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my new veena invention!

Ideas and innovations in Indian classical music
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baradu2
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Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 09:37

my new veena invention!

Post by baradu2 » 11 Jan 2015, 00:25

Dear all,
please find below, the link to the article on New Indian Express on my new Veena invention.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/ ... 608352.ece

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10803
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by vasanthakokilam » 11 Jan 2015, 01:41

Baradwaj, congratulations. Explain some more if you can, there is no limitation of space here! With pictures of assembly and disassembly and more importantly the sound. An A/B test with the same song played the same way on the regular veena vs this one and see if we can tell the difference.

Nick H
Posts: 8366
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by Nick H » 11 Jan 2015, 12:06

Yes please... pictures!

I've seen you play only once so far (and very excellent it was). That was at the Musiri House, within recent months. That was an ordinary, traditional veena, I think?

Rsachi
Posts: 4973
Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54
Location: Bangalore

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by Rsachi » 11 Jan 2015, 20:35

Bharadwaj,
Congratulations on your innovation! As a committed vainika, your innovation deserves attention and encouragement. In that direction:
Here is a list of questions as an interview. Kindly respond with words, pictures, sound clips, videos as you please. If we do this well, this will serve your cause very well :)
1. What are the main limitations or "pain points" in the traditional veena design as faced by artistes?
2. How does this new design address them? One by one please.
3. What alterations are evident in terms of
A. Sound quality
B. Player comfort
C. Tuning
D. Stability of frets
E. Accuracy of fret placements
F. Tonal quality
G. Placement of Pickup
H. Performance without pickup in case of radio recording etc.
4. how is the construction process changed?
5. What is the detail of packaging for transportation?
6. Will this cost less than a comparable veena off the shelf? What is the source of the data please.
7. Can you please record with identical camera and mike (not pick-up) some sound clips and songs with your earlier veena and this and share?
8. Will this be available for purchase? When? How?
9. Any study done with sound quality spectral analysis of the two instruments?
10. Do you think this is patentable? How do you wish to go about it?

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by Nick H » 11 Jan 2015, 20:51

Do you think this is patentable? How do you wish to go about it?
One for the Getting it in Before Dad thread 8-) :twisted: 8-) :twisted:

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by rshankar » 11 Jan 2015, 21:57

Nick H wrote:One for the Getting it in Before Dad thread 8-) :twisted: 8-) :twisted:
et tu Nick?

baradu2
Posts: 34
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 09:37

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by baradu2 » 11 Jan 2015, 23:08

Vasanthakokilam sir and nick sir,
Yes surely I will post it in few more days to weeks. Some parts have gone for re-fabrication and I am waiting for it to get done asap.
Sachi sir,
yes all your doubts will surely be cleared!
Thanks a lot all for your immediate response and wishes.
Videos, phtots, assembly and dismantling method's demo and more informative stuff will follow shortly.
And yes I have already applied for patent! :D

Nick H
Posts: 8366
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by Nick H » 11 Jan 2015, 23:32

rshankar wrote:et tu Nick?
Well, yes... but I suddenly thought that this is a forum in-joke, which is a bit unfair in a newcomer's thread. Bharadwaj, please ignore my previous post. It is absolutely nothing to do with you or your family, although it touches on patents and Indian instruments. Just take no notice :oops:

vasanthakokilam
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by vasanthakokilam » 12 Jan 2015, 00:05

A bit of humor is fine as long as the focus is on the veena. But right, the clarification is good since people may not get the reference.

Baradwaj, didn't your grandfather make some adjustments to the veena to suit his incredible playing style? Just reminiscing. I am sure he is there to back you up.

uday_shankar
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by uday_shankar » 12 Jan 2015, 17:18

Baradu, already saw the article in your fb share. Congrats again ! May this design be universally adopted !

harimau
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Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by harimau » 13 Jan 2015, 11:51

For those who can't be bothered to read the article in The New Indian Express, here is the critical piece of it:

