abhiprAya sangItam

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shankarank
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abhiprAya sangItam

Post by shankarank »

Few quotes from melam72 raises some thoughts!
melam72 wrote: 26 Mar 2017, 13:02 Although, an unintended side effect will be that 'Breathless- by Ashok Ramani' type concerts will become the norm.
melam72 wrote: 16 Mar 2017, 08:18 Why else would they give Trichur Ramachandran a mike?
There are certain venues that have the wherewithal to project abhiprAya sangItam. And Cleveland of all places has to be one! It is possible that sometimes old musicians like Muktamma and RKS would be able to give an appealing presentation. And how much avidly did people seek them out in their hey days in Chennai for example!

Same vein - namma romba Brindamma sangItatayum MDR sangItatayum rasichuTTOmOlliyO :evil:

But sometimes that may not be possible by less older/younger musicians even!

For example we know that NSG has voice trouble as well in higher stAyi - this was more than 10 years back, I could just enjoy the kAlapramANam the entire concert - what with Rohan on the mridangam using the opportunity to present his sense of flow as well starting from the varNam itself! I was doing taLam peacefully and loosely enjoying the layam.

As regards TVR, during his post sangIta kalanidhi tour - initial part was done by all 3 of them - giving a slow sedate rendition. Only thing I was unhappy about was muruganin maru peyar azaghu - Smt Charumati took a bell and started playing it for tAlam. Then TVR solo began for 2nd half - he started vervy Sri mahaganaptiravatumAm and a main a Purandara dasa composition in SankarabaraNam - a suitable one - that brought out his katchitam so well - that made me think - a populist music of yore now sounds hard core conservative. World Moves - reacted a friend when I shared this with him.

I think for a venue like Cleveland - he would still have something to share with listeners irrespective of the state of his voice.

There was once a TVG that showed up - same year as Muktamma & RKS were also there - every body else sang everything else - but he was the only one there to do a couple of tyAgaraja kritis - a rare gambIravANi - satA matim ( which while requesting I misspoke as gambIranATTai - he corrected me - I remember)!

Ashok Ramani the Mridangist as well, will have an idea or two as well to share!

melam72
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by melam72 »

shankarank wrote: 26 Mar 2017, 21:25 As regards TVR, during his post sangIta kalanidhi tour - initial part was done by all 3 of them - giving a slow sedate rendition. Only thing I was unhappy about was muruganin maru peyar azaghu - Smt Charumati took a bell and started playing it for tAlam. Then TVR solo began for 2nd half - he started vervy Sri mahaganaptiravatumAm and a main a Purandara dasa composition in SankarabaraNam - a suitable one - that brought out his katchitam so well - that made me think - a populist music of yore now sounds hard core conservative. World Moves - reacted a friend when I shared this with him.
I still believe that it was Charumathi who deserved that Sangeetha Kalanidhi.

Just look at her credentials versus his! She is an accomplished composer, her music is technically perfect, she seldom panders to her audience, and she revitalised the art of Pallavi rendition in the 70s and 80s.

Gurubhakthi is not everything; you need genuine talent, and you need to have thozhil-dharmam. Charumathi has all three, TVR has only one.

Coming to TVR's music: it is unimpressive, it is ordinary, and he frequently goes off shruti. His voice is unremarkable and unmelodious. His brigas are but pale imitations of that of GNB. And yet, it is he who gets more slots.

This is not abhiprayam (opinion). This is unmai (truth).

The music of, say, Vedavalli or Brinda Mukta or RK Srikantan had purity, yet they did so much within the constraints they imposed within them. And we are still talking about them. Permutations of them and their peers have been featured in Cleveland; not for their performance quality, which deteriorates (like everyone's does, with age), but for their authoritative singing, mind-boggling kalpita sangeetham, and sticking to their guns. They don't perform for others, but they do so for themselves.

