Shrutibedam used as a beautiful metaphor

[Meera]

Recently I happened to read " VILIMBIL " supposed to be the last book some thing like an autobiography by late lA.sA.rA.
He has used shrutibedam as a metaphor to define creation.He writes "During shrutibedam the performer neither deviates from the shruti nor ragam.yet the listener hears a variety of ragams.Sameway the creator's creation is all but one ; but being viewed as male,female,this,that,etc.
I was awestruck by his writing.Being a music lover and a seeker I got connected to this metaphor instantly.
Its a great book to read even if you haven't read the author before.

[rshankar]

lA sa rA = Lalgudi Saptarishi Ramamritham??

[vasanthakokilam]

Meera, yes, illusion ( auditory raga illusion ) is a metaphor for the ultimate illusion, the mAyA of advaitam.

It is quite relatable in that context.

It is not just the creator's creations are all one but all that is created is an illusion and hence there is nothing but the creator. In that sense the metaphor even holds strongly.

Musical phrase to raga mapping is dependent on the Shadjam background. The same musical phrase is mapped to a different raga in our minds when that background changes in our minds hence the illusion of a different raga.

If that is how the metaphor goes, we are all playing to different shadjams, and moksha is about finding and latching on to the original shadjam, the real adhAra Shadjam.

[Sachi_R]

Meera,
What a beautiful concept. Thanks for sharing it!
The only thing is that the Creator makes the rules (=Srutibheda) but He is beyond rules. So He can create multidimensional universes of beauty and joy beyond any relatable concept ie. our reckoning.

Bhagavadgita 10.41:
yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ
śrīmad ūrjitam eva vā
tat tad evāvagaccha tvaṁ
mama tejo-’ṁśa-sambhavam

Know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor.

BG 14.4
sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.

Vasanthakokilam,
I find absolutely no need to go towards the idea of Maya or Illusion (a negative idea) to enjoy and experience the wonderful universe of Satyam +Shivam +Sundaram (a positive idea).

The affirmation of God for me doesn't warrant any denial of His works

Just saying.

[arasi]

Yes, Sachi
Bharathi's lines on mAyai:
uNmai aRindavar unnai gaNipparO, mAyaiyE!
உண்மையறிந்தவர் உன்னை கணிப்பரோ, மாயையே!


Kalyanaraman's version of it--if someone can bring it here! Thanks in advance. sumanEsa rajani it is

[Pratyaksham Bala]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpTuMF-wC3k

[vasanthakokilam]

Sachi, I am not well versed in the deeper aspects of the various Hindu philosophies, I was just using the often used concept of Advaitic Maya to link it with the Mayai that is ShrutiBedam.

[Sachi_R]

Yes, of course, I too am not going there.

But for me srutibhedam is not Maya! It is simply scale-changing with same swara positions but a different tonic ("sruti"-bhedam). In fact loooong back, I was told that a vainika derived all the 72 melakartas by starting with KHP and doing srutibhedam. The musician then sings the new scale with the flavour of the new raga, gamaka and all, and accepts the applause.

Just this morning, on 100.1FM, a nothing-much-to-report vocal concert featured a Todi-Kalyani modal shift.

[arasi]

All that I can say as a not well-schooled rasikA (rasikA all the same), is that the bhEdams do not touch me--meaning, I do not understand what's going on, but I do know it's on because the flow of the concert is interrupted (for me). Don't raise your eyebrows, cognoscenti

It has also become a (fashion?) statement of late--even the very young performers give it a whirl it seems...

[rshankar]

All that I can say as a not well-schooled rasikA (rasikA all the same), is that the bhEdams do not touch me--meaning, I do not understand what's going on,

True - we cannot all be 'sarasa sAma dAna bhEda daNDa catura'......

[arasi]

Ravi... Or , should I go

[Sachi_R]

bhedacaturaḥ sāmaṃ tyaktvā māṃ kṣudra-rasikaṃ daṇḍayati! aho etat sarasaḥ vā viparyāsaḥ!?

[rshankar]

Ravi... Or , should I go

- I should add that my tongue is rooted firmly in my cheek now!!

[shankarank]

sAma - we discuss music
dAna - sometimes we are nice to each other
bhEda - we are the cognoscenti that have a good discrimination
daNDa - we sometimes have at each other

so we have it all!! here @ rasikas.

