Navarathri Mandapam

Concerts and other events related to CM.
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pramodh
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Post by pramodh »

It is said that Chembai never sang at the esteemed Navarathri mandapam even though he was Kerala's gretest ever Carnatic musician. What could have been the reasons for this? As far as I could make out Chembai never had a problem about Swathi krithis.

My own pure speculation is that he could never do without some of his trademark krithis in any concert including Vathapi, Viriboni, Rakshamaam etc and also Narayaneeyam. Obviously only Swathi krithis were allowed at the mandapam.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

As far as I could make out Chembai never had a problem about Swathi krithis.
As you have observed Pramodh, he did not have any problems with the Swathi Krithis or with the Navarathri Mandapam, but only with the ruling royal family of Travancore. The exact nature of the dispute may never be known, but it seems Chembai was not shown due respect when he was first invited to perform there.

Another version goes like this... Chembai demanded a token payment of one paisa or one anna or something like that to perform at the Navarathri Mandapam. His contention was that though it was a Navarathri Utsavam, it was held at the whims of the royal family, and musicians were selected by invitation, and hence the musician should be paid a token amount, however small that may be.

Whatever it was, the royal family took the issue personally and said that Chembai could not have his own way (and that other musicians considered it an honor to merely get an invitation to sing there). Upon which, it seems, Chembai replied that rather than them dictating terms to him, he would himself not perform there for the rest of his life even if invited.

He included Swathi Krithis in his concerts (more often than not, he started his concerts with Sarasijanabha -- Kambhoji varnam, or Chalamela -- Shankarabharanam varnam) and allowed his disciples to perform at the Navarathri Mandapam, thus emhasizing that his dislike was limited to the ego of the royal family.

Also he turned down a request by the Mysore Maharajah to install him as an asthana vidwan of the Mysore Court, since he did not like to act as an appendage. In short he maintained supreme independence of character and refused to toe the line of his predecessors -- and this was in stark contrast to his music, which was very orthodox and refused to depart from his tradition.

pramodh
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Post by pramodh »

Thanks Chembaiji, for that detailed account.

Its indeed unfortunate that he had to fall out with the royal family. Some of his disciples who have performed there include TVG, VVS and Guruvayoor Dorai.

Othe musicians too seem to have had frictions with the family including TNS, KVN and MDR on occasions but they all seem to ventually patch up and perform again.

Coming back to Chembai, although he used to sing Swathi krithis regularly, my own view is that they were not his speciality. If you took other Keralite musicians like MDR or KVN they clearly have left a mark on Swathi krithis with some of their outstanding renditions time and again. For example KVN's rendering of padams, MDR's bhavayami and so on.

I stand to be corrected on this but I think Chembai's repertoire for Swathi krithis were either average or he didnt just sing them too often considereing his Keralite background. I suppose not singing in concert platforms where exclusive Swathi krithis are rendered, like Navarathi mandapam may have had an influence. Or could it be the other way round in that the family had a low threshold for falling out with him given his relatively passive approach to Swathi krithis?

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Yes I concur with you, that Swathi Krithis were not Chembai's speciality, although he used to sing them often. Probably one song where he left his mark was 'Karuna Cheivan Enthu' in Sree ragam (which he re-tuned to Yadukulakambhoji), a composition of Irayimman Thambi (not exactly Swati), but in general, he did not specialise on Swati Krithis. But then, he did not specialize on any other single composer either.