TVR, unfortunately, doesn't fall in the category, in my opinion. He, to me, sings to the galleries.

And as for no one seeking out Muktha or MDR - why would they, when musicians like Bombay Sisters and Radha Jayalakshmi would provide them bhajans for the Bovine to graze upon?

(Again, this is all my abhiprayam. Chew on this, but if you regurgitate, it is your loss, not mine)

shankarank
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by shankarank »

melam72 wrote: 27 Mar 2017, 07:46
I still believe that it was Charumathi who deserved that Sangeetha Kalanidhi.

Just look at her credentials versus his! She is an accomplished composer, her music is technically perfect, she seldom panders to her audience, and she revitalised the art of Pallavi rendition in the 70s and 80s.

....

This is not abhiprayam (opinion). This is unmai (truth)
It is not as if I have not heard Smt Charumathi before her U.S visits - she sang couple of years in my locality in Madurai - but I was a child sitting thru tyAgaraja utsavams - so I would not have understood much.

I have heard her in Dayton early 2000s - my impression was she was a blank performer - no ruchi in her singing - may be that's what you mean by she does not pander to the gallery?.

Somebody very close to music circles remarked after the concert that she is a great vidushi but she does not practice that much. Now you are putting me in a dharma sankaTam. Ideally I would like to not judge women artistes for performance effectiveness - especially Women in family etc - because they have too much to bear other than music - a child birth will take away their breathing effectiveness - diaphragm etc - I also am a believer in their (specific) divinity post that event - not that they are NOT before that - for e.g kanya pUja!

I have to say these things in response to your too strong comments which you should have thought about before you posted.

Just to be sure I just listened to few recordings ( Sorry I did not have the motivation to listen to her due to that Dayton experience) - I listened to just run of the mill tyAgaraja kriti renditions - ni Bhajana gAna, niravadi sukada etc - I am sorry to say - in spite of their weakness in voice or breathability - if they cannot provide ruchi at any age - using tyAgaraja's viSranti - I am not sure I would get into even considering their technical capabilities , pallavi etc. They can miss tAlam by slowing down fine, slip a note - fine - they cannot not acknowledge the viSranti in tyagaraja - that should be in their bones and it is a life time work signature!

May be this what TMK means by - we don't accept females if they don't sing like males? Well you asked for it by comparing her technicalities to that of TVR!

But then how come "we" accepted the other Women names you mentioned - and in addition the Bhakti / Bhajanai of MSS in her later years. So "we" cannot include all the women folk ( men folks too ;) ) who appreciated all of this? It has to be the experts committee and the wizards of Mylapore only? Or the snubbing snobs - the muzhu chApATTu reviewer from Mylapore who writes reviews like - idukku svaram pOdala - adukku neraval paNNala etc.?

So that is my version of Truth if you will!
melam72 wrote: 27 Mar 2017, 07:46 His brigas are but pale imitations of that of GNB
kArvai pesalEnnalum adaiyAvatu ozhunga senjAr! Reminds me of TNK's reply to somebody saying he imitates dwaram - "I am flattered!".

If you want technical weaknesses of TVR I will give one more - he has a rush into arudhi - speeds up - but somehow he makes it not matter to us. It matters to mridangists - as they have to pause and see how it goes before entering the fray many times!
TVR, unfortunately, doesn't fall in the category, in my opinion. He, to me, sings to the galleries.
Ramachandrans both of them cannot be on the same line as the term Gallery - not that TVR may not have pandered. You may have better information - but based on my data which is NOT from 70s / 80s - Mylapore / Bangalore , he had also sung for 4 people in Maryland - where they waited for people to come for an hour too. If he was indeed immensely popular in Meccas of music - or the gallery was that much filled - I don't think the captial zone in U.S even in 80s will bring 4 people to his concert.

