Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
Ramamoorthy
Posts: 3
Joined: 31 Aug 2016, 06:03

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by Ramamoorthy »

Hi, Pranamam to Elders and Gurus.

Was searching something in internet and this topic came up. This thread is dead for a while, but I couldn't help post my experience. I request the seniors to forgive me, if you find my write up blasphemous.

But I am compelled to write, because I am sure, there are many who have the same thoughts as I have on music. Most who are in the verge of midlife crisis with ‘music-virus’ haunting them or even a casual listener might find this useful.

Background:
I was born and brought up in an Agraharam which reverberated with Carnatic music, yet I chose to stay away till adulthood. Chance listening to good music some 20 years ago and everything about my childhood came back to me with a bang. I was hooked and wanted to learn, vocal or an instrument. Again mundane life took me elsewhere. But I was fortunate to listen to carnatic music all along. In Oct 2012, my friend and colleague gave me her son’s old violin and told me to learn. I summed up courage and joined a school where my classmates were of my son’s age. After couple of months I stopped. A chance transfer to Calicut in June 2013 and an accidental introduction, I found a divine guru in Shri. Vijayan who is a brilliant violinist as well as a vocalist. I have been learning from him from June 2013 till June 2016, when I shifted back to Cochin. After fiddling around, I am now learning from a Guru in Ernakuam.

Here is what I found about myself:
Classes for young children and for adults should be different. For young students it’s easy with their fingers and they can easily make out varisais in fourth speed whereas adults will find it tough to make even ‘sa-ri-ga-ma’ to third or even second speed. My old classmates were small kids and I found it difficult to follow them. My first guru in Cochin was adamant that I be able to make out sa-ri-ga-ma to fourth speed before starting Sarali Varisai. I found that either bowing will be good or left hand finger placement; never both at the same time. My interest faded and I stopped after couple of months of torturing my neighbors.

In Calicut, most of my classmates were adults; all started as adults. Classes once a week. My guru starts next lesson, when I am able to finish the current lesson by at least 50%. So if I could achieve one sarali varisai in second speed, he introduced me to next varisai. By the time I finish this lesson by 50%, or second speed, I am able to produce the first lesson by third speed. I could play in Fourth speed in Sarali Varisai only after completing Janda Varisai.

Most of the adult students stop playing at Janda varisai or Thara Sthayi Varisai. These are, in my opinion, the most difficult of all structured lessons. My Guru knew this and he was a bit easy with Janda varisai as well as Vakrajanda and troublesome Datu varisais. I somehow managed to complete it at that time. But now, it appears immensely easier. Many a times, the urge to throw away the violin gripped me; but somehow I survived. I keep the violin in bed. Full credits to my wife, without uttering a word, will move it from the bed in night and tolerating the industrial sounds I made during the initial months. Practice for at least an hour daily is a must and I followed it up till geetham. During Swarajathi the practice increased by one and half hours daily. While studying Varnam, I practiced three hours daily, divided equally in the morning and evening with more time on Saturdays and Sundays.

In the three years I was in Caliut, I learned 10 adi thala varnams and 12 keerthanams, though half the keerthaams were learned for the sake of it, as I know my time with my Guru is going to end. After a month's rest and aimless practice, I started learning from another Guru in Cochin. This time, I went back to Varnams. I am trying to refresh what I have learned so far.

I have no dreams of performing a Kucheri. No exam to pass. No one to impress, except myself. I know my limitations. My bowing and thalam keeping are far from satisfactory. I have only one speed. It's neither first or second, but somewhere in between. Despite my attempts, I can't slow down, and that affects my bowing. i can't keep the thalam, though I tend to fairly keep a constant speed. May be it will take 10 more years before I reach a level wherein my guru would be comfortable to have me as accompanist.

So here is the sum up, to those who think like what I thought years ago about learning as adult.

1. Forget the shame and find out a good guru. Learn in all earnest. Think that this is the last thing you do in life. Start with minimum one hour practice daily and slowly increase as you progress. Fingers will not obey our command at first. It will not make the ‘square shape’. It will be difficult to find ma after sa-ni-da-pa during descent. The thumb will move instead of being fixed in one position. But don’t bother. As your lessons progress, you’ll find fingers keeping the correct shape and in correct position.

2. Start with an old violin; if possible, there are numerous ads in OLX from those who stopped midway. Also, get a tuner. Even an android tuner like gStrings will do. Check the tuning once in a while. Maintain one pitch for Sa. I tune sa to “D”. Quality of finger placements improves during Sarali varisai, if the violin is tuned at the same pitch all the time. After janda varisai, it is easy to tune all strings without the help of tuner, once “A” string is tuned correctly.

3. The little finger is a tricky. Even now am not fully using little finger to find Pa in “A” string. I manage with middle finger. After starting varnam, I started all varisais and alankaras with little finger Pa and I find it easier. Bowing with full bow is another headache. My guru is absolutely not at all happy with my bowing. I am persisting as best as I can.

