Structuring a Korvai in the thani

pranavam · Post by **pranavam** » 14 Apr 2007, 04:42

mridhangam wrote:I am uploading all the four korvais mentioned above :

All MP3 files

1 ) http://rapidshare.com/files/23217012/Ko ... _No.12.mp3

2) http://rapidshare.com/files/23217043/Ko ... _no_26.mp3

3) http://rapidshare.com/files/23217075/ko ... o_33-1.mp3

4) http://rapidshare.com/files/23217257/ko ... o_33-2.mp3

With the same korvai demonstrated above there are other possibilities. About which i shall come tomorrow.

Mannarkoil J Balaji

Shri Balaji,

Can u please upload the above files in different media like gigasize/mediafire/mediamax/sendspace? Its very very difficult to download from rapidshare.

regards
Pranavam

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 14 Apr 2007, 05:36

To save Balaji some trouble, I have uploaded the audio files here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/9mpjyr

pranavam · Post by **pranavam** » 15 Apr 2007, 00:41

vasanthakokilam wrote:To save Balaji some trouble, I have uploaded the audio files here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/9mpjyr

Thank u very much

Pranavam

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 16 Apr 2007, 15:12

Balaji
Please post the demo of your poruttam kOrve. And if possible, play the kOrve I posted as well.

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 16 Apr 2007, 17:19

yes yes i shall do so .. i was not well for the last few days and couldnt do the recording ... shall up load shortly. by tonight or after 19th as i will be away to calicut to play for T.N.Krishnan Sir's violin solo. I have in mind but really didnt have the time. Sorry for the delay
J.Balaji

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 16 Apr 2007, 17:25

Hope you are feeling better Balaji. All the best for your Calicut trip. Take your time about the demo.

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 20 Apr 2007, 23:20

Dear Friends and rasikas

Thanks for a considerably long wait.
I am now uploading the korvai as per post no.113 with konnakkol also.

please give your feedback

http://www.rogepost.com/n/6944398073

Thanks
J.Balaji

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 20 Apr 2007, 23:29

Other Korvais with Konnakkol will follow one by one.

Now is the Korvai that i mentioned in Post No:12 with Konnakkol

Hope now it will be clear to rasikas. ?

http://www.rogepost.com/n/1076249489

J.Balaji

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 20 Apr 2007, 23:34

Korvai as per Post No.38 with Konnakkol follows now :

http://www.rogepost.com/n/2817035235

Rest I shall do after getting feedback from all of you
Thanks for now

J.Balaji

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Apr 2007, 07:51

Balaji:

Thanks a whole lot. Your playing the mridangam with Konnakkol in parallel is great and it clarified a few things for me. Also, it is easier this way to follow the notations. Thanks.

sathsangeethapriyan · Post by **sathsangeethapriyan** » 23 Apr 2007, 00:42

Are there korvais without the distinction of poorvanga madyanga and uthranga? Any examples?

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 23 Apr 2007, 19:38

Are there korvais without the distinction of poorvanga madyanga and uthranga? Any examples?

I dont think there are any. If i come across such korvais i shall let you know. But by simple logic any korvai within the rules that have been listed elsewhere in this article can be broken into these parts. If the korvai doesnt contain these then they are just Sarvalaghu Patterns or Meettu Patterns without any definite end as such. The rhythmic pattern without these three are just used as a take-off patterns for ultimate korvais.

Hope i have answered your query.

J.Balaji

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 24 Apr 2007, 22:30

Now the Korvai as per post no: 26 with Konnakkol

http://rapidshare.com/files/27703132/Ko ... nakkol.mp3

J.Balaji

pranavam · Post by **pranavam** » 25 Apr 2007, 05:02

mridhangam wrote:Dear Friends and rasikas

Thanks for a considerably long wait.
I am now uploading the korvai as per post no.113 with konnakkol also.

please give your feedback

http://www.rogepost.com/n/6944398073

Thanks
J.Balaji

Shri,Balaji,

I am unable to download this.Please re-upload this one.

