Structuring a Korvai in the thani

[mridhangam]

The korvai listed above by me can be improvised further as follows :

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Thadikitathom
thadikitathom
thadikitathom , , ,

Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Thade , kitathom
thade , kitathom
thade , kitathom , , ,

Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Tha, de , kitathom
tha, de , kitathom
tha, de , kitathom , , ,

Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom ||Tha

[sbala]

Hello JB,
If possible, could you upload a demonstration of the above korvai? I think we would be able to correlate the sollus better if we hear the audio.

[gn.sn42]

Moderators, could you make this thread sticky?

[meena]

gn.sn42

Done

[mridhangam]

yes i will surely upload all the above korvais .. i hv made one more improvement to that korvai .. alongwith that i shall do in a day or two .. very busy with professional commitments. sorry dear friends

[gn.sn42]

Thank you, meena.

[msakella]

Hello! Brother-members dear, Our brother-member mridhangam has come forward to enlighten you in mridangam play. I feel extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemely happy.
I shall give you a small bit of kanakku hereunder. Please try.
(‘t’ for tha, ‘t’ for ta, ‘d’ for dhi, ‘g’ for gi, ‘n’ for na, ‘k’ for ki, ‘k’ for ka,
’,’ for 1-unit gap, ‘;’ for 2-units gap, gap means karvai)

1.t ; d ; g ; n ; t ; - tdgnt, - tdgnt, - tdgnt»
2.k ; t ; t ; k ; - td,gnt, - td,gnt, - td,gnt»
3.t ; k ; t ; - t,d,gnt, - t,d,gnt, - t,d,gnt»
4.t ; k ; - td,tdgnt, - td,tdgnt, -td,tdgnt»
5.t ; - t,d,tdgnt, - t,d,tdgnt, - t,d,tdgnt»
6. - t;d,tdgnt, - t;d,tdgnt, - t;d,tdgnt»

You can recite any one of the above 3 times as a muktayi or any 3 of the above consecutively as a muktayi or 1st, 3rd & 5th consecutively as a muktayi or 2nd , 4th & 6th consecutively as a muktayi.
In fact, to become a successful Violin accompanist, one must strive hard to learn all these things to play in their Svarakalpana. Before that, at the first instance, one must practice different Laya exercises furnished in my book, Sangita Svararaga Sudha. Later, he/she must practice all the hundreds of muktayis (furnished in terms of easily writable and followable symbols) in terms of Mridanga-jatis first for all the 6 popular Talas, Rupaka, Trisra-rupaka, Chapu, Adi (medium-tempo), Adi (slow-tempo) & Adi (Trisra-gati) furnished in this book. If you are used to follow these symbols you can very easily carry hundreds of muktayis in a ½ page of A4 size paper filled with symbols in your shirt-pocket. Anyone can try himself. All this I could do this only by the grace of the Almighty. amsharma.

[mridhangam]

further improvisation of the same korvai as follows :

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Thadikitathom
thadikitathom
thadikitathom , , , (3 * 5)

Tha Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha Dhim , Thadiginathom (3 * 8)

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Thade , kitathom
thade , kitathom
thade , kitathom , , , (3 *6)

Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom (3 * 9)

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Tha, de , kitathom
tha, de , kitathom
tha, de , kitathom , , , (3 * 7)

Tha , , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , , Dhim , Thadiginathom ||Tha (3 * 10)
From the above variety you can observe any combination you take and play three times. The actual logic lies in the fact that if you play 3 times 5 then the previous number 4 once 5 once and 6 once also makes the total to 15 (3 * 5). Not only this 3 + 5 + 7 and 2 + 5 + 8 and 1 + 5 + 9 also makes the total to 15. Within the 3 * 5 itself you can play any of thes combinations. we can slightly modify the above korvai in such a way that keeping the poorvanga constant we can keep on chaning the madyanga and utharanga in umpteen number of ways. (May be according to talaprastara we can arrive at the exact number of varieties for which our sbala can be of immense help). I shall give you another example of how to change the 3 * 5 and 3 * 6 and 3 * 7 alone from the above keeping the utharaanga constant that is 3 * 8 and 3 * 9 and 3 * 10.

