what is the ragam?

Rāga related discussions
Post Reply
RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

மாயச்சகடம் உதைத்து மருது இருத்து
ஆயர்களோடு போய் ஆநிரை காத்து
வேயில் குழல் ஊதி வித்தகனாய் நின்ற
ஆயர்கள் ஏற்றினை பாடிப்பற !
ஆநிரை மேய்த்தானை பாடிப்பற!
-------------------------------------------------
mudiyindr moovulakngalum....( third stanza)

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

what is the ragam?-2

Post by RSR »

நீலக் கடலினைப்போல் என்நெஞ்சம்
நிமிர்ந்து பொங்கிடவும்
(second stanza in maalaippozhuthinilae)

Rsachi
Posts: 5039
Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by Rsachi »

If this s the track, then I think it is
First -Jinjhuti=Senjurutti
second - Behag
Third - Sindhu Bhairavi
Fourth- Mohana
Fifth- Mayamalavagowla

http://gaana.com/song/malai-pozhuthinile-1

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by MaheshS »

RSR wrote:நீலக் கடலினைப்போல் என்நெஞ்சம்
நிமிர்ந்து பொங்கிடவும்
(second stanza in maalaippozhuthinilae)
Suuggestion, can you not post different stanzas in different threads please? Just post them one after another in the same thread. Will be coherent and in one place. Thanks.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by rshankar »

Same request as with the previous thread - please avoid posting in tamizh script

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by RSR »

RSachi... Thanks

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by vasanthakokilam »

RSR, while posting in general forums where people may not know to read Tamil, please provide transliteration into English as well.

Use tools like Arun's transliteration tool. it is very easy to use: http://arunk.freepgs.com/cmtranslit/editor.php
Here is the output from Arun's tool for the above passage

mAyaccagaDam udaittu marudu iruttu
AyargaLODu pOy Anirai kAttu
vEyil kuzhal Udi vittaganAy ninRa
AyargaL ETRinai pADippaRa !
Anirai mEyttAnai pADippaRa!

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Use tools like http://arunk.freepgs.com/cmtranslit/editor.php and post the transliterated text when using the Tamil script in general sections.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by RSR »

I wish to bring to those who advise that tamil script should not be used here, 1) why not? the query is about a thamizh song. 2) Much more 'very serious' problem/defect in thamizh-english transliteration schemes ( all the official schemes...I have referred to wiki ). are DEFECTIVE. The schemes work well for all the major Indian languages, like ( Malayalam, Kannadam,Telugu, Marathi, Gujarathi, Hindi, Bengali etc) because all of them follow Sanskritic 4 sounds alphabet. ( like pa, pha, ba, bha). but Thamizh is different. Any Thamizh lyric written in official transliteration scheme is simply murdering the language. ... (ex) Theeraadha Vil(?)aiyaattup pillai (?)..it is simply unbearable to write teeraadha instead of theeraadha or even tirada .... How will a person who does not know thamizh read it?
rasikas.org should work for creating a standard transliteration scheme for Tjamizh-English instead of slavishly following Harvard dictates. Thamizh has some special sounds not found in other Indian languages. (ex) three 'na'. 'gnya' as in gnyanam ( people write gyanam and get away with it. ).

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by rshankar »

Let's just start with the first question: why not?
Because it's rude. Not everyone can read tamizh script. It makes it exclusionary. While there are issues with the current transliteration scheme, it's the best we have. If a better scheme comes along, I'm sure we'll use it. In the meantime, most of us have day jobs that definitely come in the way of developing a new scheme.

Meanwhile, there is a separate thread with posts in tamizh. Feel free to post there - you may not get many people responding to your questions.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by vasanthakokilam »

RSR, All the issues you bring up have been sufficiently discussed and debated in this forum. Arun developed his transliteration scheme with extensive participation by members here.

That said, there is no prohibition against posting in Tamil in the general sections, but if you do it is highly recommended that you provide the transliteration. I agree that reading the transliteration is not that user friendly compared to reading in the native script but look at it from the point of view of members who can not read that script. You can get a taste for how bad that is when you are confronted with a paragraph of text in a sript you can not read but you are very much interested in that song or topic. Native script plus Transliteration is the best option we have.