I have heard him with UKS @ CLT in Chennai too early 90s / late 80s - it was only spottily filled - and there were two tanis. I have seen CLT fill better for many other artistes who are not the popular ones ! May be you are right he doesn't sing that good and people know probably ;)

melam72
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by melam72 »

shankarank wrote: 27 Mar 2017, 09:18 very close to music circles remarked after the concert that she is a great vidushi but she does not practice that much. Now you are putting me in a dharma sankaTam. Ideally I would like to not judge women artistes for performance effectiveness - especially Women in family etc - because they have too much to bear other than music - a child birth will take away their breathing effectiveness - diaphragm etc - I also am a believer in their (specific) divinity post that event - not that they are NOT before that - for e.g kanya pUja!
One listens to Charumathi for the same reason why one listens to Vedavalli or Neela Ramagopal. As performers, they are unremarkable (and, in the case of Neela mami, with all due respect, unimpressive), but it is their technical brilliance which makes them shine.

Charumathi's guru, MLV, also sang popular krithis, but can we ever accuse MLV of bhajanai? Oh no! She is over 60 AND dead! The Mylapore mamis will come after you with jalli karandis blazing in the air, muttering Vishnu Sahasranamam!

Probably that is Charumathi's biggest flaw, that she doesn't practice often, especially after her career was eclipsed (is the usage of the word appropriate?) by hubby dearest. Probably she thinks she can do an MLV of composing pallavis on the way to the concert. But she has great potential, and she has rendered yeoman service, also as a tunesmith ( she was the one who tuned Baro Krishnayya and Om Namo Narayana). She brought out old compositions too (MLV learnt the Chaturdasha Ragamalika from Charumathi when the latter was a student in Queen Mary's).

melam72
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by melam72 »

You also may have noticed that I haven't talked about Ashok Ramani at all. There is a simple reason for that.

Read the sentence above aloud, and notice how many times you breathed. Ashok Ramani probably would breathe in between every single word.

He will never take our breath away, because he himself has no breath in the first place!

melam72
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by melam72 »

shankarank wrote: 27 Mar 2017, 09:18 But then how come "we" accepted the other Women names you mentioned - and in addition the Bhakti / Bhajanai of MSS in her later years. So "we" cannot include all the women folk ( men folks too ;) ) who appreciated all of this? It has to be the experts committee and the wizards of Mylapore only? Or the snubbing snobs - the muzhu chApATTu reviewer from Mylapore who writes reviews like - idukku svaram pOdala - adukku neraval paNNala etc.?
I don't know about others, but I judge female and male performers using the same criteria.

It doesn't matter that the Priya sisters slip a note, or if Sirkazhi Sivachindambaram 'sings'. I will attend both 'concerts' for the express purpose of informing others of their demerits, to convert some Cows back into humans.

PS: I cannot accept MS Subbulakshmi's bhakti bhajanais as Karnataka Sangeetham in the first place. Unlike the parochial Ammanji mamas of Mylapore who turn into Union Finance ministers every February and Subbudus every December, I try to be as equitable as possible

RaviSri
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by RaviSri »

she was the one who tuned Baro Krishnayya and Om Namo Narayana). She brought out old compositions too (.
MLV sang bArO kriShNayyA in 1966 itself. It has been recorded in the LP which was released in 1965. Charumati was not even singing behind MLV at that time.
MLV learnt the Chaturdasha Ragamalika from Charumathi when the latter was a student in Queen Mary's)
This is simply not true. Who started and spread this canard can be guessed. MLV personally told me (I knew her from 1978 thro her death in 1990) that she learnt the chaturdasa rAgamAlikA from the Oriental Notation of that song of Chinnasamy Mudaliar. Much later, after her death, musicologist Dr N.Ramanathan told me the same thing, that MLV learnt the rAgamAlikA from the Oriental Notation.

devan
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by devan »

Well said Ravi(Sridhar). Some people think they are the ultimate authority in Carnatic music. Passing comments about md,Thyagarajar. Kurai Kooram koothadum.