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

thakadimi
thadikitathom
thadee, kitathom , , , (4+5+6)

Tha Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha Dhim , Thadiginathom (3 * 8)

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Thadikitathom
thade , kitathom
tha, de , kitathom , , , (5+6+7)

Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom (3 * 9)

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Thade , kitathom
tha, de , kitathom
tha, de , kita, thom , , , (6+7+8))

Tha , , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , , Dhim , Thadiginathom ||Tha (3 * 10)


I am actually preparing the audio samples for these three mentioned above for the pleasure of listeners and lots of other korvais as well. Because our member NickH asked me to have the madyanga as well in the first instance i am following this line. Within a day or two i shall upload audio samples.
Thanks for your patience

Thanks Meenaji for making this topic sticky. But i would love to have Talaprastara as well by our Akella garu as his contribution to this forum and the music world is really commendable. Hence my humble request is that both these topics can be made sticky too, if possible. sorry only later i saw that Talaprastara also is sticky. Thanks anyway

J.Balaji

[msakella]

Brother-member, mridhangam dear, How much Vidya or fame or money or buildings or cars or medals or titles or honours we have acquired is not the critieria at all. The Almighty, being in all the beings, finds whether a person always remains in a giving away mood or taking in mood and the person who always remains in a giving away mood will always be blessed with absorbing ability and remains under his great shelter. I like the people who are always ready to serve the society. All along in my life, the Almighty
kept me in this holy-path and blessed me to the full extent in spite of many others negative attitude towards me. I am extremely happy to find you trying to enlighten our community through your educative posts in our forum. Keep it up and you will also become bless by the Almighty. Giving away the knowledge of Korvais is also more useful to our community and it is the topic as important as Talaprastara to make it ‘sticky’. Our moderators did a very nice job in making this topic also sticky. I like much to learn from your educative posts. Thanking you once again for your educative posts, amsharma.

[jayaram]

I have to commend Sharma-garu and Balaji-sir for raising the level of this forum to great heights. It's not often that one gets to learn about the layam aspect of CM; you are both doing wonderful service. Thank you.

[msakella]

Brother-member, jayaram dear, In fact, it is but natural always to extend our helping hand to anybody and everybody and I do not think it is great to do so. But, nowadays, as it has become very difficult to find such people, you are treating us great. I always feel it is everybody’s duty to help.
Generally, people are more interested in learning music but not Laya much. Laya is instinctive and Shruti could be acquired by constant practice of it. Many of the music teachers do not know that every aspirant must be tested first in Laya and the mode of testing. I have made extensive research upon this also and found that unless the aspirant is provided with the required instinct of Laya he/she should not be taught music at all. But, even though some of the teachers are aware of it, they will not reveal it lest they will have to loose many of the students and it affects their income. To build up good standards in music the teachers must take proper care in selecting their students and in training them properly. amsharma.

[mridhangam]

I am uploading all the four korvais mentioned above :

All MP3 files

1 ) http://rapidshare.com/files/23217012/Ko ... _No.12.mp3

2) http://rapidshare.com/files/23217043/Ko ... _no_26.mp3

3) http://rapidshare.com/files/23217075/ko ... o_33-1.mp3

4) http://rapidshare.com/files/23217257/ko ... o_33-2.mp3

With the same korvai demonstrated above there are other possibilities. About which i shall come tomorrow.


Mannarkoil J Balaji

[mridhangam]

One more variety for the above korvai

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

thadikitathom
thadikitathom
thadikitathom , , , (3 *5)

Tha , Dhim , ginathom
Tha , Dhim , ginathom
Tha , Dhim , ginathom (3 * 7)


Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

thade , kitathom
thade , kitathom
thade , kitathom, , , (3 *6)

Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom (3 * 9)

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

tha, de , kitathom
tha, de , kitathom
tha, de , kitathom (3 * 7)

Tha , , Dhim , , Thadiginathom
Tha , , Dhim , , Thadiginathom
Tha , , Dhim , , Thadiginathom ||Tha (3 * 11)

Mannarkoil J balaji

[sbala]

Balaji Sir,
Just listened to the first file, the clarity is amazing.

[mridhangam]

Members ...
y there is a lull in this forum suddenly ? should i stop ? or do i hv to take a different course ? pls shoot your questions.

Thank you
J.B

[vasanthakokilam]

Balaji: Please keep going. Your effort is much appreciated. It is quite interesting to listen to your playing while eyeballing the symbols and catching on to the patterns. BTW, it is quite a challenge ( and interesting and entertaining ) to keep the thalam given all the combinations across beats. The metronome beat is quite useful to get back in sync to the beat. I had an easier time with 33-2 than others with 26 posing quite a challenge.

I am digesting stuff slowly. I am trying to map all this to the first lesson you provided with the structure of poorvanga and uttaranga. (tha ka tha ki ta) (tha di ki na thom ) has sunk in after a few tries.. now you have lot more symbols and ',' which I am trying to map out to that original lesson. What I am trying to do is to look up in those two tables for poorvanga and uttaranga and find out which X and Y axis numbers you are using for your variations on the basic theme you started with.

I am assuming that for all the four korvais so far, there is one Poorvanga and one Uttaranga as you taught in the first lesson and each one has a corresponding beat count in their respective tables. Which then leads to reading off the kanakku number and the karvai number from the table. May be things have gotten more complicated from the first lesson. Please let me know if I am approaching it right.

