Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Ideas and innovations in Indian classical music
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saikiran
Posts: 13
Joined: 24 Nov 2010, 15:32

Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by saikiran »

I welcome all to discuss the modern trends in carnatic music that is both good as well as bad for it..

I wish to know about all major trends from you all....

saikiran
Posts: 13
Joined: 24 Nov 2010, 15:32

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by saikiran »

How many of us would back the idea of usage of mikes on concerts? This is definitely a modern trend. Our previous generation singers never had the comfort of using mikes. I do agree the fact that these days concerts are attended by thousands in huge sabhas but even during olden days though there was no sabha culture singers used to perform in front of thousands and all used to audible to all with crystal clarity.

It only goes to highlight that these days concerts are not listened to carefully and beacuse of too much of noise in sabhas singers are forced to use mikes.

mankuthimma
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by mankuthimma »

You could be a bit more specific about generations and time lines and what you consider as modern.
Singing to thousands with crystal clarity in the past ? - I doubt it . Certainly things have changed but the first rule would be to cut back on possible exaggerations .
Looking for more inputs.

saikiran
Posts: 13
Joined: 24 Nov 2010, 15:32

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by saikiran »

mankuthimma
Please add clarity to your question. When you referred to singing to thousands with crystal clarity in the past, were you doubting presence of thousands during concerts or were you doubting clarity? Who is creating rules for whom? Where was exaggeration at all? Clearely clarity is missing in your thoughts. Please try to be more specific....

My appeal is to have constructive debate. rasikas.org seems to be becoming too destructive...

karthikbala
Posts: 219
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 09:58

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by karthikbala »

There is no physical or technical problem in the human voice being projected with clarity to thousands of listeners with perfect clarity.
Opera singers and public speakers have been doing it for centuries. Even today mikes are not used in opera houses (often double the size of Narada Gana Sabha). Even softly sung pianissimi can carry very well. It is a matter of proper voice production, not lung power or exertion.
I have no idea of mikeless kutcheris of the past, as I was not in existence... One can get an idea nowadays when the power fails during a performance. I have found Nithyashree Mahadevan and K.J.Yesudoss audible halfway across the house (the violin was not). On one occasion, the singer was not audible even in the third row where I was sitting!
For the very first concert of Bharatiya Sangeeta Vaibhavam Trust in Thiruvanmiyur, we had to hold it mikeless as amplification was not permitted at the venue. It was well received by the audience.

mankuthimma
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by mankuthimma »

Saikiran .
Sorry . Came in here by Mistake . I have simply no desire to destroy anything , or ask questions for the sake of asking .
I fully agree with you and I do not back the use of trend of using mikes in a concert . Being a young chap I can hardly say that I know much about how things were in the previous generation when singers never had the comfort of using mikes.

I must have missed the thousands in carnatic Concerts in my present time , possibly because I sit with my eyes closed most of the time .
Your guess that singers are forced to use mikes these days because of too much noise in the sabhas is as good as my guess.

It has been a couple of years since I was privy to some rule- making in this rasikas.org . Mercifully that is behind me .
Hope my specific answer was OK .Bye .

VK RAMAN
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Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by VK RAMAN »

mankuthimma - for saikiran it is only his 6th post! growing pain

arunk
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Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by arunk »

I will the lone piper and pipe in that I think mike is actually a good thing for carnatic music from audio fidelity perspective.

First a disclaimer: From my own perspective, I have no undue attachment to "way things were" because "that's how it was and hence it is always better to be how it used to be".

So regarding "mikeless temple settings", beyond the nostalgic value, I am skeptical it has the potential to satisfy the audio fidelity needs of a wide range of audience, that a miked environment potentially can. And I do guess that even with the complaints of miked environments, more often than not the audio fidelity of miked settings far exceed that of most mikeless settings (barring very small chamber settings). This is certainly a wager since I have not experienced the olden day mikeless settings, but why do I make it?