devan
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Re: abhiprAya sangItamk

Post by devan »

Kurai Kudam koothadum

melam72
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by melam72 »

RaviSri wrote: 27 Mar 2017, 18:30
she was the one who tuned Baro Krishnayya and Om Namo Narayana). She brought out old compositions too (.
MLV sang bArO kriShNayyA in 1966 itself. It has been recorded in the LP which was released in 1965. Charumati was not even singing behind MLV at that time.
MLV learnt the Chaturdasha Ragamalika from Charumathi when the latter was a student in Queen Mary's)
This is simply not true. Who started and spread this canard can be guessed. MLV personally told me (I knew her from 1978 thro her death in 1990) that she learnt the chaturdasa rAgamAlikA from the Oriental Notation of that song of Chinnasamy Mudaliar. Much later, after her death, musicologist Dr N.Ramanathan told me the same thing, that MLV learnt the rAgamAlikA from the Oriental Notation.
I read about Chaturdasha Ragamalika being taught to her by Charumathi. Probably Charumathi learnt from Oriental Notation, I'm not sure.

Same for Baro Krishnayya. This is what I've heard on the grapevine.

RaviSri
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by RaviSri »

grapevine propaganda or propaganda grapevine, is of course, more popular than facts, especially if the guru is dead and gone.

shankarank
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by shankarank »

Charumathi's guru, MLV, also sang popular krithis, but can we ever accuse MLV of bhajanai? Oh no! She is over 60 AND dead! The Mylapore mamis will come after you with jalli karandis blazing in the air, muttering Vishnu Sahasranamam!
As regards Mylapore jalli karandis – worse things have already been said about the place by TMK so if the karanDis have not shown up yet – I am not too much bothered.

Good words like Bhajanai have been given pejorative meaning, even as the same place that defined what we want to call as karnATaka sangItam also fostered that same thing with zeal! Just like the words tIRtam, agni hOtram, now panDit , mantra are MBA buzz words, and finally the word devadAsi!

For that Mylapore deserves all the beating it is getting. Iduvum vENum innamum vENum!

MLV had her forte - but there are things one can say in a critique. A rendition of gItArtamu when vIti bhajanai ends in the Hanuman sannidhi will have more ruchi than her SrI venkata girISam and angArakam ASrayAmyaham. vAtAtmajuniki bhAga telusura – sangitAnandamu! On the other hand I would definitely accept her muruganin maru peyar azaghu as karnATaka sangItam - not sure if people will buy tickets if only such songs are to be presented in a concert - assuming that's what determines if something is karnATaka sangItam or not. Well an entirely different set of audience may buy tickets without asking questions like whether it is kaRnATaka sangItam or not - and it might have been a block buster too if one such event were to be advertised and organized! And some curious cynical onlookers from knowledgeable crowd cannot resist going into it as well! :twisted:

And I would encourage the cows to attend as well – get some groove into music!

That said I know she had her forte - she explores all contours - permutes and combines and even responds with a pancamuki for BMK's navamuki. And people like U Srinivas avidly listened to her ( he wouldn’t allow any one to speak a word in the vehicle if MLV is playing on the dashboard) and harvested the melody for their purposes!

Finally I would say if some purists think that GNB school fundamentally transformed ( in a way not to their liking!) Carnatic music - like Obama fundamentally transformed America - it was operationalized through artistes like MLV. I don't know if this is a feminine take on music – it is more her gift of voice and experimentation. I don't think thats what people like TMT or Ramnad would have meant when they taught their female students that they have to sing in a specific way.

My view is that she buttressed the idea that music is only melody - a fad that already started gaining ground in Golden era – a half baked western pop import into Indian thinking – something not present in the slow or fast version of kshetragna or dasas of kaRnATaka or even in Abhangs that made their way from Maharashtra – and not certainly in the Trinity and not certainly in tamizhisai!

