The Development of a Bani

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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vijay.siddharth
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The Development of a Bani

Post by vijay.siddharth »

I have this nagging question.

Recently, I listened to recordings of Amritha Murali, Brinda Manickavasagam, and Nisha Rajagopal. With the exception of their voices and the songs they chose, their music, especially in planning a concert and executing the manodharmam, were virtually indistinguishable.

This is in stark contrast to the 50's and 60's, when musicians like MS Subbulakshmi, DK Pattammal, and MLV had their own individualistic styles and approaches to singing. Even if musicians were in the same school (like MLV and Radha-Jayalakshmi), there was a distinctiveness in their approach to music.

This is even in contrast to the musicians of today. The music of Aruna Sayeeram or Sudha Ragunathan or Ranjani Gayatri can hardly be called 'generic', but, at least to my untrained ears, this seems to be the case for the young guns of music.

(Please note that this persists amongst male musicians too, and that I am only taking vidushis as a sampler).

Why has this been the case? Is it the case of musicians not performing long enough? Or is it because, as TM Krishna has pointed out, Carnatic music has been increasingly commodified?

sureshvv
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by sureshvv »

vijay.siddharth wrote: 02 Jul 2017, 10:19 I have this nagging question.

Recently, I listened to recordings of Amritha Murali, Brinda Manickavasagam, and Nisha Rajagopal. With the exception of their voices and the songs they chose, their music, especially in planning a concert and executing the manodharmam, were virtually indistinguishable.
I am not sure I agree with you. But there may be a certain commonality of approach based on the school and the city they are based in.

This is even in contrast to the musicians of today. The music of Aruna Sayeeram or Sudha Ragunathan or Ranjani Gayatri can hardly be called 'generic', but, at least to my untrained ears, this seems to be the case for the young guns of music.
May be the young guns just need more time to set out their own path.
Why has this been the case? Is it the case of musicians not performing long enough? Or is it because, as TM Krishna has pointed out, Carnatic music has been increasingly commodified?
There may be some truth to this. There is a certain "formula for success" that is being widely adopted causing this uniformity.

vijay.siddharth
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by vijay.siddharth »

sureshvv wrote: 02 Jul 2017, 11:39 I am not sure I agree with you. But there may be a certain commonality of approach based on the school and the city they are based in.
I might be completely wrong, sir. As I said, I am nowhere as proficient in music as any of you guys, nor have I been listening for too long (I have only been 'into' Carnatic music for 3 years), but this is what struck me. Apologies for my ignorance.

Nick H
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by Nick H »

I don't have a problem with ignorance, because I am probably even more ignorant! :)

Certainly, I disagree regarding the three examples that you chose --- but you have been listening to recordings, and I have the luxury of regularly seeing these people on the stage.

Of course, this means that my "testing" is very much sighted, and subject to all the biases that involves. For me, that is as it should be, because the character, essence and presentation is almost as important as the music itself. I go to see several artists because of who they are: for me, it is an absolutely integral part of the music that they sing.

As an academic question. though, perhaps I might not do so well on "blind" identification of some artists, even though I know them.

vijay.siddharth
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by vijay.siddharth »

Mr Nick:

You have the luxury of Raga Sudha Hall, while I don't. We average 6-8 concerts in Singapore per annum. I am in Madras now, and if I ever come to Raga Sudha, I will say a hello to you!

But coming back to the point - my concern is about blind testing. If I was blindfolded and asked to identify MLV's music or Aruna Sayeeram's music or MS's music, I would be able to within seconds - but NOT for contemporary musicians!

sureshvv
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by sureshvv »

vijay.siddharth wrote: 02 Jul 2017, 14:29 You have the luxury of Raga Sudha Hall, while I don't.
We all have the luxury of Parivadini now!
But coming back to the point - my concern is about blind testing. If I was blindfolded and asked to identify MLV's music or Aruna Sayeeram's music or MS's music, I would be able to within seconds - but NOT for contemporary musicians!
I will certainly be able to do the same for the above 3 musicians that you picked out from the younger generation. But it may be due to the uniqueness of their voice.

I have observed that musicians from other cities have a certain difference in approach. So may be you should try to listen to some of them and see if you find the same thing,

vijay.siddharth
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by vijay.siddharth »

sureshvv wrote: 02 Jul 2017, 15:29 We all have the luxury of Parivadini now!
:D

It is a bit difficult with me and Parivadini. The webcast in S'pore begins at 8:45pm and goes on until 11:15pm, and I aim to wake up at 5:00am. Plus, I hate listening to only part of a concert, so I only watch Parivadini on weekends! However, there is a distinction between listening to a live concert in the hall and its webcast, right?
sureshvv wrote: 02 Jul 2017, 15:29 I will certainly be able to do the same for the above 3 musicians that you picked out from the younger generation. But it may be due to the uniqueness of their voice.
That, sir, is because you are so knowledgable, while I am not so!
sureshvv wrote: 02 Jul 2017, 15:29 I have observed that musicians from other cities have a certain difference in approach. So may be you should try to listen to some of them and see if you find the same thing,
Even I have observed that with Amrutha Venkatesh... do you have any other suggestions?