[mridhangam]

Vasanthakokilam :

The korvais I have mentioned above were triggered by Nick H question to include Madyanga also. Hence I am following that thread for the present and including madyanga in this Korvai in the first instance. I know it is difficult to digest the korvais at a single shot. As playing them for me is easier due to years of training and concert experience. Writing them for the understanding of millions of readers is quite a task in itself. The Korvais so far have been only continuation of the previous ones with variations and improvisations. What i felt was to give out the combinations possible for this korvai and then go to another important topic how the korvai is structured fundamentally, apart from the basic points like mathematics and calculation aspects. There is an aspect called "Aasu" (I dont know how exactly this is pronounced and also which language this word has come from. I simply know that there are some set patterns available through years of evolution and played and used for many years by stalwarts and handed down through training and assimilation). This aasu can be taken as a basic pattern and mostly this aasu is taken as a starting point for making a korvai. A set of patterns or even a single pattern is taken as an Aasu and further development is made on that Aasu. Almost 90% of the Korvais that are played are combinations of Aasu's developed by our forefathers and the living legends. Coupled with the imagination of the Artistes the Aasu's are made to look new but generally all are already available.
J.Balaji

[rajumds]

Members ...
y there is a lull in this forum suddenly ? should i stop ? or do i hv to take a different course ? pls shoot your questions.

Thank you
J.B

The lull is more due to our slowness in understanding. Please do keep posting. If it is not a trouble to you, can you start from the basics. An effort was made almost a year back by Param but it never took off.

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=352

[pallavi.pr]

Hi,

mridhangam, gr8 job. thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge on a very important aspect.

Also mridhangam, pls could you throw some light on mohras? I would like to know what is the basic structure of any mohra. And I would like to hear different mohras as well. Could we discuss about that in the same thread? Or should I start a new thread on that? Let me know friends!

[mridhangam]

Pallavi.pr

Though I might be digressing from this topic a bit i would like to dwell on the structure of moharas as well here as requested by Pallavi.pr.


MOHARAS
Kindly refer above to post No: 12 for basic details. I will go on with how a mohara is structured.
Basics to be cleared :

1) The mohara comes at the end of a Tani Avartanam (Not necessarily also according to some people as I have heard Trichy Sankaran Sir himself refer to the ending part as Periya Mohara-Meaning Long Mohara and the intervening Mohara as small Moharas). The topic of Mohara itself is very elaborate. I am not going to delve deep into the origin of words and also the technicalities of it. I am restricting myself to practice and also the apporach as far as a concert platform is concerned.

2) Farans are played before the mohara.

3) After the Mohara and korvai the song is taken. (Here also there is a confusion. Take this following example: The kriti Meenakshi Memudam Dehi in Poorvikalyani/Gamakakriya. In this kriti the Pallavi starts in Samam whereas the Charanam where mostly the Niravals swaras are sung starts after one beat in 2 Kalai Adi. There will be no confusion for the mridangist if the singer asks the mridangist to play tani avartanam after the niraval swaram then he can happily play at one beat after samam. Whereas if the singer comes back to the pallavi and finishes the song and then leaves ? There are many versions to this. Some experts say that the tani avartanam should be played only for the place where the Niraval and Swara has taken place. Some others believe that the singer has done the niraval and swara part. But he has completed the song and he has come back to pallavi. So the mridangist should logically play tani avartanam at Sama Eduppu only.)

After the above I shall delve deep into how a mohara is structured:

Mohara is generally played with the following structure:
What i am giving here is the basic simplest form.

1) Take any talam
2) From the total beat per avarta deduct 4 (Constant deduction of 4 for any tala from the total counts per avarta- I will come to a point where we can even deduct other numbers. But for the beginning we shall restrict ourselves to 4. Later on we can even deduct 5 or 6 or even 8 after i explain to you how to deal with them. For the present let us have this 4 as the common deductible number.)
3) Take the Remainder
4) Divide by two
5) You have the mohara mathematics for one avarta now.
6) the next step is a little tricky. Let me try to make u understand. What we have to do here is to divide the 4 mentioned above in point number (2) by 2. That is make the 4 into two parts.
7) Next you can have the structure like this : Remainder+ 2 + Remainder + 2 will give you the total structure for one avarta. The 2 in the middle should be "Rolling Strokes or Uruttai Sorkal" and the ending 2 should be muktayi like Thalangu thom tha thom tha thom or thakajonu thomtha thom tha thom etc.
8) This is repeated for two avartas.
9) After two avartas the structure changes. The structure goes like this:
Remainder+ 2 + Remainder+ 1
Remainder + 1
Remainder + 4 count muktayi like thalangu dinna thom thalagu dinna thom thalangu dinna (thom)
10) The above rule holds good for any tala we can make. I shall give you examples of how we can structure a mohara for adi tala first and go on to other talas as well.

