Guess the Violinist #2

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bilahari
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:02

Guess the Violinist #2

Post by bilahari »

Here is the second edition. Please identify tracks 4, 5, and 6:
https://archive.org/details/vigneshr11_gmail_GTV2

uday_shankar
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by uday_shankar »

Track #5: MC (and somebody else, very sparse, Bharati ?)

srikant1987
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23

Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by srikant1987 »

Bilahari was chatting with me when he uploaded. Unfortunately 5 & 6 were named after the artistes at that time. I'd have recognized #5 anyway I guess. I guessed 4 Correctly. Was not hard, but needed a good length of the track and some repeat listening. But my first guess was right. :)

melam72
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Joined: 02 Nov 2016, 16:12

Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by melam72 »

Is #4 L Shankar or one of his brothers? It gave off a lot of Western Classical touches...

varsha
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Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by varsha »

Track #5: MC (and somebody else, very sparse, Bharati ?)
somebody else has to be TNK
Last edited by varsha on 20 Apr 2017, 10:58, edited 1 time in total.

varsha
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Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by varsha »

Track #4:Typical Lalgudi embellishments.
Could be TRukmini

varsha
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Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by varsha »

Track #4:
There is a hint of parur touch

shanks
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Joined: 25 May 2006, 22:03

Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by shanks »

#4 seems to be VVS
#5 M Chandrasekaran
#6 Difficult to guess - does have shades of LS/LV/LS brothers style

srikant1987
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23

Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by srikant1987 »

#6 is indeed difficult to guess. I thought I'll throw in a hint: a violinist contemporary with RK Shriram Kumar, MR Gopinath, MA Sundareswaran, HK Venkataram, Lalgudi Vijayalakshmi, Charulatha Ramanujam, etc. :D

matterwaves
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Joined: 24 Aug 2007, 18:26

Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by matterwaves »

How delightful a bilahari is track 6! Thanks for posting!!

bilahari
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Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by bilahari »

Answers:

#4 is indeed VVS playing kharaharapriya. There are several identifying characteristics of his style. (1) His technique is generally rather sparse, without too many oscillations and vibrato. (2) He always has an excellent tone and his full use of the bow imparts great continuity to his phrases. This kharaharapriya is filled with lovely uninterrupted karvais (notice that the bow does not reverse a dozen times during the karvai unlike 80% of violinists). To me this is one of THE defining features of his music. (3) VVS does use emphasis (vallinam-mellinam, or alternatively pressing harder and softer while bowing) in his bowing, which is what imparts the Lalgudi-ish character to his music, although the sum of the parts here can only really be VVS. (4) He rarely uses hard finger stops (07:25; 08.25), but rather appears to use quick semi-stops in his anuswaras and brighas. His fingering technique is very clear and clean, which is another distinguishing factor in his playing. (5) In general, his music has ample use of elongated glides, each played immaculately given his strong bowing technique. (6) He often prefers to play shorter groups of phrases centered about a note or kArvai rather than cascades of brighas or longer passages. This is how he develops ragas in most concerts that I've heard, although his recordings are admittedly rare to come by.

Melam, I do not hear any Western influence here. Can you point to a time stamp?

#5 is the inimicable MC playing a gorgeous bilahari in a duet with TNK (and UKS and Upendran) ahead of nA jIvadhAra. TNK's appreciation of MC in this recording is vociferous. MC's style is very authentic, and is probably the closest that I've heard the violin sound like a nAdaswaram. MC has said his technique is modelled after vocal, veena, and nadhaswaram music, and every element shows in his style. He plays hard finger stops like plucked notes in a vINa, but he also rolls his fingers combining glides and soft stops creating the flowing akAram like a nAdaswaram. The nAdaswaram element of his music is probably what most distinguishes his music. He also has a generally thicker tone; I have not watched him live but I suspect he bows closer to the fingerboard than to the bridge.

