Carnatic vs Hindusthani music

[cienu]

Incidentally, if it took me 6 months to learn that 1+2 = 3, my Math teacher would have advised my parents to put me in an institution for the mentally retarded

Apologise for going off topic.
Years ago, that was a clinical diagnosis used to describe people with intellectual disability. However in today's world the word “retarded” has morphed into a slur and especially hurtful for parents who have to hear their child described in this manner."Differently abled" or "Special Children" would be a more acceptable way of putting it across.

[chitravina ravikiran]

Ravikiran tells us that Pandit Ravi Shankar was highly critical of Carnatic musicians in private. Did that comment include Ravikiran himself?

Here's my original statement.

1. Pt Ravishankar pleasantly surprised me with his in-depth analysis of CM legends incl. ARI, MVI, GNB, SSI, Brinda and others. "I got sold to CM only because of Veena Dhanammal," he said. His points were generally spot-on, even from a strictly objective Carnatic point of view.

With the names I mentioned, it should be obvious Pandit ji was discussing legends of his generation. Nowhere do I find the phrase "highly critical" in my post.

The point here was obviously that every HM artiste is not blindly dismissive of CM, as the initial post implied.

Secondly, today the communication between HM and CM artistes is considerably more and there is much better understanding and immense respect from many of them about CM nuances.

Finally, it's not so much about HM artistes opinions alone. CM has to be impeccable on its own right for both CM and non-CM audiences to appreciate it. This is not impossible - one can be globally appreciated without compromising CM-centric values. It can come about if artistes are strong on CM-specific content with international standards of delivery.

I completely agree with VK's point about right and wrong oscillation. This was precisely the point that Pt Ajoy Chakraborthy ji made during the Utter-Dakshin conference in Chennai. I countered it with some examples and he immediately acknowledged that CM oscillation sounded great when 'pure'. (The degree of correctness of oscillation is directly proportional to one's understanding and execution of the amplitude, speed and number of times it has to be oscillated in each context. Most people rely on instincts for this but a good guru can also intellectualize it and demonstrate it for students to acquire it as a skill over time.)

[munirao2001]

Time is now for finding correct answers raised by Harimau. I request Smt.Narmada, who has had the benefit of learning, training and practicing both the systems of Indian Classical Music and one of the performer with immense potential and proven credentials-both theory and practice of classical music, to list out the major and minor -1) Commonality and 2) differences in theory. Also share the knowledge in practices-Vocal and instrumental. The listeners perspectives for enjoyment, will be a bonus.
No doubt there are written text available on this subject. If percussion performer members can share knowledge pertaining to both the systems, we will be having reference materials for students like me.

munirao2001

[varsha]

https://archive.org/details/JhinjotiDin ... tKumarsRes

brilliant jinjhoti by dinkar kaikini
courtesy lakshmanji

[sankark]

But coming to acoustics and sound balance, I see the tanpura getting a mic in many Hindustani concerts. Do we get such niceties even in today's CM concerts?

Interesting thread & I seem to not have read this at all.

Please bear with me, to go back to basics.

Why need a tambura at all? I already am doing - https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is ... +a+tambura - and reading through a result @ https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-use-o ... a-in-music. So no U(se)T(he)F(no-need-to-elaborate)G(oogle) please, a la RTFM.

If a musician has an innate sense of sruti and thus swarasthanam and in CM milieu a swaram in its all grandeur including various sthanams/gamakams it can take for a given rAgam, (a) it seems having a tambura could be counter productive in a performance as it can go out of tune (and geometrically worse as the # of tamburas increase) and thus needs retuning and readjusting all pakka vadyams (b) create a sense of doubt to the artiste(s) & listeners due to a faith (blind?) that the tambura is producing the right sruti/swaram whereas musician is out of tune?

Request to keep the tradition/sound is rich/divine/creates a divine atmosphere etc. reasons out.

[KNV1955]

Recently overheard conversation between two scholars who also teach CM (not performing artists). Quoting from the conversation "Some critics of CM make a big deal of Voice Culture; Sruti suddham; Sthana Suddam etc. CM has so many aspects, mere focus on Voice culture;vocalisation; Sruti, sthana perfection will make it bland like HM!". Should we Cry or laugh at such views. Some more comments “shaking swaras is unique to CM & makes for good raga bhava, while singing in perfect sruti lacks in bhava and soukhyam". This is the view held by University level teachers of Carnatic Music.

[shankarank]

"Some critics of CM make a big deal of Voice Culture; Sruti suddham; Sthana Suddam etc. CM has so many aspects, mere focus on Voice culture;vocalisation; Sruti, sthana perfection will make it bland like HM!"

.

They said that much?! Silent on laya .. hmm... Now the critics want more - not just Sruthi Shuddam.. but a perfectly equalized distribution of harmonics i.e. a rich tone too! More falling like a half Bell Curve!

For that an entire community of people - even if they don't have any knowledge of music - must gain musical sense by repeatedly exposing themselves to good music ( at whatever level available in their era). Even if they don't like this and that about the music if they have even a slightly positive disposition towards it on whatever basis - sanskriti, heritage , divine - they must commit themselves.

Let me pontificate from my lofty ivory tower - they don't have any right to take away the potential for musicality from their yet to be born descendants! How else a future Mom in their lineage would take the child to a worthy Guru and at least spot a mistake with the child @ home and ask the Guru to correct it?!

They cannot keep away from instrumental music and also not be walking away during Mridangam/Ghatam/Kanjira/Morsing expositions!

Only then in 100 or 200 years we could be seeing another MSS / MMI/ Somu etc! That must have been how mInAkshi kaTAksham must have worked!

https://qz.com/866352/scientists-say-yo ... your-body/

Stuff for our systems biologists like VK to expound on!

This is the view held by University level teachers of Carnatic Music

Reminds me of a comment I heard from Sri SVK @ Naada Inbam - early this millenium before Bhushany Kalyanaraman began her concert.

She went to the music college first thinking she'll learn some music ( sangItam kiDaikkum appaDinnu kAlEjukku mudalla pOnAL!)

I remember her smile!

[KNV1955]

The two teachers are not performing artists. I would guess they are vocalists with rather bad voices who hide their poor voices and form behind such claims.

[varsha]

https://archive.org/details/SaraswatiAm ... karGwAlior

a nice example of cm exporting to hm - natygeeth