Lets create a new name “CM” a trade mark like AT&T or small at&t where the expansion has been given up. Now don’t expand it as classical music, will you ;) .

If I don’t belong in the front rows, or middle rows I am happy to be in the Gallery – or if you want you can give me a balcony seat separate from everybody!

It is also interesting that you brought more names like Smt. Neela Ramgopal and Smt. Vedavalli into the mix to do a group push for your argument. Former has TK Rangachari in her pedigree just like Vedavalli has Mudikondan in hers – but still lot different between themselves and much different from what Charumati is. Will write separately.
Last edited by shankarank on 28 Mar 2017, 22:53, edited 3 times in total.

shankarank
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by shankarank »

And I certainly support Smt. Charumati being given a slot in addition to TVR and Ashok Ramani - and I would go and listen esp. @ Cleveland - not with any condescending attitude. It is not as if I want Ashok Ramani to be raved about everywhere and to get concert slots everywhere - we are talking about a specific festival like Cleveland!

SriKrishnan
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by SriKrishnan »

The music for 'Baro Krishnayya ' was composed by Sri T.K. Govinda Rao

srini_pichumani
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by srini_pichumani »

RaviSri,

I hold no brief for Charumathi, but I do not think there is any need to spread canards or suggest the opposite in a facile manner !!!

Sruti magazine had reported that MLV obtained the notation from Charumati before she left for a Madurai concert and got herself ready to present it over the course of her journey and shortly after. It is also a fact that the Triveni LP recording of MLV singing this rAgamAlika was released in 1977 with Charumathi singing in the background.

This book "Oriental Music in Europeon (sic) notation" was not reprinted till 1982 by Gowri Kuppuswamy and Hariharan and it is hardly likely that most folks -- musicians or otherwise -- would have had easy access to the original issues from the 1890s. The Sruti account thus seems reasonable in this regard and does no violence to what you heard from MLV herself.

As for "bArO krSNayya", indeed I have heard the same as SriKrishnan -- from TKG Sir himself, that he tuned it.

Best regards,
-Srini.

ps: At least one song popularized by MLV -- pAyum oLi nI enakku -- was tuned by Charumathi. Kanyakumari has herself mentioned this in the Sruti special on MLV... that Charumathi set the rAgamAlika tune, but in catusram... MLV liked the tune but adapted it to tisram and sang it.

sureshvv
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by sureshvv »

Attended a lec-dem by Charumathi this past weekend on Dikshitar kritis where she said she had learnt the 14 ragamalika from her music dept. teacher at Queen Mary's (think her name was Padma) who was a direct student of the person who had notated it (forget his name). May be someone who attended could fill in the details.

kvchellappa
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by kvchellappa »

As grapevine is permitted, I heard this in grapevine, that Charumathi claimed it was she who taught Sudha and not MLV really!

melam72
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by melam72 »

kvchellappa wrote: 29 Mar 2017, 14:51 As grapevine is permitted, I heard this in grapevine, that Charumathi claimed it was she who taught Sudha and not MLV really!
I never knew Charumathi had this side to her!

Perhaps some grape wine will fix it all? :lol: :lol: :lol:

rshankar
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by rshankar »

There are so many vines in this thread, all we need now is a Tarzan- oh wait! We have him too, don't we??!! ;)

RaviSri
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by RaviSri »

I am not spreading any canard, nor suggesting anything facile. I go by what MLV herself told me. I listened to the ragamalika for the first time in 1985 or 86. And it was the recording. I have never heard MLV sing it in concerts and I have not missed a single MLV concert right from 1973 December to 1989 December, in Madras including the ones in Sastri Hall and even weird places like the street Vinayaka temple in Saidapet. After I listened to the recording when she came to visit my neighbour, as she usually did once every month, I asked her about it. She said, "oriental notationlErndu pADam paNNinEn". The book obviously, being reprinted in 1972 as you say, was available to MLV. How does the Sruti report, which was obviously supplied by Charumati, corroborate what MLV told me, I don't understand.