I should also add that Chembai belonged to the Ariyakudi & Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer era (age-wise) and for the major part of their lives, these musicians had not regarded Swathi as a composer of high merit. Most of his songs were not known and so Chembai cannot really be compared on an equal footing with MDR and KVN, who were 30 years junior to Chembai's generation.
I stand to be corrected on this but I think Chembai's repertoire for Swathi krithis were either average or he didnt just sing them too often considereing his Keralite background.
He had some personal favourites which he would present on stage regularly, such as Mamava Sada Janani (Kanada). I wouldn't go so far to say that Chembai's repertoire of Swathi Krithis might have been average, since he did not present all krithis on stage with equal regularity.
I suppose not singing in concert platforms where exclusive Swathi krithis are rendered, like Navarathi mandapam may have had an influence.
This I don't know. Maybe if he had performed in Navarathri Mandapam concerts, he might have sung more Swathi Krithis in other regular concerts too. But it is not a question of poor repertoire.
Or could it be the other way round in that the family had a low threshold for falling out with him given his relatively passive approach to Swathi krithis?
Not performing at Navarathri Mandapam was Chembai's own decision which he upheld till his end. Again, it was a time (upto 1940s) when Swati as a composer was generally not given the treatment which he was due, by almost all leading artists. Most of his kritis were un-explored and untried by the majority of musicians. Chembai was one of the very few musicians who was singing Malayalam songs and Swati krithis in his concerts. He even included Kathakali padams and slokas from the Narayaneeyam quite often in his concerts. So Chembai would have been a logical choice for the Travancore Royal family to propogate Swati Krithis, had it not been for their misunderstanding with him. Also it is a fact widely reported that Chembai was far too independant to submit to royal whims.

Therefore, certainly it was not Chembai's passive approach to Swathi Krithis that led to the fall-out. The reason was one of the two which I mentioned earlier, or maybe both.

shripathi_g
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Post by shripathi_g »

In Sriram.V's book Carnatic Summer, he says that Chembai demanded a token amount of Re.1 since he was not singing in a temple or a noble cause. The Royal members took offense at this since they felt that others considered it an honour to perform there and that was the reason he never performed there.

Rajamani
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Post by Rajamani »

Chembai having demanded a token amount of Re.1/- for performing in Navarathri Mandapam and his request refused by the Royal family could not be true because the artists are being paid remuneration for performing in the Mandapam. Probably Chembai could have stipulated a condition that he should be paid some amount and this could not have been liked by the Royal family.

kaumaaram
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Post by kaumaaram »

Let us stop at this stage and not dig any more. Some musicians maintained their individuality and independence till their end. Talented persons always liked being independent and firm in their convictions.

Kaumaaram

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Here is an article (by the eminent lawyer E.Krishna Iyer, at whose house Chembai performed his first concert in 1904) I received recently from RCji, which I uploaded for everyone's benifit:

http://freepgs.com/carnatic/chembai/chembai.pdf

I guess this article must have been written in the 1920s or 1930s

meena
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Post by meena »

chembai
ur close, it was 1933

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Hmm, thanks.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

It is a very interesting article.
Meena,
Is this the same E. Krishna Iyer that donned women's attire and danced Bharatanatyam in an effort to prevent it from becoming extinct? The great man, who with Rukmini Devi Arundale is credited with rechristening 'sadir/dasiattam/kootu/nautch' as Bharatanatyam (based on Bhavam, ragam and thalam) also in the 1930's. In addition to the efforts of these stalwarts, this name (which conjured up the ideas that it was the dance of India/Bharat; and 'claimed' antiquity from Bharata's Natya Sastra at the same time) played a very significant part in the acceptance of this art form by the conservative middle class. I am amazed at the vision of these two 'dhIrgadharshIs'!
Ravi

meena
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Post by meena »

ur right sankar, the lawyer E krishan iyer.

i had not heard of him, when RC emailed me the artcile i had to google to learn more!

DELETED
Last edited by meena on 06 May 2008, 07:16, edited 1 time in total.

pramodh
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Post by pramodh »

I would like to move away from Chembai slightly and concentrate on the mandapam and the trust that organises it. As I mentioned before it seems that most artistes have had frictions with the Trust/royal family from time to time and patched up eventually. Few have succeeded in singing there continously.

We all know who has shone like a star for more than 50 years singing continously in the mandapam. His prime disciple too has followed his path until recently when there was another friction. It seems there has been some problems relating to a comment about "Bhavayami" by a musician from the royal family itself who wants it retuned by his "guru" as he feels that enough justice has not been done to the ragamalika! So much for gratitude from the royal family to the shining star!

avichiunnu
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Post by avichiunnu »

HI,
Can anybody please upload the concert recordings of navarathri mandapam?I would like to listen to MDR,KVN,TKR,etc.,
regards,
avi

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Pramodh

I dont think that was a disrespectful remark. That might have been one person's opinion. No one can replace the Bhavayami that we know today... it is simply too ingrained in our hearts.

trivandrum
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Post by trivandrum »

who has shone like a star for more than 50 years singing continously in the mandapam
Semmangudi
His prime disciple
PS Narayanaswamy
a musician from the royal family itself
"Prince" Rama Varma
his "guru"
Balamuralikrishna

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

Why the Quotes?

