Popularity of Thyagaraja

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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kvchellappa
Posts: 3598
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by kvchellappa »

Here is Saketh Raman's post in FB:

There are going to be innumerable articles written on Shri Thyagaraja on account of his 250th Jayanthi. Am I going to add any value or make a difference by writing about one of the greatest composers ever? These were my initial thoughts. Hailing from Shri Thyagaraja's sishya parampara, I felt I should and hopefully I can give a glance into some aspects that are new to our dear Rasikas.
Shri Lalgudi rama Iyer was a direct disciple of Shri Thyagaraja and padmabushan Shri lalgudi Jayaraman sir was the great grandson of Shri rama Iyer. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be his student and hence belong to the Thyagaraja sishya parampara or lineage. Shri lalgudi Jayaraman sir was mesmerised by Shri Thyagaraja's compositions so much that he would play atleast one Thyagaraja's kirthanas even in Tamil isai sangam concert which was outright an exclusive Tamil compositions concert. There was an incident when Shri lalgudi sir had played a concert in Mylapore fine arts on 1 Jan and after a hugely successful concert realised that he had not played even 1 Kriti of Thyagaraja when he was coming back home. After a 4 hour concert, he continued playing a Thyagaraja Kriti at home and only then he had lunch. So what makes Thyagaraja kritis so special, why was lalgudi sir so fond of shri Thyagaraja's kritis, why am I intoxicated by his works, why are thousands of Rasika's glued to his compositions?
These are purely going to be my opinions. First of all, Thyagaraja's kritis strike an easy chord with listeners. While there is no doubt that Muthuswamy dikshithar and Syama Sastri kirthanas are of the highest order, they require a bit of musically trained ears to appreciate the beauty whereas with thyagaraja , his compositions attract one and all. They appeal equally to the connoisseurs and laymen alike. True there are nottuswaram of dikshithar that can appeal to anybody easily but by and large that proportion is more in Thyagaraja's works
Secondly, the variety in his compositions stand out. One can easily perform an exclusive Thyagaraja concert without worrying about the success of the concert. Once Shri Palghat mani Iyer remarked that if you have to play a concert, start with 3 back to back Thyagaraja compositions and the success is guaranteed. Especially the Madhyama kalapramanam stand out in his compositions and is catchy. There is so much variety in ragas, talas and most noticeably kalapramanam. This is such an essential part of a concert's success.
there is a personal connect in his compositions with the almighty that everybody can relate to. If he has lost the Rama Vigraha, will he composes eti Janma with pathos. If he has recovered the Rama Vigraha,he composes kanukontini with gay abandon. As a musician and as a Rasika, one gets transported to those moments instantly and feel the same emotion that Thyagaraja would have experienced.
The concept of Sangathi is best illustrated in his compositions. Musicians have a lot more flexibility to add sangathis in his compositions without disturbing the structural form. For eg, darini telusukonti in suddhasaveri - Shri g n Balasubramaniam has added so many sangathis and decorated it beautifully. Lalgudi jayaraman sir has beautified na jeevadhara in bilahari with 17 sangathis in the Pallavi.
there is something for the connoisseurs and the explorers. The ekaika ragas - compositions with just one Kriti in that Raga is Mindboggling. For eg entha Muddo in bindumalini, sadamathim in gambheeravani, dayajooda in ganavaridhi - the list goes on and on. As a musician it's very fascinating how he has used the vakra sancharas in such rare ragas. I have tried my best to beautify such compositions further by composing chittaiswaras in such rare ragas like jingla, sindhuramakriya, veeravasantham which give a glimpse into the arohanam and avarohanam and the permutations possible.
The thematic possibilities are aplenty. Nava vidha bhakthi kirthanas of Thyagaraja, the Laya aspects in his kirthanas in terms of Thalam, eduppu, mathematical patterns, landings, Pancharathna kirthanas of Kovur, Srirangam, lalgudi, Prahlada bhakthi Vijayam, Divya nama kirthanas, Nouka charithram, etc
He has composed magnum opus compositions like chakkani raja, Mari Mari ninne and also composed the most simple ones for beginners to learn such as Sara sara Samarai, raminchuva
I can just go on and on. This is not a very structured article but a collection of randomised thoughts on Shri Thyagaraja. Hopefully Rasikas find some takeaways from this article into his works.