Adi Tala Mohara:

Total Beats per cycle = 8
Deduct 4 from the total = 8-4 = 4
Divide the Remainder by 2 = 4 / 2 = 2
The structure of Aditala is very easy and simple 2 + 2 + 2 + 2.

The structure that is used for 4 cycles has the following structure

2 +2+2+2
2+2+2+ 2
2+2+2+ 1
2 + 1
2 + 4 (Muktayi)

If you count the total it will be 32 which is to be structured in the above way to give a proper mohara.

Take for example a longer tala like Khanda Jaati Druva Tala with a total 17 Beats per cycle:

1) Deduct 4 from the total : 17 - 4 = 13
2) Divide 13 / 2 = 6 1/2
3) The structure is as follows :

6 1/2 + 2 + 6 1/2 + 2
6 1/2 + 2 + 6 1/2 + 2
6 1/2 + 2 + 6 1/2 + 1
6 1/2 + 1
6 1/2 + 4 (Muktayi)

Total will be 17 * 4 = 68.

Now comes the task of representing the above with sollus. Which i will deal after you have assimilated the basic structure of the moharas. The 1/2 akshara mentioned above will give some problems for members steeped in Talaprastara topics especially Bala and others. But what i have mentioned here is within the tala how the total can be split to give the result for odd number talas. This will be very helpful when we create moharas for Nadai based talas.

Rest later.
Mannarkoil J Balaji

[vasanthakokilam]

Balaji: Excellent description and looking forward to further elaboration.

you have been doing a great job as a teacher and I can understand it is quite a pain to write all this. Thanks very much for that.

A few items on the presentation of the material for us beginners to grasp all this without getting mixed up.

1) Can you provide us a list the various sollus that you will be using: Like the 'tha', 'ka', 'ki', 'ta', 'thom' etc.

2) Are all of them one sub-unit in duration ( in the specified nadai, chathusra being the default).

3) Also, do each of them have a specific sound when played on a mridangam. If you can provide an audio of that where you speak one sollu and play that sollu three times with a gap between them, that will help us get tuned to the sounds.

4) What is the meaning of ',' when you use them with the solkattu?

5) Is it possible to leave one space between each sollu and then more than one space if you want to separate a group of them?

6) With the basic Korvai lesson that you started, can you give an audio example with just Poorvanga and Uttaranga ( without the madhyanga ). You can use the one you started with. And then provide the variations on the same structure that you have done with the three part one ( Poorvanga-madhyanga-uttaranga). That can be our lesson 1 and then we will use the three part one as the second lesson which you have already done.

Thanks very much.

[mridhangam]

1) Can you provide us a list the various sollus that you will be using: Like the 'tha', 'ka', 'ki', 'ta', 'thom' etc.

It is absolutely difficult to list all the list of various sollus. There are various combinations of sollus that we play as taught to us or assimilated.

2) Are all of them one sub-unit in duration ( in the specified nadai, chathusra being the default).

Unit duration also is a very complicated topic. sub-unit meas there are 1 sollu per beat in chatusra nadai 1st speed, 2 sollus in 2nd speed, 4 in third speed 8 in 4th speed and goes on doubling. You may observe that there are 2 subunits in second speed and 4 subunits per beat in third speed and so on and so forth. The sollus mentioned above have one sub unit duration only.

3) Also, do each of them have a specific sound when played on a mridangam. If you can provide an audio of that where you speak one sollu and play that sollu three times with a gap between them, that will help us get tuned to the sounds.

Yes. As there are saptaswaras there are 7 basic syllables in mridangam playing also. They are listed below :

Tha
Dhi (A variation gives Ri)
Thom (A variation is gumukki)
Nam
Dhin
Ta
Chaapu (Contains Full and Half Chaapus)

Of the above Tha, Dhi and Ta are non-vibrating. Ri, Thom, Dhin and Chaapu are Vibrating syllables. Nam is partially vibrating and partially non-vibrating. That is y this sollu is very difficult to teach and play at the learning stages. Takes time to get Nam sollu alone.

4) What is the meaning of ',' when you use them with the solkattu?

, means one gap in 3rd speed. (one sub unit gap should be given). Actually i am following this after NickH has given it in his korvai. Kindly see his post where he has used the comma for leaving one sub-unit of gap in 3rd speed. That is all. 2 commas means 2 sub units of gap and 3 commas means 3 sub-units of gap. That is all. After reading NickH's post i am following this method that is all. If anyone can apprise me of how we can represent for uniformity sake i shall do so from then onwards.