Years later, in 1996 or so, when I met Dr N.Ramanathan, he also told me that he had heard that MLV had learnt the ragamalika from the Oriental Notation. I too have nothing against Charumati but I detest her attitude towards her own guru, that's all. It is simply not given in our tradition. I have come across such people in the music field, unfortunately, having lived in the heart of music country, Mylapore for 18 years. That of people talking ill of their gurus and even bluffing that they did not study with their gurus, when the whole Carnatic music world would have known whose disciple they were. At least Charumati does not say this I suppose and just stopped with saying that it was she who had taught her guru the ragamalika (I knew about this claim in the 1990s itself, almost immediately after MLV passed away. Given MLV's largeheartedness and having known her personally for many years and her character, I am not able to tolerate these falsehoods. That's all.

arasi
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by arasi »

As with rishi mUlam and nadi mUlam (the origin of rishis and rivers), authentic grapevine sources are hard to find.Those who are restless with such ambiguity in history (even recent history) have to put up with it :)

Thanks to veterans like RaviSri and Srini when they care to share with us their in depth experience in music and the world of music. They are known for their sense of decorum, and their sensitive and sensible input...

shankarank
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by shankarank »

rshankar wrote: 29 Mar 2017, 18:31 There are so many vines in this thread, all we need now is a Tarzan- oh wait! We have him too, don't we??!! ;)
I am so tarzan - that I had to look it up : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarzan ;)

I have company in Vikku sir who asked an interviewer what is this Super Singer - to which a family member of mine remarked - ivALLam enda ulahattulE irukkA? :lol:

srini_pichumani
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by srini_pichumani »

Please, the book was not available in 1972. It was reprinted in 1982 full five years after MLV's Triveni LP which features this ragamalika was released.

On one thing we can perhaps agree -- MLV's delectable rendition ! My friend Raghavan (then in Purdue, now in MatScience) and I absolutely treasured her rendition and had a C90 tape with 1 side featuring 3 continuous recordings of this kriti.

-Srini.

ps: Years later I listened to several other renditions of this kriti -- first from the trio of musicians who learnt it at the Music College... TRS, followed by TKG, and then SRJ !!! Also, Prof.SR's rendition on LP with Robert Gottlieb's extensive sleevenotes. Despite sounding rushed due to space constraints, it is striking.

Kalpagam mami's rendition of course is the terminus ad quem for me ! There is just no way a voice can come up to the precision of her strings as she weaves through the ragamalika. Unfortunately I don't have a good recording of her version.

sureshvv
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by sureshvv »

In her lec-dem Charumathi mentioned another controversy with the 14 ragamalika - if the swara sahitya was indeed part of the composition. She mentioned that some experts had opined that it was not the case, but that both MLV and the original notation had the swara sahitya.

sureshvv
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by sureshvv »

rshankar wrote: 29 Mar 2017, 18:31 There are so many vines in this thread, all we need now is a Tarzan- oh wait! We have him too, don't we??!! ;)
Yep! Minus the loin cloth :D

rshankar
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by rshankar »

sureshvv wrote:Yep! Minus the loin cloth :D
Or presumably Jane, but I am not going there! ;)

RaviSri
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by RaviSri »

In her lec-dem Charumathi mentioned another controversy with the 14 ragamalika - if the swara sahitya was indeed part of the composition. She mentioned that some experts had opined that it was not the case, but that both MLV and the original notation had the swara sahitya.
Let the controversies be. I have nothing else to say. But, as far as the above is concerned, in the SSP, the swaras have been given and it has been mentioned as swara-sahityam. I have heard that the original Telugu SSP also mentions swara-sahityam, which means the song should be sung with swaras for each raga. What MLV does is, she leaves out the swaras for the srI rAgA segment, i.e., for 'chaturdasha bhuvana rUpa rAgamAlikA bharaNa dharaNanta karaNam'. Also, she brings the Arabhi segment to the anupallavi, whereas actually it should be part of the pallavi after srI rAgA.