In so far as anybody in this Republic of India is a prince, he is a prince.

If you refer to his preference for music over royalty then you would have done better to leave the word out all together ........

arasi
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Post by arasi »

Nick,
Nice to see your posts. As Bharathi said, 'ellOrum Or kulam, ellOrum Or inam, ellOrum innATTU mannar'--we are all one caste, we are all one clan, we are all princes of this land--he spoke of unity and dignity. Prince or not, there are those who behave as though they are the supreme heads--just the opposite of what Bharathi meant!
You went to the concerts in TVM some time ago--honeymoon combined. Hope life is swell...

nsridhar
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Post by nsridhar »

Hello.

Chembai also used to render the Swati Tirunal krithi Sarasakhsa in Pantuvarali one of his favourite ragam regularly.

Regards

N. Sridhar

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

Thank you, Arasi... Yes, I enjoyed the Trivandram festival very much and life is swell except for the Chennai property prices which are forcing us, in our search for our own home, out of my beloved Abhramapuram/Mylapore into the wilds of Palavakkam. No more Sabhas just a quick walk away :(

Well... it is hardly the ends of the earth and concerts certainly happen regularly in Thiruvanmyur, let alone the city being only half an hour away.

I do not know if I should ever attend Navaratri in Trivandram (Ahh.... the thread topic!). The best place for me at Navaratri is London, where I would not be excluded from taking part in the temple functions.

Of course it is a shame to miss an opportunity to miss a performance by my very modest friend Rama Varma, student of my most-respected Balamuralikrishna...

sangeetarasikan
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Post by sangeetarasikan »

I was told by a friend that this year's Navaratri festival is going to take the radical step forward and feature a woman vocalist for the first time ever. Does anyone know who the lady performer is?

Radhakrishnan
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Post by Radhakrishnan »

Haven’t got the complete list,but K.N.Ranganatha Sharma sings on 26th(thodi) and T.M.Krishna on 28th(panthuvarali)

gundakriya
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Post by gundakriya »

It will be a really commendable development if women perform at the Mandapam, the seat of the Goddess! Wondering how and why the taboo developed in the first place...

"Does anyone know who the lady performer is?"

One hopes the organizers (I believe Rama Varma is runnning the show now) keep in mind the sobriety and divinity of the venue and the need for a decent repertoire of Swati Tirunal kritis when deciding on the performer, be it male or female. Mandapam concerts have, over the years, become a bit stale due to the repetition of a limited set of popular kritis of Swati. I can think of two women who would fit the bill of vidwat, sober (chaste) music and decent Swati repertoire... Dr. K. Omanakutty and Smt. S. Sowmya.

ramanathan
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Post by ramanathan »

The lady performer is 82 yr-old Smt. Parassala Ponnammal, to be featured on Day 1, Sept. 23rd. The full programme schedule will be posted shortly on carnatica.net.
Last edited by ramanathan on 13 Sep 2006, 20:17, edited 1 time in total.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

"Sangeeta Ratna" Parassala Smt. B.Ponnammal

Image

Radhakrishnan
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Post by Radhakrishnan »


arasi
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Post by arasi »

At last, a veteran woman performer!

In a matriarchal society, the tradition of not having a woman perform at the mantapam would not have been a sexist issue. My guess is that in kerala where ritualistic sanctity played an important part (still does, in some ways), they would not have considered including women who go through monthly cycles to be part of the celebration...

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

Up to this year, women (as I understand it) have not even been allowed entry in the audience. They are this year in what is billed as "a major change in tradition".

But not "Non-Hindus".........

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Ah yeah, in some of the famous temples of Kerala (maybe in other prominent temples too) non-Hindus are not allowed into temples.

Perhaps the Navaratri Mandapam is seen as a temple of sorts?