Nick H
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by Nick H »

I have the luxury of RS hall and knowing Suresh :). And yes, please say hello... Brinda is singing tonight!

You have picked three artists that are favourites of both us.

Please try to come tonight, especially if you have not seen her before. The Brinda experience is unique! :) :oops:

vijay.siddharth
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by vijay.siddharth »

Unfortunately, I cannot. Too much work from school and I have to finish a 1500 word essay tonight!

I won't miss Vedavalli, though. The Karaharapriya she sung last season in MA still rings in my ears!!

arasi
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by arasi »

Vijay.siddharth,
You know more about music than some of us here, it seems :
I do not fathom the implication of the word 'raw' that you used initially--in MLV's case too! tabla rasa is best suited for savoring the rasA in music, I would think...

Welcome, another Lion city resident :)

sureshvv
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Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by sureshvv »

vijay.siddharth wrote: 02 Jul 2017, 15:41 do you have any other suggestions?
Keep the evening of the 20th free & pray that parivadini will be on :D

sankark
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by sankark »

My arm chair theory is that the PSN style has created ripples in the CM pond; those ripples and ripples from other styles are undergoing both constructive and destructive interferences which may yield some good and bad banis.

I too think there is an iota of truth in what vijay says - there seem to be too much of sameness.

sankark
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by sankark »

And, IIRC, PSN style itself would be a SSN style derivative.

Nick H
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by Nick H »

You know what they say: where-ever you are, there will always be a PSN student performing within 200 metres

:lol:

Sivaramakrishnan
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

To me, some of the reasons for 'uniquelessness' of voices are:

1. Proliferation of artists
2.Tutelage under several Gurus
3. Exposure to various genres of music
4. Gadget / media / Cyber learning

However by constant/regular listening and personal attendance at concerts and intensive listening from recordings, one can develop the ability of identifying the singers from their voice.

Same is the case with instruments, barring a few artists.

vijay.siddharth
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by vijay.siddharth »

arasi wrote: 02 Jul 2017, 19:49 I do not fathom the implication of the word 'raw' that you used initially--in MLV's case too! tabla rasa is best suited for savoring the rasA in music, I would think...
To me, rawness in music is not about shouting or screaming or gesticulating or dancing midway during the concert. Rawness it putting (and showing) 100% of your energy in your music and showing it. MLV's dazzling brigas (the Madhyamavathi she sings using the RR MM NN RR prayogam is one example), MS's unbridled bhakti, and Somu just unleashing kalpana everywhere, all strikes me as being raw. Why, even Brindamma's meditative music, in absorbing herself and surrendering herself to the music, is also, to some degree 'raw'! Rawness was present in all the great's music - you don't need RAW nor ISI to find that :lol: :lol:

AS an aside: I, as a longtime lurker in the forum, am a huge fan of your witty verse!

M SIDDHARTHA BHATT
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by M SIDDHARTHA BHATT »

Namaskars ! In my opinion there are neither Gharanas nor Banis in Karnatic Music. There are only accents - " phenomenal, structural or metrical" . Heavy accented vocal or instrumental or percussion cannot be construed as bani or gharana. Just like some seasoned film actors who act in the same repetitive style cannot be interpreted as starting of a bani. A bani in my opinion is an original, innovative path breaking style like a Gharana. The famous vocalists, violinists and mridangists of yester years with their heavy signature accents cannot be presumed to have started banis even though there may be claims.

sureshvv
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by sureshvv »

M SIDDHARTHA BHATT wrote: 03 Jul 2017, 19:13 A bani in my opinion is an original, innovative path breaking style like a Gharana.
Aren't you contradicting yourself? If it is original, innovative and path breaking, how can it be duplicated/emulated by students?

M SIDDHARTHA BHATT
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by M SIDDHARTHA BHATT »

Yes you are right. There is contradiction but in my opinion in all branches of Karnatic Music there is cross lineage of Gurus. Almost all great artists in Karnatic music would have studied from two to three great artists of different styles. Also there is adaptation to trends and fashions in the presentations unlike in the Gharanas tradition where trending into another Gharana is almost blasphemous. May be this is good for Karnatic music as it is open for change. Namaskars !

shankarank
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Re: The Development of a Bani

Post by shankarank »

Spic Macay about 1988 or 1989 . Veena S Balachandar IITM CLT. Somebody asked what is a GharANa and do we have anything equivalent.

I forget how he explained GharANA - but I remember his response on the equivalence as he rattled out in quick sequence with impish glee : we have AriyakuDi style.. chemmanguDi style.. GNB style.. Maharajapuram style.. doing a long / short there - where names were blurt out in quick snippant/short duration in comparison to the time allotted for the suffix style... :twisted:. Somebody then shouted Balachander style - he was all a blushing child in fleeting.., quickly getting a serious face: " yes.. Balachandar style in vINAAA ..." with a downward inflection!! :lol:

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