Replacing Sahitya with Meaningless Gibberish?

[Sachi_R]

Arasi, you're the Sribhashyakaara Ramanuja to my Brahmasutrakaara Badarayana Vyasa!

[arasi]

Sachi,
That's something! However, you know them and their works. I know only their names and a tad more, I'm afraid

[shankarank]

Thanks Arasi for that nice poetic summary.

Sachi's levels can only be supplemented below by the cosmology of Sound by Dr HMB - as to what led up to words in the first place.

1. Primordial Sound ( Vowels)
2. Long and Short - (dIrga/hrasva) ( leading to the formation of Chandas the venerated Meter)
3. Stressful consonants -
- starting (ending of the vaRNa mAla) with "sa" ( Dr HMB's Sangita Kalpadruma) at the outer end - where we connect with the Cosmos - ha is an open air emission - no stress - used in sAma chanting.
- starting with "ka" at the inner end - the upAsana mentioned by dIskhitar in his first(SrI nAthAdi guruguhO): kAdi vidya ( mAtmaka kAdi matAnuSHTAnO) - where subramhaNya (son) is in meditation towards divine mother - and the kriti ends with him teaching the same to his father ( mahESasya mahARthOpadESa)

4. Words formed putting together letters with differential stresses!

Meaning arises from the upAdhi (- translated as fraud/deceit/limitation imposed on - but I will take it as suffering) of humans!

That we speak of several cosmologies at various levels ( even allegorically or imaginatively) is the deep awareness within the System!

[shankarank]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB_lc00AWIE&t=2164s

A discussion with Neurologist dwells on cognitive reduction or limitation imposed by writing!

[kvchellappa]

MLV amma’s lec-demo on Thodi (courtesy Varsha) explains clearly how Thyagaraja has set different Krithis to not only different sangathis but also to different aspects of bhakthi. Spencer Venugopal’s talk on Ramand Krishnan centenary celebration enlightens as to how he has elucidated how a raga to be sung etc. Thus, the theory that the composer(s) did not bother about meaning seems unfounded.

[Sachi_R]

Thanks for KVC. Can you kindly post the two links here for me?

[narayara000]

Yes pl post links

[kvchellappa]

From FB

Radha Bhaskar

#Musicthoughts13# Does the internalisation of the lyrics & it's meaning have significant impact on the delivery of the song? The answer is a big YES after hearing the exposition of Sri Neyveli Santhanagopalan on Raga Vagadeeswari & the Kriti Paramathmudu in it recently.The way he has analysed the lyrics & revelled on each word seemed so penetrating & created a magic spell on the listener as he sang it. It was an experience to be truly cherished! Quite in contrast to one young singer in a TV channel today who was referring to the script for every word of every song he was singing. The rendition seemed like a hanging skeleton ! Well, Sahithya is not just a peg to hang the raga, it is much beyond that and contributes substantially in the music making. It is our own inadequacy which makes us think otherwise!!

[Sachi_R]

Thanks for sharing, KVC. Radha Bhaskar is saying something I agree with 100%.

[Nick H]

My brain can turn anything into meaningless gibberish.

Whenever I see Mahendra XUV vehicle, my brain sings it to tune of bhogindra saying.

Yesterday I went to Madipakkam... Too the tune after Adai Kallam.

(apologies for probably wrong spellings)

[shankarank]

NickH, you have invested the time to hear this nAdA , however imperfectly, insincerely it is uttered. That is because even if the people are so imperfect, the system still says it is traditional - at least as a lip service tries to honor the past! That spirit is what draws people like you to listen often to the same thing!

So your brain can sing the tune anywhere!

[kvchellappa]

Has it got something to do with the title?

[Nick H]

So your brain can sing the tune anywhere!

Many, many years ago, school days, in fact, I sang out a couple of words to part of the Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah. Amazed by how easily they fitted, I tried some others, and others, and others. Perhaps I had discovered that Handel had written the universal melody, to which anything could be sung!

Sometimes it is some likeness in the sound of the words, more often it is something in the rhythm that fits, but this combining of odd words with some song, and then making (suffering? ) an earworm of it is a mental habit.

[jshrikanth]

Here's an alternative take on evolution of music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSpPgXRb5Cg

With 'gibberish' in the thread title, and now Nick's reference to the Hallelujah chorus, I couldn't resist posting this classic scene from Mel Brook's History of the World Part 1.
My apologies for digressing from the discussion.