SRJ etc., learnt the song from Tiruppambaram at the Central college. The latter did not sing the swarams, don't know why. Probably Sattanur Panchanada Iyer who was his father's guru, as he was of Veena Dhanammal, did not teach the swarams. Dhanammal did not teach the song to anyone, including her daughters, according to her grandson T.Sankaran.

shanks
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by shanks »

Dr. S Ramanathan has sung this too. The recording below starts with that without any accompaniments - no idea about the timeframe.
https://shankarkrish.s3.amazonaws.com/M ... 7%20SR.mp3

My late aunt Savitri Satyamurthy (accompanied Dr S Ramanathan on violin) was a strict follower of Dr SR's padantharam; She has taught this kriti to my mother.
MLV may have made this composition well heard, but surely many others have sung at various times.

srini_pichumani
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Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by srini_pichumani »

Recorded Madras 1980. Relelased 1981. Folkways Records label. My Lithuanian-American friend in Ypsilanti, MI, whose name is a mouthful even by Indian standards and a delight to mention here -- Erdvilas Kazimieras Jonas Bankauskas -- who keeps his LPs in mint quality gave me a very high fidelity recording of this entire LP set with comprehensive sleevenotes written by Robert S.Gottlieb. I distributed it to many friends in the US and visitors from India in the early 90s ! I still have the cassette in excellent condition in case anyone is interested in digitizing it.

This recording featured the Navagraha kritis (ok, ok, vAra kriti folks, take a deep breath) with exquisite recitation of the Navagraha mantras by Vazhuthur Rajagopala Sarma. Alandur S.Natarajan (Prof.SR's brother) and Kuttalam Viswanatha Iyer were the accompanists for all the navagraha kritis and "s'rI gurunA pAlitosmi".

There was a pretty bad quality audio cassette released in India (Sangeetha ?) which didn't have the sleevenotes or the mantras either, if I remember right.

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by shankarank »

rshankar wrote: 30 Mar 2017, 17:25
sureshvv wrote:Yep! Minus the loin cloth :D
Or presumably Jane, but I am not going there! ;)
With all your funny takes - you guys think you are pushing me to edge of virakti - I am a passionate fellow still very much worldly! So I won't take that plunge! :lol:

varsha
Posts: 1978
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by varsha »

MLV sang bArO kriShNayyA in 1966 itself. It has been recorded in the LP which was released in 1965
also perambur sangeeth sabha 60 as per my records.
fidgety unimpressive track

varsha
Posts: 1978
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by varsha »

09 - SrI viSva nAthaM bhajE(a)ham - caturdaSa rAga mAlikA - dikshitar

earliest is newyork 64 as per my books

varsha
Posts: 1978
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06

Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by varsha »

can put up both concerts if needed
or someone can point to a link is sangeethapriya

knrh05
Posts: 162
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 20:52

Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by knrh05 »

MLV Perambur concert on Sangeethapriya - https://www.sangeethamshare.org/kasturi ... abha_1960/
New York 1976 - https://www.sangeethamshare.org/murthy/ ... 2-10-1976/

Both concert recordings are not of very good quality. If Varsha has a better recording, perhaps he can post...

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by sureshvv »

shankarank wrote: 31 Mar 2017, 07:16
With all your funny takes - you guys think you are pushing me to edge of virakti - I am a passionate fellow still very much worldly! So I won't take that plunge! :lol:
Don't worry. You are doing better than the other guy at the edge of vikruthi.

rajeshnat
Posts: 9906
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by rajeshnat »

melam72 wrote: 27 Mar 2017, 07:46
I still believe that it was Charumathi who deserved that Sangeetha Kalanidhi.

