Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Jun 2006, 22:13

Yes folks!

If you listen to a lot of compositions in CM in the English Language you will not find it funny! I was used to the 'kripayaa paalaya' of svaati popularized by SSI in caarukEshi when sung by MKT in 'manmatha leelayai'. I had a bitter taste and a strange feeling though the scene in the movie was erotic and appropriate. The song became instantly popular among the masses since they could understand the meaning and relate to it while the 'bhakti geetam' was just a nice raga for them. Many of Sivan's compositions took a long time to get on to the concert stage since vidvaans found it strange to sing in Tamil while they were naturally used to the Trinity compositions. Were it not for the bold attempt by DKP even Bharathy would have been lost to the CM world! Then why decry any attempts in English. Now that is the only pathway to reach CM to our younger generations!

In fact the first use of English I heard was by MLV in the manipravalam rollicking nari kuRaththi song 'ayya saami' in the movie Or Iravu. I remembered her while composing this song. Also 'meena' mentions MLV was also an expert pianist and she would have attempted 'English verses' if they were made available in her time. Did she not do yeomen service to CM by populaizing Purandara?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 28 Jun 2006, 22:14

Singing CM with English lyrics is not without precedent - MS Subbulakshmi sang a hymn with English lyrics in her UN concert. The present composition by CML reminded me of that.

The song that MSS sung in the UN concert was not in CM. It was just like any other English song

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 28 Jun 2006, 22:53

The song that MSS sung in the UN concert was not in CM. It was just like any other English song

Yes and, the first time I heard it was hard to believe it was her voice!
It is all about singing western music in absolute pitches I guess.

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 28 Jun 2006, 22:59

I noticed again a double entendre here:
'turakapAkaSAsanEna' turaka uccaishrava tasya pati pAkashAsana indra tena
(the Lord of the excellent horse who is Indra (the one ruling from Indraprastha)

That would work, except that horse is usually referred to as "turaga" so it would involve a slight change.

I thought the Turks were referred to as turuShka in sanskrit!

Yes, turushka is the regular form. Even in CM we can recall the statement of Venkatamakhin regarding Kalyani, which he stated to be a low-quality raga that is popular among the "turushkas".

However turaka also exists in the Sanskrit vocabulary (and can be derived without difficulty). It is also used in other Indian languages.

let me also hope the invocation 'dAridryanivAraNEna' does become a fact for our folks in the sub continent

Yes, let us hope so. Manmohan is regarded as the architect of economic reforms resulting in the current 8+% growth rate.

Now I wait the mOhanamOhitamOhana raagam!

Will be uploaded soon.

SR

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 28 Jun 2006, 23:16

The song that MSS sung in the UN concert was not in CM. It was just like any other English song

Yes and, the first time I heard it was hard to believe it was her voice!
It is all about singing western music in absolute pitches I guess.

Yes but CML's presentation reminded me of that. Although the bhava of shanmukhapriya was underlying, the English lyrics "overwhelm" it and it starts to sound like any other "English" song. Nothing wrong with it, though!

SR

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Jun 2006, 01:38

Here we go in Tamil. First the lyrics (partially)

Inimai perukkum madhura isai muthalezhuththu
layaththuDan isai iNaithalaal athu un iDai ezhuththu
vinyaasam cheRintha kuralumE izhaithalaal
MLV enum peyar iNa^NgumE aNa^NginirkkE

madhura laya vinyasa MLV
mana mOhana maharANI mAthE, un peyar thaan....