4. Resist the urge to stop during janda varisai. I know saying this is easy. But resist the temptation. I am sure that once you listen to yourself playing ‘Vara veena’, you’ll never stop playing. Beg your guru to go a bit easy. My guru in Calicut Shri. Vijayan should get Nobel Prize for patience, for tolerating students like me.

5. After janda varisai, the urge to stop will come back during difficult Geethams. I struggled with my bowing while playing ‘Re Re Sri Ramachandra in Arabhi and during Swarajathi; especially Kamas. Never even think about Syama Shastri Swarajathis. The struggle to find upper-Pa was successful only after Hamsadwani varnam anupallavi. The Kamboji geetham sounds exceedingly refreshing after Kamboji Ata Thala Varnam.

6. Again the next time the urge to stop come back while attempting gamakam while playing varnam. My guru was insistent that Gamakam should be introduced only during Varnam. Resist the urge to ‘experiment’ during geetham and swarajathi. For Sruthi-sudham, plain notes during varisai, alankaras, geetham and swarajathi are must. I still remember the thrill when I successfully attempted “sa-ri-ga-pa-ga-ri-sa-ri” in Mohanavarnam in single bow with gamakam after three hours of continuous practice and it sounded wonderful (to me).

7. Listen to Carnatic music, especially veena. My Sankarabharanam varnam has just started to sound like Sankarabharanam, after two years of learning Varnam. Listening to music has immensely helped me in learning fast.

8. Explore as you go up. Playing Chathusruthi Dha in A-String became a habit after Vasantha Varnam and it was thrilling when my fingers traced Ni in A-String attempting pa-ma-ga-ni in Kalyani varnam anupallavi.

So fiddle away. There are no one to stop you, but yourself.

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by Nick H »

A wonderful post, which I am sure will give hope to others :)

TheListener
Posts: 28
Joined: 03 Feb 2012, 04:52

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by TheListener »

Nick,

Just curious. Is your Mridangam teacher at BVB Sri Madurai K.Rangarajan?

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by Nick H »

No... Sri M Balachandar.

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

So fiddle away. There are no one to stop you, but yourself.

This can become a famous quote in the future doing its rounds in the webspace.

S.NAGESWARAN
Posts: 1076
Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 08:54

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by S.NAGESWARAN »

DEAR RASIKAS,
AFTER LISTENING TO THE CARNATIC MUSIC AT THE AGE OF 20, WITH LIKE MINDED FRIENDS, I WAS ALSO TEMPTED TO LEARNING CARNATIC AND JIONED A MUSIC SCHOOL.
I WAS ALSO FELT EMBRASSED TO BE WITH STUDENTS IN THE IN THE AGE GROUP OF 5 TO 10 YEARS OF AGE
AND DISCONTINUED LEARNING CM PROPERLY.

BUT THIS HAD MOTIVATED ME TO IMPART MUSIC TO MY CHILDREN AT THE YOUNG AGE.

MY ELDEST SON KARTHIK LEARNED TO PLAY VIOLIN AND MY DAUGHTER AND SECOND SON ANAND VOCAL
MUSIC TILL THEY WERE ABLE TO LISTEN TO MY ADVICE.
THEY REFUSED TO LEARN FURTHER AFTER 3 YEARS.

BUT ONCE THEY GOT MARRIED AND HAD CHILDREN,
THEY ALSO WANTED TO IMPART MUSIC TO THEIR CHILDREN LIKE ANY FATHER WOULD DO.

NOW YOU ALSO KNOW THAT MY GRAND DAUGHTER
SRINIDHI IS A GOOD SINGER ( COURTESY SRI SHARMAJI) AND MY GRAND DAUGHTERS SRUTHI AND
HARSHA LEARNING MUSIC FOR THE PAST 2 YEARS.

ONCE YOU START LISTENING TO CARNATIC MUSIC,
YOU ARE ADDICTED AND THE THE HAPPINESS AND PEASE OF MIND YOU FEEL WILL SUSTAIN TO THE WHOLE OF YOUR LIFE.

S.NAGESWARAN.
07.09
2016.

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

Hello Thelistener , I will write more of my experience similar to you while I was in my 20's.. watch this space.

Ramamoorthy
Posts: 3
Joined: 31 Aug 2016, 06:03

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by Ramamoorthy »

Ramamoorthy wrote: 03 Sep 2016, 19:08
In the three years I was in Calicut, I learned 10 adi thala varnams and 12 keerthanams, though half the keerthaams were learned for the sake of it, as I know my time with my Guru is going to end. After a month's rest and aimless practice, I started learning from another Guru in Cochin. This time, I went back to Varnams. I am trying to refresh what I have learned so far.
Hi

Updating about my violin studies. Work pressure and lack of suitable time made me stop learning from the Guru in Cochin. I had learned Navaragamalika Varnam and Kamboji Ata Thala Varnam from him. My attempt at learning Natta Adi Thala varnam ended in failure as i struggled with Charana swaras.

So, from November, 2016 till Jan, 2017, I practiced what I had learned so far. Practicing Varnam was easier; but keerthanams gave me enough headaches all along. Hence I stuck to varnams.

