Hamsadhwani

Rāga related discussions
vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

I talked to my linguistic colleague about the official terminology for 'v' and 'w'. The IPA web site has the classifications ( language independent ): http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/images/pulmonic.gif ( click on it to magnify ).

As you can see, V is classified as 'fricative labiodental'. LabioDental means that the teeth and the lips come together. Fricative has to do with friction in making the sound...I am lost beyond that point. So, the 'v' phoneme ( and not necessarily the letter 'v' ) has to be produced with the upper teeth touching the lower lip.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

VK - I tried it and it sounds like the Bengali version.

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

sbala, at the risk of sounding like a linguist ;), you probably produced a Bilabial Plosive sound :) That is how Bengalis would say it. Bilabial refers to two lips touching each other and then the sound comes suddenly ( plosive ).

OTOH, 'v' is labiodental, meaning bite ( dental ) just the lower lip ( labio ), the two lips do not touch each other ( otherwise it will be a bi-labial sound ).

sbala
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Post by sbala »

VK - Got the science but my execution is flawed! Need to unlearn the bengali version first.

humdinger
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Post by humdinger »

thanjavur...great work....thanks a lot.

paddu
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Post by paddu »

Thanjavur, thanks a lot for sharing. Great work.

Thanks
Paddu

humdinger
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006, 12:14

Post by humdinger »

I am told sri ramaswamy dIkshitar who conceived hamsadhwani has composed a song "chasndasEyaLa..." as a lakshaNa gIta for this raagam. has anyone heard this? any recordings available?

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

vasanthakokilam wrote:As you can see, V is classified as 'fricative labiodental'. LabioDental means that the teeth and the lips come together.
pANini's ashTAdhyAyi (or one of it's interpretation)also prescribes "vakArsya dantOShTam" (labiodental) while describing how each varNa is to be pronounced.

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth
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Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

Post by drshrikaanth »

humdinger wrote:I am told sri ramaswamy dIkshitar who conceived hamsadhwani has composed a song "chasndasEyaLa..." as a lakshaNa gIta for this raagam. has anyone heard this? any recordings available?
candasEyaLa is a prabandha by RD, not a lakShaNa gIte. It is notated in the SSP. Although RD is popularly credited to have created the hamsadhwani rAga, it is notable that mudduvEnkaTamakhi gives a lakShaNa SlOka describing the rAga. So it is likely that RD gave life to the rAga rather than conceived it.

But in the SSP, subbrAma dIkShitar says RD conceived it and does not give the one liner of muddu vEnkaTamakhi describing the rAga.

humdinger
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Post by humdinger »

DRS...thanks a lot for the info. i am interested in knowing that sloka. can you please share it if you have it handy.

Also, how are prabandha's different from the kritis...how are they sung? any renderings available by musicians of today...?

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

auDavO madhavarjyatvAd hamsadhvanirihEShyatE | (109, rAgalakShaNam)

humdinger
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Post by humdinger »

'madhavarjyatvAd' should be meaning " ma and dha are varjya". right?

thanks DRS for sharing this. perhaps the simplest way of defining any raga...venkaTamakhi sounds so taciturn :)

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

yes- thats how sUtras/lakShaNa SlOkas ought to be- convey as much in as few words as possible. Take this one-liner on hamsadhwani itself- auDava with madhyama and dhaivata eschewed. That not only conveys that the rAga has only 5 notes and which notes are omitted, but also, as it does not mention vakratva, means the ArOhaNa and avarOhaNa are straight. Note here that as the varjya swaras are not mentioned specifically for either ascent or descent, it is to be taken that the varjyatva applies for both :) Also, nO bhAShAngatva is mentioned. A lot can be learnt form what is not mentioned in these SlOkas as much as (or more) from what is mentioned- reading between the lines :D

humdinger
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Post by humdinger »

nice explanation there DRS.
so things should be conspicuous by absence :)
i am all praise for these people who wrote such beauties.

vasya10
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Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 22:32

Post by vasya10 »

here is a pAnini samskrita lecdem that I found on googling, at around 5th minute is the w vs v.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6822263241+

drs: thx for explanation of the Sloka. just like i guess most of pAnini's sutra is reading between lines (or should I say reading between 'letters').