#6 is H.N. Bhaskar playing kalyANi in a solo. The Parur influence is unmistakeable here especially around 1:40 onwards and from 5:00 to 5:40; the phrases especially in the upper octave taper beautifully into silence, there is juxtaposition of phrases in madhya and tAra stAyi, the fingering has clarity, and there is an even tone to the bow. Of course, HNB learnt from MSG directly and his lineage is steeped in the Parur tradition as well. However, that school still maintains an authenticity. For instance, akAram phrases are not played with a heavy bent of gliding between notes (which seems to be the case in the Parur school) but rather the fingers are used more to create discrete phrases. Flat notes are used less, there are more gamakams in general, so there is less of a Western/Hindustani air about the music. All of this is apparent in this kalyANi, which has Parur touches but manages to sound distinct.

melam72
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Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by melam72 »

bilahari wrote: 22 Apr 2017, 14:40 Melam, I do not hear any Western influence here. Can you point to a time stamp?
I felt the beginning employed a lot of Western touches, especially the slow beginning, the preponderance of plain notes in the beginning, and the quality of the vibrato. Say from around 0:00 to 3:00 or 5:00?

srikant1987
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Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by srikant1987 »

My initial guess was someone Lalgudi. The initial slow phrases had a some mellinam-vallinam. But a few seconds later, it wasn't so visible. I thought it might be Lalgudi before evolving the technique -- or T Rukmini, or a present-day violinist like R Hemalatha who has some traits from the bani. But as it progressed the general Narayana Iyer technique came out more and more. Indeed the madhyamakala/fast phrases in the tAra sthAyi, around 10:56 and beyond are very, very clearly Narayana Iyer. I was thinking, is this RKSK? (!) But after going back to the beginning it was not him. ... So Bob's your uncle, and it's VVS. :)

bilahari
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Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by bilahari »

Melam:
There is rich vibrato in the opening passage. However, I wonder if you're conflating good technique with sounding Western. :-p

Srikant:
Indeed, the clip keeps us guessing but becomes more Narayana Iyer-like and less Lalgudi-like as it progresses. I think the Lalgudi-type bowing and vibrato in the initial passage make it much less likely to be RKSK, whose bowing technique is very much in the Narayana Iyer/TNK mould.

melam72
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Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by melam72 »

bilahari wrote: 24 Apr 2017, 09:27 Melam:
There is rich vibrato in the opening passage. However, I wonder if you're conflating good technique with sounding Western. :-p
A welcome relief from the scratchy bowing many of our violinists possess - all of them should learn from L Shankar, L Vaidyanathan, Lalgudi Jayaraman, and Ganesh-Kumaresh, as well as VV Subramaniam avaru (whose solos I have not heard at all)

srikant1987
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23

Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by srikant1987 »

There's good bowing and there's good bowing. There's bowing to get a neat, pleasant sound, and bowing to get crystal-clarity and utmost azhuttam. Any number of vainikas can strum a note audibly, but how many can get a note to strike our very soul, like a Kalpakam Swaminathan?

Vibrato is, by the way, not produced from bowing. It also doesn't blend particularly well with Carnatic music. It is not rich vibrato, but a sparing usage -- or even absolute avoidance -- that would be a good technique for Carnatic music.

bilahari
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:02

Re: Guess the Violinist #2

Post by bilahari »

There is a lot to be said about bowing amongst CM violinists. What is one of the basic tenets of playing the instrument does indeed get overlooked by a majority of violinists who view the bow merely as a way to produce sound rather than as one of the two fundamental components of creating music with the violin. The problems run far and wide. Most violinists do not even hold the bow correctly, with many opting to hold it closer to their body than the frog, which automatically limits the amount of bow available. Most violinists also do not use the entire bow, playing karvais by rapidly switching the 40% of the bow they do use, and losing all control over the bow once they pass their safe length. Then there is the entire problem of a proper bowing technique. It is emphasized in WCM that one should always bow with significant force, and that one should try to keep the bow perpendicular to the strings and closer to the bridge than to the fingerboard to get a thin, even, piercing tone. If you watch the bulk of our violinists, the bow slips up and down haphazardly and sometimes even ON the fingerboard! Until the major violin teachers and players recognize the importance of the bow in producing music, I suspect little will change. It is a little embarrassing that decades after the tonal quality introduced to us by the likes of Dwaram and Papa, most violinists today are still unable (or unwilling) to routinely produce that kind of sound.

Vibrato is the oscillation of a note, and is demonstrated here:
https://youtu.be/YoXZfvf5Teg?t=2m25s
Different schools have different opinions on the value of vibrato in CM. The LGJ school loves it, and the TNK school almost totally eschews it. A chacun son gout!

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