Just look at her credentials versus his! She is an accomplished composer, her music is technically perfect, she seldom panders to her audience, and she revitalised the art of Pallavi rendition in the 70s and 80s.

Gurubhakthi is not everything; you need genuine talent, and you need to have thozhil-dharmam. Charumathi has all three, TVR has only one.

Coming to TVR's music: it is unimpressive, it is ordinary, and he frequently goes off shruti. His voice is unremarkable and unmelodious. His brigas are but pale imitations of that of GNB. And yet, it is he who gets more slots.

This is not abhiprayam (opinion). This is unmai (truth).

TVR, unfortunately, doesn't fall in the category, in my opinion. He, to me, sings to the galleries.
With the revival of 14 ragamalika set aside wonderfully by srini and Ravi Sir

To the very little that I heard of charumathi she appeared more erudite and she possibly deserves sangeetha kala acharya


The music of vidwan Trichur Ramachanran is not as bad as what melam72 has portrayed . Every concert of his to me is how much he equals GNB and how much he falls short of GNB . There are few spectacular concerts where TVR has sung brillliantly his orientation of singing has a lot of more hindustani slant unlike GNB which is more carnatic grounded . I cannot forget TVR rendition of brindavana saranga -so authentic , I have discussed a lot with Mohan from Australia who has a lot of respect and TVR is one of his favourite . But just to dismiss TVR as what melam72 stated is so far away from truth

One challenge in the last two decades for the audience to hear either TVR or Charumathi is when their daughter Subhashree Ramachandran accompanies them . I guess charumathi took more of that combo . Last year during Dec 2016 I saw Hindu Color ads carnatic melody queeen subhashree ramachandran - that is also far away from truth.

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by MaheshS »

srini_pichumani wrote: 31 Mar 2017, 01:48 Recorded Madras 1980. Relelased 1981. Folkways Records label. My Lithuanian-American friend in Ypsilanti, MI, whose name is a mouthful even by Indian standards and a delight to mention here -- Erdvilas Kazimieras Jonas Bankauskas -- who keeps his LPs in mint quality gave me a very high fidelity recording of this entire LP set with comprehensive sleevenotes written by Robert S.Gottlieb. I distributed it to many friends in the US and visitors from India in the early 90s ! I still have the cassette in excellent condition in case anyone is interested in digitizing it.

This recording featured the Navagraha kritis (ok, ok, vAra kriti folks, take a deep breath) with exquisite recitation of the Navagraha mantras by Vazhuthur Rajagopala Sarma. Alandur S.Natarajan (Prof.SR's brother) and Kuttalam Viswanatha Iyer were the accompanists for all the navagraha kritis and "s'rI gurunA pAlitosmi".
Can you upload an e-version of this please? Also the sleeve notes if possible. Much appreciated.

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: abhiprAya sangItam

Post by shankarank »

knrh05 wrote: 01 Apr 2017, 18:51 MLV Perambur concert on Sangeethapriya - https://www.sangeethamshare.org/kasturi ... abha_1960/
I listened to the Arabhi in that concert. In that Alapana, I have to be a real tarzan amidst the world of Carnatic music to appreciate it. Or a liberal open to new experiences. Else a firm belief that Carnatic music is completely Melody only and rhythm is there for lyrics and "music" is set on it. Don't know whether to call it scalar - but Suddha Saveri was all over it. She herself searching for Arabhi - and after she finds it - I have to begin my search.

She does better in the song though.

I did not have that feeling with Dr BMK with ramaNa vibhO kalayami - or when TVR in that dallas concert sang a similar vaRNa meTTu - another ST song.

When Bhajana sampradaya begins AnjanEya Paramananda mUrtE - many times high up in anupallavi: apahRta raghuvara , Arabhi falls out with no effort. That is being sung in concerts also even though there are no prAsa rules : http://www.deccanherald.com/content/301 ... alist.html

So I am a tarzan from Bhajan world!

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