Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2017

[ram1999]

Rajam Iyer - KVN got it, so I deserve as well being a disciple of Ariyakudi, if not I am going to hang my self in the Music Academy

How did Semmangudi get so much clout to control the affairs of the MA single handedly and having the veto powers ??

[shankarank]

None of them were / are saints. They just talk about not wanting this or that, and behind the scenes do every dirty trick available to make sure they do

This is one of those kinds of expectations ( that they be like saints!) that is creating all this noise about this being not a religious music - but art music! And we don't have to consider the question even if it is religious music or art music - as those terms mean so many things that there is no clarity in that. If we need to consider that - we have been having that discussion already in so many ways!

If the musicians have to live amidst the community they serve and they have the same material needs as the rest and need recognition as part of that, I don't see anything conflicting ( this is not about right vs. wrong) in them going after something!

If an artist who toils cannot seek recognition , no philosophy or moral on earth makes sense to me!!!

If we don't agree with institutions and their selections for awards, first we need to remember they put their reputation on the line (in this day and age) - before we get to judge them even. We should just let them do that also - make what we think is a wrong selection!

Before we complain that MDR was not selected, did we as a community in sufficient numbers value his music - then?

[pattamaa]

>>If the whole of the Ganga and Cauvery waters are used to bathe the Academy, the institution is not going to be purified.

Well said !!!

[pattamaa]

Rajam Iyer - KVN got it, so I deserve as well being a disciple of Ariyakudi, if not I am going to hang my self in the Music Academy

How did Semmangudi get so much clout to control the affairs of the MA single handedly and having the veto powers ??

Ditto - i have same question from yesterday. curious... Is it because of Sadasivam connection, and fund raising for building etc ?

[shankarank]

>>If the whole of the Ganga and Cauvery waters are used to bathe the Academy, the institution is not going to be purified.

Well said !!!

Lets worry about purifying Ganga/Yamuna and there is no water to speak of in cauvery!. Yamuna is already a dead river it seems with no oxygen to support life!

[devan]

Tvg. also got his sk. by threatening. When Sudha Ragunathan was given the sk. Tvg.was angry. In Sudha Ragunathan's sk.speech the president said in future it will given to youngsters. In the very next year he ate his own words and give it to Tvg. It is still a mystery for what mr. Tvg. For mrindangm or vocal. He has achieved nothing in both. Only when you cry you will get milk.

[hnbhagavan]

TVG
Devan - such statements do not augur well.TVG i do not know why you think he has not contributed.He has produced wonderful musicians-S Varadarajan is an outstanding violinist.The combined concerts of BMK-MSG-TVG made its mark.True he may not be the best,but his contribution is significant.

[kvchellappa]

The MA policy is to rotate old ones and youngsters as clarified by Mr. Murali. The award, I think, is for service in the cause of music. To say that TVG has not done it is to fly in the face of facts. It is a different issue if there were not more deserving ones, which would be relevant, and equally futile outside the MA precincts, with each pick.
To equate the image of a musician in the eyes of the ordinary rasikas with that of an 'expert' body is perhaps an intended satire on MA!

[devan]

For overall contribution you can give Sangeetha acharya,not sk. In the recent years it has been given for a specific field. If there is no achievement in any particular field you can use the word overall contribution. They want to give to it to tvg. That is it.

[kvchellappa]

An unrelated thought: Normally we hear of Indra in purana when he steals a horse to wreck a sacrifice.

[hnbhagavan]

Sangeetha Kalanidhi is considered to be above Acharya i presume.Sangeeta Kala Acharya seems to be a consolation prize.
A rasika is entitled to his opinions,likes and dislikes.But to dismiss some one very senior like TVG is not in good taste and above all in a public forum.
In case a rasika does think a vidwan being good or bad,he need not attend such concerts.

[pattamaa]

i think, devan meant Sri TVG is not a performing artist.. he also doesn't perform in MA or elsewhere (neither vocal or mridangam), not even in senior slot.. so, he was saying archarya award was more fit. am i right ?

[semmu86]

SSI's connection with and his hold on the affairs of The MA (Esp on the SK selection) is quite well known and documented by many. His connections with the MA presidents and secretaries from KVK, K R Sundaram Iyer, right till the days of TTV etc... Lesser the said and discussed on this, better it is!!!

