Sustainability of technique

Ideas and innovations in Indian classical music
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TheListener
Posts: 28
Joined: 03 Feb 2012, 04:52

Sustainability of technique

Post by TheListener »

Uday,

You mentioned in a post in the Sri N.Ramani obituary thread about technique sustainability.
It will be great if you can elaborate on these:
1. How Sri Ramani's flute playing technique is more sustainable compared to others. What are the aspects that contribute to this?
2. You also mentioned how TNK style is more sustainable compared to Lalgudi's & MSG's. What aspects of the techniques contribute to them being sustainable vs not.

Again, like Uday himself mentioned, this topic is not to rake up any controversy, but just for understanding purpose only. Let's please keep it that way.

msakella
Posts: 2127
Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by msakella »

This kind of sustenance mostly depends upon the depth of knowledge, environmental influence and taste of the individual and differs from person to person. amsharma

SrinathK
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Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by SrinathK »

I think what @uday_shankar is talking about is best demonstrated by 84 year old (young) Nathan Milstein in his LAST recorded concert -- in full flow this piece is a monster (it is intended to depict a "frenzy") :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaNYFMNQ1MU

Leaving aside the fact that good health at that age is often quite the luck of the draw, what contributes to his longevity is the efficiency of his technique and the absolute minimal strain he puts on his body and that adds up over the years.

For this one can also take a look at ARI, MMI, MS, Brinda, Santhanam as examples in CM. Or for tennis fans, Roger Federer.

arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by arasi »

Srinath,
Fantastic frenzy! What a sample you have brought for sustainability!

Standing there and playing as if he is half his age.

That Sruti sErtal (tuning) moment should be seen by all instrumentalists for its swiftness and beauty :)

I'm sure this was a rare one for him (happened because of all the frenzy?) !!

SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by SrinathK »

Milstein continued to play like that till his last concert. TNK mama has lost none of his tone or power or agility even when I heard him at 84 at the Academy. I think it was also reviewed up here. @arasi The whole recital is here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0sinsAWsXk (BTW this youtube user's channel is the greatest source of western violin collections on the internet). The last item in that is a Paganini caprice, who would have imagined being able to play THAT at 82?

The sad part of the story is that some time after this concert, Milstein suffered a fall in which he broke his hand and couldn't recover enough to play the violin again. He passed away 4 years later.

In this case, there is also the luck factor. MSG and LGJ didn't make it to 84. :cry: MSG as far as I have heard him had so much technique in reserve that I don't think he actually ever needed to overexert himself. Even in the mid 2000s I've heard him in sublime form live. For health reasons (including I believe a nasty fall that broke a leg) his playing for lack of a better phrasing, struggled (by the time I had heard him in c.2011), although he could still play mesmerizingly beautiful phrases at choice moments.

LGJ suffered a repetitive stress wear and tear problem in his hands that forced him to call it curtains on his accompanying career in his mid 50s, fortunately it didn't worsen that it affected his solo performances, but my ears would aver that his tone and articulation wasn't quite the same and he also had to slow down -- but genius he was, he was able to still find another dimension to his music and re-adapt his technique. That is the advantage of having a huge reservoir of capability beyond what you basically need for the music, you can fend off decline. However since 2000 he had fallen victim to strokes that weakened him severely. After that last one in 2006, it was something of a miracle and his sheer determination to play that he could even pick up that instrument again. He has himself stated in his biography that had he been aware of repetitive stress injuries, he might have practiced less and avoided overstraining his fingers. Whether that was really triggered by his technique (dubious), or whether some people's systems are just more prone to injury than others (and some athletes are more injury prone) can be debated.

To side track, PMI was also sidelined with arthritis in his last days. Cannot say again, some people are more prone to it than others.

Now TNK Mama is much more of an old school violinist compared to the other two -- he still plays on gut strings (which is why his tone is still the best, seriously, it's a lot better live than in any recording), he focuses more on tone, a relaxed but powerful bow arm (which was still just as strong the last time I heard him live at 84), with clarity of articulation and swarasthana shuddham with no unnecessary technical complexities while gamakas in his school are more minimalist as compared to MSG and Lalgudi. He is also fortunate to be in good health and greater spirits even at his age and we can only pray he will be able to keep doing it. I hope I am up to date as I haven't heard him in 2 years. Once I did point out that the secret is that TNK mama still has a lot of muscle in that bow arm of his -- it's the loss of muscle that's the cause of many middle age and old age issues....

Again, in the case of longevity, good technique and proper form, fitness levels, spirit, health, avoiding excesses where not necessary, instrumental setup, avoiding injuries and beyond a certain age, just plain old destiny are all factors.

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by arasi »

Thanks for your summation on studying these jAmbavAns.

TNK was ailing last year, I was told, but he's a survivor (in spirit as well). I see that he's going to play on Christmas day at the Academy this year too.

msakella
Posts: 2127
Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by msakella »

I have very keenly been studying and following these Jambavans as a Violinist right from 50s. As a professional and very critical Violinist and successful teacher at this age I have my own views in this respect. amsharma

kunthalavarali
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 01:30

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by kunthalavarali »

Another great artiste in the recent times who maintained top level presentation was Veena Kalpakam Swaminathan. She gave full length concerts well into her 80s. I am sure knowledgeable persons can throw light on her amazing technique that was evident till her last concert at the ripe old age of 89.

SrinathK
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Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by SrinathK »


rupavathi
Posts: 173
Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 08:44

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by rupavathi »

How come none of you armchair experts was in attendance to judge mama's muscle strength and bowing prowess last Sunday when he gave a stellar display at PS High School? :evil:

SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by SrinathK »

How come none of you armchair experts was in attendance to judge mama's muscle strength and bowing prowess last Sunday when he gave a stellar display at PS High School? :evil:
I could have, had you helped book my ticket to Chennai and back and graciously taken over my 12 hour work days in between. How come you didn't inform? Next time do announce when he performs up here anywhere in the NCR and I will be there. :twisted:

At the very least do inform up here if any future concert would be webcast. :mrgreen:

srikant1987
Posts: 2246
Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by srikant1987 »

I think that a bANi, especially in the context of instruments, includes technique as well as style. In my opinion, at least for the violin, technique is not to be formed with sustainability in mind: it needs to encompass the various possibilities afforded in the art form. There is very little space for sustainability once this limitation is imposed, at least on the violin.

There is SOME space, though, like moving higher notes from one string to the next. This is only sometimes a (musically uncompromising) choice. And depending on the context, staying on the string could be easier or moving over could be easier.
Or maintaining finger positions (attempting to articulate some notes with the little or ring finger) vs moving them around more often. Moving fingers consumes energy, but doesn't strain muscles as much, and maybe more sustainable -- though it is to be employed carefully, without altering the music.

Possibly on wind instruments, especially the flute, there is more space -- there's stuff like moving / shaking the head which Uday mentioned. I do not understand wind instruments well.

When it comes to style, there are many, many options for sustainability. An immediate example here is to use madhyamakAlam more. Both viLamba kAlam and durita kAlam can be straining in different ways.

rupavathi
Posts: 173
Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 08:44

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by rupavathi »

:twisted: @srinathk, if you didn't catch my drift, friend, just hark back to Dhanammal's famous words: "ipolaam sangeethattha patthi neraya PESARAALAAME"

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: Sustainability of technique

Post by uday_shankar »

@TheListener, sorry just saw this ! Looking through the posts, it seems like any points I might have tried to make have been made with characteristic clarity by SrinathK.

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