Because IMO, reaching say 500 listeners such that all of them can get about the same volume and intensity/subtleness as per raga (from a powerful bhairavi vs. a subtle nilambari/sahana ) would be hard to impossible in a mikeless setting, unless you are in special acoustic halls. But I would wager that olden day temples with open air most certainly fall way way short the kind of acoustic environment needed for that ideal uniform clarity throughout the audience. They just dont have the same acoustic as the western old churches. That probably is why you high sruthi and full-throated stuff saw the olden day - to reach those big audiences in not-so-good acoustic setting. And that automatically set the trend those days (i.e. high sruthi, full throated).

Now, given my (our) current day inclinations particularly w.r.t subtle ragas (again think sahana, rithigowlai, devagandhari, nilambari), I would wager that most of us today would not find a subtle-raga delivered in high-sruthi + full-throated to be "that subtle". A possible litmus test would be the 1930's, 1940s recordings. If you like the 1930s, 1940s recordings after you discount the samskara that is nostalgia/yearning-of-eutopia-of-the-past ]:) ), you would like it. If you dont, you wont.

I dont like them (i.e. as much as later and today's recordnings/concerts). So I very much prefer the today's miked environment because it IMO allows for more flexibility. Of course a "bad mike setting" can make things quite bad, but that does not mean mike itself is the problem.

A small chamber setting with no mikes can be quite special and may the best. I experienced at Cleveland with Sowmya at an impromptu padam/javali concert. But I will bet that it wouldnt have felt the same for all if there were 500 people. If Sowmya had to sing for 500 people, I would also wager the subtlety and serenity I felt that day (with about 30 people) would not be there.

I dont want to speak for others and paint a broad-stroke, but I am tempted to declare this "mikeless is always better than miked" as a bunch of bull :D.

Arun

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by Nick H »

Arun, you have said it perfectly.

I'm guessing even more than you are, but I would suggest that the audoria where an un-mic-ed lone singer with acoustic accompaniment can reach thousands are very few worldwide. You mention church architecture, and I have only visited one or two rather small cathedrals, but isn't thousands rather a large number even for the larger ones?
How many of us would back the idea of usage of mikes on concerts?
I would.

That might surprise those who have heard me say exactly the opposite over the years, but hearing gets worse, for some, with age, and I now need that amplification. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

What I need, though, above all, is for the sound engineer to compensate for my hearing defficiency, not make it worse.

saikiran
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Joined: 24 Nov 2010, 15:32

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by saikiran »

Dear Mankuthimma,

Please do not consider my posts too personal. My intention is just to make the debate more constructive. You did not come here by mistake. We would love to have participants like you. I understand i was little too harsh.

I appeal once again to you, not to leave the debate and the room but to become more participative and gain more from these arguments.

saikiran
Posts: 13
Joined: 24 Nov 2010, 15:32

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by saikiran »

Dear Nick,

Debate is about usage of mikes in carnatic music concerts and sabhas and not in churches. Let us not digress from the core argument.

saikiran
Posts: 13
Joined: 24 Nov 2010, 15:32

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by saikiran »

VKRAMAN- Well said..Iam in my budding stage as far as posting disucssions are concerned. Wish to grow like u.....

By the way thanks for counting my posts- I have not counted it myself.....

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by Nick H »

saikiran wrote:Dear Nick,

Debate is about usage of mikes in carnatic music concerts and sabhas and not in churches. Let us not digress from the core argument.
Please follow the conversation. You must note arun's comment on this to take it in context. The context is always carnatic music!

karthikbala
Posts: 219
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 09:58

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by karthikbala »

Nick H wrote:...but I would suggest that the audoria where an un-mic-ed lone singer with acoustic accompaniment can reach thousands are very few worldwide. You mention church architecture, and I have only visited one or two rather small cathedrals, but isn't thousands rather a large number even for the larger ones? ...
Not really; it is true for every opera house, even the modern ones built post-war (or rebuilt after being bombed out). Of course, each one has its own features. New York's Met for instance has easily twice the capacity of Narada Gana Sabha (there are six tiers!). In some of the European houses like the Wiener Staatsoper, while you can barely see the stage from the highest tier, the sound carries beautifully!
Apologies for the digression; I do agree this may not be very germane to the CM context.
I also feel that, given the existence of miking, it is more relevant for todays singers to learn how to use it effectively.

