Similar Ragas

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 16 Jun 2006, 10:33

in this context, it would be great help to have dr.s.rAmanAthan's lecdem on allied rAgAs aswell. it used to be at sangeethapriya.org. unfortunately iam unable to get to my copy now. anyone has access to that lec-demo?

kmk sir, u can add dEsh to complete the structurally similar trio - k.gowLai, suruTTi, and dEsh.

regards

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 16 Jun 2006, 10:35

http://rapidshare.de/files/22645134/SRa ... shaNas.zip
this was posted in sangeeta vidhyalayam thread

srinidhi · Post by **srinidhi** » 17 Jun 2006, 14:12

For my untrained ears, even Ramapriya can be confusing at the first hear.
It begins like pantuvarali, and I sit back happy that I got it right, then as the alapana reaches into the higher notes, I find myself humming "paraatpara" ...Omigosh was it Vaachaspati all along? Finally when the artist begins "Maatangi" or "Sandehamu"... then it dawns on me- It is Ramapriya, yippee :cheesy:

kmk · Post by **kmk** » 20 Jun 2006, 22:13

Yes I agree. Desh has got a part resemblence to Kedaragoula and Surati.
Also, Jaya Manohari is a perfect example of 'bringing out something different'
eventhough it is not far different from Abhogi and Sriranjani.
These thoughts can be extended to even practitioners singing some ragas keeping some already popuiular ragas in mind and then replacing one of
its swaras.
As an ex. Sudha Madhyama is replaced by Prati Madhyama in Thodi,
to carve out a difficult but evocative Bhavapriya (Bhavani for Deekshitar
students).
More light is welcome.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 27 Nov 2006, 18:27

A few more similar sounding ragas:
- Asaveri and Dhanyasi
- Narayanagowla and Dvijavanti
- Shuddhasaveri and Devamanohari
- Pantuvarali and Purvikalyani
- Saraswati and Vijayanagari
- Abheri and Shuddhadhanyasi
- Revagupti and Bhoopalam
- Kalyani and Hamsadhwani (occasionally yes!)

Can someone re-post the OST lecdem please! (preferably on a non-rapidshare site like rogepost.com)

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 28 Nov 2006, 13:20

arabi and devagandhari
shanmugapria and simmendra madyamam
thodi and dhanyasi
mohanam and mohanakalyani
saranga and yamuna kalyani?
anandha bhairavi and reethi gowla?
nadanamakria, mayamalava gowla and co
dharbar and nayaki
and many more.......
aberi and karnataka devagandhari are one and the same?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 28 Nov 2006, 14:20

- Kalyani and Hamsadhwani (occasionally yes!)

Do you mean occasionally these two ragas sound similar to you or you mean they are in general considered to have occasional similarities? I am not aware of any such similarities.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 28 Nov 2006, 16:19

saranga and yamuna kalyani?

You mean, Saranga and Hameer kalyani - right?

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 28 Nov 2006, 16:21

Do you mean occasionally these two ragas sound similar to you or you mean they are in general considered to have occasional similarities? I am not aware of any such similarities.

Until the distinct notes are touched, they could sound quite similar. Some of my rasika friends have told me the same.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 28 Nov 2006, 21:15

jayaram,

you're right. sorry for the mix up. it is saranga and hameerkalyani.

Jyothsna_music · Post by **Jyothsna_music** » 29 Nov 2006, 20:01

Pushpalathika - Manirangu, Nagaswaravali - bahudari are also twins

Rgds
Jyothsna SaiRam

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 29 Nov 2006, 20:36

now i forget
gowrimanohari was close to some raga too !!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 29 Nov 2006, 21:32

coolkarni wrote:now i forget
gowrimanohari was close to some raga too !!

sometimes kIravAni.

Arun

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 29 Nov 2006, 21:55

Now that we have a fairly long list of allied ragas, perhaps someone can comment on how to differentiate between them - for example, using distinguishing prayogas/phrases.

I am told BMK has done an elaborate alapana of Todi, where he goes on for a long time without touching any of the characteristic phrases, thus teasing the poor listeners into tears! Wonder if someone has that or similar recordings of Murali-garu.

As a contrast, someone like MDR would bring out the raga rupa within the first few notes itself.

Jyothsna_music · Post by **Jyothsna_music** » 30 Nov 2006, 00:04

can i get the lec dem again. the rapid share link and other link are not opening

Rgds
Jyothsna SaiRam

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 30 Nov 2006, 00:48

jayaram wrote:Now that we have a fairly long list of allied ragas, perhaps someone can comment on how to differentiate between them - for example, using distinguishing prayogas/phrases.

