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Meeting of Trinities

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thanjavooran
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Meeting of Trinities

Post by thanjavooran » 15 Apr 2010, 16:44

Recently I had the pleasure of listening the Harikatha CD by Shri TSB on MD captioned as Guruguha. He mentioned that MD during his visit to Thiruvaiyaru met Thyagaraja in his house and on seeing the idol of Sri Rama immediatly sang the Manirangu kriti Mamamava Pattabirama. Few years back TNS performed Harikatha on this subject. Was there any mention regarding this episode? Just curious to know whether any authentic information as regards to the meeting of the Trinities is available any where.

Thanjavooran

semmu86
Posts: 933
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:39

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by semmu86 » 15 Apr 2010, 20:41

Sri.Thanjavooran , there is a commercial recording of KalyAnapuram ArAvamudhAchAriAr's harikatha titled "Sangeetha Mummoorthigal" ( an absolute masterclass in the typical embAr style , pls do get a copy of it if possible ), where he says that the trinities have met each other quite a few times , but this incident i have not heard , and is not there in that harikatha recording though ..

cmlover
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by cmlover » 15 Apr 2010, 21:00

Perhaps MD composed 'Thyagaraja yoga vaibhavam...' (double-entendre) in aanandabhairavi out of the bliss (aananda) of meeting with Thyagaraja :D

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K » 15 Apr 2010, 22:21

According to many amateur musicologists I have spoken to over the years,Thyagaraja and Syama Sastry seem to have had some meetings.In one of the meetings Syama Sastry is purported to have plaintively asked Thygaraja WHY his (Sastry's) own compositions do not seem to evoke the same religious fervor that Thygarajas's do to which Thyagaraja is purported to have replied "It may be because you seem to be asking Devi for too many favors--whether he was serious or just kidding we have no way of knowing!!
However from several sources I have heard that Thygaraja and MD did NOT meet each other-- hence the story about Mamava Pattabhirama seems a little far-fetched. I would hasten to add I am NO SCHOLAR and forumites may spare me for my sacrilege in denying a piece of great history!!

1920veeyens
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Joined: 28 Mar 2010, 23:18

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by 1920veeyens » 16 Apr 2010, 05:23

lthough there are no recorded evidence for two greats meeting each other, yet in view of the extensive ) travels in those days by them Sri Dikshidar had travelled upto Varanasi and Sri Tyagaraja upto Tirupathi it is quite within the realms of probablity that these two would have met each other. veeyens

cmlover
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by cmlover » 16 Apr 2010, 07:49

Keep in mind 'Like poles repel'.
After all they were humans with human emotions as many events (glossed over by their shishyas) show!

arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by arasi » 16 Apr 2010, 08:16

Or, they might have wanted to very much but it didn't happen. Since it is wishful thinking on our part, we may want to believe in any account which says the two did meet. At least when it comes to GKB, I would be very disappointed if some scholar were to say that he did not meet T at all :(

This is for the Hilarity thread, really:

A: But that's history!
B: That's what I mean! HIs story |(
Last edited by arasi on 16 Apr 2010, 08:25, edited 1 time in total.

mohan
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Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by mohan » 16 Apr 2010, 08:23

Please see this article by Dikshitar scholar Sri VV Srivatsa which appeared in Sruti
http://www.sruti.com/downloads/Tyagaraj ... 20Meet.pdf

cmlover
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Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by cmlover » 16 Apr 2010, 20:24

Nice speculation!

semmu86
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Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by semmu86 » 16 Apr 2010, 20:28

mohan thanks for that link .

thanjavooran
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by thanjavooran » 16 Apr 2010, 21:08

Many thanks shri Mohan avl. for the link. V V Srivatsa's observation in support of TSB's statement as regards to Manirangu kriti establishes the intimacy between the two.
Thanjavooran

kns
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Joined: 07 May 2006, 06:31

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by kns » 18 Apr 2010, 01:50

cmlover wrote:Perhaps MD composed 'Thyagaraja yoga vaibhavam...' (double-entendre) in aanandabhairavi out of the bliss (aananda) of meeting with Thyagaraja :D
MD composed "Thyagaraja yoga vaibhavam" on lord Thyagarajar, main deity of the famous Thyagarajaswamy temple in Thiruvarur.

arasi
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Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by arasi » 18 Apr 2010, 06:25

There, CML ;)

thanjavooran
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Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by thanjavooran » 12 Jul 2012, 10:26

While browsing casually the Begada section in Ragas from the Lec Mus session by NSG ref
Lovely exposition on Subbaraya Sastri's masterpiece 'Sankari neeve' by Shri Neyveli :
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KTzrCl-eGvw
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=__pz0ozNjXk
I understand that Subbaraya shastri had learnt music from MD too. NSG would have mentioned with some authority only. Can any of our forumites further clarify?