5) Is it possible to leave one space between each sollu and then more than one space if you want to separate a group of them?

I dont understand this question.May i know Under what context this has been posed ?

6) With the basic Korvai lesson that you started, can you give an audio example with just Poorvanga and Uttaranga ( without the madhyanga ). You can use the one you started with. And then provide the variations on the same structure that you have done with the three part one ( Poorvanga-madhyanga-uttaranga). That can be our lesson 1 and then we will use the three part one as the second lesson which you have already done.

Sure I shall do so.

J Balaji

[sankirnam]

Pallavi.pr
1) The mohara comes at the end of a Tani Avartanam (Not necessarily also according to some people as I have heard Trichy Sankaran Sir himself refer to the ending part as Periya Mohara-Meaning Long Mohara and the intervening Korvais as small Moharas).

Actually, Upendransir used to play moharas in the middle of his thanis as well as a periya mohara at the end. He would play sankirnam or kandam, for example, build it up with farens phrases, and then play the adi thala mohara in that nadai. In the end of the thani, he would play a different mohara. I think he was the only person to do this (as far as I have heard).
If necessary, I can upload an example of a thani where he does this... that might be instructive.

http://rapidshare.com/files/23826760/06 ... i.mp3.html

In this thani, Upendransir starts with tisram, then jumps to sankirnam. After some vinyasam in sankirnam involving farens, he plays the adi thalam mohara in sankirnam. The transition to kandam is really very clever. He uses 9's to go from sankirnam to kandam! (It is 9+1 karvai). Then, he plays kandam, and finishes that with a korvai in tisrakandam (5*3). Then, the final periya mohara and korvai are in tisram.

[vasanthakokilam]

Balaji: Thanks very much. Your answers clarify things for me.

With reference to question 5,

for example,

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita

you have single spaces between groups of sollus, like 'thaka' and 'tharikita'. I was not sure if there is any significance.
But given your explanation of what ',' is, then I preassume that is a logical grouping and while playing you play them without any gaps. Please correct me if that understanding is not correct.

[mridhangam]

Member Vasanthakokilam

The spaces between group of sollus is only for understanding and has got no relevance to karvai aspects as such. Karvais are indicated only by , here. That comma also is for easy understanding of one karvai etc. It is very difficult to read "gitathakatharikitathakathom" or "thakatharikitathakathom" and hence i have left gaps though they are not real karvais while playing.

Member Sankirnam :

Excellent. That clarifies my statement too and also another aspect of Tani Avartanam. What i meant earlier which used to be expressed by Trichy Sankaran Sir is nothing but different Aasu with different korvais before the Periya Moharas were also referred to as Moharas by him. But what you have said is something new to me. That is playing a mohara in Khanda Nadai or Tisra Nadai before the Periya Mohara is very interesting. Could you pls upload the audio if you hve it ?

Thank You
J.Balaji

[mridhangam]

6) With the basic Korvai lesson that you started, can you give an audio example with just Poorvanga and Uttaranga ( without the madhyanga ). You can use the one you started with. And then provide the variations on the same structure that you have done with the three part one ( Poorvanga-madhyanga-uttaranga). That can be our lesson 1 and then we will use the three part one as the second lesson which you have already done.

Taking our thread of korvais and the same variety listed above without the madyanga i am giving the korvai below and the varieties will follow suit one after another....

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Tha , Dhin , ginathom , , , (7 * 1 + 3 karvai)
Tha , Dhin , ginathom tha , dhin , ginathom , , , (7 * 2 + 3 karvai)
Tha , Dhin , ginathom Tha , Dhin , ginathom Tha , Dhin , ginathom (Tha). (7 * 3) makes 48 utharaangam.

How i got this idea of 1, 2 and 3 is very interesting. The 48 can be split into three parts with of 14 each with 3 karvais after the first 14 and second 14. If there are three 14s then it is easy to get 7, 14 and 21 as per the logic i have mentioned earlier. That is what i have done here. Just playing 14 into 3 times leaving a gap of 3 will not look nice practically. Hence this idea of presentation.

Will upload the audio soon.

J.Balaji

[Nick H]

Just a little rambling on notation and reading....

I don't think I could ever have made any sense of mridangam had my teacher not given notation, even of those early lessons, in a form where, like reading poetry, one can see the structure.

Even without using underline for second speed (double underline for third speed is hard on a computer...), one gets the idea of the difference in speeds seeing

Tha Dhi Ghi Na Thom and Kitatakatharikitaka.

Even without spaces, it can be made more readable, and the phrasing more obvious by adding caps --- KitaTakaThariKitaThaka.

Some texts give the structure just in numbers eg 5,,, 5,,, 5 --- which is fine for artists, for they need only the structure and can play whatever fits, also knowing what fingering is appropriate and changing it according to improvisation.