You will see many other members providing transliteration even for a tamil word, phrase or a sentence used in their posts let alone for whole paragraphs of text in Tamil. That is the model to follow.

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by arasi »

And, what a long way we have come! Some kind souls, who aren't even into translations and transliterations are using it, bless them! When done with a bit of care, though it may not fully conform to our (still-to be perfected) standard, most of us are able to recognize the words in a song.

Another thing--the more we practice--reading and writing transliteration, the faster we are at it. Also, it helps those who are not familiar with tamizh, but all the same like to know the exact lyrics.And, even for those who speak tamizh, some words in songs are difficult to comprehend at times.

Sol teriya vENDum, adan poruLum kUDa (one should get the word, and it's meaning too), to sing the songs with feeling...

See, even when the tamizh script isn't used, we all can read and understand what's said above :)

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by RSR »

Sol teriya vENDum, adan poruLum kUDa (one should get the word, and it's meaning too), to sing the songs with feeling...
சொல் டெரிய வேண்டும் அன் பொருளும் கூட . If this is thamizh, ?

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by rshankar »

RSR wrote:Sol teriya vENDum, adan poruLum kUDa (one should get the word, and it's meaning too), to sing the songs with feeling...
சொல் டெரிய வேண்டும் அன் பொருளும் கூட . If this is thamizh, ?
If you use this transliterator, here is what you will get:
சொல் தெரிய வேண்டும், அதன் பொருளும் கூட

(the only change I made was to replace the 's' from sol with a 'c' - col)


RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

let me try in my own method..
maayach chakadam uthaitthu ,maruthu irutthu
aayarkalodu poay aanirai kaatthu,
vaeyil kuzhal oothi, vitthakanaay nindra
aayarkal aetrinaip paadip para,
aanirai maeytthaanaip paadip para
except for vallina rakaram , it is easier. But the transliteration given by you is not acceptable thamizh.
1) udaitthu (break) 2) iruttu ( darkness) 3) kaatu (show) 4) udi ( discord) 5) there is no word as vittagan 6) the n in aetrinai is different from aanirai ( three different n's ) n, nn, nnn perhaps?) . Be open to critical suggestions please. No offence meant. No one who cannot recognize thamizh letters would even attempt to reply. https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... lakangalum

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by RSR »

Sri.VenkataKailasam.... I am the creator of the site mentioned by you. ! Thank you.

Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4164
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

Mod:
This may be shifted to "Raga & Alapana".

Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4164
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

Mod:
This may be moved to "Raga & Alapana".

srkris
Site Admin
Posts: 3497
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 03:34

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by srkris »

RSR: Please can you create your topics in the appropriate forums and name them properly?

"What is the ragam" is not a descriptive enough title for any thread.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by RSR »

ragam and alapana is a thread different in purpose, from simple request for info about ragam, especially in ragamalikas. ..see how even 'vetrans' like arasi are floundering in this area and how my request for identification ( believe me..i am not testing anybody's knowledge but craving for correct info) of the 17 odd songs of MS in Hindi Meera , has gone unanswered . .My advice is that rasikas create a special thread on with heading 'what is the ragam?'

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by vasanthakokilam »

RSR, Floundering? Your point is good and I was giving your feedback some consideration but you are not making it easy for me. Please stop disparaging other members.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by RSR »

no disparagement ..meant.. Pointing out errors is not disparagement. The person concerned has admitted. my posts have generously and profusely and sincerely given appreciation for good posts.

shri4tunes
Posts: 3
Joined: 18 Oct 2016, 23:42

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by shri4tunes »

Could you please tell me what ragas are used in the narayaneeyam teertha kriti - Nanda nandana gopala sung by KS Chithra? Especially of the stanzaa" Nanda sunandadi "

Thanks
Shridhar

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

what is the ragam of 'engum nirai naadhabrammam' by MS in Sakunthalai film?

