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Whats with these landscape visuals?

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
chalakkudy
Posts: 7
Joined: 11 Nov 2013, 18:27

Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by chalakkudy » 10 Sep 2017, 10:33

Just a random thought that struck me. If you notice most of our music videos that come in DD or other channels, have landscape been used as placeholders in the absence of the actual performance visuals or even as segues in between concert visuals. This can be seen in documentaries too. To add to it, even the recent post on Sri BMK and Sri Ravikiran performing together (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDZkH_7 ... e=youtu.be) and films like 'One' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlMHq5W66D4) too this nature - music dichotomy.

I dont know if this is a good enough topic for a discussion here, nevertheless, what do you think is the best visual for a carnatic programme? Are visuals of nature the best option? (other than the artistes' visuals)

Sachi_R
Posts: 433
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by Sachi_R » 10 Sep 2017, 11:14

Chalakkudy,
Thanks for starting this topical thread! I do share your consternation, misgivings, unease and discomfiture with discordant and distracting visuals.

I find the visuals used by First Edition Arts and Madrasana (both of which have featured Ramakrishnan Murthy ☺️) to be appropriate.

I find those rows of conifers, cascading Amazon waterfalls, and aerial travel over snowscapes, wild deserts, cranes mating, raging forest fires, etc. laughable at best and most irritating and distracting at worst.

Shooting musical videos in desolate vermin-infested wastelands near Chennai with an eloquent Yadukula Kambhoji for special effects is highly misplaced aesthetics.

Similar is positing a passionate liberated Carnatic well-accoutred star amidst crocodiles and corals for capturing the mood of Kambhoji. This kind of picturisation merits a direct admission to the world's best run mental correction facility.

Which brings me to Boot Polish

varsha
Posts: 1926
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by varsha » 10 Sep 2017, 12:20

Not true of musical videos produced in kerala tv channels
other rare occasion where DD got it right
Dancing in the Heavens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdV-yULTcY4

Somebody was sensible to keep a clean background
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv-xrLGlGNw

What I dread more is
the panning of camera from the top of tanpura downwards(always top down)
Flower pots , artificial ponds
peeping through rhombus shaped holes in walls
platforms at different levels

I end up closing my eyes , which by the was , is the best way to enjoy these

Sachi_R
Posts: 433
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by Sachi_R » 10 Sep 2017, 13:19

Yes, Varsha!
I also know how some cameramen are so bored that they focus on the violinist during tani and make a special effort to capture the tambura player's pallu.

I think it was the English conductor Sir Thomas Beecham who said, when questioned about the great impact that the introduction of BBC television would have on classical music, "who welcomes the prospect of staring into a soprano's mouth?"

rshankar
Posts: 12660
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by rshankar » 10 Sep 2017, 21:08

varsha wrote:
10 Sep 2017, 12:20
other rare occasion where DD got it right
Dancing in the Heavens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdV-yULTcY4
Oh how LOVELY! I watched the clip with goosebumps - makes one wonder if she was born to dance OR if oDissi was created for her.....

RSR
Posts: 392
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by RSR » 10 Sep 2017, 23:35

The problem is that , to the best of my knowledge, it is not possible to upload pure audio files (mp3) to youtube, as you can to soundcloud. Youtube however is more well known social media. . if we are uploading dance performance or public meetings and such, video is valuable. But for pure music alone, any video is a horrible distraction. Youtube accepts mp4 ( audio with just some relevant image). Even some filmsong uploaders do a nice job. They just add a picture of the singer completely omitting the actual scene from the film. https://youtu.be/B8bSNcg8ocY ( aayee aayee raath suhaani-poonam-1952). .. Carnatic and Hindusthani classical music uploads should strictly avoid videos and even slides. A static picture is the right choice. After all, it is music that matters and not the video of the concert . The static picture should be relevant to the song. My upload tries to indicate the theme,lyricist and the singer. Easy to identify. Nothing gaudy. https://youtu.be/zpSsxYj9dwo
The samples given by varsha ji are of dance So video cannot be avoided... Moreover, for concert uploads, just a single picture of the artistes in the stage is enough. and in the description part, full list of the songs with ragam,thaalam information and the starting and ending points of each song should be given. The uploader can give any additional information as a comment.

Sachi_R
Posts: 433
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by Sachi_R » 10 Sep 2017, 23:53

RSR,
You're spot on about most of Carnatic music You Tube audio uploads.
But the original post and Varsha and I were referring to recent videos and DD camerawork where distracting and laughable visuals have been employed. That is not a You Tube issue really.

I feel Sangeethapriya.org is very efficient. Their tagging, searchable database, downloadability, streaming and mobile apps are good. Some typos and inconsistencies are a legacy we have to live with I suppose.
But they have to work hard to maintain the servers, and the audio quality from concerts is not good. Radio recordings and rarely, some uploads are of good audio quality.