Let's hope things change for the better. All those who visit temples may not want to change their religion only to be able to enter temples. But anyway there is no single process of converting to Hinduism. Anyone who thinks he/she is a Hindu, is a Hindu, right? But temple authorities and guards usually tend to be wary of tourists (specially all those who dont look like Indians). So I'm not sure how successful Nick is going to be if he wants to be in the Navaratri Mandapam.

thenpaanan
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Post by thenpaanan »

srkris wrote:So I'm not sure how successful Nick is going to be if he wants to be in the Navaratri Mandapam.
Can't never tell.

My friend who is Maharashtrian Hindu but sports a flowing beard visited the Guruvayoor temple (I think) with his white American wife who was wearing a sari and a bindi that day. Predictably they were stopped at the entrance even though my friend had removed his shirt and to their astonishment my friend's wife was allowed to go in (but not my friend). Inspite of his protestations, whoever was manning the entry simply would not believe that my friend was a Hindu. In pique, my friend asked how come his wife gets to go in and the person says "clearly she is a Kashmiri Hindu".

Our Nick may have a chance after all, it all depends on who he is compared to. :-)

That said, my personal opinion is that all temples of all beliefs should allow all people of all colours, genders, persuasions and cycles. The Lord accepts all, who are we to interfere or intercede?

-thenpaanan

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

srkris wrote:But anyway there is no single process of converting to Hinduism. Anyone who thinks he/she is a Hindu, is a Hindu, right? .
The Arya Samaj does covert willing people from other religions to Hinduism.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

thenpaanan wrote:In pique, my friend asked how come his wife gets to go in and the person says "clearly she is a Kashmiri Hindu".
Haha.

DRS, I know the Arya Samaj does that, but it is a very new practice, not older than the 19th century or even perhaps the 20th.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

During the shooting of Meera, the American director, Duggan entered temples posing as a kashmIri pandit - he was asked by the others not to talk and give himself away...or something like that...the story was a was part of the sangeetham archives. So, Nick, you too can try.
Ravi

ninjathegreat
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Post by ninjathegreat »

I don't think there is any concept of converting back to hinduism... It's a way of life, who you worship is your prerogative... If you follows the ideals set out in the shastras, then you are a hindu, by conventional definition... You don't cease to be a hindu because you convert to a different religion...

At least that's how I interpret it... :)

arasi
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Post by arasi »

Is there any other religion on earth which lends itself to all the countless interpretations that hinduism yields and is subject to? Coming to CM and to the discussions on the forum--yesterday?--it seemed as though there was going to be a schism ;) in the rendering of MD's kritis! That's the problem of being as ancient as we are...

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

Well, apparently there is a great fuss going on in UK and echoed in USA because a guy who continues to be a priest in the Anglican Christian Church has taken to practicing Hindu devotion and ritual as well! As it happens, he is living in Trivandrum.

As you may expect, I have some feelings on the exclusion topic, particularly as, were I in London, I would be participating and playing music ---and being made welcome--- at several temples during Navaratri there.

It seems ironic that such an ancient religion still judges in such a shallow way: both my wife and a previous girlfriend are Indian or Indian origin: they would be allowed into temples without a second glance: and yet they are both Christian.

So far as the Trivandrum Navaratri Mandapam is cioncerned (and yes, srkris, according to the literature the building "becomes a temple" for the duration") --- I have two friends in and am known to the organising famiy: I would prefer not to put friendship on the line for the sake of my stubbornness. I will quietly stay away, and probably attend the January festival there, as we did last year.

I do understand that people do not wish their place of worship to become just another tourist site (although many of the word's great churches don't have a problem with this...) and I have to say that when I have attended small or village temples here in India that I have been made welcome.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Nick, you hit the nail on the head. It's not the religion that prevents you though, it is the people who run the temples. The religion says nothing about anyone entering temples, AFAIK.

And usually those who do prevent are some of the biggest temples.

sangeetarasikan
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Post by sangeetarasikan »

If clubs and 5-star hotels can discriminate and decide who can come and who cannot, I don't see why a place that observes strict ritualistic principles should not have its own rules. If a Church or a Mosque or a Jewish Temple had similar rules, we Hindus would not even think of questioning our rights to enter there. A few years ago, I was in Malayasia with my family. We went to this famous mosque there (I forget the name). Although they allow tourists, they have strict rules about how one must be attired to enter the place. My wife and mother had to take of their pottus and cover their heads! There were also separate rooms and prayer halls for men and women. Everybody observed these rules without question.