Again my amateur attempt
http://rapidshare.de/files/24400295/Mad ... V.mp3.html

Now tell me whether you still want a Sanskrit version

The deal is if someone (meena are you there

) executes the following:

La musique etait la force de motivation.
Par consequent qui etait la toute premiere lettre.
Laya etait la source captivante
Par consequent qui est devenu sa deuxieme lettre
Vinyasa etait naturellement sa voix
MLV est ainsi le nom du choix

vinyasa MLV de laya de melodie ma dame !
vous etes la reine de ces derniers

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 29 Jun 2006, 01:44

CML,
I was just going to write-how about in Italian/spanish since they have vowel ending words like in Telugu. It might be a better option than English.
But French... I don't know

just downloading...will let you know.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Jun 2006, 02:05

MNS

any problem using SSI's
http://rapidshare.de/files/23954589/2._ ... a.mp3.html
for the Guru pourNima!

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 29 Jun 2006, 02:41

MNS

any problem using SSI's
http://rapidshare.de/files/23954589/2._ ... a.mp3.html
for the Guru pourNima!

Not at all. "gurulEka" seems to be the only popular krithi one hears. I am just taking Guru pourNima as an opportunity to learn some new compositions on the Guru. Didn't find many come up on a different thread when we were listing krithis on the Guru. There was also this beautuful bhajan rendered by Sumati (guru bina). I am awaiting Mysore vAsudEvAcharya's
Guru kripa lEka from Sri DRS. Also, with all the vAggEykArAs in this forum thought I might as well ask. DRS seems to have one to his credit. Waiting to hear that one.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 29 Jun 2006, 03:03

CML/MNS, how about "nArada gurusvAmi" in the majestic Durbar raga?

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 29 Jun 2006, 03:43

CML/MNS, how about "nArada gurusvAmi" in the majestic Durbar raga?

Thanks srkris. I haven't heard this krithi before. Found the lyrics at

http://www.geocities.com/promiserani2/c2588.html

Is there a version available on the net or one that can be posted?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 29 Jun 2006, 04:04

msn,
here's the link to the song by Santhanam
http://surasa.net/music/tyagaraja-archive/index2.php

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 29 Jun 2006, 04:57

Thanks Suji

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 29 Jun 2006, 06:00

[quote=""mnsriram""]

Also, with all the vAggEykArAs in this forum thought I might as well ask. DRS seems to have one to his credit. Waiting to hear that one.

[/quote]

I have presented two compositions on "gurus", but they are specific to my "gurus" and I would prefer to not alter the sahitya to make them more general. Others may have what you are looking for.

Best Wishes,
SR

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 29 Jun 2006, 08:45

A recording of the krti "manamohanena" has been upploaded (see relevant post on page 3).

SR

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 29 Jun 2006, 09:51

CML/MNS, how about "nArada gurusvAmi" in the majestic Durbar raga?

This kRti is specifically on RShi "nArada" and not a general kRti on gurus.

A link to a rendering by Vid||R.K.Srikantan

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/m4O ... As1NMvHdW/

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 29 Jun 2006, 11:37

Thanks DRS

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 29 Jun 2006, 11:55

A recording of the krti "manamohanena" has been upploaded (see relevant post on page 3).

SR

SR, very well presented.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Jun 2006, 22:51

Well done SR! Now keep it up with other fine compositions...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Jun 2006, 22:55

Dear MNS

I am sure you have found the song you are looking for. DRS could have composed in one of those rare Asampoorna Mela of MD. But he is currently verry busy engaged in taking care of the earth (PruthvI). I have whipped up a lyric which if you like you can try! The ideas are deep philosophical. Again I have chosen the raga not handled by the Trinity.
Here it is..

shrI gurubhyO namaH||

Raga Bagesri Mela 22) Kharaharapriya
aro SGMDNS' avaro S'NDMGMPGRS

brahmAnandam parama sukhadam kEvalam g~nAnamUrtim
dvandvAtItam gagana sad^Risham tatvamasyAti lakShyam|
Ekam nityam vimalamacalam sarva dhI sAkShibhUtam
bhAvAtItam triguNa rahitam satgurum tam namAmi||

pallavi

bhajarE gurucaraNam anisham
bhava sAgara taraNam mAnasa

Anupallavi

asatO sat gamayati nityam
tamasO jyOtir yaccati satyam
m^RityOr am^Ritam dAsyati niyatam
smara smara EtAn vAram vAram

caraNam

nAsti gurorvina tatvam param
nAsti pUjA param gurvArAdhanam
nAsti tIrtham param pAdOdakam
gururEva jagatI shivam pratyakSham

Here is my rendering (obviously like my Guru (my age too)I can't reach the high octave

http://rapidshare.de/files/24482224/Bha ... i.mp3.html

I will post the meaning separately later....