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

drshrikaanth wrote:
humdinger wrote:I am told sri ramaswamy dIkshitar who conceived hamsadhwani has composed a song "chasndasEyaLa..." as a lakshaNa gIta for this raagam. has anyone heard this? any recordings available?
candasEyaLa is a prabandha by RD, not a lakShaNa gIte. It is notated in the SSP. Although RD is popularly credited to have created the hamsadhwani rAga, it is notable that mudduvEnkaTamakhi gives a lakShaNa SlOka describing the rAga. So it is likely that RD gave life to the rAga rather than conceived it.
This has happened more than once :) For eg, some sources say that MD created amRtavarShiNi; But that rAga is defined in MV's Ragalakshana. There may be other instances too.

-Ramakriya

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

vasya10 wrote:here is a pAnini samskrita lecdem that I found on googling, at around 5th minute is the w vs v.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6822263241+

drs: thx for explanation of the Sloka. just like i guess most of pAnini's sutra is reading between lines (or should I say reading between 'letters').
vasya10

Thank you for this nice link!

-Ramakriya

jayaram
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Post by jayaram »

here is a pAnini samskrita lecdem that I found on googling, at around 5th minute is the w vs v.
Key is to note that we need to use the appropriate v or w depending on the target sound in Sanskrit. So write 'dhwani' because there's more of an 'oo' sound that is present in the Sanskrit word, while write 'veena' because this time it's closer to the v sound. Sticking to a single way of writing (either or v or w) can result in incorrect representations.

knandago2001
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Post by knandago2001 »

Raga Shankara is a close ally of Hamsadhwani and sung fairly extensively in Hindustani classical music. Here are the links to a tarana sung by the late Roshan Ara Begum who was a disciple of Ustad Abdul Karim Khan.
http://www.badongo.com/file/2483524

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

What an enthusiastic teacher she is!! Wonderful.. this has created some interest in me to get into Sanskrit some more.

coimbatorerasigan
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Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 23:29

Post by coimbatorerasigan »

Has this raga been explored in detail? A renedition would be welcome...

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

Three renderings that have shaped my image of Shankara
http://www.badongo.com/file/2487368

KL Saigal singing Rhum Jhum to stop a marauding Elephant in its tracks.
Two rare concert clips by Kishori and Gangubai Hangal-Both unfinished at the end - but still manage to be explosive.

Krishna Hangal is particularly in great touch , while accompanying her mother.

Detailed explorations ?? Yes Bhimsen Joshi has sung it for a commercial album for over an hour.
Krishna Kalle too sang a sizzling cabaret number "Ondondagee Jaridare" based on this melody.The orchestration for this song is a delight.

vasya10
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Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 22:32

Post by vasya10 »

vasanthakokilam:

checkout www.speaksanskrit.org

also check out www.samskrita-bharati.org and see if you have a local (US) chapter.

here is some information about the samskrita teacher:

"About Sadhvi Vrnda Chaitanya: Sadhvi Chaitanya, currently Resident Director and Acharya of Arsha Vijnana Mandiram near Valdosta, Georgia is a former Professor at the University of California, Berkley and has taught at several US universities including San Francisco, Oberlin , Oregon and Valdosta. She is a prolific speaker who has given lectures and seminars at many prestigious events in US and abroad, including at the Vatican Inter Faith meeting last June."

I got this via email as im a subscriber of speaksanskrit.org forum. There is supposed to be another webinar this week, if i get that will post that link too.

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks very much vasya10

mahesh33
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Post by mahesh33 »

More Hamsadhvani please........:)!

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

mahesh33
you mean -even after thanjavur's links ??

mahesh33
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006, 06:20

Post by mahesh33 »

yes saar :)!