[shankarank]

a vainika derived all the 72 melakartas by starting with KHP and doing srutibhedam.

san-kara-toDi-kal-hari-naTa - with d2 on kharaharapriya lacking a pancamam - skipping that, this forms a closed set. From D2 you will get a dvi-madyama rAga! Did he switch to cycle of fourths somewhere?!

Has group theory been formally applied to musical structures?

In the String theory all different particles are vibrations of the same quantum energy loop in different modes!

A para-physicist ( if that is even legitimate) wants to reduce the 3 quarks as a manifestation of the 3 physical dimensions - everything is from geometry - he believes in Einsteinism!

Something we discussed in viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27029. Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW4p0Of8-Dg - this guy is going against String theory!

[shankarank]

Back to music: Tiger was quoted by NSG ( in somewhat jovial sense) as saying - all svaras occur in all rAgas - I think I heard it amidst the Carnatic Jam session - IIRC.

[vasanthakokilam]

Yes, of course, I too am not going there.

But for me srutibhedam is not Maya! It is simply scale-changing with same swara positions but a different tonic ("sruti"-bhedam). In fact loooong back, I was told that a vainika derived all the 72 melakartas by starting with KHP and doing srutibhedam. The musician then sings the new scale with the flavour of the new raga, gamaka and all, and accepts the applause.

Just this morning, on 100.1FM, a nothing-much-to-report vocal concert featured a Todi-Kalyani modal shift.

Ah.. got it.

The reason I consider it an illusion is, the tonic is not explicitly changed. If you ignore any gamama changes applied, there is no difference in what the singer is singing. There is a bit of sleight of hand to force the rasika to switch to a different tonic temporarily and that too only in their minds. The rasikas perceives a different melodic motif (raga). Like in a Chinese restaurant where they play a pentatonic music, one person may say they are hearing Mohanam and another may say they are hearing the Suddha Saveri Aesthetics. It is all the same phenomenon.

Contrast this with a non illusiary sruthi change. Switching to the Madyamasruthi done typically at the end of the concert. That is a real switch.

Shrutibedam is akin to the visual illusion ( like the old woman - young woman maya ) where depending on what background you focus on, the shape you see is different. The background here is the sruthi and the artist makes you believe in a different background to make you sense a different raga

[shankarank]

That begs the question, if Sruti is not turned on.. but somebody sings tODi, or even Suddha SavEri, can somebody really hear some other rAgam? The Chinese restaurant example is illustrative in that - it implies that it depends on the approach to music - where no particular notes are held somewhat as a constant etc... may be all of them are randomly gliding or plain.

For Sruti bhEdam, the singer for some time has to stand on a note to transmit a new Adhara Sruti and then consciously handle other svaras as the new rAga's notes to convey the picture. So it cannot be said that there is no difference in what the singer is singing.

In the recent KBMK Pallavi Durbar, Mahesh S's listing puts the the third tAnam rAga as kharaharapriya with a "?" mark. So he did not hear kharahara Priya quite clearly there.

[vasanthakokilam]

Cases like tODi have the accompanying gamaka changes. But Suddha Saveri reveals itself in scalar prayogas as well.

I asked a western classical musician about this since such modal shift of tonic is a very normal practice there. Mode and raga are equivalents at the scale level. So if we just shift to a new scale and not employ any gamaka of the new raga, then it is pretty much the same as modal shift of tonic. But if raga specific gamakas are applied, then we can call it 'raga shift of tonic'.

Ok, so the question I asked him is 'There is no drone in western classical, but the modal shift happens quite frequency, how does the audience then perceives the shift and the accompanying change in aesthetics? The artist is going to be playing the same set of keys (on the Piano).

His answer is 'Rhythmic emphasis + tonal emphasis. If you keep playing a note on a "strong" pulse, it will start feeling like "home""

That seems more or like the same as what the CM artist does when shifting tonic for Graha Bedam . Given it is really short, just focussing on the characteristic phrases of the new raga along with the gamaka seals the deal.

(Sachi, as to your point, I agree these are not total illusions on the consumer side alone, a real change is happening from the producer side as well by changing the emphasis ( and holding on to the new tonic for a little while ) to setup the new tonic )