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 29 Jun 2006, 23:16

Very nice CML!
It does have a "light music" feel...with HM tilt
You did well at higher octave..
now waiting for the meaning.

BTW, I did not find any difference in the English and Tamil pallavi on MLV

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Jun 2006, 23:52

The shlokam is from the 'gurugIta' of the skanda purANam. The generic meaning is

'I prostrate to the sat guru who is in the form of brahmaananda, who gives ultimate bliss, who is the form of knowledge, who is beyond duality, like the firmament, the goal of the mahavakyas 'tat tvam asi' etc, unique, eternal, pure, immobile, witness of the collective intellect, one beyond the reach of mental concepts and free of the three guNas.'

The sanskrit of the lyric is very simple indeed and I have resolved the sandhis for ease of singing. I have imbedded the three esoteric invocations from the brihadAraNya upaniShad which can be discussed at the Language thread if there is any interest so that we do not interrupt the music discussions here.

Pallavi

Oh Man! Worship the feet of Guru (divine preceptor) constantly. He is the means of crossing over the ocean of birth (samsara).

Anupllavi

He always leads (you) from untruth to Truth
He truly fetches Light (dawn of gn~aana) into Darkness (avidyA/ignorance)
He most certainly will get you Immortality from Death
Meditate on these facts again and again.

CharaNam

There is no 'Truth' beyond Guru (Truth = brahmam, he is the embodiment of brahmam)
There is no worship beyond the worship of Guru
There is no holy water other than the water washed off his feet
Guru indeed is the 'concrete' shiva (supreme God) on this universe.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 30 Jun 2006, 00:08

suji

I expected you to say that. CM is independent of the language. But as we internalize it we look at the meaning and then create the 'mood' that goes with it. BMK has rendered Thyagaraja kritis in Tamil, but nobody ever sings them though the music is exactly the same. My point is that we need original compositions in other languages (english, italian, japanese..etc.,) set to ragas that are innovative but still within the grammar of CM. It is indeed a challenge but worth an 'experiment'. Somehow I find the fusion music (though Ravikiran is sparkling) to be moving away from CM!

Bagesri is the same in CM and HM. It is a raga better handled by the HM folks. It deserves more attention in CM other than short snippets in ragamalikas

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Jun 2006, 00:20

Nice, CML. Bhakthi soaked..

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 30 Jun 2006, 00:30

CML,
What you say gives me some hope of composing

The only language I have written poems is in English. I have been thinking of one in Bowli..but I don't have enough skills to compose. If you are interested I can send it to you.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Jun 2006, 00:36

On the MLV song in English and Tamil, Tamil sounded more natural than English. Even in Tamil, when you sing MLV, that sounds odd. So I am so conditioned not to associate CM and English, I suppose.

I agree CM should be able to exist with English lyrics. At a technical lyrical level, the so called 'vowel movement'

is different in English, may be it can be smoothed over. The singer-songwriters who write songs in English, consider these things: a) It is too easy to write cheesy lyrics, so they fight with that b) Pick words with good vowel placements so music can be fitted with the emotional expression in tact c) Less words the better..CM songs, especially the Tamil ones, tend to be rich in word count..( Saint Thyagaraja is an exception )

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 30 Jun 2006, 01:41

By all means Suji
send it to me
cmlover100@yahoo.ca

The more we try we 'll sure succeed!