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by Nick H »

Amazing. The odd thing is that I think I used to know that --- and have become brainwashed by the doctrine of microphone.

saikiran
Posts: 13
Joined: 24 Nov 2010, 15:32

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by saikiran »

Dear Mates,
I think we have had enough on usage of mikes. Let us get on to someting else.

One clear trend in carnatic music is swara singing for almost every song. How good is this trend? As far as my understanding goes yester year singers used to show their ability in mano dharma sangeetham only when required and not inappropriately. But these days may be for the sake of show off, singers delve into swara singing for almost every song, some cases even for jaavalis and thillanas!!!

Let us discuss more about this...

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by Nick H »

saikiran wrote:As far as my understanding goes yester year singers used to show their ability in mano dharma sangeetham only when required and not inappropriately.
What is your understanding of required and appropriately? Feel free to answer in terms of not required and not appropriate!

I can't compare with before, I don't have that experience, but I certainly don't find there to be too much now. You know the song, "If I ruled the World"? ;) Well, if I did, then, when carnatic music came on the agenda I would decree that every item in a concert other than the lightest should have a decent-length alapana, with commensurate violin return, and every major item should also include neraval and swara. I'd also consider mandating RTP with extended swara singing.

But it would not be enough, of course, because it is not that these items are included that makes a concert great (there was a thread on rating concerts in this way once) but how they are performed. Recently I left a concert because my tick list might have been satisfied, but I found the neraval and swara singing to me more mecha-dharma than manodharma.

arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by arasi »

mecha-dharmA ;) I like your brand-new expression!
aka robotic by rote!

thenpaanan
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 19:45

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by thenpaanan »

saikiran wrote:
One clear trend in carnatic music is swara singing for almost every song. How good is this trend? As far as my understanding goes yester year singers used to show their ability in mano dharma sangeetham only when required and not inappropriately. But these days may be for the sake of show off, singers delve into swara singing for almost every song, some cases even for jaavalis and thillanas!!!
Whether this (swara singing for every _type_ of kriti) is a trend is itself a question. Recall that the current concert mode, which is essentially a string of kritis recited with adjoining alapana/neraval/swaras, is itself less than a hundred years old. Before that, most of the concert was filled with pallavis with very long (by contemporary standards) passages of neraval and swarakalpana. That, perhaps, is also the reason we saw a large set of percussion accompanists on the concert stage -- the extended neraval/swara singing gave scope for three even four percussionists, today it is rare to see more than one.

Recall, by way of a tangent, GNB's pointed and emphatic remark in his Sangeeta kalAnidhi speech that a "cutchEri' should be a performance, not a mere recital" which I interpret as an exhortation to keep up the amount of kalpanA (imagined) compared to the kalpita (pre-composed) music. Until then I had not realized the significance of the word "recital" which is how many WCM "concerts" are actually billed. To call a concert of predominantly kriti singing a "recital" may sound pejorative but it is accurate if one sticks to the conservative rule of not modifying kritis as learned even in the slightest, which is what some (but not all) schools of CM believe in.

-Then Paanan

arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by arasi »

Thenpaanan,
Yes, your explanation of GNB's differentiating between a recital and performance makes a lot of sense (recital, recitation...).

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by ragam-talam »

This thread sounds like a classroom session! Teacher, cane, the works...!
:grin:

saikiran
Posts: 13
Joined: 24 Nov 2010, 15:32

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by saikiran »

Raahgam- Thaanam,

Who is the teacher and who are the students? Why dont u take up the responsibility of a teaher, we will all be your students.... :clap:

Nick H
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Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by Nick H »

He might have but few lessons for us





(historical joke between r-t and me)

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by arasi »

r-t,
How do you like your new name? Should we add pallavi to it too? ;)
You know I'm kidding.
Corporal punishment is passe', I thought!
Sorry folks for getting away from the subject for a moment: are you going to be in Chennai sometime this month, r-t?