The germ of the idea was planted when Baradwaj was on his way for a concert in London, back in 2010. “I had to take the instrument along, and I found it very difficult. It is then that I took the decision to design the instrument such that it is easy enough for transportation,” he says. While that is the case for flights, in trains, he says the instrument, which is usually carried in a fibreglass box to prevent damage during the journey, had to be tied to one corner of the window and kept from rolling over. “But recently, I took my portable veena to Bengaluru for a concert in the Shatabdi, and I just had to keep it beside my seat in a guitar bag,” he says. How did Baradwaj manage to shrink the veena? “I realised that there was a lot of unused area in the instrument. Since the ‘speaking length’ was the only usable area, I made some functional and cosmetic changes, and played around with the length without compromising on that part. Also, I made the lower half of the resonator and the whole resting gourd removable pieces,” says Baradwaj, who also owns around eight rare veenas of his granddad which have gold and ivory work on them. While the normal veena is around seven kilograms, the portable veena is just around four, and takes far less time to manufacture. “I played eight concerts using the portable veena during the December Margazhi season. I have applied for a patent, so officially I can sell them now,” says Baradwaj. Besides the size, another significant change which Baradwaj brought to the normal Veena is replacing the wax which is used to make the fretboard, with thermoplastic. “In the past, wax was used so that the artistes could adjust the metal frets that rest on it by melting the wax a bit without relying on the veena maker. However, the limitations of using wax is that it cracks at low temperatures and melts at high temperatures. By using thermoplastic, I need not retune and readjust any fret. Once set onto its place, it stays fixed like a guitar fret,” he says. “That apart, machine heads or tuning pegs of my veena can be removed comfortably without damaging any part of the wooden veena, unlike in the normal veena,” he adds.

The resting gourd has been removable for ages. Walk into a store such as Sapthaswara and you will find resting gourds on display. Even to transport a veena from home to concert stage, most musicians unscrew the resting gourd as such an act will prevent the veena from lodging itself in a position in the vehicle due to jostling on the road from which it is difficult to retrieve it. Sapthaswara will also saw off the dragonhead and provide a screw attachment so it can be attached to the dandi for appearance's sake during the concert. They also will replace the biradai with guitar pegs so that the strings can be tensioned using the pegs but the biradais can be removed for transportation but put in place so the veena looks traditional during concert appearances.

Smt Padmavathy Ananthagopalan had a couple of veenas made in which the resonator was sliced in half and could be assembled as needed. That veena is a baby veena being smaller than the normal length one.

I know at least for the last two years, if not more, some stores offer to fix the frets with a more stable compound than wax and guarantee the setting for 7 years.

So, what exactly is the invention?

I know anything can be patented. After all, Apple got a patent for arranging the square buttons on its iPhone screen in neat rows and columns, as if that was an original invention and as if people haven't been doing it for ages . (Take a courtroom. How are the chairs for the audience arranged?)

If a patent is indeed granted for this so-called invention, it would be on the basis of first filed and not first invented.

After all, Alexander Graham Bell got the patent for the telephone though Elisha Gray had the better claim.

PS. As someone who grew up on mainframe computers and who had to put up with claims of breathtaking wonderful discoveries by minicomputer folks and later the personal computer folks, I can only think of a 12-year-old boy running up to his dad and saying, "Dad, I have discovered a wonderful thing and it is called sax". (Well, sax is about as close as I can get without getting censored and since this is a music-related forum, sax is as good a substitute as any. <edited by mod>).

Rsachi
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Location: Bangalore

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by Rsachi » 13 Jan 2015, 14:48

Harimau,
Your inputs are as always useful. However if Bharadwaj has innovated something with several improvements altogether and it is better implemented for reliability and quality, I would consider it an achievement.

baradu2
Posts: 34
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 09:37

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by baradu2 » 13 Jan 2015, 21:11

@harimau, patience my friend! you will know when I release it. :)

harimau
Posts: 1459
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by harimau » 16 Jan 2015, 06:38

Rsachi wrote:Harimau,
Your inputs are as always useful. However if Bharadwaj has innovated something with several improvements altogether and it is better implemented for reliability and quality, I would consider it an achievement.
In the Veena Utsavam held in Narada Gana Saba mini-hall in September/October 2013 Sri B Sivakumar of Trichy and his student played with veenas that could fit inside guitar cases. The kudam (resonator) did not have the usual large rounded shape but was flattened at the bottom much like you see in the portable (in the sense that they can fit inside a guitar case and are allowed as carry-on baggage inside aircraft) versions of tamburas. You can see his veena in https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9p31NderzwQ. The audio is probably better in https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3OjooJZV7QA for you to judge the nadham of the veena.