RaviSri
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Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by RaviSri »

If he has lost the Rama Vigraha, will he composes eti Janma with pathos. If he has recovered the Rama Vigraha,he composes kanukontini with gay abandon.
Both these kritis have nothing to do with the so called loss of the Rama vigraha. Eti janmam iti occurs in prahlAda bhakti vijayam.

sankark
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 09:10

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by sankark »

RaviSri wrote: 05 May 2017, 18:45
If he has lost the Rama Vigraha, will he composes eti Janma with pathos. If he has recovered the Rama Vigraha,he composes kanukontini with gay abandon.
Both these kritis have nothing to do with the so called loss of the Rama vigraha. Eti janmam iti occurs in prahlAda bhakti vijayam.
Ouch!

srikant1987
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by srikant1987 »

I believe he composed A daya shrI raghuvara when he loses the vigraha (his brother intentionally displaced it iIrc).

pvs
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Joined: 21 Jan 2008, 19:28

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by pvs »

>>These are purely going to be my opinions.
much needed disclaimer!

RaviSri
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Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by RaviSri »

I believe he composed A daya shrI raghuvara when he loses the vigraha (his brother intentionally displaced it iIrc).
How many more kritis are going to be paraded as being composed after the so called loss of the Rama icon?

This story of the Rama icon being thrown into the Cauvery itself was the product of the fertile imagination of the hagiographers, especially the harikatha artists. The elder brother is conveniently made a villain in order to deify Thyagaraja.

bhakthim dehi
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Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 21:28

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by bhakthim dehi »

The story of throwing SriRama vigraha might be a story. But, Thyagaraja certainly was not in good terms with his elder brother. Also, Umayalpuram brothers, Krishna and Sundara Bhagavathar themselves confided that Thyagaraja s elder brother use to physically assault him and Thyagaraja use to go in for a trance state. He use to have vision of SriRama at that time. These were witnessed by these brothers is what I have read.

SrinathK
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Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by SrinathK »

What makes Thyagaraja so popular is

He has composed in a huge number of ragas and several compositions in most of these ragas. We have almost 700 of his compositions avaliable.

He experiences and emotes and communicates the rasas for you. He is a man who is openly himself and bares his soul in his songs.

Most of his krithis are in madhyamakala and follow a rondo like format A B CB or A B C C C and are not in complex talas, so they are easier to learn.

His disciplic succession with the exception of the Thillaisthalam school rules the CM world. Virtually every major name in music you can reel off the bat is connected to him some way or the other. This is by far the most important factor. Without such a large group of disciples, his music wouldn't have reached this level.

A lot of later composers tried to replicate his style in their own compositions.

His music got tinkered by the passage of time more than any other composer.

He who enters the field first always has a head start. His music became popular before that of Dikshitar in the previous century when Carnatic music became more composition oriented. All other composers gained traction only subsequently as far as the 20th century goes.

Everyone starts of learning his compositions more than anyone else at the beginning stage.

A far greater proportion of his compositions are popularly known now compared to other composers -- especially amongst rasikas. I am exploring Mt. Dikshitar right now and I only now realize that I have in fact listened to a handful of Dikshitar compositions and there are far more I have never heard than I ever imagined.

Sivaramakrishnan
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 08:29

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

bhakthim dehi wrote: 06 May 2017, 20:51 The story of throwing SriRama vigraha might be a story. But, Thyagaraja certainly was not in good terms with his elder brother. Also, Umayalpuram brothers, Krishna and Sundara Bhagavathar themselves confided that Thyagaraja s elder brother use to physically assault him and Thyagaraja use to go in for a trance state. He use to have vision of SriRama at that time. These were witnessed by these brothers is what I have read.
This is too much of a story!

bhakthim dehi
Posts: 539
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 21:28

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by bhakthim dehi »

The probability of this being real is high. When a person is physically assaulted, on all probabilities he can go into a state of unconsciousness.
It is a known fact that everything to him is Sri Ramachandra, a state which we can't even think off. His routine is Ramachandra, his thoughts are Ramachandra, whatever he see is Ramachandra.
"Just recollect enthendu joochina, enthendu palikina, enthendu sevinchina, enthendu poojinchina; Andhandhu neeveyanuchu ......"
Keeping this in mind, if we go through his compositions, there are many evidences that direct us to conclude he had some divine vision or divine experience.
Whether, he composed during that trance state or whether he had any vision during the period of trance cannot be ascertained with the narration by those brothers.
But, the possibility can never be neglected considering these internal evidences and the profile of Thyagaraja.

RaviSri
Posts: 512
Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by RaviSri »

The story of throwing Sri Rama vigraha might be a story. But, Thyagaraja certainly was not in good terms with his elder brother. Also, Umayalpuram brothers, Krishna and Sundara Bhagavathar themselves confided that Thyagaraja s elder brother use to physically assault him and Thyagaraja use to go in for a trance state. He use to have vision of SriRama at that time. These were witnessed by these brothers is what I have read.
Abraham Panditar writes in his book that the Umayalpuram brothers were disciples of Manumbuchavadi Venklatasubbayyar. When Thyagaraja passed away the brothers were very young and they certainly would not have seen his brother who had passed away much earlier, at least earlier than 1829, because the title deed of the sale of a part of the property in Tirumanjana Veedhi was signed by Thyagaraja and Jalpesan's son. By common consent the Umayalpuram brothers, even if they were disciples of Thyagaraja, were the last disciples and the youngest.