Have a good summer

thanks
Pranavam

pranavam · Post by **pranavam** » 25 Apr 2007, 05:04

mridhangam wrote:Now the Korvai as per post no: 26 with Konnakkol

http://rapidshare.com/files/27703132/Ko ... nakkol.mp3

J.Balaji

Shri,Balaji,

Its very difficult to download from rapidshare.Please re-upload this in diff media.

Have a good summer

thanks
Pranavam

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 25 Apr 2007, 10:04

Sure i shall use different file uploaders from here onwards. At one shot i will do all the audio files listed above as a zip file and upload in a shortwhile until the konnakkol files ok
J.Balaji

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 25 Apr 2007, 16:51

I have uploaded a zip file containing all the korvais listed above at single shot.
btw y there is a lull here in this forum ...
Your participation would ensure my giving the best members. moreover instead of me assuming questions and trying to give you hypothetical answers it would be better if it originates from you.

http://www.rogepost.com/n/0816183482

Thanks for the encouragement
J.balaji

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 25 Apr 2007, 18:28

Thanks Balaji for the zip file. Is there a similar file for the korvais with konakkol?

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 06 May 2007, 19:43

mridhangam wrote:The actual logic lies in the fact that if you play 3 times 5 then the previous number 4 once 5 once and 6 once also makes the total to 15 (3 * 5). Not only this 3 + 5 + 7 and 2 + 5 + 8 and 1 + 5 + 9 also makes the total to 15. Within the 3 * 5 itself you can play any of thes combinations. we can slightly modify the above korvai in such a way that keeping the poorvanga constant we can keep on chaning the madyanga and utharanga in umpteen number of ways. (May be according to talaprastara we can arrive at the exact number of varieties for which our sbala can be of immense help).

For this particular example, the number of ways of arriving at a sum of 15 using 3 integers (using all the numbers from 1 upto 13) should be 91 assuming the order matters (ie 1 1 13 is different from 13 1 1). However, most of these 91 may be only of theoritical interest to percussionists as only very few might pass the aesthetics test.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 May 2007, 09:43

And how many will pass the ThaDhiGhiNaThom test?

I have been entirely off-line for a week due to house-moving. Already I had a lot to catch up with in the thread --- but my interest is still here

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 09 May 2007, 10:41

Sorry for asking a basic qn - What is the ThaDhiGhiNaThom test?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 May 2007, 16:02

...well, I guess I just made up that piece of terminology!

But the 5-count phrase, Tha Dhi Ghi Na Thom is obligatory.

Of course, it can be padded to six, seven, eight or nine for its tisra, misra, chatusra and sankeerna incarnations

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 09 May 2007, 19:20

mridhangam wrote:Thadikitathom
thadikitathom
thadikitathom , , , (3 * 5)

changed to

thakadimi
thadikitathom
thadee, kitathom , , , (4+5+6)

Nick,
This is the change that Balaji sir has done where 15 counts is expressed as 3*5 in the first variation and 4+5+6 in the 2nd variation. This sum of 15 can be done in 91 ways if there are no further constraints. Can you explain the tadiginathom restriction wrt this variation? The original Korvai written by Balaji sir is post #33

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 May 2007, 20:43

No, I can't ---- so I'm probably wrong!

Or talking at cross purposes...

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 11 May 2007, 21:55

mridhangam wrote:Korvai as per Post No.38 with Konnakkol follows now :

http://www.rogepost.com/n/2817035235

Rest I shall do after getting feedback from all of you
Thanks for now

J.Balaji

Hi Balaji

Could you re-upload your mridangam+konnakol? Your post seems to have expired and I did not see it in time.

-Thenpaanan

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 May 2007, 09:27

Let me save some trouble for our Mridangam teacher...Here you go Thenpaanan

http://www.sendspace.com/file/g2oynm

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 14 May 2007, 17:39

vasanthakokilam wrote:Let me save some trouble for our Mridangam teacher...Here you go Thenpaanan

http://www.sendspace.com/file/g2oynm

Thanks, Vasanthakokilam!