Post by RSR »

what is the ragam of 'engum nirai naadhabrammam' by MS in Sakunthalai film?

If already answered, kindly give link.

mp3 file here for reference , if needed

https://sites.google.com/site/rsrtrials/home/engumnirai

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: what is the ragam of 'engum nirai naadhabrammam' by MS in Sakunthalai film?

Post by vasanthakokilam »

I just listened to the song. I do not have an answer for you. There are some flashes of what sounds like Kuntalavarali but that did not continue.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam of 'engum nirai naadhabrammam' by MS in Sakunthalai film?

Post by RSR »

thank you for your precious time. No urgency. Hoping that it catches the attention of Sri.Lakshman. I remember that he had posted as reply to an earlier query on the same by someone else that he would send by mail

Rsachi
Posts: 5039
Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: what is the ragam of 'engum nirai naadhabrammam' by MS in Sakunthalai film?

Post by Rsachi »

VKM, RSR,
It sounds like Senjurutti to me. We are a bit thrown off by the jalatarang and sax/trumpet. But key prayogas of Senjurutti are there in her singing.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam of 'engum nirai naadhabrammam' by MS in Sakunthalai film?

Post by RSR »

Rsachi..-> I agree. but it has some differences with many other renderings of MS of her favourite raga Chenchurutti. like the first stanza of 'Maalaip pozhuthinilae' , 'Mannum Imayamalai', 'Enathu Ullamae ( tamil meera), 'Chenthamizhnaadenbum pothinilae', 'Kaliyugadali', 'Vaasudeva Kamalaasana Vandhitha', ' etc. perhaps it is a rare raga very similar to Chenchurutti? Lakshmanji may have a different answer. perhaps

srkris
Site Admin
Posts: 3497
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 03:34

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by srkris »

RSR,

Let us not reinvent the wheel for you. There are hundreds of people who all use the forum and need to use it, people who speak different languages (including non-Indian languages). This forum however runs on English. Therefore we need to use a script that most people are comfortable with.

We have chosen to use the roman script. For transcribing Indian language texts into Roman, you may use this scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15919 (which is commonly used for roman transliteration of most Indian languages), or else follow whichever method of transliteration you choose.

Atleast the heading must be in English in Roman script.

Within the thread, you may use Tamil texts or any other language text you want to use, but again not everyone can read Tamil or Kannada or Telugu so you will get a limited response.

Please do not create several threads asking the same question at the same time. If you want the meanings of 10 songs, raise one thread asking for all of them rather than raising 10 separate threads.

Do not raise your queries about how to use the forum wherever you want. Either raise them in the 'Forum Use and Development' section or email admin @ rasikas.org

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

srkris-> i think, your post ignores many changes in the meantime. Some of my suggestions have been accepted and in some aspects I have corrected my methods born more out of lack of of awareness of the purpose and 'composition' of forum members. than anything else. (I am surprised that there seem to be no native-speaking bengalis, marathis, gujarathis , punjabis and hindusthani folks here....I need their help for the task that I have undertaken) . I am sorry that I cannot use any of the official transliteration tools as I am not happy with any of them. Hereafter I will just give link to the audio in mp3 ( the links will be just scratch links -temporary.. for certain reasons. ( copyright) . and request transliteration from forum members, along with the original and translation . I do not need to post any thamizh songs here as my purpose is to bring rare lyrics in other languages rendered by MS Amma to thamizh readers and not vice versa. I am giving a number of suggestions in forum development section, one by one. . Thanks

rajeshnat
Posts: 9906
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: what is the ragam?-2

Post by rajeshnat »

srkris wrote: Please do not create several threads asking the same question at the same time. If you want the meanings of 10 songs, raise one thread asking for all of them rather than raising 10 separate threads.
RSR,
Apart from whatever srkris told , if you have raised one post for one song , give some time for atleast few days for people to respond . Then after few days post the next post asking for the next song. Spacing is key that way your chances to get the response is maximum.MS Amma repertoire is phenomenal and you need other rasikas to have more time to collate their thoughts to reply .