As to the substitute for wax for the fretboard that is used by companies such as Sapthaswara one musician missed his airline connection and his veena spent close to 30 hours in an airport in the Middle East where the ambient temperature was 105 degrees Fahrenheit. The veena stayed in perfect tune when it was used a day later in the temperate climate of Europe and remains so now two years later.

Also, veena makers in Bobbili have in much older times had designed even a removable fretboard for the veena, though why someone would want to remove the fretboard from the dandi is not clear to me.

What we may see is improvements in the design of the veena. Invention seems to be the wrong word here particularly when so much prior art can be documented.
Last edited by harimau on 16 Jan 2015, 07:01, edited 2 times in total.

harimau
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Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by harimau » 16 Jan 2015, 06:49

uday_shankar wrote:Baradu, already saw the article in your fb share. Congrats again ! May this design be universally adopted !
Isn't the el nuevo chitraveena of Sri Ravikiran (by this I mean the instrument he takes abroad) the inspiration for the veena that Trichy Sivakumar uses?

I should ask Sri Sivakumar what he calls his veena. I think we have already got a Madhuraveena (B Kannan) and a Mohanaveena (Vishwa Mohan Bhat).

Unfortunately for Sri Sivakumar, the name rudraveena is already taken. He may have to settle for Sankaraveena or Sivaveena. :D

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by Nick H » 16 Jan 2015, 14:58

I am suspicious of this thing of rushing to patent stuff. What is the reason?

--- to launch a product as a profit-making venture in which an inventor justly receives profit from his ideas

--- to prevent somebody else "stealing" the idea and doing the same, while the inventor starves

--- to altruistically ensure that an idea is available to all in the future, with no intent to make profit, but preventing somebody else stealing, etc, as per previous, and restricting the usage.

Much of the world sees the patent system as broken. How can rounded corners be patented? How can doing something that was developed half a century ago, but with a different name (which could have been "patented" by the builders of aeons ago) be patentable? How, coming closer to home, can a mere detail in the fixing mechanism of a centuries-old idea of stretching skin over wood, let alone "patenting" the whole damn thing, be "patentable." To most of us who are not lawyers, patent agents or dads, doing the same thing in a different way should probably not be patentable, unless it is an entirely different way such as producing the sound of a plucked string electronically rather than, err... plucking a string

There is a myth that, for some reason, a ruler took his sword and clove into two the mridangam of one of his court musicians. The musician then immediately patented the tabla. Until that time, Indian musical instruments had been made and developed according to Open Source principles, with all developments available to all. Close examination of ancient carvings may yet reveal formerly unseen open-source-licence inscriptions. (It goes without saying that India invented open-source licensing)

VK RAMAN
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Re: my new veena invention!

Post by VK RAMAN » 16 Jan 2015, 20:12

I have seen in trade shows so many japanese and chinese photographers taking pictures of equipments at so many different angles; understand the purpose, go back to their country, come back with their version of equipment and market it at a lower cost without infringing on patents of others; so the terminology invention is very loosely stated and misinterpreted.

pvijay
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007, 04:09

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by pvijay » 03 Sep 2016, 21:43

Is this Veena available for purchase yet.

baradu2
Posts: 34
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 09:37

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by baradu2 » 07 Jul 2017, 13:46

pvijay wrote:
03 Sep 2016, 21:43
Is this Veena available for purchase yet.
I apologise for the late response. Please refer to my website http://ndmantra.weebly.com/sarasvitar.html for more information and the adjacent window for information on prices.
Please do email me at [email protected] for further details if necessary.
Thanks for your interest.

pvijay
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007, 04:09

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by pvijay » 09 Jul 2017, 04:03

Thanks.

Sachi_R
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Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by Sachi_R » 09 Jul 2017, 16:49

Baradu,. Want to hear the sounds of the sarasvitar. Pl. share.
Thanks

baradu2
Posts: 34
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 09:37

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by baradu2 » 09 Jul 2017, 17:51

https://youtu.be/WElpYRGE_ME. Link as requested. 😁

thanjavooran
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Re: my new veena invention!

Post by thanjavooran » 09 Jul 2017, 19:01

Baradu,
Excellent ! Thanks for sharing.
With wishes,
Thanjavooran
09 07 2017

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