Discussion on the use of "Few"

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 04 Jul 2010, 01:42

vasanthakokilam wrote:mk, similar to the way you characterized r-t's logic on the 'giant' example, you are interpreting the statement assuming your point is valid. But what we are trying to do is to see what "few are chosen" means from the contextual meaning. We know from the faith that there is no guarantee of being chosen and the probability of no one being chosen is non-zero. ( do not want to go too deep into that theology here.. ) Take that and apply it to this sentence. The emphasis is on 'few" and not on "are".

No, you are leaving the context of "few are" chosen and stressing the presupposition of the meaning for "few" as a probable zero. Leave the argument part out in this case. The Bible sentence is not disputable. Yes, atheists may do so but a devout Christian goes by it.
The reason the Bible said, "many are called...but a few are choen" means some are chosen. So" few" means some in this context. Faith guarantees for sure. That is why it is called faith. The livelihood of religion depends on it. Don't ask me how do you verify if anybody was chosen? That is not in the realm of verification. In fact when Jesus Christ promised salvation in the kingdom of God, he meant in this birth. But then it was modififed by later preceptors as "the reward awaits you in heaven" if you are virtuous and pious.
Even in Hinduism it says, "you may do all kinds of crimes in your life but at your deathbed if you utter "NArAyaNA", you are assured of mOksham" (ajAmiLan story). Same thing with "sAgara kAlattil sankara sankarA".
So, yes there is a guarantee, in this case for ALL. The Bible discriminates between good and bad people. That is why it says few are chosen, In either case there is a guarantee---for all in Vaishnavism and for some in Christianity.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Jul 2010, 01:51

mk, unfortunately any further discussion on this will lead to a debate on the bible based faith itself. ( also, there is the old testament and new testament with significant differences ). The basic idea is one does not put words in to God's mouth. That is, the judgment is solely God's prerogative. If you leave out zero, you are removing certain amount of uncertainty which is a big no-no.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 04 Jul 2010, 06:25

vk:
Faith cannot be questioned. When we say "God" it is the creation of man and codification of conduct was formulated by man. But morals and piety were established at the beginning of civilization. So there is no uncertainty if you have faith. The atheist can include zero--i.e., he can say none will be chosen. That is his prerogative. That is the onlly provision for "few" being zero. But in the general scheme of things "few are chosen" means there will be salvation for those who conduct themselves virtuously and piously.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Jul 2010, 07:29

mk, that may all be true in general, but not true with some of the major bible based faiths, according to my info. It did come as a surprise when I first learned about this a couple of decades back.. Anyway, as I said, this may lead us into the debate about the faith, whether my information is right or not, etc. which is not appropriate for this thread.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jul 2010, 07:29

AjamiLan story and the saying 'SagiRa samayattilEsankarA SankarA' are not one and the same (are they opposites?). The former is a story of how God is so benevolent that even a whimper from you in your death bed will make him come rushing to youfor your rescue. The other one is an expression which means something totally different. It is used in a situation where some (few? a few?) last minute moves won't make things right--to mean, one has to work (or pray) all along. Eleventh hour pleas (with God) or applying oneself at the last hour is not going to help.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 04 Jul 2010, 07:48

VK;
Let us end it here.

ajAmiLan story tells you with one stroke your damnation can be converted into salvation once you utter "nArAyaNa"
As for the "sankara" utterance it is meant to be used as a derisive when people attempt certain things desperately, I know. But the expression came about when it was thought you can ward off punishment for evil deeds by uttering the Lord's name. That was the message. It is similar to going to the priest in the Catholic church and confessing your sins and wiping them away from your slate.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 08 Jul 2010, 20:20

Let us end it here

Yep. Besides, few would miss it! (and that means that at least one person will miss it, of course!

)

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 08 Jul 2010, 20:39

ragam-talam wrote:Yep. Besides, few would miss it! (and that means that at least one person will miss it, of course! )

Yes, you and I will miss it, for sure. Perhaps vk, and Nick H. That constitutes "few".

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Jul 2010, 00:43

I go away for a week's holiday. I pass a birthday, and am presented with grey hair (seriously, noticed the very next day!). I so hate to play the race card, but hey, I'm English. I'll just go on speaking English, while some (a few at least, persist in misunderstanding it!)

Enjoy....

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 09 Jul 2010, 03:23

The first grey hair! That means you attained enlightenment like the Buddha (but so late in life)!

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 09 Jul 2010, 04:42

Nick H wrote:while some (a few at least, persist in misunderstanding it!)

Hey, make sure you get it right! You should say 'few at least...' !!
This is called 'English according to Boswell'

Thankfully, there's little chance others will follow this 'durmaarga'!
Happy b'day, Nick!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jul 2010, 04:48

Nick,
Wiser by a year, no doubt...
Once again, a happy, healthy year! Messing about on a river did you some good, I'm sure

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 09 Jul 2010, 07:43

Happy B'day, Nick...birthdays are for celebration, not looking for gray hairs.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 09 Jul 2010, 08:29

Happy B'day Nick, distinguished will be the word for grey hair!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Jul 2010, 12:41

Thanks for all the birthday wishes... there was plenty of rain in Kerala this time, but we did, indeed, spend the day on the backwaters. We even looked at a few houses for sale, but few of them were of interest... well, actually, not really; only one of them was of interest and that was utterly impractical, both financially and geographically, being a big, 100-year-old house among the paddy fields. It needed knocking down, of course, but the timber could have been used in the rebuild.

Even two years ago I realised that access by boat only was fine on a sunny day, but not when you are desperately trying to get to the doctor in a monsoon storm.

And I would have to have had the internet beamed in!

rasikas.org

Discussion on the use of "Few"

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