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

The instructions are confusing. . let me clarify my very limited objective in using this forum. 1) I am in the process of creating a website for the songs of MS from her earliest recordings to say, upto 1956. These include her songs in famous musical films a) Sevasadhanam (1938) (b) Sakunthalai( 1940 (c) Savithri (1941) (d) Meera -Thmizh(1945) and e) Meera -Hindi(1947)... and nearly 50 non-film 78 rpm records . ( i refer to them for convenience as vintage classics).
...Besides that a few songs not more than a dozen given in the period 1955-1965).. I have all those songs. and know the ragams of most of the songs too. except about 10 or 15. As these are all very old songs, I seek the help of veterans in this forum for such songs only..... 2) Most of the songs are in Thamizh and so I myself can give the lyrics. but a few songs are in Telugu, Kannada, Hindi. I felt that this forum dedicated to Carnatic music lovers will be able to help with the lyrics. and preferably with translation. To me , translation is more important.
May I add that mine is a very unique attempt? Some of the records are available , only in my collection. No amount of searching can be got from elsewhere . (except mukundan who offers streaming). Typical example is 'Mannum Imayamalai' by Barathi. and the original Bankim's Vandhe Matharam and DKROY 'dhano dhanya '. . am told was given as record in 1940. The fact is that even Saregama may not have it!
Hindi meea film and its songs have gone out of circulation. I dont think these glorious songs can be simply brushed aside as 'film songs'. Nor the nearly 50 old vintage 78 rpm records. I hold that it was these which made MS a household name, deservedly. I want to share. Niveditha Ramakrishnanan has done a wonderful job in painstakingly video-cutting the song clips from her rare tape and posting to youtube. ( meera alaknanda2007)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From all this confusion , I think , I can just write directly to the admin. hereafter. He can then give whatever title for the query and put it in what he feels as appropriate section. or even reject
That said, my request for MS song-related info is almost over. Hereafter, I would need old D.K.Pattammal songs given as 78 rpm records. ( not lyrics, nor transliteration, not translation but just mp3 )
Best Regards.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by vasanthakokilam »

RSR, I understand what you are doing is a significant effort and I am sure your fellow members here will share whatever knowledge they have. Have patience and don't go off on the aggressive side or snarky against the very people you are trying to crowd source the info and who were just trying to inculcate you in the rules, idioms and habits of this forum. That is what it takes to live in online communities like this. You have now heard most of them and it looks like you are adapting to them. Very good. Your feedback has been acknowledged, welcomed and implemented to the extent we can at present. btw, srkris is the admin who implemented some of those suggestions.

And if you do not get a response to your query, it is not because people have the info and they are not willing to give it to you. That should be the last thing in your mind. As you wrote, some of these are not easy, if so you would not have asked for help here.

Having said all that, I myself am not sure where all your requests are. So I can not give you clear instructions. When I have some time, i will try to find them and see if any order needs to be given. Till then, keep up the hope that people will provide the help they can while they also get something out of your work. That is how it works.

Good luck.

kvchellappa
Posts: 3598
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by kvchellappa »

VK,
I am reminded of
उच्यमानोऽपि परुषं नोत्तरं प्रतिपद्यते ॥

Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4164
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

Yes, नित्यं मृदु !
(nityam mrdu)

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

..VK has couched in soft words. Granted. But the trouble is in creating appropriate sections.
Kindly have a look at 'Forum development' section for my post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I remember, my query for ragam information was was for 1) third stanza of Mudiyondri. I got no reply. but I was able to find it myself from memory. 2) the second query was about the third stanza of Dheyvath Thamizh Nattinilae . Rsachi gave the information readily without fuss. and correctly. Bless him. 3) This is only my third query about ragam. VK has suggested and sachi has also suggested. I can wait . No problem.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other queries have been with respect to translation of
a) Naanekae Badavanu - by MS - wonderful help from Rsachi. Thanks ( closed)
b) Yadhuvamsa Thilakanae by MS.. help from Rsachi...( am awaiting other inputs) yet to close
c) Maiyn Nirguniya Bajan by MS ( a rare gem) .. Great help by Rsachi
d) Nijada ( Lyrics and meaning.. ) Nicely done by Savithri madam. Thanks
e) Rama Milan ke Bajan by MS ( controversy with Mr.Bala regarding the lyrics.)
I repeat, the meaning is enough for me.. He found fault with the Devanagari Lyrics but has not given the correct version nor the meaning. yet.
Mr.Sachi can try. It is a very simple poem.