For students and onlookers (I think I'm an onlooker these days) it is important that the difference between Tha Dhi Ghi Na Thom and Tha Ka Tha Ki ta be, literally, spelt out. One is an appropriate korvai pattern, the other is not.

Quite apart from the fact that we can enjoy the vocal sounds of these wonderful compositions as composed by our gurus and their gurus

This latest korvais is a very nice example of the 1+2+3=3*2 logic, and a lovely example of how maths becomes music.

Thank you for following the format of notation that I am comfortable with . It is a format with which my guruji has made some understanding of mridangam possible for those who would have found it very hard otherwise.

[pallavi.pr]

Hi Friends!

Just read the thorough explanation given by Mridhangam. Will get back to you with queries .

True Vasanthakokilam, to teach something so intricate in a manner that we must understand is indeed a task! Kudos to u mridhangam!

[pallavi.pr]

mridhangam,

I may have some very basic doubts in korvais and mohras, but I'm learning music and I want to gain knowledge on this important aspect.

As you mentioned the song is taken up after the mohra. I thought the mohra is followed by the korvai and then the song is taken up. Please clarify if my understanding is wrong. Thx!

Please could you give an example of a how these two come one after the other and then the song is taken up. Maybe a complete example of Thani will be gr8 ...hope I'm not asking for tooo much!

The example could include when the mridhangam and upapakkavadhyas start playing together. From there on, the farans, mohra and korvai.

Or even better would be if you could take an existing audio clipping and analyze that for us by explaining the elements in the thani.

It will be great mridhangam! Awaiting your response

[vasanthakokilam]

Tha Dhi Ghi Na Thom and Kitatakatharikitaka.

Even without spaces, it can be made more readable, and the phrasing more obvious by adding caps --- KitaTakaThariKitaThaka.

Balaji, I think the caps idea of Nick will work for me as well.

Also, I am trying to tie the poorvanga and uttaranga of the korvais back to the matrix ( table ) you provided in post number 5. So, for each Korvai, can you specify the table coordinates in the ( kanakku, karvai ) form. For example, for a poorvanga count of 54, one possible coordinate is ( 10, 8 ) and for the uttaranga count of 42, one possible coordinate is ( 10, 6 ). May be I am taking your tables too literally and too much in a concrete fashion but I liked your compact table representation of the various possibilities.

[mridhangam]

Member Vasanthakokilam
You can take the korvais table literally for the beginning and go slolwy and gradually to advanced calculations so that it becomes natural for you or for any other willing participants. And more so as you had pointed out the compactness of the table which has been created for the sake of millions of students by me. Moreover this is not exhaustive as you can build it for whatever number you want based on the requirement. Longer the Tala longer could be your requirement and hence you can extend the table beyond 10 also.

In your post above the total should be for three avartanas that is 54+42 makes 96 which can be handled the way you have mentioned. Having used 10 as a pattern with 8 as karvai for the poorvanga you can take 8 with 9 karvais to make the total to 42 for the utharaanga as once again the combination with 10 in the utharaanga also makes little variety. I will now represent the above with a korvai given below :

Thakitathom, thadinginathom tha , , , dhi , , ,
Thakitathom, thadinginathom tha , , , dhi , , ,
Thakitathom, thadinginathom tha , , , dhi , , ,

thakita thadinginathom (tha , , tha , , tha , ,)
thakita thadinginathom (tha , , tha , , tha , ,)
thakita thadinginathom (tha)

In the above the poorvaanga kaarvai is split into 4+4 and the utharaanga kaarvai is split into (3+3+3). Now I too have a korvai for three avarthas. One more tip here any three avarta korvai in adi tala may be immediately converted into tisra nadai also.

Member Pallavi.pr

You are not asking too much of anything. I am trying to be as educative as possible to this forum members and want to give my might for the benefit of Rasikas.

I have modified the post kindly refer to the item there that after the Mohara and Korvai the song is taken and not as mentioned earlier "After the Mohara the song is taken". Sorry about the error.

Only after the mohara the korvai comes and after the korvai is played three times the song is taken by the singer and it will be finished.

J.Balaji

[vasanthakokilam]

Having used 10 as a pattern with 8 as karvai for the poorvanga you can take 8 with 9 karvais to make the total to 42 for the utharaanga as once again the combination with 10 in the utharaanga also makes little variety.

Thanks Balaji..Very nice. I liked your idea of adding the variety between poorvanga and uttaranga. And that is the usefulness of your table. It is a matter of looking up another cell for the same number 42 and read off the (kanakku, karvai ) coordinate. Of course, presentation and aesthetic considerations are paramount as you have shown in your example transformation. Thanks again.

[pallavi.pr]

Thx Balaji. Looking forward to seeing more of your Gyaaan on this topic!

