresdefault.jpg
https://www.sangeethapriya.org/tributes ... GJ_PSP.jpg

In this I also observed that where the violin sits on your body also matters. When it's too close to your neck (like the way small children hold it), you have to raise the arm at the shoulder to compensate (straining the traps in the process). Depending on your height, it would be better to lower it to the collarbone or below to the chest (which was what was done by old school violinists). As a kid, I kept my violin so high it left a line engraved on my neck. I eventually lowered my violin just below my collarbone as I got older -- it was a key reason why I could bow in a straight line for the first time. :mrgreen: This I observed is a key difference between the old school violinists and the next / current gen violinists -- the current gen tends to keep the violin more vertical and higher up the body, on the shoulder or even up to the neck, which may be why they are also raising their elbows more. An overly raised elbow may be the remnant of a childhood habit, when the violin was bigger and the arm much shorter.

The disadvantage of lowering the violin too far however is that it becomes difficult to bring the left arm underneath to reach high positions -- for which MSG simply found a solution to take his thumb off altogether and drive the motorcycle with no hands on the wheel. But that's another story.

I think I've now shared possibly everything I know of this...

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Re: Violin bow arm angle

Post by srikant1987 » 27 Jul 2017, 21:56

raguanu wrote:"I believe the pressure should come from fingers and wrist and not from arm."
Right, largely, but the motion of the bow comes from force exerted by wrist, elbow and shoulder.

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