bala-> nithya yuddham? ... conveniently ignoring as yet unanswered posers?
chellappa-> was there any need for this?

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by arasi »

RSR,
Since you seem to ignore (in your own words) verse, let me resort to prose.

We are all different personalities here--not merely in age, but in many other aspects of our being. Now, the truth of it (not a lie) :) --is that Rasikas.org means a lot to us because we gather here and share what we know and experience in music (and in other interests too) in amity and enthusiasm.

P Bala is one of the fastest in bringing information on anything we ask for (but he's a poet!). He has done the same for you too.

Sachi is a very busy businessman who somehow finds time to oblige us with information and inspired thoughts, reviews, in such amity. He writes poetry too, beware! Varsha is our oldest (not in age) of dhAtAs here (he writes verses too). Lakshman (HanumAn) is swift in fetching anything and everything in lyrics for anyone on earth.

I could go on about others to your chagrin--'cheer leaders!' you commented. We have used the word MAS for a long time. Mutual Admiration Society--which simply means, we thrive in each other's strength.

That's why we don't make statements like : heard you are related to AS and am surprised in your making wrong guesses about the rAgAs! It's like saying, why are you not kamban vITTuk kaTTut taRi? :) Let alone poor me, even experts guess wrongly at times!

By the way, what you say about AS is not true. She wasn't famous for a fleeting time! Not a flash in the pan artiste. She had a much longer career(may be not famous) than you seem to know. No big deal, but I merely mention it to say that you can't make statements which aren't quite accurate at whim.

As for the icon herself (the subject of your blog), surprise again, that you dismiss her for all that she has given, by lauding her music strictly for a given period which happen to be your favorite years...

I do hope you take the above in the right spirit...

And time for me to adjourn to my desk to scribble more poetry...;)

kvchellappa
Posts: 3598
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by kvchellappa »

Sri RSR,
My namaskarams to you.
I leave it to rasikas to see the tone of your posts and that of VK.
As a matter of fact, hot-headed that I am, I liked the more appropriate response 'We cannot reinvent the wheel for you.'

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by arasi »

The credit for "Let us not reinvent the wheel for you" goes to our admin!

You call yourself hot headed?!

Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4164
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

RSR wrote: ... bala-> nithya yuddham? ...
As given in post #36, it is नित्यं मृदु 'nityam mrdu'.
The quote is from Valmiki Ramayana.
It means 'always soft' and it has been used to refer to 'vasanthakokilam'.
RSR wrote: ... conveniently ignoring as yet unanswered posers? ...
Conveniently ignoring? No; but sometimes I do ignore with contempt.

kvchellappa
Posts: 3598
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by kvchellappa »

"Unanswered posers"
Rasikas.org is a voluntary association of rasikas, not a legislature or court.
We do not get in here and seek to redefine its purpose and participation. I wonder whether such a privilege exists in any set-up.
Now, there is a query by the moderator himself about the influence of thevaram on Thyagaraja. One response has come, but no conclusive answer. Who can answer such questions that have very little documentation? Even on ragas, we see difference in understanding, possibly because film music may not be set to an exact raga.
'No one owes us anything' is the wisdom that dawns as we mature.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