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by ragam-talam »

Arasi, cml plays the pallavi part (he mentions elsewhere). :~)

you coming for the rasikas bash? hopefully see you there.

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by ragam-talam »

Nick H wrote:(historical joke between r-t and me)
:D
>>He might have but few lessons for us
surely you meant 'a few' ?

Anyway, enuff digression... let the lessons continue!

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by Nick H »

Absolutely right, indeed I did.

But, as you just taught me one ...
Anyway, enuff digression
The trouble (if it is a trouble) is that this is a topic that we approach, in one way or another and under one heading or another, every few months ...

VK RAMAN
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Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by VK RAMAN »

Sangeetha Mahayuddham in Malayalam is an eye opener if fusion is going to be the ultimate result of modern trend

mkranthikiran
Posts: 10
Joined: 14 Feb 2010, 07:07

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by mkranthikiran »

How about the use of kanakku in manodharmam? In most of the vintage records, I hardly heard vidwans using calculations in swara prasthara. Their kalpana was purely based on sarvalaghu swaras. In the present day concerts, we can't find anyone singing swaras without calculations and korvais.

Isn't this a new trend?

Kiran Mudigonda

veeyens3
Posts: 424
Joined: 09 May 2010, 23:19

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by veeyens3 »

With due apologies to fellow rasikas, I would like for a moment to revert to mike less concerts.
Members have shared their views on mikeless concerts held in famous concert halls and churches both in India and abroad.I do not know many have heard about concerts held in“Gol Gumbus” in Bijapur According to Wilkipedia,this is actually a mausoleum containing a ruler of Adil Shahi dynasty.built in 17 century. This a rotunda spanning a diameter of nearly 140 ft and enclosing an area of more than18,000 sq.ft.Along the inner periphery of the dome runs a platform An unique feature of this structure is that even a small whisper along the plat form can be heard all over the platform I have personally experienced this by listening to the ticking of watch from a place on the round platform diametrically opposite. I was also told that sound gets reflected seven times.Is the carriage of sound waves along the periphery is total internal reflection, akin to total internal reflection in diamonds, which is the cause of the brilliant lustre in a 16 faceted diamond.I was also told musical concerts were held here when the artists performed from a platform over the grave My query is if the musician's voice is to be heard all over hall, will not the echo effect interfere with the original sound not to mention the beat effects from any two frequenciesI am eager to hear the comments of our members. May Sri Rama bless you all

Nick H
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Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by Nick H »

I recall such an experience. Not certain, but I think it was somewhere in Hyderabad? It was possible to stand by the edge of the structure and hear a whisper from the other side.

My thoughts are that the acoustics of a room may be engineered for different purposes. One that is designed to reveal the whispers of plotters is probably not ideal for the performance of a concert.

I think that the ideal concert venue would have no echo at all --- which just goes to show how ridiculous it is to add echo to a studio recording --- which is certainly possible.

veeyens3
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Joined: 09 May 2010, 23:19

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by veeyens3 »

It was formerly in erstwhile Bombay presidency and after linguistic reorganisation came into Karnataka

lochana
Posts: 1
Joined: 17 Feb 2011, 09:22

Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by lochana »