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

Parashakthi Janani by TRS

http://www.badongo.com/file/2489433

annapoorne
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Post by annapoorne »

Mr Coolkarni

K L Saigal"s Rhumjum rhumjum...........mein bali jaye

What about the song "Ja tose more" from the film Parivar?
Sung by Lata it is very much like our Vathapi.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

Rhumjuma rhumjuma chala tihari

THAT IS SANKARA

The parivar song.You are right about Hamsadhwani.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

http://www.badongo.com/file/2490107

PIRAI_ANIYUM-HAMSADHWANI by TRS

mahesh33
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Post by mahesh33 »

Kji, thanks! that was a good one :)

thanjavur

Post by thanjavur »

NADA ANUBOOTHI
http://home.sprynet.com/~dsivakumar/music/intromus.htm

Music Categories > Carnatic - Vocal > Ragas H... > Hamsadhwani
has the following tracks,

Gam Ganapathi(HMB) by DKJ
Ganapathe by KJY
Karunai seivai (Papanasam Sivan) by TVS
Mooladara Murthi (Papanasam Sivan) by R & J
Namami Vigna (Krishnaswami Iyer) by MLV
Parvati pathim (Dikshitar) by DKJ
Raghunayaka (Thyagarajar) by Sowmya
Sri Raghukula (Thyagarajar) by TNS, Sowmya, TVS
Thayaghi Thandhayaghi (Ramlinga Swami) by MLV
Ullam Irangi (Papanasam Sivan) by OST
Vandeham (Annamacharya) by Hyd. Bro.
Varavallbha ramana (GNB) by MLV
Vatapi Ganapathim (Dikshitar) by Chembai,GNB,KJY,MDR,MLV,MMI,MSM,SSI

Music Categories > Carnatic - Instrumental > Ragas H... > Hamsadhwani
has the following tracks,

Gaja vadana (Purandaradasar) by US
Gam Ganapathi (HMB) by US
Mooladara Murthi (Papanasam Sivan) by US
Raghunayaka (Thyagarajar) by MSG
Thayaghi Thandhayaghi (Ramlinga Swami) by Kanyakumari
Vandeham (Annamacharya) by LGJ
Varana mukha (Koteeswara Iyer) by US
Vinayaka Vigna (Veenai Kuppier) by THV
______________________________________________________________________________

thanjavur

Post by thanjavur »

KarNATaka sangItam http://surasa.net/ (Hamsadhwani) links

Dinakara vamsa (K M Saundaryavalli)
by KMS (Contribution - K N Sundaram)
http://surasa.net/cgi-bin/plist.cgi?kms ... nakara.mp3

by Susarla Sivaram (Contribution - K N Sundaram)
http://surasa.net/cgi-bin/plist.cgi?siv ... nakara.mp3

Pagavari (Patnam Subramania Iyer)
by DKP (Contribution - S Hariharan)
http://surasa.net/cgi-bin/plist.cgi?dkp ... gavari.mp3

Vatapi (Dikshitar)
by Dwaram
http://surasa.net/cgi-bin/plist.cgi?dva ... vatapi.mp3

by ESS (Contribution - Syamala Rao Eevani)
http://surasa.net/cgi-bin/plist.cgi?ema ... vatapi.mp3

by NR (Contribution - S Hariharan)
http://surasa.net/cgi-bin/btdload.cgi?f ... vatapi.mp3

by SSI
http://surasa.net/cgi-bin/plist.cgi?ssi ... /vatapi.rm
______________________________________________________________________________

divakar
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Joined: 26 May 2005, 06:06

Post by divakar »

just out of curiosity..

(i) are there some ragams in which RTPs are not done/ not allowed as a rule ?
(ii) has anyone rendered an RTP in hamsadhwani ?

we have RTPs in ragams having five swarams.
can someone through light on this aspect.
thank you
Last edited by divakar on 27 Mar 2007, 13:12, edited 1 time in total.

pgaiyar
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Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 07:59

Post by pgaiyar »

Dear All:

Anyone has a RTP in Hamsadhwani?. If yes please upload. God bless you all with health and happiness.