I agree with you VK
We have to get that magic wordings that will work. I can easily do it in Sanskrit and Tamil but in English the mind automatically shifts gears. But let us give it a try!

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 30 Jun 2006, 14:27

Dear MNS

I am sure you have found the song you are looking for. DRS could have composed in one of those rare Asampoorna Mela of MD. But he is currently verry busy engaged in taking care of the earth (PruthvI). I have whipped up a lyric which if you like you can try! The ideas are deep philosophical. Again I have chosen the raga not handled by the Trinity.
Here it is..

shrI gurubhyO namaH||

Thank you very much CML. I am sorry I somehow missed this post and only saw it now. I am unable to download this right now but will listen to this shortly and get back to you. Thank you once again.

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 30 Jun 2006, 15:45

Dear CML, just listened to the composition. It is excellent, both sAhityam and tune. I will try this over the weekend.

Thank you very much.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 30 Jun 2006, 20:38

Nice MNS!

Now we are all ears to hear it in your golden voice!
regards...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 30 Jun 2006, 21:27

VK
The experiment continues. Thanks to Suji for the inspiration. I think the choice of the Raga is important from linguistic (and emotional) perspective. Just look at the following. Comments please...

Raga : BowLi Mela: (15) MAyAmALava gowLA
aro SRGPDS' avaro S'NDPGRS

Morning Hymn (Suji Inspired)

Streaming from the sun the rays are pouring
Waking me to start the day His grace admiring
Brings me out to the opens strange fascination
To show me the miracle of His creation

Here is my crude attempt
http://rapidshare.de/files/24569098/Bowli.mp3.html

I hope the mood would be wonderment rather than 'bhakti' unlike that from any 'suprabhatam'!

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 30 Jun 2006, 23:34

Nice MNS!

Now we are all ears to hear it in your golden voice!
regards...

Dear CML, thanks for the encouragement. In the charaNam, is it incorrect to render it as

nAsti pUjA gurvArAdhanam

by omitting "param"?

Also, is it possible to maybe move this discussion to a seperate thread as this is probably deviating from the topic of this thread?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 30 Jun 2006, 23:54

No problem!
nAsti pUjA gurvArAdhanam
is perfect
nAsti pUjA guOrArAdhanam
will also be appropriate. The 'param' indeed is redundant!

We need not move this thread since this is meant for 'contemporary compositions'. Any philosophical or linguistic issues may be discussed in the language section!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Jul 2006, 01:05

CML, the Suji-inspiried Bowli works for me a lot better....Good idea with the picture... even before I read the lyrics and listened to the song, I focussed on it to get into the mood. Great!!

Now, a couple of points..

1) For Version 2...it will be better if, for the same words, there is more music. Meaning, increase the duration of the song for the same words. May be split each line into half and hold on to the vowels longer...

2) I was thinking about an example from the 'singer/songwriter genre' with a good density of words and that still has enough 'space'. Here is a song I like for the phrasings ( though I still do not know what the lyrics are about

).

This is by Neko Case ( Album: Fox Confessor Brings the Flood, track: Margaret vs. Pauline ). Note: This song has nothing to do with CM.

Lyrics and then the link to the music sample ( Neko Case's ). Do not listen to the music first...Focus on the lyrics and how you will tune it musically, which words you will extend and how etc.. Then listen to the piece.

Lyrcis:

Everything's so easy for Pauline
Everything's so easy for Pauline
Ancient strings set feet a light to speed to her such mild grace
No monument of tacky gold
They smoothed her hair with cinnamon waves
And they placed an ingot in her breast to burn cool and collected
Fate holds her firm in its cradle and then rolls her for a tender pause to savor
Everything's so easy for Pauline

http://rapidshare.de/files/24584490/01_ ... t.mp3.html

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 01 Jul 2006, 16:44

Dear CML, please let me know what you think

http://rapidshare.de/files/24633716/bha ... L--MNS.mp3

Again this is my first one in bhagEsri so there are chances I may have deviated. Any corrections/suggestions greatly appreciated.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Jul 2006, 20:47

Superb MNS!
Bagesri is bubbling in your rendering. It is indeed elevating with the clear sahitya enunciation that you have! The mood is just divine!
You are singing
nAsti tIrtham parama pAdOdakam which is also correct and means 'There is no holy water other than the 'supreme' water washed off his feet'

Thank you for the treat and Good Luck with your Guru PourNima performance!