-Thenpaanan

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 14 May 2007, 22:04

Further audio files i hv to upload. due to professional commitments i am not able to do .. i shall do shortly about the different types of korvai mentioned in earlier posts.
sorry for the delay in teaching further
J.Balaji

ghatamghatam · Post by **ghatamghatam** » 24 Apr 2008, 10:36

Namaskaram Everyone
Im a very new member to Rasikas and I was trying to access the mp3 links in this post and almost every one of them come back as expired or not found, any help !!!:(

Nandakj · Post by **Nandakj** » 04 Jul 2008, 15:39

Shri.Balaji

can you pl. give a description of the Thanjavur and Pudukottai Banis - Salient features, differnces etc.
Nandakj.

brs · Post by **brs** » 05 Nov 2008, 01:58

mridhangam,
when a korvai is played,does the basic pattern that is played thrice usually have to symmetrical (as in the same pattern being played thrice or it can even be 3 different patterns ? ) If its different, wouldn't it be confusing for the main artist to identify where to start?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 05 Nov 2008, 15:13

Do you mean the pattern of the entire korvai?

--- well, it must be the same korvai, of course, but there are complex ways, eg different nadais, in which it can be changed

Do you mean the Tha Dhi Ghi Na Thom repeated pattern at the end of korvais?

--- it can be changed in ways that 'make sense', like having 7 beats, then 6 beats then 5, instead of 6 each time, or it can be the same calculation, but played with faster fingering and more ornamentation. The artists will follow; some of us audience members may get lost!

Changes according to calculation will be regular; from the first and second, the third will be predictable.

My teacher says: one should never play anything in the thani which the main artist cannot understand and keep talam to. Doing so tends to result in them not asking you to play for them again!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 06 Nov 2008, 11:52

Doing so tends to result in them not asking you to play for them again!

Good enough reason indeed.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 06 Nov 2008, 15:18

Yes even UKS said this..."appdiyalaan vaasichaa pottukamaattaa!"

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 07 Nov 2008, 03:38

Right. Another variation in a ligher vain is 'Appadiyellam vaasichaa namakku mangalam vaasichuduva'

( roughly, if we play complicated stuff, they will play mangalam for us.. meaning they would not want us back )

kadalkkara · Post by **kadalkkara** » 07 Nov 2008, 11:47

Hello,

I'm a new member to Rasikas. I really liked this thread very much. But to understand fully, I was trying to access the mp3 links in this post and all of them are expired or not found. Would it be possible to upload them again? I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 16 Nov 2008, 21:10

I'd like to second Kadalkkara's request. This is a fascinating "Thaniavarthanam 101 " thread, but without the audio samples, it is very hard to follow. Can the original poster Mridangam or anyone who happened to download these at that time and still has them please upload them somewhere again (Ideally, to a more permanent place like sangeethamshare.org. Alternatively, I would be delighted to provide space on shrutilaya.org, our NY Music Sabha, a non profit and non commercial organization).

Thanks
Sreenadh Jonnavithula

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Nov 2008, 22:55

Here are two sets of files which should cover most if not all the mp3 files uploaded by Sri. Balaji.

With respect to uploading them to a more permanent place, I will let Balaji decide.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/l4gtzo ( Korvai )

http://www.sendspace.com/file/wd4ore ( korvai with Konnakkol )

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 17 Nov 2008, 10:19

Thank you so much, Vasanthakokilam. I am trying to listen and match it against the posts, but as you observed in one of the early posts, it is not easy

- Sreenadh

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Nov 2008, 11:34

Sreenadh, work with the konnakkol ones first. I am sure you will persist with it, the pay off is really good. Balaji will answer our questions if any, as he has done with great enthusiasm before. This thread has been in suspended animation since interest has gone down a bit.

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 20 Nov 2008, 20:13

Interest is still there. i m wiling to answer the questions as always and ready for ur questions. unfortunately it was a one time affair recording them and uploading. hence they r not available with me .. if any of the other members still hv them pls do it.

