Raga Swap

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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shriram.krishnan72
Posts: 52
Joined: 14 May 2017, 13:28

Raga Swap

Post by shriram.krishnan72 »

What kind of modern day music sorcery is this :D :shock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-FArXttr3s

Lakshman
Posts: 14019
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52

Re: Raga Swap

Post by Lakshman »

This is nothing new. Yesudas had sung the mAyAmALavagauLa tAna varNa sarasAngi nI pai marulu konnadirA in sarasAngi.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Raga Swap

Post by sureshvv »

Interesting effort. Yesudas may have been able to get away with it :) let us see how the Trichur Bros. fare!

ram1999
Posts: 534
Joined: 26 Nov 2015, 17:20

Re: Raga Swap

Post by ram1999 »

When TMK can sing a begada ragam followed by a varali ragam and violing return in sankarabaranam followed by bhairavi ata tala varnam why is a raga swap being questioned.

It is all being creative :D :D :D

vijay.siddharth
Posts: 358
Joined: 14 May 2017, 13:08

Re: Raga Swap

Post by vijay.siddharth »

Well, TMK sir has not sung Bhairavi ata tala varnam in Mandhara Varshini or some other ragam, while the Trichur Brothers (who I like) have done it.

TBH- this is very common, even with things like Gnanamosagarada and Pahi Rama Dootha and Morabettide being changed. Why, even I sometimes (one a whim) play the Reethigowla Ata Tala varnam in Narireethigowla!!!

SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Raga Swap

Post by SrinathK »

Raga Transposition isn't new. Now as to whether an audience accepts it or not -- I can tell you that at Musicians' home labs Inc., lots of stuff happens that never makes it to the stage.

Before someone rings the "the doom of tradition" warning bells, I should inform you that it's really a very simple concept -- one that even beginners are exposed to as soon as you tell them to sing their sarali varsais in Shankarabharanam or Kalyani. A lot of us get these ideas right from the time we start singing sarali varsais in several ragas and we have even experimented them on geetams, kritis and even varnams. The idea is kind of built in to the very basics of Carnatic music. :mrgreen:

This habit though has resulted in some permanent impact when it's done on krithis and ragas -- manasulOni, sAmaja vara gamana, mOkshamu galadA, nagumOmu ganalEni, many songs in reetigauLa, the rAga andhAli, are only some living examples. In fact, T Brinda is on record saying that she never sang mOkshamu because she's the only one who'll still sing it with D2 (Can you even imagine singing that on stage today?)

Yesudas also literally transposed the Abhogi varnam's structure and swara patterns in Mohanam with fresh lyrics and sang it as a new varnam.

I've also done this in my practice sessions. Try this in Bhupalam, Shivaranjani or Vasanti. An interesting result of doing things like this is that it makes you realize things like

a) that certain phrases and swara combinations that work so well for one raga simply don't gel with another despite the same arohanam and avarohanam - e.g. passages in Shakarabharanam like GMP,-(G)R,S or SD,P would better belong in Dhanyasi and not Thodi. This itself will tell you just how phrase dependent a raga is. The original sampoorna ragas are all extremely different in their handling and phrasing. The rest of the 72 haven't evolved to that level of individuality yet.

b) With the S R G P D S - S D P G R S series, transposition is actually quite straightforward.

It is also this idea that gives rise to certain types of ragamalika RTPs that use the ragas belonging to this or any other series.

However with due respect to the compositions of CM and the impact that this exercise can have if popularized on stage, I put this in the academic research box and the manodharma box, not in the composition box.

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Raga Swap

Post by shankarank »

sureshvv wrote: 13 Aug 2017, 17:40 let us see how the Trichur Bros. fare!
Earlier in Dallas about 2 years back, they did extra swaps in tAlam, I mean they dished out extra dRtams during svaraprastara with extra palm swaps! dRtams for sale ( or even come free) type comments set the inter-texting on fire!!

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Raga Swap

Post by shankarank »

It seems it is open season on vaRNams:

https://youtu.be/Ckg1rsDsCWw?t=644

https://youtu.be/Gk3zhlz3gC8?t=372

kAravai swaps if you will :lol:

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Raga Swap

Post by sureshvv »

shankarank wrote: 14 Aug 2017, 01:21

Earlier in Dallas about 2 years back, they did extra swaps in tAlam, I mean they dished out extra dRtams during svaraprastara with extra palm swaps! dRtams for sale ( or even come free) type comments set the inter-texting on fire!!
Find that a bit incredible. Was that because of a lapse in layam where they could not land correctly? The times that I have heard them, they were extremely well prepared and were able to maintain their composure right thru'.

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Raga Swap

Post by shankarank »

No they maintained the beats ( it became beats!! ) and were in their world of frenzy , but the one on the left was observed doing extra dRtams!
Last edited by shankarank on 15 Aug 2017, 06:49, edited 1 time in total.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Raga Swap

Post by sureshvv »

How one puts the tala (the kriya) is a matter of style and allows some latitude -- so this may just be yet another instance of your hypercritical bent :D

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Raga Swap

Post by shankarank »

So you mean to say the Adi tALam can extend itself with dRtams more than two with svaras proceeding in rapid fire pace. But for the second of the duo keeping it right.. he may have lost course eventually!

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Raga Swap

Post by sureshvv »

Could it be possible that you were misled by an palm up gesture and treated that as the extra drtam?

Sivaramakrishnan
Posts: 1582
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 08:29

Re: Raga Swap

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

No wrong in thinking differently but such swaps / seizures / hijacks shan't be carried to the platforms.

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