The Umayalpuram brothers lived upto 1903/04. So there is no chance they would have witnessed Thyagaraja's brother's inimical attitude towards Thyagaraja. The brothers must have taken this story from other fictional accounts in their time or must have made it up themselves.

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

My comment on TMK's article:

Most of us hold iconoclastic views--be it Religion,Culture,Politics at some point in our lifetimes. But then as we grow older we start to emerge from a state of "COCKSURE" IGNORANCE" to "THOUGHTFUL UNCERTAINTY". I hope and pray that TMK is no exception to this dictum!!

On a lighter vain apropos Ravi Sri's and other rasikas comments, SSI used to comment playfully about the story behind the Bilahari Krithi Nad Jeevadhara-the legend is that the saint sang this kithi and a young boy who had been pronounced "dead" came back alive!

SSI's comment in Tamil "ADIL IRUKKIRA SANGATHIGALAI(16 as Saketharaman mentions in his post!!) PADINAL IRUKKIRA USIRUM POYUDUM"(If you sing all the Sangathis in that song not only would the dead not be revived but even the living would be dead!!!

Sorry for this flippancy amidst a thoughtful exchange amongst forumites.

But then it has been rightly said "FOOLS RUSH IN WHERE ANGELS FEAR TO TREAD". PLEAD GUILTY!!!!

Ramasubramanian M.K
Posts: 1226
Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

My comment on TMK's article:

Most of us hold iconoclastic views--be it Religion,Culture,Politics at some point in our lifetimes. But then as we grow older we start to emerge from a state of "COCKSURE" IGNORANCE" to "THOUGHTFUL UNCERTAINTY". I hope and pray that TMK is no exception to this dictum!!

On a lighter vain apropos Ravi Sri's and other rasikas comments, SSI used to comment playfully about the story behind the Bilahari Krithi Nad Jeevadhara-the legend is that the saint sang this kithi and a young boy who had been pronounced "dead" came back alive!

SSI's comment in Tamil "ADIL IRUKKIRA SANGATHIGALAI(16 as Saketharaman mentions in his post!!) PADINAL IRUKKIRA USIRUM POYUDUM"(If you sing all the Sangathis in that song not only would the dead not be revived but even the living would be dead!!!

Sorry for this flippancy amidst a thoughtful exchange amongst forumites.

But then it has been rightly said "FOOLS RUSH IN WHERE ANGELS FEAR TO TREAD". PLEAD GUILTY!!!!

kvchellappa
Posts: 3598
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by kvchellappa »

It is a welcome relief, sir.

bhakthim dehi
Posts: 539
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 21:28

Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by bhakthim dehi »

Abraham Panditar writes in his book that the Umayalpuram brothers were disciples of Manumbuchavadi Venklatasubbayyar. When Thyagaraja passed away the brothers were very young and they certainly would not have seen his brother who had passed away much earlier, at least earlier than 1829, because the title deed of the sale of a part of the property in Tirumanjana Veedhi was signed by Thyagaraja and Jalpesan's son. By common consent the Umayalpuram brothers,
Yes. Your are right. I think they have started their lessons only around 1837-1839.
even if they were disciples of Thyagaraja, were the last disciples and the youngest.
I feel the youngest one was Walajapet Krishnaswamy Bhagavathar.


I have read this anecdote in one of the Sudesamitran.

shankarank
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Re: Popularity of Thyagaraja

Post by shankarank »

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote: 07 May 2017, 18:58 Most of us hold iconoclastic views--be it Religion,Culture,Politics at some point in our lifetimes. But then as we grow older we start to emerge from a state of "COCKSURE" IGNORANCE" to "THOUGHTFUL UNCERTAINTY". I hope and pray that TMK is no exception to this dictum!!
In a recent bharatanATyam annual day event - I was in the sound box and others who were there had a lighter moments to themselves. But one thing kindled my mind when I heard this about the time when the senior/sub-senior group did their namastEs - they filled the stage little to big oDyANams and other jwellery shining and in all splendor of their colored dresses. They look like golu bommais remarked this gentleman evoking laughter from others. And he was spot on in one sense. But I did not want to taunt him with my Visu dialogue, but it is worthwhile now to do that.

My question to myself: Was he referring to first step ("mudal paDiya?") or steps above ( "mEl paDikaLa?:) - full of mUrtis to which all our ladies sing to?. First pADi is full of icons from Singapore/Dubai/Hong Kong/Japanese dolls!

I know it was just harmless banter - but difficult to say whether he was an iconoclast or not - for he also sent his daughter through the ArangETram process!

And when you say Religion - I wonder who is the prophet, which book and where is the house of worship and who are the congregation?

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