There are very few temples in India or elsewhere in the world that have any rules about who can go and who cannot. Kerala seems to be the only place where some of India's traditions are being maintained. Although I am not a blind supporter of everything old and traditional, and am definitely NOT in favour of any kind of discrimination, I feel there is a certain charm to rituals when one is thorough about it. Maybe Nick can still hear the Navaratri Mantapam concerts without actually being inside the concert hall. Afterall even Hindu women face a different set of rules at these very same places!

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

Discrimination by one group excuses discrimination by another?

Have you ever been excluded from a hotel or a club on the basis of the colour of your skin? I don't think you would be excusing such action if you had...

I'm sure you would "think of questioning" that.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Nick, I suggest you question them (the organizers) about this, if you are planning to attend. Someone has to ask. Let them give their views, instead of us hypothesizing about it.

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

Actually, I am not planning to attend! Maybe one day, but not this time.

And I'm sorry that I sidetracked the thread onto the general temple admitance issue.

sangeetarasikan
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Post by sangeetarasikan »

Nick, I started my post by saying that clubs and 5-star hotels do discriminate. The doorman at Bombay Taj gave me and my friends the dirty once-over when after a long tiring day at the Elephanta caves, we decided to go there for some refreshments in our disheveled state! This is an Indian discriminating against other Indians on the basis of our appearance and not even our affordability, in this particular instance! And this is not all. We Indians encounter dicrimination in various forms everywhere around the world because of our skin colour or something equally silly. We just don't talk about it, but try to prove our worth in ways that matter.

I DID also say that I am personally NOT in favour of any kind of discrimination, but then the sad reality is that I am not calling the shots! The Americans who are the first to cry out about 'violation of human rights' in other countries are one of the worst when it comes to discrimination of all sorts.

All I am saying is India doesn't have to go the Western way in everything. Just because Churches allow tourists, we don't have to. We know about all the other not-so-nice things that the Church does (conversion etc), and thankfully Hindus haven't started emulating these examples! We sometimes have to fight our inner battles (entry for women into the mantapam) before we can think of other things (entry for tourists). These things take time. I don't think you should feel so bitter about it. Afterall, you do have a lot of company in this case! ;)

I too apologise for the digression.

ninjathegreat
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Post by ninjathegreat »

It is interesting in a way, the taboo is not just extended by "Hindus" in India. I was in Bali recently, and they let tourists on the temple grounds, but never in the sannidhi, unless you want to pray. Even then, the inner sanctum sactorum is reserved for "Balinese only". Their Biggest temple comples, Bekaseh, has an area which the guide said was for worshippers only. When I put it to him that I was Hindu, and wanted to worship, he laughed and shook his head; saying he has to get the "brahmin's consent". I told I was a brahmin, he switched to "balinese only"!!!!!!!

I found the incident at the sametime both disturbing and humerous... But I can certainly see a relation to where the restrictions originate from...

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »



arasi
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Post by arasi »

Radhakrishnan,
Thank you for the Hindu article. I am happy and proud that Parasalai Ponnammal opens a new chapter in the history of the Navaratri Mandapam Concerts.
I was unaware of the kamban connection! Wonder whether anyone has sung verses from kamba ramayanam there to celebrate that wonderful moment of gift giving. TNS might have! Do they sing songs on saraswathi too?

Radhakrishnan
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Post by Radhakrishnan »

Yes,it has Kambar connection, you can get more details at
http://swathithirunal.in/rlinsti/navarathriconcerts.htm
regarding the songs,they sing only SwAthi compositions and he has set 9 songs to be sung as main piece, with tAnam(with mridangam accompanying tAnam)for each day,starting with Devi JagaJanani in SankarAbharanam
Last edited by Radhakrishnan on 22 Sep 2006, 07:57, edited 1 time in total.

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

Radhakrishnan ,nice url. Can you throw some light on the below statement??
Preceeding the main concert, there is a 30 minute Thodaya mangalam recital by the traditional Mullamoodu Bhagavathars even today?

Radhakrishnan
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Post by Radhakrishnan »


ninjathegreat
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Post by ninjathegreat »

Radhakrishnan, nice article.. I've always enjoyed the Sunday Hindu supplements...

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