[Nick H]

The wonder is that the institution, and its awards, have maintained the reputation they have.

[arasi]

"Semmu" himself has said it

Now, if we behave not as rasikas (those who appreciate CM, in our case), and veer towards the very thing we bash (that is--show irreverence to musicians whose livelihood it is), we better not call ourselves rasikas.

Bhagwan,
Yes. If we ridicule them: ivan enna pADaRAn/ vAsikkiRAn? (What's his singing/playing worth, eh?).
The answer from them will be: ivA ellAm enna rasikiRA? (And these folks call themselves rasikas?).

History is fine, but it isn't wise to make sensation out of events, our getting down to the level of tabloid journalism...srkris, hope you are tuned in!

[sureshvv]

i think, devan meant Sri TVG is not a performing artist.. he also doesn't perform in MA or elsewhere (neither vocal or mridangam), not even in senior slot..

If so, he would be wrong. TVG performs plenty. In addition he is also a composer & teacher.

[sureshvv]

How about Madurai Sri G. S. Mani? His contributions are phenomenal.

[SrinathK]

Whatever it may be, TVG is responsible for over half the Carnatic music collections on the internet. And that is gargantuan.

[rshankar]

Whatever it may be, TVG is responsible for over half the Carnatic music collections on the internet. And that is gargantuan.

NOT the same guy at all!

[shankarank]

i think, devan meant Sri TVG is not a performing artist.. he also doesn't perform in MA or elsewhere (neither vocal or mridangam), not even in senior slot..

If so, he would be wrong. TVG performs plenty. In addition he is also a composer & teacher.

People should listen to dEvadi dEva ( Sindhuramakriya by tyAgaraja - an MSS favorite too as Sadasivam will be seated @ the front) by Somu with TVG and VVS (assuming that is correct identification in Sangeethapriya). At every point in the song, anupallavi, first charanam take-give (literally translating the tamizh term ) and the undulations during the neraval TVG's touch is unique. It is a short span coddler - but one of the memorable ones.

To do those kind of things requires a life time of sAdhakam!

Somu asks the violinist to shorten his reply to tOdi ( IIRC) later in that concert so Gopalakrishnan ( as he says it) could play!

In later days when Somu was performing the same item with some unknown juniors - he could be heard feeling impatient, egging them on, vocalising a konnakol, as he sang! He definitely missed the senior accompanists!

[rajeshnat]

In fact Vijaya Siva was not featured in MA last two years.However i noticed he came to MA with his brother and had food in the canteen!

I dont know if you have read year on year comparisons of music academy slots that i wrote. Two years back on 2015 dec , a bunch of youngsters like RKM, Sandeep Narayan were in for evening slots . A bunch of capable musicians like Vijaysiva, Suryaprakash, Tns krishna and Unnikrishanan (bit debatable here) were out . Unni made it back in 2016 Dec. I guess there are just 2 slots each day from Dec 16 to Dec 30. That is only 30. I wish after a point crowd pulling ability is a key criteria for retaining slots.

[shankarank]

to declare that Mridangam is not music.

This has its own history. It was PMI's turn to first degrade Naina Pillai's 8-kaLai Pallavi's as vayitriLE ANi kuttina mAdiri ( like driving nails into one's stomach).

Then couple of decades down it was SSI's turn to say how does it matter who beats up on a Dead cow skin!

Couple of decades later people start making a walk out. About the same time a demonstration is made of pallavi without any accompaniment and declared musically complete!

Couple of decades later - At last the declaration is made!

A decade or so later - it becomes dead history being recalled here: https://youtu.be/12iHM8KJMD8?t=1422

[SrinathK]

Whatever it may be, TVG is responsible for over half the Carnatic music collections on the internet. And that is gargantuan.

NOT the same guy at all!

Really? My apologies. I stand corrected.

[SrinathK]

We must accept it that while music is divine, the vessel that expresses and the vessel that appreciates it is ultimately human.

[shankarank]

if all the stressful consonants ( which should include the vallinam mellinam col of Mridanga, and the stresses that a hands place on the violin bow or the vIna) are differentiated forms of the primordial sound (kAdi vidya), then humans are also differentiated forms of the divine and have the divine potential!