Hello, I have joined this forum recently. I need help from all of you for a survey I am conducting on mikeless concerts. I would like all of you to fill in the questionnaire & send it to me if possible. Thanks a lot.
Rasikas’ Questionairre
S.No Questions Answers
1 Have you heard mike less vocal concerts in olden days?
2 Was it for a small audience?
3 Was it in a closed hall?
4 Were the artistes seated on a raised dais?
5 Were the audience seated on the floor?
6 Was the distance between the artist & 1st row audience more than 10 feet?
7 Was the mridangam too loud?
8 Was the soft upa pakkavadyam like morching heard?
9 Were you able to make out the nuances in the music of the vocalist?
10 Were you able to make out the nuances in the music of the instrumentalists?
11 Have you heard an instrumental concert without Mike?
12 Were all the conditions similar with regards to mike & mike less concerts?
13 Have you heard the same artists with mike?
14 Was it in a closed hall?
15 If so, was it in an acoustically treated hall?
16 If open, was it a music concert, uninterrupted by temple / wedding sounds?
17 Were good quality mikes & PA systems used?
18 Did you like the sound quality produced?
19 Were you able to make out the nuances better?
20 Were softer instruments heard without being drowned by louder ones?
21 Do you feel mikes & good PA systems have improved listening quality?
22 Have you heard the same artists in an LP/EP/AIR/ TV ?
23 Do you feel the studio quality recording adds to the listening quality?
24 Do you feel the artists’ musical quality is enhanced with electronic media?
25 Do you feel manodharma is hindered in studio recording?
26 Do you feel short concerts cannot show the true quality of a musician?
27 Do you feel cassettes & CDs in a home theatre can replace live concerts?
28 Do you feel electronic aids result in unnatural tones & balance of sound?
29 Do you feel electronic media is a boon for Carnatic music?

Name:
Age:
Address
Phone:
Email: Any other comments on the back please.

thenpaanan
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Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by thenpaanan »

mkranthikiran wrote:How about the use of kanakku in manodharmam? In most of the vintage records, I hardly heard vidwans using calculations in swara prasthara. Their kalpana was purely based on sarvalaghu swaras. In the present day concerts, we can't find anyone singing swaras without calculations and korvais.

Isn't this a new trend?

Kiran Mudigonda
Maybe. Note that the vintage recordings that are available to us are only of a few vidwans. It is possible that kanakku swarams were sung by vidwans other than the ones for whom we have many recordings. For example, TK Rangachari sang extensive kanakkus and it is a fair assumption that he was part of an existing tradition of singing kanakku swaram. However we can probably infer that kanakku singing was not a popular/widespread practice. It is possible and likely that the audience demands have changed.


-Thenpaanan

msakella
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Re: Modern Trends in Carnatic Music

Post by msakella »

In general, any system usually starts by noble people basing on very noble ideas and high expectations to make it much useful to the society. But, in our country, due to the very highly self centred politicians or irrational conservatives or indisciplinarians or outnumbered inefficients, later on, gradually deteriorates in standards over years to come but called ‘Sampradaya’ and followed by many people innocently and ignorantly. But, due to the contaminated scenario, even the handful disciplinarians and efficients are also keeping quiet without properly guiding the youth just to get the fame as ‘uncontroversial-persons’. That is what presently happening now in our country which very badly effects every citizen, every walk of life and every facet of them among which our music is not an exception.

While there are many other facets also falling under these modern trends only two, utilisation of microphones and kanakku in the music-concerts, have been taken for discussion till now. In principle, being a professional-musician and music-teacher I do not find any thing wrong in their utilisation in the music concerts unless they are misused like all other things.

In our country we are used to conduct thousands of music concerts but not in the halls built only for conducting music-concerts where the artists may not need a microphone at all and, at the same time, the audience also keep quiet. But, in our halls microphones are much needed to avoid crying but not singing to reach the audience sitting far away from the artist. But, while the microphone is truly meant to increase only the sensitivity of music of the performing artist but not the volume of the voice or the instrument, unfortunately, in the present conditions, in the absence of a reliable operator with a sense of music, every artist on the dais is used to quarrel with the other to have the maximum volume of his own. Even in regard to our artists, many of our old artists are not that sensitive to feel about their music which was always brought out along WITH Shruti only but not IN Shruti. But, now, we can feel better to find the next generation far better not only in Shruti sense but in rhythmical abilities also even though our irrational conservatives moan about it as a modern trend.