February, 2017, I went back to my old guru Sri.Viyayan Sir in Calicut. As weekend travels facilitated a suitable time slot at Calicut. Guru evaluated my practice so far. he said that the bowing came to within acceptable levels and left hand finger movements have improved. Some forms and shapes of Raga seems to appear when I draw the bow for alapana. Yet timing and tala are still headaches. Speed is not coming down.

He taught me a keerthana too; Ninnu nera nammi in Pantuvarali. I had requested him to teach me a keerthanam in a raga in which i had learned Varnam.

Unfortunately, classes had to discontinued as I am expecting transfer within a month and relocation. As per my guru's suggestion, I have started practicing initial lessons from Sarali Varisai in only first speed so as to drill the timing in my brain.

I had made one promise to Guru. I will continue to play till I am disabled or dead. I will try to improve myself till I reach the level I intend to reach. I am a perfectionist. As I wrote before, I have no exams to pass.

Lets see what life has in store for me.

regards

Ramamoorthy

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by Nick H »

Glad to hear your ongoing story, and glad that it is ongoing/continuing.

melam72
Posts: 494
Joined: 02 Nov 2016, 16:12

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by melam72 »

In Singapore, there is a teacher named Lazar who teaches Keyboard and Violin to mature students.

He avoids the pitfall of putting adult and young students in the same goshti, and splits them up so the former aren't emasculated by the latter. Even in performances, he puts older and younger students of the same skill levels together, instead of grouping according to age, etc.

But I think his main success is that he engages the adult students in small talk after giving the lesson, and treats them more as adults. Because of that, most of his adult students stay up to Varnam levels at least, except in extenuating circumstances. IIRC, his oldest student ever was around 70!

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by Nick H »

melam72 wrote: 26 Mar 2017, 17:17He avoids the pitfall of putting adult and young students in the same goshti, and splits them up so the former aren't emasculated by the latter.
Phew, maybe I had a narrow escape. My class mates at London BVB never emasculated me!

On the contrary, they helped me musically, and never age-discriminated against me when we played together. It was an enriching experience, and some of them, now young professional adults, are still friends.

:D

melam72
Posts: 494
Joined: 02 Nov 2016, 16:12

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by melam72 »

Nick H wrote: 26 Mar 2017, 22:42
melam72 wrote: 26 Mar 2017, 17:17He avoids the pitfall of putting adult and young students in the same goshti, and splits them up so the former aren't emasculated by the latter.
Phew, maybe I had a narrow escape. My class mates at London BVB never emasculated me!
:D
What I mean by emasculation is bullying because of your age.

Watchers of Vijay TV's classic, evergreen, Deivam Thanda Veedu will remember the experiences of Seetha when she goes to get 'educated' in the nursery alongside younger kids.

Since most forumites listen to Karnataka sangeetham, they are spared of the histrionics of the Chakravathy family whose idea of a diet seems to be Pooris and pulao :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If not, why?

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by Nick H »

What I mean by emasculation is bullying because of your age.
Well, I didn't think you meant it literally! :lol:

But I emphasise that I cannot speak too highly of the experience. Even though I might sometimes have acted like a grown-up (the mridangam boys could be very unruly sometimes) they generally never treated me like one. I was one of the crowd, both in fun and in learning.

I can understand that watching young minds and young fingers racing ahead of our own can be intimidating, but one just has to accept the difference in physical and mental dexterity. The really amazing skill that I saw in the teacher was not handling children of different ages, but handling a roomful of children of widely differing ability. And for each student there is often something that they happen to grasp that others find difficult, and therefore something that they can help others with.

Ramamoorthy
Posts: 3
Joined: 31 Aug 2016, 06:03

Re: Learn Violin or Mridangam at around 40 yrs of age?

Post by Ramamoorthy »

Ramamoorthy wrote: 25 Mar 2017, 10:33
February, 2017, I went back to my old guru Sri.Viyayan Sir in Calicut. As weekend travels facilitated a suitable time slot at Calicut. Guru evaluated my practice so far. he said that the bowing came to within acceptable levels and left hand finger movements have improved. Some forms and shapes of Raga seems to appear when I draw the bow for alapana. Yet timing and tala are still headaches. Speed is not coming down.

He taught me a keerthana too; Ninnu nera nammi in Pantuvarali. I had requested him to teach me a keerthanam in a raga in which i had learned Varnam.
Hi

Posting updates. In Calicut, I learned Himadri Suthe apart from Ninnunera Nammi from Vijayan sir.

But job took took me to Karaikal, where I will be spending next three years.
I am now practicing two hours daily whatever I've learned so far. Still much more go to reach even pass mark. Age, it seems is catching up with me. But then, as I said above, I will continue to play till I am able to.

Can anyone help me find a violin guru in Karaikal or anywhere nearby.
If no gurus are found nearbyl, I can travel up to Thiruvarur, 45 km away, twice a month.

Regards and thanks in advance

Ramamoorthy.

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