J.Balaji

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 17 Jan 2009, 04:23

nick H wrote:For students and onlookers (I think I'm an onlooker these days) it is important that the difference between Tha Dhi Ghi Na Thom and Tha Ka Tha Ki ta be, literally, spelt out. One is an appropriate korvai pattern, the other is not.

Are there "tha dhi gi Na thom" patterns and "tha ka tha ki ta" patterns in swarams too? I mean, something like a "ga ri sa ni da" will be a "tha dhi gi Na thom" but a "pa ma ri ga ri" will be a "tha ka tha ki ta"? Is that why people construct their korvais with the same "ga ri sa ni da" every time?

I guess to make out what kind of mridhangam pattern will correspond to a certain swara phrase, you should see what a mridhangam accompaniment plays as the phrase is sung. Is that correct?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 17 Jan 2009, 15:28

As far as I can tell (subject to my experience, that is). the korvais used by vocalists and instrumentalists follow exactly the same principles as those used by percussionists, although they are often short and simple, unless the performer is particularly into laya calculations.

I have heard, on a recording, BMK, taking the finishing lines of the previous swaras and combining them into the korvais at the end of the last swara. Masterful and beautiful! Maybe others do this too and I failed to notice. In fact I think I listened to that recording several times before realising.

glenn rogers · Post by **glenn rogers** » 24 Apr 2009, 13:53

I have just brought the book 'Korvais made easy' I don't understand some of the terminology so to understand the tablesand math is a little difficult. I have learnt some konnokol and know quite a few korvais already. Is there someone who could write out a simple korvai and then relate it to the numbers in the book for example page 68 below or any other korvai Thankyou Glenn rogers from Perth Australia
TH BS SS AS PL
8 132 192 60 2

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Apr 2009, 14:46

I think the word "easy" is for the person who is already a mridangam vidwan!

--- Rather like a set of log tables (in the days before calculators) was a simple and invaluable tool to the mathematician, but meant almost nothing to me.

I can see that it is quite wonderful --- giving the number of counts for krovais, even of different nadai combinations with the korvai, for different samum in any tala. Understanding how to use the tables would be only a start; composing the korvai itself is the next hurdle.

Hmmm.... I think I'll give my copy to my guruji!

edpias · Post by **edpias** » 06 Jun 2009, 01:57

Hello, I know this question is maybe off the topic, but I am hoping someone can help. I have been studying the North Indian pakhawaj for over 10 years, and about a year ago I became very interested in kanjira. Are there any recordings of the great kanjira players from years past available? Either solo or accompaniment?

Thank you.

nlvraghavendra · Post by **nlvraghavendra** » 04 Aug 2009, 21:32

Hello Edpias!

I can tell you that Late. Shri. Harishankar is one of the stalwarts in Kanjira. He is a pioneer in Kanjira. Just check it out in youtube with his name.

NLV

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 29 Sep 2013, 07:33

The recent thread on the iOS based mridangam instrument by member Sridhar Rajagopal led me to revisit this great thread ( http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22000).

As a few people had written in this thread, the audio files uploaded by Sri. Balaji are not accessible anymore. I had uploaded the set a couple of times to this thread from my archive. Now I can not easily locate my own copies.

Can someone who has all the files, please upload them to a more permanent place like dropbox or archive.org and post a link. That will be awesome. This thread is one of our 'all star' threads figuring Mridangist Sri. Mannarkoil J Balaji's educational and explanatory postings on the construction of Korvai and Mohra. His writings are that much more useful and educational with his audio files.

Thanks.

srinpraveen · Post by **srinpraveen** » 04 Dec 2013, 05:02

I second with vasanthakokilam. It would be great if someone re-uploads the explanatory files to a more permanent place and post the links back on this thread.

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 11 May 2016, 20:43

Recently for practitioners of Percussion instruments and also for vocalists i have made an easy chart with jaati and kaarvai legends for practising.

Please email me at mridhangam@me.com for the chart which would be a word file.

Mannarkoil Balaji

rasikas.org

Structuring a Korvai in the thani

Re: Structuring a Korvai in the thani

Re: Structuring a Korvai in the thani

Re: Structuring a Korvai in the thani