Of course, in one way we must thank the microphone allowing the audience to chat each other even in the midst of the concert which is not possible in a mike-less concert. To speak the truth, the truly charming music naturally makes the audience spell-bound and keeps them attentive avoiding any chat.

In the same manner, even in respect of kanakku which is nothing but mathematics, most of the musicians and audience are ever ready to very heavily harp on ‘Sarvalaghu’ which, in fact, have soothing effect only on the audience but not followed precisely by many of the performing artists. Many are not aware that most of the performing artists are rendering ‘Sama-gati’ but not ‘Sarva-laghu’ at all and the audience, in the absence of proper knowledge, are taking it for ‘Sarva-laghu’. Being the fact, though very bitter, the performer who has deft command over the odd-gatis can only manage with the Tani of an able Mridangist and all others very conveniently hand over the charge of rendering Tala to the Violin-accompanist (if he/she shows any disinclination to do this he/she will not get another chance to accompany the same person) while the Mridangist starts his Tani thus making the accompanist scape-goat for his/her own incompetence. As a professional-violin-accompanist I had experienced hundreds of such incidents. Singing kanakku requires very high level concentration and practice to get through it and any kind of lack of them very badly affects the concert and the singer alike. That is why only the musicians who are used to be alert always in kanakku support kanakku and all others openly hate it. Also, that is why most of the undisciplined musicians are used to sing or play only the Purvanga of any Varna in two degrees of speed and skip to do the same in respect of Uttaranga of it but prefer to run away with a single speed as it involves some mathematical theorems. Mostly the defect lies upon the music-teachers who cannot manage with mathematics but successfully contribute their might in increasing the number of impotent disciples in music.

Once, when I was invited to act as Judge for the selection of candidates for the scholar-ships given by the Central-government to the kids of 14 years of age, I, at the first instance, have asked each and every candidate to render the Alankaras both in Ata-tala and Triputa-tala direct in the 3rd degree of speed. More than 90 per cent of the candidates failed to do so and, naturally, I have failed them. Then came the uproar from their respective teachers (cheaters) that the Judge should not ask such difficult questions and I have suggested them to make a collective complaint to the higher authorities concerned not to invite me later as a Judge. They did so earnestly and I was not invited later. That is the ability of most of our music-teachers (cheaters).

Recently, even when I had to conduct a work-shop on Svarakalpana to 10 or 12 disciples of a reputed Sangeeta Vidwan and teacher, among which each and every one is either an A-grade Artist of All India Radio or a concert-artist or both, to my surprise, each and everybody successfully failed to repeat a very-basic-mathematical-exercise. That is the efficiency and reliability of most of our music-teachers (cheaters). I sincerely bow down to the true-music-teacher who follows the qualitative (but not quantitative) method of teaching music in shaping the aspirants knowledgeable and properly initiates the aspirants sing intricate mathematical Svarakalpana along with brief Ragalapana even before the completion of learning Varnas. Even though this qualitative method of teaching music also falls under the ‘modern trends’ the irrational conservatives may feel bad for their inability either to bring out more effective method in teaching than mine making the process of teaching ‘time-bound and result-oriented” or to condemn my methods.

Just like compelling our kids to learn the mathematical tables by their heart even without knowing the implications of them, unless our kids are properly trained and groomed to deal with the odd-gatis of our music, we cannot produce potents in music which is not possible to each and every music-teacher. That is why, until recently, all our great experts very conveniently avoided prescribing to render both the Purvanga and Uttaranga of a Varna @ 4, 6 & 8-units in any of the music-syllabi or for the scholar-ships or Radio-auditions or for the posts of music-teachers. But, recently, this has been included in some of the music-syllabi. Even if some irrational conservatives moan about this taking it as a modern trend, I very much doubt, whether this has been included in the schemes of examination and truthfully asked by the efficient examiners and adjudged by them. amsharma

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