Regards

P. G. Aiyar

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »


coimbatorerasigan
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Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 23:29

Post by coimbatorerasigan »

http://www.badongo.com/file/2627668

RTP-Hamsadhwani-Balamurali Krishna!

rganesh
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Joined: 06 Jan 2007, 23:56

Post by rganesh »

What is the name of the raga in Ragamalika swaras (starting at 25:58) in BMK's Hamsadhwani RTP?

vijayagopal
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007, 13:53

Post by vijayagopal »

I remeber listening this song Nera mora from a recording of Smt. Rama ravi.
Kindly give me some time.
I perhaps can give the text and the recording too.
One is sure to find it in Brinda amma's collection.
Kindly check!
Last edited by vijayagopal on 03 Apr 2007, 14:35, edited 1 time in total.

ramakriya
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 02:05

Post by ramakriya »

rganesh wrote:What is the name of the raga in Ragamalika swaras (starting at 25:58) in BMK's Hamsadhwani RTP?
It is kOsala

-Ramakriya

srinidhi
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Post by srinidhi »


drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

rganesh wrote:What is the name of the raga in Ragamalika swaras (starting at 25:58) in BMK's Hamsadhwani RTP?
Yes it is the 71st sampUrNa mELa- kOsala

SR3G3M2PD2N3S* | S*NDPMGRS ||

Shahana occurs before this. And it is back to hamsadhvani after kOsala.

sankirnam
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Post by sankirnam »

The Rudrapatnam brothers sang an RTP in Hamsadwani at the Music Academy last December, with the words "Lambodara Lakumikara, Ambasutha Amaravinutha", just like TNS's RTP in Malahari.. in fact TNS was sitting in the first row during that concert!

rganesh
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Post by rganesh »

Thanks Ramakriya & DRS

vageyakara
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Post by vageyakara »

Dear members , It would be only appropriate to put forth my request to view my composition in Hamsadwani -on Lord ganesha as well as Hamsadwani Sabha rasikas. this one was composed in compliance with the request of the Great TRS, who presented this kriti at the Hamsadwani Sabha .And response by the respected rasikas was overwhelming .This kriti is posted in www.karnatik.com
Ramaraj
Last edited by vageyakara on 06 Apr 2007, 14:36, edited 1 time in total.

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

vageyakara wrote:Dear members , It would be only appropriate to put forth my request to view my composition in Hamsadwani -on Lord ganesha as well as Hamsadwani Sabha rasikas. this one was composed in compliance with the request of the Great TRS, who presented this kriti at the Hamsadwani Sabha .And response by the respected rasikas was overwhelming .This kriti is posted in www.karnatik.com
Ramaraj
This URL will take you to the clip in question and a rendition by the composer himself! A very lovely compsition - very clever use of the words 'rasika ranjanA'...
Sri Ramraj, would you call the language just telugu, or a sort of maNipravALa(m) with sanskrit and telugu mixed?


http://www.karnatik.com/c3502.shtml

vageyakara
Posts: 602
Joined: 01 Dec 2006, 20:24

Post by vageyakara »

Ravi Shankarji Namaskaram,though it is a kriti in telugu.sanskriti padams are adopted for the simple reason of adding colour to the saahityam as is evident in thousands of other telegu kritis of and also tamil krities.The great Papanaasivan has included sanskrit words to several kritis .In the above kriti Telegu padams start emerging from caranam lines .Thank u for ur views.
Ramaraj

kalgada78
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Joined: 19 Jun 2005, 22:01

Post by kalgada78 »

Sri Ramaraj,
That was a very nice rendition!!.
Thanks to shankar for the link!

Sarma.

vageyakara
Posts: 602
Joined: 01 Dec 2006, 20:24

Post by vageyakara »

Hallo friends ,
My contribution in this Ragam "HAMSADWANI RASIKA RANJANA' in glorifying Lord Ganesha and portraying HIS grace in general and
HIS pervasive impact on the rasikas' of HAMSADWANI MUSIC SABHA- Chennai. This was performed by none other than the great
TRS . The kriti was composed in compliance with his request and within a day before the actual concert.He virtually enthralled the audience with his deft handling the kriti
Ramaraj Ref ; www.karnatik.com/c3502.shtml
Last edited by vageyakara on 23 Apr 2007, 07:33, edited 1 time in total.

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