[mridhangam]

Vasanthakokilam .. i was triggered yesterday so much with 42 did so many varieties out of it. I will give below the varieties for the 42 apart from 8+ 9 karvai+8+9 karvai+8 :-

it works really nice from the logic of reducing a number in the beginning and increasing a number at the end ....

1 ) 8 + (9 )+ 8 + (9) + 8

2) 7 + (9 )+ 8 + (9) + 9

3) 6 + (9 )+ 8 + (9) + 10

4) 5 + (9 )+ 8 + (9) + 11

5) 4 + (9 )+ 8 + (9) + 12

6) 3 + (9 )+ 8 + (9) + 13

7) 2 + (9 )+ 8 + (9) + 14

8) 1 + (9 )+ 8 + (9) + 15

9) actually 0 + (9) + 8 + (9)+ 16

The ninth is a little tricky and one can wonder how to play 0. It is just for showing the reduction that is all. Moreover when you are playing a misra koraippu from the Ring Finger spot for Adi Talam One kalai you hv to render two 7s and then leave a gap of 9 and then play 8 and leave a gap of 9 and then play 16. Which will be very nice to listen to also ....

Did much more than the above varieties. Did sub splitting of the numbers and gave me immense varieties and really had a very filling day. Just thought of sharing with all of you. Enjoy.

J.Balaji

[vasanthakokilam]

Balaji, wonderful.. Thanks for sharing that.

[mridhangam]

Members further questions are welcome ? basic or advanced ... I am daring to go from here ...
J.Balaji

[mridhangam]

The next topic you might want to know is about Korvai is that there are mixtures of korvais where you have the Poorvanga-Utharanga intermingled giving a feeling that there is no poorvanga or utharaanga. Actually there are korvais which have intermingling of Poorvanga-utharaanga which gives a beautiful dimension to the Korvai structure. I give below an example for adi tala 2 cycles with 16 counts and 64 sub units in third speed :

Basic Poorvanga-utharaanga structure is simple splitting of 24 and 40.

24 is divided by 3 and made into 3 * 8 or alternatively 7 + 8 + 9

the 40 is divided into 3 parts of 15 + 10 + 5 * 3

15 is represented with Tha , , dhi , , gi , , na , , thom , ,
10 is represented with tha , dhi , gi , na , thom
5 * 3 is Thadiginathom thadiginathom thadiginathom tha.

The korvai would look like this as a basic structure :

Tha , Dhi , ginathom
Tha , , dhi , ginathom
tha , , dhi , , ginathom

Tha , , dhi , , gi , , na , , thom , ,
tha , dhi , gi , na , thom ,
thadiginathom thadiginathom thadiginathom (tha)

Now mixing poorvanga and utharaanga we can get a nice korvai out of the above which looks aesthetically beautiful and also technically precise :

Tha , Dhi , ginathom Tha , , dhi , , gi , , na , , thom , ,
Tha , , dhi , ginathom tha , dhi , gi , na , thom ,
tha , , dhi , , ginathom thadiginathom thadiginathom thadiginathom (tha)

That korvai of 24+40 has taken a totally new direction by this method of intermingling of Poorvanga and utharaanga.

Hope you understand it.
Thank you
J.Balaji

[sbala]

JB Sir,
In this case, would it be right to say it has no poorvanga and uttaranga even though
it was derived from a korvai that had these parts.

[mridhangam]

Member sbala
we cant say there is no poorvaanga or utharaanga in that korvai they have been masked that all there is definite poorvanga and utharanga .. but they are intermingled. So we can term it Misra Korvai. Whatever we name it, more than the name it is the beauty of the korvai that is more important and the way in which it is presented and made acceptable.

J.Balaji

[Nick H]

That is a fantastic korvais!

I know that if I heard it in a concert I would completely fail to understand it... but seeing it written and understanding its derivation.....

[vasanthakokilam]

Balaji, that is a nice and clear explanation. Even I understood it. When you get a chance, please upload an audio of you playing that. Thanks.

[drshrikaanth]

-------

we can slightly modify the above korvai in such a way that keeping the poorvanga constant we can keep on chaning the madyanga and utharanga in umpteen number of ways. (May be according to talaprastara we can arrive at the exact number of varieties for which our sbala can be of immense help). I shall give you another example of how to change the 3 * 5 and 3 * 6 and 3 * 7 alone from the above keeping the utharaanga constant that is 3 * 8 and 3 * 9 and 3 * 10.

