TMK on Brindamma's music

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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kvchellappa
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Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

TMK on Brindamma's music

Post by kvchellappa »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZeSeCg25FY
(1:05 to 1:20)
He throws up some interesting ideas on creativity, chowka kalam of Brindamma, lakshana/lakshya aspects of music, etc.

SrinathK
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Re: TMK on Brindamma's music

Post by SrinathK »

I heard one padam sung by Brinda Mukta one day ... Paiyada (Nadanamakriya) -- It opened another dimension in my CM awareness.

Let's put it like this, after hearing Vadarakapoove in Kambhoji, I thought that the entire raga had been exhausted to the point where, "Idukku mEla innum kAmbhojila enna pADratukku irukku?" -- in any case, my brain was done with Kambhoji that day.

And now I have hunted every source on the net and obtained almost all that I think is out there of Brinda Mukta's available recorded music (35 concerts and numerous other recordings) including what's available of their trinity krithis. And for 2 weeks now, I haven't listened to anyone else nearly as much. Man, what depth!

I could keep going on, but every new piece I hear with B&M is a new revelation to me.

But yes, the man hits the nail on this particular point which I have observed -- how much does the mridangam control the energy level of a rendition and where does flexible time lie within Carnatic Music. Maybe someday when I get time I will write about it in the musicians' section.

munirao2001
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Re: TMK on Brindamma's music

Post by munirao2001 »

KVC Sir,
I listened to Sri TMK's speech on Brindamma. He cleverly brings in his dogmas and tries to establish with the identity of Brindamma and her music.
TMK on Creativity, lakshya and lakshana, 'interesting ideas'. No Sir. It is spoken interestingly. Creativity and re creativity, re creativity afresh by the performing musician; lakshana is experience codified lakshya are both well established in musicology and practice. On kalapramanam, the cognizance related with aiding and abetting rhythm is highlighted very well.
Dhanammal's music was 'Sadas Music'. Brindamma-Muktamma's music was judicious balancing of 'Sadas' and 'Sabha' music. Relatively higher emphasis for sowkhyam in vilambam; expertise in handling ati vilambam; mastery in madhyama, with tilt towards vilambam; discomfort in turita are its special characteristics. Their 'extra' elongation in vocalizing the verbal and related intonation were identified as over emphasis of 'chowka kalam' by the uninitiated rasikas, who constitute the majority and also contribute to the popularity.

munirao2001

kvchellappa
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Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: TMK on Brindamma's music

Post by kvchellappa »

I agree he casts Brindamma in the mould of his 'discovery.' But, the issues he raises are interesting, rather than whether Brindamma fits into them. I am happy to read Srinathk's comments and would look forward to his learned comments on mridanga and music. I also thought someone might give comments on creativity and lakshana-lakshya dichotomy. If I get him right, creativity is reproducing the same aesthetic experience over and over anew. i wonder whether it undermines the very substance of manodharma. At the end of the day, there cannot be something new reeled out every time you sing, but it is not the same thing also every time. I also see no dichotomy in lakshana and lakshya and I wonder whether any musically mature person ever saw the two as pitted against each other. As there are many in the forum with a flair and high attainment, I thought it could bring out some of the finer points.

SrinathK
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Re: TMK on Brindamma's music

Post by SrinathK »

Yes, some of the raga phrases that the Dhannamal school tends to use are unusual. Their handling of the Ga in Ahiri is one example, or singing a N2 in Gowlipantu or a M2 in Paras or how they sometimes brought in a N-S phrase in Mukhari. Their version of Andhali also is the old version with a G2 whereas the more modern version (even in the SSP) uses a G3, sounding almost like Janarajani at times. That doesn't make it less beautiful -- it is part expression bending the rules, partially also due to the evolution of ragas.

My own understanding is that creativity in kalpana and kalpita music needs to be seen differently in each.

In the case of B&M, you never get stale of their renditions. This ideal is closer to that of many western musicians and their stylistic preferences of playing their music (which is almost entirely composed, improvisation has vanished from WCM) -- some players experimented playing differently - changing tempos, techniques, patterns, left and right hand variations, etc.. Others having settled into one formula, made it their signature with only minor variations that occur from concert to concert.

But yes, one aspect of creativity in music is that when it is done right, it brings you into a really inspired space. There are only paradigms and no "one way to do it" -- it's how well you do it that counts.