It is hard to always worship another human form as divine and that is riddled with problems - even then people have/are done/doing that also- we have seen. To deny that potential is some other theology!

Also because of problems in treating humans as divine, they invented harmless ways of installing sounds into the mUrtis. nAdOpasana is not altogether different in principle.

Guru is divine, but Guru's feet is even diviner because Guru lays out the path and observes that path himself also. Vijay Siva https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K83dNbItH0k mentions that father is the first Guru - because of bramhopadEsa. But in that same Guruguha first kriti, mother is the first Guru (kAdi vidya) - an alternate idea is also available! I like the latter because that is more universal!

Mother's maiden name is one's primary (or secret) key in the US databases!

And we are also talking about a traditional art form that we want to continue - even with changes - not some modern art sold to highest bidder in auctions and art galleries - which also involves human vessels!

[GNB_LGJ_PR]

Of what consequence is SK when people like Mali, MDR, Palani, Veena Balachander, CSM, TSK and LGJ never got the award? IMHO these people outweigh the SK awardees.

LGJ - MA pleaded him to accept the award in 1992 but he refused so they hurriedly thrust it on Thanjavur K P Sivanandam(hearsay)

Have heard from many people that Alathur brothers suggested LGJ's name for SK in 1963/4 even ahead of themselves - truly selfless

[GNB_LGJ_PR]

My take for this year would be Ravi Kiran / Vikku - although I wish VVS gets it (two violinists in a row - highly improbable)

[melam72]

LGJ - MA pleaded him to accept the award in 1992 but he refused so they hurriedly thrust it on Thanjavur K P Sivanandam(hearsay)

Sivanandam got the SK (apocryphally) because he shut up after Balachander started raising melam and talam due to the Swathi Thirunal controversy. Lalgudi refused it back in the '80's when both TNK and MSG got it before him.

[ram1999]

LGJ - MA pleaded him to accept the award in 1992 but he refused so they hurriedly thrust it on Thanjavur K P Sivanandam(hearsay)

Sivanandam got the SK (apocryphally) because he shut up after Balachander started raising melam and talam due to the Swathi Thirunal controversy. Lalgudi refused it back in the '80's when both TNK and MSG got it before him.

If I am not mistaken, TNK got in the late 70s and MSG in mid 90s. LGJ refused as he was perhaps overlooked on seniority and he fought for instrumentalists to be given solo performance opportunities in MA !!

Anyway why so much importance for a stupid award. This does not in anyway reduce the greatness of these stalwarts !!!

[melam72]

Anyway why so much importance for a stupid award. This does not in anyway reduce the greatness of these stalwarts !!!

Because the artists make such a big hullaballoo over it. Everyone from Sudha Ragunathan to Vedavalli to Trichur Ramachandran place the Sangeetha Kalanidhi in front of their name, even before their given name. It almost supersedes their identity as a human, and redefines them as a 'super-human' (though not necessarily a 'superb-human'!)

Consider this too - no one places a 'Vani Kala Sudhakara' or a 'Sangeetha Ratnakara' or a 'Sangeetha Kalasarathy' before their names when performing in general with the exception of Vani Mahal, Cleveland, and Parthasarathy, respectively. The only exception seems to be 'Yuva Kala Bharathi', and every Kuppan and Suppan who are performing artists have this appendage before their name.

So there you have it. A first mover advantage, along with a lack of competition and the identification of performers as Sangeetha Kalanidhis rather than Sangeetha Vidwans give this 'stupid' award such importance. It doesn't reduce the greatness of stalwarts, it magnifies them. Hence, you may conceive of the significance (or lack thereof) vidwans like Mani Krishnaswamy would have had had they not got the Kalanidhi, and the greatness of musicians like Lalgudi and Karukurichi that they are remembered so fondly even sans Kalanidhi.

[ram1999]

Anyway why so much importance for a stupid award. This does not in anyway reduce the greatness of these stalwarts !!!

Because the artists make such a big hullaballoo over it. Everyone from Sudha Ragunathan to Vedavalli to Trichur Ramachandran place the Sangeetha Kalanidhi in front of their name, even before their given name. It almost supersedes their identity as a human, and redefines them as a 'super-human' (though not necessarily a 'superb-human'!)