I have used Soundcloud extensively for the Parvathi Blog and it is not bug-free. It costs money and has issues.

varsha
Posts: 1926
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by varsha » 11 Sep 2017, 07:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYWi4pPZRs8

only dd trivandrum could pull of such an aesthetic heist
...
only dd delhi could cut it short at stroke of midnight with their news bulletin.namaskar.. aaj ki khabar ...
leaving me to ponder at 00- kal Aj aur kal
at least i had the sense to pick this clip on my vcr
that camera guy knows something about the powerful strains that criss cross his vision .
Sivaramakrishnan... next time you are at trivandrum , please ferret out the full video from DD :D

RSR
Posts: 392
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by RSR » 12 Sep 2017, 22:33

Chalakkudi ->
To add to it, even the recent post on Sri BMK and Sri Ravikiran performing together ?v=ZDZkH_7 ... e=youtu.be)....
When I click on the link cited, it is taking me to tube pages only. May I have the correct url? ......
I was wondering if it was a reference to my upload of DKP song!
Rsachi-> I had seen the film 'boot polish' when I was a schoolboy. It is a very nice ( non-romantic film for a change) produced by RajKapoor. with a social message. Wonderful classical song. A scene from the film. I dont see any thing out of place in it. .For one, it is a clip from a film without 'slender gender' stuff. Far better than a singer shown singing in odd surroundings as if for a commercial.( it may be without his knowledge) Like Dr.Abdul Kalam appearing in a commercial!...

Sachi_R
Posts: 433
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by Sachi_R » 13 Sep 2017, 00:32

I loved the song. I had shared the video earlier too.
The biggest disadvantage of You Tube is that you jump into a video like that song without any prior acquaintance with the story, context, the characters etc. In spite of that, just the music carried the day for me.
I do say, however, that visualising and rightly picturising a song is VERY DIFFICULT.
Here is a song which I liked....again all the caveats apply.
https://youtu.be/qtz5mpvgAM0

RSR
Posts: 392
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by RSR » 13 Sep 2017, 12:46

Sachi_R-> 1) Youtube can be requested to offer a purely audio channel .(perhaps, there already is one? (2) I would not blame the uploader of the Bootpolish song. The lyrics and the visuals are absolutely out of sync with the great song in pure HM by Manna Dey ( By the way, what is the ragam of that song? .any idea? ( 3) Youtube does give a box-space for brief description by the uploader. and even a message. Though many uploaders do not use that facility. (4) If the uploader of that song realized the incongruity of the song with the scene, he would have to extract the mp3, convert the mp3 to simple mp4 with a single image (perhaps of the singer MannaDey) and then upload to youtube. Though there are free and efficient on-line tools for the purpose, ( it all takes just 5 minutes) many may not be aware. The fault however ,is with the producer/director.
Who can find any fault with this lovely song and picturization in 1960 film Anuradha ? https://youtu.be/v57QxIkF3nI
Ragam Kalavathi(HM). Great acting by everyone in the scene...music by Pt.Ravishankar

( 5) Why should we have a video of any carnatic/ HM concert or song at all? I think, David in the bootpolish song, really captured the gestures of many a classical singer ( very common even today). The concert is to be heard and not seen. Or only very distant shots should be allowed. The video craze is spoiling the very atmosphere of even serious concerts. Why not simulate AIR environment in sabha concerts , if at all?

Nick H
Posts: 8365
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by Nick H » 13 Sep 2017, 13:56

RSR wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 12:46
Sachi_R-> 1) Youtube can be requested ...
You can ask the gods for anything that you fancy... You can ask Youtube...

Past history says that that won't happen. The absence of any signs of Google rushing to buy up Soundclound (financially ailing, I believe), or similar, suggests that this is not where they see good business.

The issue is addressed: Youtube uploaders use one or more static images as "video." It can be further addressed at the consumer end by hiding, minimising, etc, the youtube-playing browser window. Youtube has to have visual content: that doesn't mean anyone has to look at it :D

RSR
Posts: 392
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by RSR » 13 Sep 2017, 14:41

Sangeethapriya site, I suppose, has the mission of making available great (music)classics past and present. Laudable. But Streaming audio service defeats that objective. The only way by which gems from the past can be passed on to the present and future generations is to offer download service. Our varsha-ji is helping by giving links from archives org for many a precious kruthi. All are downloadable. free. It ensures that the copies will be widely available in future. Someone or other will have it. Many sites like yahoo geocities were removed. Subsequently, quite a few sites were archived. but even those sites are for sale now. Great international companies have vanished ( SUN) . We must think, not of the present but of the generation in a century since the present. How very difficult it has become to get the records/concerts from the period 1930-1950! Streaming makes business sense for people who want to make money. but for others who want to preserve and share without profit motive, streaming audio is not the right choice. ( despite the cloud). Spread the music that we think worth preserving far and wide and free. and allow them to share. That is the only assurance that it will be preserved. Music must not be just for individual's listening but sharing freely with others too.

varsha
Posts: 1926
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by varsha » 13 Sep 2017, 15:03

Sangeethapriya is downloadable.There is absolutely no shortcoming with its services.
Its credentials are impeccable.
Rest of us cant be mentioned in the same breath as Sangeethapriya.