I hope you are aware that manodharma also can get into standard phrases and patterns. Yes.

Btw, it seems that what's more important at times is not what so and so thinks of someone's music. Rather the statement gives us an incentive to examine it ourselves and come to our own conclusions and deepen our own experience of music. Probably this is the aim of making such statements -- to get people to think and observe, even if it crosses the line of provoking. At the end of the day, it will not probably be remembered what someone had said about someone else, but we are not going to forget our own learnings.

munirao2001
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Re: TMK on Brindamma's music

Post by munirao2001 »

KVC Sir,

I had posted in few threads on 'Creativity' and 'manodharma'. I did clarify and share with the expert panelists on ' TMK-Symposium on Manodharma Sangeetham' of SRLKM. TMK has spoken on creativity with this understanding. I am posting here once again for your ready reference and information on aspects of 'Creativity', 'Manodharma', Lakshya & lakshana.
1. Creativity is of original, anew,kalpana, not existing and discovery in acceptance and endorsement. Its practice, kalpita, premeditated. In practice of premeditated, kalpana, it is re creativity, either not original but its variants or sense of mind in unity with the composer, values of original compositions presented, afresh with the original flame burning, resulting in recall pleasure. In Western Classical Music, it is 'improvisation'. In absence of practitioners unity with the original values, it is rendering of kalpita, the premeditated and repetitive with lesser ideal and value.

2. Manodharma, is sense of mind in creativity or re creativity with conformance and righteousness for the lakshya and lakshana of art form. New sangati ornamentation, change in laya/kalapramanam, chittasvarams etc, afresh with new aesthetic experience of sahithya and raga bhavam, its values in line with the original composer's original creativity is mano (sense of mind in imagination and creativity) dharma (righteousness). It does not undermine the manodharma. It is reverential, with rasanubhuti.

3. Lakshya and Lakshanam aspects. Lakshya has resulted in lakshana, with codification, grammar and rules to establish the lakshya for its practice. Lakshana has also resulted in lakshya, in exceptional cases and are in practice. Primacy in Indian Classical Music Systems is for lakshya and its rasanubhuti, in determination and establishment for any transgression by the practitioner. Lakshya is experience in abstraction, subjective and lakshana is explanation of experience, objective, becoming knowledge.

kvchellappa
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Re: TMK on Brindamma's music

Post by kvchellappa »

Thank you, sir.

kvchellappa
Posts: 3598
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: TMK on Brindamma's music

Post by kvchellappa »

As I read this by Bernard Shaw (the other is Arthur Bingham Walkley), "we two, cradled in the same new sheets, made an epoch in the criticism of the theatre and the opera house by making it a pretext for a propaganda of our own views of life." I remembered the speech referred to in this post.

shankarank
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Re: TMK on Brindamma's music

Post by shankarank »

So finally I got some backing for what I had wanted to say for a long time.

So far in the presentation ( ARI, SSI ) some nyAsams, stAyis , kala pramANam were discussed. When Brindamma's turn came - even within vilamba kAla neraval the placement of syllables is being noticed and discussed.

Sumitra Vasudev proves herself to be a complete musician (& musicologist) by that observation.

https://youtu.be/PPXfmHBKcSE?t=1242
Placement of syllables itself provides an illusion of some elaborate neravals being done.
This is from I guess the 1975 or so MA concert. T. Ranganathan is on mridangam and every stressful syllable (nam for example) is atItam in his approach as he tries to meet the sAhitya syllable in samams and some sprinkling of toppi majestic sound!

Mridangam might seem like just to be following - but makes its mark - no less due to the conviction exhibited on time scale by the gayikAs!

Referring to the full recording in sangItapriya:

A re-affirmation will be heard in sAdhu janOpEda Sankara navanIta - taLa kriyA positions are not explicitly acknowledged - but mAtra integrity leaves no doubt where the tAla kriyAs are. That exudes the underlying viSrAnti of the sAhitya - canopied smoothly by the wealth of rAga, subtling(hiding) the tala kriyAs - the supporting poles!

Finally the icing on the cake as they round out : saccitA nanda maya - nanda maya is handled in a vervy kanTam pattern ( in the normal catusra nadai) to reach eduppu - without any ado!

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