Consider this too - no one places a 'Vani Kala Sudhakara' or a 'Sangeetha Ratnakara' or a 'Sangeetha Kalasarathy' before their names when performing in general with the exception of Vani Mahal, Cleveland, and Parthasarathy, respectively. The only exception seems to be 'Yuva Kala Bharathi', and every Kuppan and Suppan who are performing artists have this appendage before their name.

So there you have it. A first mover advantage, along with a lack of competition and the identification of performers as Sangeetha Kalanidhis rather than Sangeetha Vidwans give this 'stupid' award such importance. It doesn't reduce the greatness of stalwarts, it magnifies them. Hence, you may conceive of the significance (or lack thereof) vidwans like Mani Krishnaswamy would have had had they not got the Kalanidhi, and the greatness of musicians like Lalgudi and Karukurichi that they are remembered so fondly even sans Kalanidhi.

Those who have been missed being awarded to me stands taller than the rest - LGJ, Voleti, MDR, Karikurichy, TNR, Namagipettai, Somu, TKR et all

[melam72]

Those who have been missed being awarded to me stands taller than the rest - LGJ, Voleti, MDR, Karikurichy, TNR, Namagipettai, Somu, TKR et all

Almost as if they are Sangeetha Kalaa-no-need-i!

[Nick H]

Sangeetha Kalaa-no-need-i

I don't doubt that some artists like to parade their titles, and, whether we like it or not, SK has kicked, punched and elbowed its way to the top of the title tree. But the prefixing of of such titles, admittedly especially SK, might be more in the hands of the sabbhas: Look! we've got an SK performing today

I'm not keen on titles. I've said before that "Dr." is meaningless for musicians. And this one they do seem to like to show off. Well, If I had ever done enough work to get a phd, maybe I would too... but what difference does it make to the music?

[melam72]

Sangeetha Kalaa-no-need-i

I don't doubt that some artists like to parade their titles, and, whether we like it or not, SK has kicked, punched and elbowed its way to the top of the title tree. But the prefixing of of such titles, admittedly especially SK, might be more in the hands of the sabbhas: Look! we've got an SK performing today

Even independent of performing concerts, Sudha calls herself 'Padmabhushan Sangeethakalanidhi'. All the time. Even on her FB page. I mean, come on; it is illegal to advertise that you're a Padma awardee!

[melam72]

I'm not keen on titles. I've said before that "Dr." is meaningless for musicians. And this one they do seem to like to show off. Well, If I had ever done enough work to get a phd, maybe I would too... but what difference does it make to the music?

The outrage is 'Doctor' Sizkazhi Sivachidambaram.

One would assume he is a PhD in Music.

He is an MBBS.

One would assume he could sing.

He cannot.

One would assume he can sing like his father, Sirkazhi Govindarajan.

He causes seer-azhivu (சீரழிவு) to not just his father's reputation, but also to the earbuds and aesthetic sensibilities of his 'audience'.

Yet he is advertised as Doctor Sirkazhi Sivachidambaram.

My teacher made me a prefect when I was in fourth standard. If I do start performing (spoiler alert: I won't), can I prefix my name with 'Prefect in Fourth Standard' Melam72?

[shankarank]

Hence, you may conceive of the significance (or lack thereof) vidwans like Mani Krishnaswamy would have had had they not got the Kalanidhi

melam72 - Mani Krishnaswamy: I have heard her in the same dais as a child where Charumati also performed in my locality and former was more appreciated for her expression and bhava. I also have heard her @ IITM CLT with Kandasamy Pillai - a set accompanist for her - still remember the tiruvaDi caraNam.

So if you use just technical measuring tools to judge artistes you will end up with what you have - that Charumati is a great singer.

And this is not about whether MK deserved Kalanidhi or not - when other greats were not honored! The other greats were not honored may be because they were already great and that caused its own issues with this award and its ceremonies!

[revathimusic]

Ravikiran. Yes, long overdue indeed!

[rajeshnat]

sruti magazine has an extensive writeup in the recent write up featuring Neyveli Santhanagopalan . May be in a week or two there may be a writeup of NSG again in The Hindu . The write up of sruti and a followup splash in The Hindu possibly is like a clue to this year sangeetha kalanidhi 2017- just making a calculated guess may be it is NSG this year. Ravikiran cannot follow another instrumentalist AK in a back to back year. Any way we have to wait for few more weeks .