bala-> 1)i know that you were referring to VK. and I concur. .. I was referring to your attitude. 2) .. the second answer confirms my complaint against you. .. You said that the devanagari lyrics supplied by '......' are 'hilarious'. May be there are errors. as the person just heard the song and tried to transliterate. and as already said, had cautioned that as he is not a native speaker of Hindi, it may have errors... No issues there. But , is it not your duty then to provide the correct version and translation as requested? Not immediately but at your convenience informing so.
3) You made comment about sanskrit words ( nouns) ending in 'm'. as parijaatham'. I had explained that while your point is also correct, mine also is correct. and had given scores of words used in the way I mentioned.by scholars in tamil country. and 'requested' you to correct me if I am wrong. .. which you did not . and picked a hole in my saying that Hindi folk do not use compound-consonants properly ( common people). and also gave an explanation. ( here is another example. 'dharma pathni'...very often spoken as 'dharam pathni' , 'prakash ' as 'parkash ' and so on.). . It is your prerogative to ignore inconvenient questions. but 'nevertheless...' . they do not deserve 'contempt'. . Rather , it is your comment that deserves 'contempt'. . Shall we agree not to exchange these 'pleasantries'? in future?

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

chellappa-> 1) I was saying the same thing! ...about Carnatic music after 1500 AD and classical music before that.
2) As for the song 'engum nirai' , ( from the musical extravaganza' Sakunthali. the music was by Thuraiyoor Rajagopala Sarma not a common person, and it can be easily seen that it is not a ragamalaika. but very much a classical-raga based song...Which" is a bit puzzling. but let us find out. .Let us not dismiss it as 'film' music. . After I get exact solution for that ragam,from other sources, I will share with you. ... May I request you to listen to all the songs rendered by Smt.MS and three or four by GNB in Sakunthali and point out any song that is not pure carnatic music? In fact a Kambothi Viruttham by GNB solo, lasting for just two minutes is considered to be one of the best expositions of the raga by very knowledgeable rasikas . . Regards.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

arasi-> I know about AS and like her music and her contributions. . I have not said a single word against her. .. just yesterday, I reflected on the difference between poets and music-composers. Even if the poets themselves had specified the ragam in which the song is to be sung, many musicians seek the help of music -composers and sing the song in that ragam. For instance, many of Barathi's songs . I think, the musicians are right. . The same with Yadhuvamsa Thilakane.. As for Annamacharaya keerhans, though the verses were from him, the music has been set by different people and especially for the keerthans rendered by MS . . It led me to the thought that poets are just poets and may not be either good music-composers or singers or experts in ragams. There could be exceptions. MS herself was a singer. not a composer...I think, we should clearly demarcate the respective regions... the lyrics, the music and then rendering. But to the best of my knowledge, Purandaradasa, the Trinity, Swathi Thirunaal, . were all poets and composers rolled into one. We have no liberty to change either their poetry or their music. . . Thanks

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

To 'Vasanthakokilam' Sir-> I think, the discussion can be seen by anyone without registering. I dont mind, as I have no 'reputation' to lose. but is it not advisable to restrict it to people who log in? .There are many antagonistic critics and should we expose the chinks to them?

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

chellappa Sir -> In continuation of my post at #44, here are the famous songs by MS in Sakunthalai...youtube links. No license problem because uploaded by saregama. .. https://sites.google.com/site/rsrtrials ... i-ms-songs

kvchellappa
Posts: 3598
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by kvchellappa »

Thanks. I have the songs with me a long time. I have the DVD of the film also.
My point was simple that all songs might not have been strictly according to a carnatic raga as sung in a concert (i said 'might not'). I was not even hinting that all film songs defy carnatic grammar. I have not seen a definite view as to what raga Katrinile varum geetham is in. I will stop as my knowledge of ragas is zero.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by RSR »

Ok Sir. Thank you

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: what is the ragam?

Post by arasi »

RSR,
Since you took the time to explain your stand individually to all the posters, and because you make a point about poet/composers, I say this. A number of my compositions are available on the web. You could spare a little time to listen to them and see how one rasikA fares in her compositions. Fellow member Venkatakailasam did a great job, spending a lot of time in adding appealing visuals to some of them.

The songs come as songs to me--not as words. The singers keep to that format and enhance them, of course.

A distraction for you, may I say, from being steeped in your mission? We all need some time away from our intense pursuits, once in a while... :)

Post Reply