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 01 Jul 2006, 21:27

Dear CML, thank you very much.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Jul 2006, 21:29

VK

I was bowled over! The lyric is like a dirge, and I was looking for pathos. My first thought was mukhAri which will not fit; and then thought of ahiri and again the lyric would not fit. Then out of curiosity I heard the audio. The start of the music is 'dirge-like' but the lyric is just rushed through leaving no time to focus on poor Pauline. Too many words in too short a time and nary a long note! I could not find any ghost of CM lurking anywhere!

Now give me you/others views!

Time permitting I will u/l something interesting today/tomorrow!

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 01 Jul 2006, 23:01

Dear CML, please let me know what you think

http://rapidshare.de/files/24633716/bha ... L--MNS.mp3

Excellent!

BTW: Are you a professional musician, and/or do you give public performances ?

Best Wishes,
SR

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 02 Jul 2006, 00:29

Excellent!

Thanks SR.

BTW: Are you a professional musician, and/or do you give public performances ?

Best Wishes,
SR

Neither, but I wish I was

. I am an ardent CM fan and trying to learn as much as possible from you learned forum members. Thanks for your encouragement.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Jul 2006, 00:52

VK

Here is the song immortalized by Rodgers and Hammerstein. I have tried to carnatize it (of course no orchestra). Try and guess the raga!

Song: The Sound of Music Lyrics

The hills are alive with the sound of music
With songs they have sung for a thousand years
The hills fill my heart with the sound of music
My heart wants to sing every song it hears

My heart wants to beat like the wings of the birds
that rise from the lake to the trees
My heart wants to sigh like a chime that flies
from a church on a breeze
To laugh like a brook when it trips and falls over
stones on its way
To sing through the night like a lark who is learning to pray

I go to the hills when my heart is lonely
I know I will hear what I've heard before
My heart will be blessed with the sound of music
And I'll sing once more

Now you may remember the original version which unfortunately I can't u/l being commercial. But you may have heard it hundreds of times.

Now here is my version
http://rapidshare.de/files/24668385/Sou ... c.mp3.html

I had to take liberty with the accents not to 'kill' the language of the lyrics!

Folks!
Is it worthwhile to continue

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Jul 2006, 05:32

CML, I listened to your sound of music rendition. Great try at CMizing that song...The phrasings are getting better...We will call it 'reinterpretation' of the famous original....I can't quite get at the raga, though when I hummed by extending your piece, it landed me in the kAnaDa family, may be darbAri kAnaDA...What did you have in mind?

I picked that Neko Case song for the reason you mentioned, lot of words than usual and I wanted to see how the western phrasing works compared to ours. Adapting english lyrics with Indian music and making it sound natural for Indians is a tough job. For example, a colleague of mine likes one of those Beattles song with Sitar and almost Indian style singing. For me, that song sounds very odd.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Jul 2006, 06:25

VK
The meLkarta is right. I was subconsciously thinking Abheri (bhImplAs). Think of DKP's famous 'kaNNan madhura ithazhai...' I did add a alight echo to get the 'hills' effect! Also I totally ignored thaaLam and focussed on the lyric to maintain the spirit. I followed the Abheri phrases even for the fast passages which was tough. I wonder whether somebody else also tries; even a different raga perhaps!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Jul 2006, 22:15

VK
Tried your suggestion!
(WARNING! NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED

)
http://rapidshare.de/files/24745879/Sou ... 1.mp3.html

comments...