[thanjavooran]

Shri rajeshnat,
Wish your guess come true.
If that is the case Vikku may have to wait for few more years.
Thanjavooran
30 05 2017

[melam72]

sruti magazine has an extensive writeup in the recent write up featuring Neyveli Santhanagopalan . May be in a week or two there may be a writeup of NSG again in The Hindu . The write up of sruti and a followup splash in The Hindu possibly is like a clue to this year sangeetha kalanidhi 2017- just making a calculated guess may be it is NSG this year. Ravikiran cannot follow another instrumentalist AK in a back to back year. Any way we have to wait for few more weeks .

A few spanners into that theory:
1) Kanyakumari didn't get such extensive media coverage before she got the Kalanidhi. While Sanjay did, I do not recall TVG or Sudha having a media blitz before getting Kalanidhi. The December 2016 issue of Sruthi, IIRC, was dedicated to Kanyakumari.
2) There has been no write up of NSG in Sruthi at all- neither in the blog, nor in the issue. According to a search on Sruti website and blog, NSG hasn't been mentioned. Can you clarify?

[vilomachapu]

In April and May issues of Sruti, there are articles on NSG.

[MaheshS]

[sureshvv]

baaaaahuuuuubaaaaleeeeee

[melam72]

Apologies, I seem to have been mistaken. But the media blitz aside, the decision for Sangeetha Kalanidhi is only made in late-May. How is it possible that the editors of Sruti somehow got to know of NSG's kalanidhi-fication?

[MaheshS]

Very personal thoughts.

Sanjay's Kalanidhi was a professional hit job, ala MSS, albeit different circumstances. Very slick behind the scene operation, Sriram V, I assume orchestrated it, after all he has seen the master [SSI] in operation. Those that matter only read or belong to] a few select publications, so once it's in The Hindu / Sruthi, it just becomes de facto. If these two do not "push" you or "pushes" someone else then you've got not chance

Does ABC deserve the SK? Do they deserve it *before* X, Y or Z? Is there any point on arguing the merits / demerits of this? Is it going to change *anything*? I think it's the Executive Committee that decides and I suppose given enough incentive, they'd be more than happy to dig up Amma from Marina Beach and adorn her with the Sangitha Kalanidhi.

[hnbhagavan]

I know that several Vidwans who deserved did not get the SK award.Some Vidwans refused due to various reasons.But if you go by the list most of the Vidwans who were awarded SK are all good in each one's way.Notable omission was MDR and It was later made up in case of Lalgudi Sir by a life time achievement award.Certain names are not even mentioned in Rasikas such as Vijaya Siva , OS Tyagarajan.
In case of Violinists Sri TNK got it in 1980 itself and Sri MSG in the late 1990's.M Chandrasekharan in 2003/2004.
There may be some artists in the list who got it because of other considerations,but by far most of the people in the list are very eminent.
Another notable omission was from Kerala the late Netiyankara Vasudevan.

[melam72]

Another notable omission was from Kerala the late Netiyankara Vasudevan.

Vidwans from anywhere except Madras (and that includes regional TN, places like Mayavaram or Dharmapuri or Needamangalam), are excluded from SK (notwithstanding their talents) due to their limited exposure to the latest trends, and the orthodox mindedness of sabhas in refusing awards.

This has been happening since the 1950's and 60's.

[Nick H]

I think it's the Executive Committee that decides

There is, or was, an Experts Committee, the membership of which was listed on the site. The site, like The Hindu, has been designed to look, but not be, cleverer.

[Sachi_R]

A sudden brainwave.
Why not Music Academy lay to rest all controversy and accusations of chicanery by focussing for the next ten years on conferring POSTHUMOUS awards of Sangeetha Kalanidhi?
So now we should actively debate the order. Who should get it first?
Mali/TNRP/Somu/MDR/SB/Palani/Lalgudi/Voleti/SK/TKR/.....

[melam72]

A sudden brainwave.

A not-so sudden brainwave.

What if the MA awards it to no one, since it is Thyagaraja's 250th anniversary?