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

thakadimi
thadikitathom
thadee, kitathom , , , (4+5+6)

Tha Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha Dhim , Thadiginathom (3 * 8)

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Thadikitathom
thade , kitathom
tha, de , kitathom , , , (5+6+7)

Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , Dhim , Thadiginathom (3 * 9)

Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom , kita thaka tharikita
Dhi , tan,gita thaka tharikitathaka thom , tha , thom ,

Thade , kitathom
tha, de , kitathom
tha, de , kita, thom , , , (6+7+8))

Tha , , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , , Dhim , Thadiginathom
Tha , , Dhim , Thadiginathom ||Tha (3 * 10)

Balaji
First of all congratulations on doing a great job. You explain and play very well.

Just heard your nice audio demos. One observation in this second pattern vs. your audio demo. (33-2). In the last third cycle, The (6+7+8) pattern you have shown here (which I have highlighted) is not the same as what you have played. you have played "tatomtadiginatom ta,,", This is strictly not in keeping with the pattern in the other 2 cycles. Is that OK?

Keep up your good work.

[mridhangam]

Tha, de, kita, thom is for understanding i have given above though it can be played also. Thade, kitahom tha, de, kitahom and tha, de, kita, thom is the logical order and hence i have give it like that. But while recording Naturally it came to me as Thathom, thadiginathom thathom, thadiginathom thathom, thadiginathom which is also another variety of 8. May be i should change it. It is only a performace blue i think.
Anyway thanks for letting me know. I shall be careful to play what is written.

Thank you
J.Balaji

[drshrikaanth]

But while recording Naturally it came to me as Thathom, thadiginathom thathom, thadiginathom thathom, thadiginathom which is also another variety of 8. May be i should change it. It is only a performace blue i think.

Thanks for the clarification Balaji. You actually played " tatomginatom ta,dimginatom ta tom tadiginatom tam," which did not have the symmetry of the previous cycles as also being different, and hence my question.

I also notice you have used dim and tom interchangeably while playing. Is that usual practice- like dim, tom and nam being used interchangeably (all having 2-subbeat length and being vibrating sollus, nam is a bit of both?).

[drshrikaanth]

Another related question about sollus. The chaapu. Is that what you play as tAngu (.g tadinginatom tadinginatom tadinginatom ta~ng). What is a full and half chaapu?

[mridhangam]

Dr.Shrikanth Sir,
Both full chaapu and arai chaapu can be used. I have mostly used Arai Chaapu.

I am shortly uploading the audio samples of the korvais mentioned above from posts after 33.
J.Balaji

[mridhangam]

The audio samples of the korvais mentioned above after 33 are given below :-


Adi Tala Mohara (Pallavi.pr pls)
http://rapidshare.com/files/24943348/Ad ... _No-45.mp3

Dhruva Tala Mohara (Khanda Jaati Druva 17 counts total) First cycle 17 beats only farans. Only after that Mohara Starts.
http://rapidshare.com/files/24944088/Dh ... _No-45.mp3

Korvai as Per post No: 51
http://rapidshare.com/files/24944113/Ko ... _No-51.mp3

Korvai As per post No: 56
http://rapidshare.com/files/24944147/Ko ... _No-56.mp3

Please get back to me for any doubts upto this.

J.Balaji

[drshrikaanth]

Thanks Balaji.

[Nick H]

I have my doubts that the details of mridangam fingering is useful/appropriate to this topic.

As a mridangam student one would have encountered all the strokes sometime before even having even heard of a korvais.

Added to which, there will be differences between different schools and different artists (or different renderings even) as to the translation between solakatu and fingers, or ornamentation added.

I say 'doubts' --- in the spirit of conversation; I am happy if others disagree with me...

[mridhangam]

Nick H I totally agree with you. There are absolutely differences in the way we utter the words or syllables and the way it is represented in Mridangam. Whereas the basic strokes are only 7 in mridangam and the combination it can produce are innumerable. What we utter is called "Konnakkol". That is y i mentioned in a different post that both my gurus Tanjore Ramadoss and Ramanathapuram M N Kandaswamy, did not allow me to play on the mridangam until and otherwise i got the three speed for a particular lesson orally. It is called "Konnupichu sollaradu" in tamil. The same difficulty we find in teaching children. when we say "tham" it can be played in two different ways. One is a combination of Dhin and Thom and another is just Chapu (both arai and full). That tham will differ according to the lesson and as per fingering combinations and end points. If the final syllable is ending in Tha (left hand) then the Tham will be played as a chaapu. If the final syllable is ending in Dhi (right hand) then the tham will be played as Dhin and thom combination. The fingering is also more of convenience. By this sentence i dont mean to say that dhin and thom combination cannot be played if the sollu is ending in Tha (left hand). It wont be natural and also immediately after tha we have to play dhin+thom combination and in third speed it wont look natural and also produce diffitculty in fingering.

Dr.Srikanth sir hope i have clarified on this point. Any further doubts you are most welcome.
Thank you
J.Balaji