There is a very nice lecdem of Sri TM Krishna (held at Shivamogga) on sangeethapriya. Check it out if you haven't.

Darbar/Nayaki, Bhairavi/Manji/Mukhari/Huseni, Sri/Madhyamavati/Manirangu/Brindavani are discussed in this.

-Ram

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 30 Nov 2006, 03:31

can i get the lec dem again. the rapid share link and other link are not opening

"jyothsna

as u know, on this forum we use audio clips to understand the topic of discussions. Requesting for reuploads or clips one missed will be an never ending assignments don't u think?"

<<am just repeating the admonition from an Admin here

>>

swamirams72 · Post by **swamirams72** » 03 Dec 2006, 20:42

Madhuvanti and Dharmavati.
Malayamarutham, Valaji and Janasammodhini
Sivaranjani and Vijayanahari
Darbar and Nayaki
Nalinakanthi and Kadanakudhoohalam
Ritigowla and aanandhabhairavi
Hindolam and Suddha hindolam

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 03 Dec 2006, 21:49

saramathi and natabhairavi?
hindolam and chandragownce.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 04 Dec 2006, 03:10

hindolam and chandrakauns are the CM-HM sister ragas.

Perhaps we can pick a pair (or trio) of allied ragas and discuss the differences.
How about we start with darbar-nayaki? The gandharam is treated differently between the two. And nayaki has lots of jaaru gamakas.

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 04 Dec 2006, 04:46

hindolam has a kaisiki nishadam and Chandrakaus has a kakali nishadam...
if you can call them sister ragas

Sarma

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 04 Dec 2006, 05:24

That should be hindolam and malkauns perhaps?

shripathi_g · Post by **shripathi_g** » 04 Dec 2006, 07:54

I have found Desh and Nalinakanthi similar sometimes. Saramathi, Margahindolam too.

srinidhi · Post by **srinidhi** » 05 Dec 2006, 09:08

On Tuesdays, G Ravikiran (our forum member) hosts a special show on Shruti-Worldspace focussing on allied ragas. Each show delas with a few ragas which sound similar yet retain an identity of their own.

So far he has covered (1) Sri-Madhyamavati-Manirangu (2) Bhairavi-Mukhari-Manji-Huseni (3) Yaduklakambhoji-Dwijavanti (4) Anandabhairavi-Reetigowlai- Abheri.

The program repeats on Fridays 9PM.

srinivas · Post by **srinivas** » 06 Dec 2006, 16:52

i joined he forum recently,can me have the mishra hindola raga lnks]
secondly list of raagas in carnatic music

swamirams72 · Post by **swamirams72** » 10 Dec 2006, 19:14

Hamsaanandhi & Sunadhavinodhini
Nasikabhushani,Vaagadeeshwari,Vachaspathi &Saraswathi
Hindolam,hindola vasantham& Margahindolam
Nattai,Gambeera naatai
Pasupathipriya and suddhasaaveri
Mayamaalavagowla and Kamalamanohari

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 11 Dec 2006, 20:37

Nagaswarali - Bahudari

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 11 Dec 2006, 22:11

I think "lalitha panchamam and Takka" also.

srinivas · Post by **srinivas** » 11 Dec 2006, 22:17

dear swamirams72 and jayaram,
mishra hindola topic details have direction to collect spicy tips of ragas,still have mood to listen in female voice modulation,great information in raga knowledge management

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 11 Dec 2006, 23:18

perhaps poornashadjam and rudrapriya also?

braindrain · Post by **braindrain** » 12 Dec 2006, 12:46

Is there any similarities between Valachi and Malayamaarutham ?

ravi2006 · Post by **ravi2006** » 22 Dec 2006, 06:27

I recently heard a raga called Nata Narayani; Muthuswamy Dikshitar has composed a kriti 'Mahaganapathe palayasumam' in it. Can someone tell me how to differentiate it from Sama. They seem to have similar if not the same notes and arohana/avarohana.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 23 Jun 2008, 18:33

braindrain wrote:Is there any similarities between Valachi and Malayamaarutham ?

They are very similar with Malayamarutam allowing the Ri while Valaji doesn't.
Valaji is S G3 P D2 N2 S - S N2 D2 P G3 S
Malayamarutam is S R1 G3 P D2 N2 S - S N2 D2 P G3 R1 S

rajesh_rs · Post by **rajesh_rs** » 16 Jul 2008, 02:05

Simhendramadhyamam and Keeravani. Can anyone help me differentiate?