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 02 Jul 2006, 22:19

(WARNING! NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED )

Ha ha

So much tekkie!!!!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jul 2006, 01:11

VK
Tried your suggestion!
(WARNING! NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED )
http://rapidshare.de/files/24745879/Sou ... 1.mp3.html

comments...

CML, that sounded very good. Immediately "marudamalai maamaNiyE murugaiyaa" sprang up in our mind... not just due to the raga but your style of rendering as well. Congratulations..

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jul 2006, 10:05

Started reading this thread--fascinating--though I wish I had a knowledge of sanskrit to appreciate the outpouring of a young bard...

Bravo, cmlover...elle est la reine de musique, est vous-etes le roi de poesie! cMLoVer--o la la! (She is the queen of music and you the king of verse, cMLoVer--oh dear!)
Enough of my feeble attempt at french.
The language lends itself to cm. So will Italian.
I hummed your morning hymn in Bowli and it flows.

VK, I don't know what your 'Pauline' song sounds like, but I sang it in Bhagesri, liked it, and was reminded of Norwegian Woods. More in a remembrance mode than as a dirge. Begins with: da da da madanI dama garisa.

A related subject: as children, we not only transposed the words in a film song (mARRU bhAshai), we freely translated them in modified English (the language not being as supple for a Tamizh song):

From Chandralekha--
Aaaaaa deerum peacockum dansum parku
(Aaaaaa mAnum mayilum ADum solai)
evening good timu great river sidu
(mAlai nanEram mAnadi Oram)
dreamE sIyinanE (couldn't improve on it!)
my love dreamE sIyinanE
(kanavE kaNDEnE, ennAsai kanavE)

fullu moonu like his facE EEEE
new flower eyesE honey-like speechE
(pUrana chandran pOl avan mugamE
pudu malar vizhiyE madu nigar mozhiyE)
thoughtum dreamum you enrAnE
person-il comminAn, heartil freezinAn
(ninaivum kanavum nI enRAnE
nErinil vandAn, nenjil uRaindAn)

No rhyme or reason in this I suppose, but it shows how children find their own ways of expression, merrily altering things, adapting, and having a lot of fun in the process...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Jul 2006, 21:14

arasi!
I simply could not resist

http://rapidshare.de/files/24832312/Maa ... m.mp3.html

You must pardon the plagiarism

Incidentally the original was sung by Bhanumati in the movie 'Apoorva sahOdararkaL' to the accompaniment of the Piano. a novelty at that time!

I have changed 'love' to 'lovE' to balance the word count!

cheers....

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Jul 2006, 00:07

VK, I don't know what your 'Pauline' song sounds like, but I sang it in Bhagesri, liked it, and was reminded of Norwegian Woods. More in a remembrance mode than as a dirge. Begins with: da da da madanI dama garisa.

Any possibility of an upload of that? Bhagesri is also in CML's court and he can try it and see how well it matches yours!!

BTW, did you listen to that Neko Case's clip of Pauline I posted? Just for grins..

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jul 2006, 21:57

A Happy Fourth of July, all!

cMLoVer,
What fun, except I feel like a 'paTTikkADu' in 'paTTaNam' (a country mouse in a metropolis). This dinosaur (technologically speaking) can only read and type, not hear or record. I'm missing a lot. Some day, I might get there.
Of course, the song is not from Chandralekha (my memory played tricks, could only recall early S.S.Vasan). The moment you said 'apurva sahodarargal'('Corsican Brothers' remake), I could hear Bhanumathi's
charming voice singing it. My favorite from the film--'laDDu laDDU miTTAi vENumA?' aside, is the sylvan hymn--'manamOhanamE vana vAsamE'!
'A maragatha pullaNi manjam than mIdE paniththuLi tunjum
veNNilavilathan oLI minjum, adai vairam kaNDanjum'.