MaheshS
Posts: 861
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by MaheshS » 13 Sep 2017, 15:13

varsha wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 15:03
Sangeethapriya is downloadable.There is absolutely no shortcoming with its services.
Its credentials are impeccable.
To add, every song is downloadable from Sangeethapriya. Use the "Down" arrow.

I only wish they'd expose their database [just the content description not the actual file itself] via an API, so we can perform better search. At the mo, if I want to search for KVN with MSG on the violin OR KVN singing say Akshayalingavibho, it's impossible. I have some free time this December I think, I will email Sangethapriya admin to see if I can help in any way to make this possible.

CRama
Posts: 1911
Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by CRama » 13 Sep 2017, 17:31

In Sangeethapriya, you can search for a particular song by a musician. Under search window you go to the following link. You will get.

"To locate a track based on composer / raga / kriti / main artist /uploader , click here"

RSR
Posts: 392
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by RSR » 13 Sep 2017, 20:23

Sangeethapriya opening page states clearly
----------------------------------------------------------"
Sangeethapriya is a non commercial service for the exchange of Indian Classical Music for the sole purpose of research and education.This website is funded by contributions from music rasikas and is run as a not-for-profit initiative.
Rasikas can upload/download non commercial concert recordings to/from this website . You may share these as much as possible with others so we can reduce the load on the website.If you are looking for a commercial album, then this is not the place.The site is updated regularly. If you would like to be notified of updates to this website, you may join our Yahoo or Google discussion group. The links to these are at the top right corner of this page.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Pardon me. Perhaps my method of accessing was wrong. Specifically, I saw the page "https://www.sangeethapriya.org/tributes/dkp/index.htm'. and tried to access an upload by Raju Asokan. http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~/dkp/DKP ... irangu.mp3. . After login, I am unable to access... Can you guide me?

RSR
Posts: 392
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by RSR » 13 Sep 2017, 20:33

Nick-> 'You tube', has provision for muting the audio! Perhaps, we can retain the audio and 'hide' the video? Can the uploader provide for that option by the user? Has to be experimented.

RSR
Posts: 392
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by RSR » 13 Sep 2017, 21:18

How to embed youtube in our page and yet hide the video and hear the audio only? This may be the solution from the user or website viewpoint. Has to be tried in google-sites. https://rcdewebmasters.wordpress.com/20 ... ube-video/

Nick H
Posts: 8365
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by Nick H » 14 Sep 2017, 01:27

RSR wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 20:33
Nick-> 'You tube', has provision for muting the audio! Perhaps, we can retain the audio and 'hide' the video? Can the uploader provide for that option by the user? Has to be experimented.
Well, yes, like most PC-based media players, it has a volume control --- which can be set to zero.

Turning the video down to zero... I have a system where I can control the brightness of individual windows, so yes, I could do that on my PC. But, as I said before, there are lots of ways in which one can avoid actually looking at it anyway.

Youtube videos consist of a number of streams, for instance video of different resolutions and audio of different bitrates. Is it possible to just imbed the audio stream in another site? I don't know. But doing anything that is not as per youtube/google's wishes is a cat and mouse game: make something different this week, they will change it next. The youtube-dl software that I occasionally use has to be updated regularly.

varsha
Posts: 1926
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by varsha » 14 Sep 2017, 06:38

yet hide the video and hear the audio only?
Why not
JUST CLOSE YOUR EYES ? 8-)

Sachi_R
Posts: 433
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by Sachi_R » 14 Sep 2017, 09:07

Guys,
GOOGLE is pretty paranoid about how You Tube is used and works.
They methodically prevent anybody from streaming YT content through rival apps. They SIMPLY DO NOT ALLOW anyone to just stream the audio content from YT. I had installed apps from time to time for that, but they all were pulled down.
Most recently Google made Apple, yes, Apple apologise for an app on their store that allowed pure audio playback in background mode and also downloads. Apple pulled the app down.
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/04/yo ... app-store/

Quite simply, I hate You Tube for Carnatic music listening or playback. The only relevance is for live webcasts. And downloads ☺️

RSR
Posts: 392
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by RSR » 14 Sep 2017, 14:58

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 558794.ece
Very nice. I logged in with my facebook account and having chosen the artiste as D.K.PATTAMMAL and uploader as Eaju Asokna got some information links. but when I click on the link, again and again I am asked to log in. What gives?
where am I going wrong? Can varsha ji, Crama and Mahesh help me, please?

varsha
Posts: 1926
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by varsha » 14 Sep 2017, 16:36

Pls try logging in with gmail account.

Nick H
Posts: 8365
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Whats with these landscape visuals?

Post by Nick H » 14 Sep 2017, 17:27

varsha wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 06:38
yet hide the video and hear the audio only?
JUST CLOSE YOUR EYES ? 8-)
Right. It's called Appropriate Technology.

Some problems don't need a thousand man hours of analysis and programming and technology to solve!

:lol: :twisted: 8-) :D :idea:

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