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 16 Jul 2008, 17:15

rajesh_rs,
In theory, the only difference is the madyamam- the former has pratimadhyamam, the latter suddhamadyamam.
Though the other swarams are all the same, the prayogams also help to differentiate.

rajesh_rs · Post by **rajesh_rs** » 16 Jul 2008, 18:14

Thanks, Punarvasu. I found compositions in Keeravani to alternate between being lighter and more emotional than Simhendramadhyamam which is a rather more grim and austere raga (with a tinge of deep emotion). I guess both ragas conjure a sense of nostalgia to some extent, although this is more pronounced in Simhendramadhyamam.

mdmurthy · Post by **mdmurthy** » 16 Jul 2008, 19:37

Hi

yes. there are some more ragas that come to my mind..
Pantuvarali and Poorvikalyani .
Chakravakam and Sourashtra
Valaji and Janasammodini
Sriranjani and abhogi
Manirang and Madhyamavathy

However, these can be easily identified/differentiated
if one knows the structure of the ragas and if one could identify the swars/notes.

Dakshina Murthy

CarnaticTreasureHunter · Post by **CarnaticTreasureHunter** » 26 Sep 2008, 10:53

cmlover wrote:Folks
Here is lecdem that I found in my vollections by Vid||OST which is most relevant to this thread
http://rapidshare.de/files/22729772/all ... s.mp3.html
Since this is noncommercial feel free to distribute. Listen to this slowly to relish the subtle beauty of the ragas that OST expounds!

Pl discuss each of these combinations too from your experience and other examples and make it lively! Regards

Sir,

The file is not available there anymore...can it be reposted please ?

Thank you

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 27 Sep 2008, 07:39

kedar, hamir kalyaniand deshkar, bhoop of hindustani music are some other exmples.. on a personal note .if i start singing, my wife says even Prof. Sambamurti cannot find out what raaga it is. I am reminded of a dialogue in the olden day film 'The man who came to dinner'. which is 'even Florence Nightingale would refuse to nurse you' . gobilalitha

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 27 Sep 2008, 08:27

rajesh_rs wrote:Thanks, Punarvasu. I found compositions in Keeravani to alternate between being lighter and more emotional than Simhendramadhyamam which is a rather more grim and austere raga (with a tinge of deep emotion). I guess both ragas conjure a sense of nostalgia to some extent, although this is more pronounced in Simhendramadhyamam.

Really? I find Simhendramadhyamam kinda sensual (hope the filter does not chew and spit this out) while Keeravani more morose. This may be because, among other things, the former is sung more in the upper ranges while the latter's swaroopa resides more in the lower range.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Sep 2008, 08:36

All in our individual perception, I suppose. To me, simhEmadhyamam has majesty (like a simhA?) and a liveliness (because of the upper range?). Yes, kIravANI is a bit somber, bur yields itself to a lot of emoting within its framework.

hariharan · Post by **hariharan** » 27 Sep 2008, 16:11

What about the rag " Karnaranjini" and " Salagabhairavi"

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 Jan 2012, 00:35

mdmurthy wrote:Hi
yes. there are some more ragas that come to my mind..
Pantuvarali and Poorvikalyani .
Chakravakam and Sourashtra
Valaji and Janasammodini
Sriranjani and abhogi
Manirang and Madhyamavathy

However, these can be easily identified/differentiated
if one knows the structure of the ragas and if one could identify the swars/notes.
Dakshina Murthy

I recently checked out ragasurabhi http://www.ragasurabhi.com/identifying-ragas.html
Their way of distinguishing and explaining related and allied ragas is very wise. Especially purvikalyani and pantuvarali is explained with a lot of clarity through singing ( Week 27 - 27-Feb-10 at the above link ). The method they use to show the raga bhava and the differences is quite brilliant: They sing a short snippet using the name of the raga as the lyric, the first part of each snippet illustrates the difference between the two ragas and the last part the sameness. Minimal, crisp and clear. Well done!

Vijayakumar · Post by **Vijayakumar** » 10 Mar 2012, 16:23

I am an ardent fan of this site and have learnt a lot through this site www.ragasurabhi.com. They have handled and continue to handle various allied ragas and help differentiate. Anyone can request a differentiation and will be dealt with the musician there.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 29 Mar 2012, 07:55

thanks. excellent website

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 29 Mar 2012, 07:58

excellent website, thanks

rasikas.org

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