Thanjavooran 12 07 2012

RaviSri
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Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by RaviSri » 12 Jul 2012, 11:55

There is a tradition in Veena Dhanammal's family (as told to me by T.Sankaran) that Shyama Sastri sent Subbaraya Sastri to Tiruvaiyyaru to learn from Thyagaraja. Dhanammal's grandmother Kamakshi learnt from Subbaraya Sastri (that's how the Sastri Trinitys' songs came to the family). The story of Subbaraya becoming Thyagaraja's disciple has come down from this fact. Shyama Sastri's descendants also tell this story, so it is quite possible.

Dikshitar came to Thanjavur and lived there in the 1820s to teach the Tanjore Quartette. He lived on the same West Street (mEla veedhi) where the Bangaru Kamakshi temple is and inside which Shyama Sastri lived. Dikshitar lived opposite the Sankara Mutt, in a house provided for him by the Quartette's father. All these buildings can still be seen in Thanjavur. Certainly Shyama Sastri and Dikshitar have met and there is evidence too, in the form of the srI ranjani varNam, 'sAmi ninnE kOri' (given in SSP, under 22nd mELa and srI ranjani)). The varNam was composed by Ramaswami Dikshitar. In the charanams, the second, third, and fourth swarams were composed by Shyama Sastri, Chinnaswami Dıkshitar, and Muthuswami Dıkshitar respectively . It is quite obvious that the two have met. There is also a tradition in Dhanammal's family that Subbaraya Sastri during this period learnt from Dikshitar too. He was the only one to have learnt from all the members of the Trinity. One can come across the styles of all the three of them in Subbaraya Sastri's compositions.

As for Thyagaraja-Dikshitar meeting there is absolutely no evidence, excepting that Dikshitar wrote 'Dharmasamvardani' on the Goddess of Tiruvaiyyaru. Also the Rama icon that Thyagaraja worshipped, and which is in Varahappier lane, Thanjavur now, answers exactly to the description given in mAmava paTTAbhirAmA as also to the Rama paTTAbhiShEka described in Valmiki Ramayana.

We (Sridhar and myself) had mentioned all this in our biography of Dikshitar (THe Eternal Pilgrim) on sangeetham.com about 10 years ago.

varsha
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Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by varsha » 12 Jul 2012, 17:42

How I wish we had Time Machines to go back and forth . Even If I had been a Lamp post on those streets , I would have found the experience tingling . The trinity in real flesh and blood !! The Gods must have been in great humor to have blessed that area and it surroundings with such bounties . What would our day today look like , without them ?

thanjavooran
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by thanjavooran » 13 Jul 2012, 20:25

RaviSri Avl,
Many thanx for your educative posting #15
with wishes,
Thanjavooran 13 07 2012

venkatakailasam
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Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 19:16

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by venkatakailasam » 13 Jul 2012, 21:07

post...RaviSri » 12 Jul 2012 11:55


The eternal Pilgrim by Shri Ravi And Sridar is here...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24710366/Sri- ... Deekshitar

Govindaswamy
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Joined: 21 Feb 2010, 06:55

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by Govindaswamy » 14 Jul 2012, 04:52

Is there a possibility that the descendents of Trinities have met and exchanged views about their renowned ancestors?
Regarding tyAgarAjA’s descendends I have collected the following information from (late) Pasupati, a purohit, who belonged to family of guruvamma, who was the wife of tyAgarAja swami’s grandson, named as tYAgarAjan. I was given to understand that some of his 5th generation descendends are living at tanjAvUr.
Govindaswamy

Thyagabrahmam----------1) sItAlaksmamma---2) kamalamma
MulakanADu- ¦ ¦
bharadwAja gOtram- X sItamma W/O kuppuswAmi
inTipEru-kAkarla ¦ kaunDiNya gOtram
tyAgarAjan- guruuvamma
¦
subrahmaNya jyOsyar-(---)
¦
Sundaramaiyar-lalitAmbAL
__________________________________________¦
¦ ¦ ¦ ¦
naTarAjan rAmamUrti subrahmaNyaiyar tyAgarAjaiyar

RaviSri
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Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Meeting of Trinities

Post by RaviSri » 14 Jul 2012, 19:12

Govindaswamy, Thyagaraja's grandson Thyagarajan and his wife Guruvammal did not have children. Thyagarajan (the grandson) died early, according to Subbarama Dikshitar, in his 35th year, which must probably be around 1865. After the death of Seethalakshmi, Thyagaraja's daughter, Gurvamma came to her ancestral house in Thanjavur in the year 1897, carrying the icon of Rama that Thyagaraja worshipped and a painting of Thyagaraja that a palace painter had painted. Both these are at Gurvammal's ancestral home on Varahappier lane in Thanajvur. The present caretaker of the icon is Sri.Thyagarajan who is a great grandson of Guruvammal's younger brother.

As for the meeting of descendants of the trinity, I have heard that Subbaraya Sastri and Sathanur Panachanada Iyer have met. The latter was a grand-disciple of Dikshitar. Otherwise, I am not aware of any of the descendants meeting.

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