TMKrishna Concert at PapanasamSivanRasikarSangam on 260909

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chandar
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Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 15:30

Post by chandar »

Being a music lover decided to go to concert of TMKrishna accompanied by RKShriramkumar violin,MannargudiEaswaran mridangam and KVGopalakrishnan Kanjira.on the occasion of 119th birth anniversary celebration of PapanasamsivanRasikarSangam held at NaradaganaSabha main Hall on 26th sept 2009.
The programme started late as the birudu ceremony of Sri MKChandrasekaran and prize distribution ceremony programme overstretched. Heard the prayer song sung by Kum Aishwarya Shankar ( Narayana sama adi ) which was well rendered by this teenager from Kolkata : I understand she is a disciple of Indra Ranganathan and presently from Smt SugunaVaradachari. She gave a good start to the ceremony and her song was well appreciated by all members present on dias and hall. She also bagged the EAV Narayani ammal Tambura prize this year.

TMKrishna started his kutcheri with 1st song of Sri Papanasam sivan " Unnai Thuthikka in Kuntalavarali set to adi tala. The kalpana swaras which followed was really like brilliant showers of rain.

Next he sang Kaa Vaa Vaa in Varali adi . There was a slight slip instead of charanam he once again started with anupallavi but quickly corrected himself. Nevetheless the song was well rendered with full voice modulation and control.

Next to follow was a brief alapana of devagandhari followed by Sharade in adi

Sri Janakipate in karaharapriya set to adi was in medium tempo and the kalpanaswaras at pallavi was really an aural treat.

The alapana of nattakurinji was the crowning glory for this concert. It was well rendered and explored to the full extent possible. However surprise again !!! The main item was a Pada varnam " swami naan undan adimai" in adi. The neraval was done at edukadapallavi and its charanam sahityas which was different than the usual concert padhathi. It was similar to a dance performance giving the varnam the prime place. I hope in future this shall be TMK's style of concert singing. Nevertheless Krishna and his accompanists kept the audience spell bound with their performance.

Saravanabhava in Shanmugapriya was really sung in fast tempo and it really reminded me of Sri Semmangudi mama.

Kaana Vendamo in Sriranjani was next. This was sung keeping in mind the sahitya bhava at a slower pace than usual but sounded good.

Finally he sang "" Vazhiya SentamizH'' and finished the concert.

To conclude a brilliant concert of Sivan compositions by TMK ably supported by veterans and this concert shall remain in my memories forever.

saiganesh
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Post by saiganesh »

oh varNam again. i heard that he sang kambodhi atta tala varnam as main in navaratri mantapam concert on 21st.

srikant1987
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Post by srikant1987 »

Natakurinji main should have been a treat!

musicfan_4201
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Post by musicfan_4201 »

saiganesh wrote:oh varNam again. i heard that he sang kambodhi atta tala varnam as main in navaratri mantapam concert on 21st.

Perhaps this is one way of attention seeking trying to do things different from conventional norms.
The standard practice in the navarathri mandapam concert is to sing the navarathri kriti for that day with an elaborate ragam, thanam, nereval and swaras. It is probably the first time and the first musician to break the norm/tradition, if what is stated is correct.
All in the name of innovation :)
Last edited by musicfan_4201 on 27 Sep 2009, 18:31, edited 1 time in total.

musicfan_4201
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Post by musicfan_4201 »

It is only time that TMk takes mangalam for a main piece and end the show.

rithvikraja
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Post by rithvikraja »

Dear musicfan_4201

Just a clarification

TMK did not sing the varnam as the main piece at navarathri mandapam. He, in fact, did sing the navarathri krti Devi Pavane in Saveri with an elaborate ragam thanam neraval and svaram as you have mentioned. He sang the Kambojhi ata thala varnam as the sub main.

Rithvik

rajaglan
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 21:34

Post by rajaglan »

musicfan_4201 wrote:
saiganesh wrote:oh varNam again. i heard that he sang kambodhi atta tala varnam as main in navaratri mantapam concert on 21st.

Perhaps this is one way of attention seeking trying to do things different from conventional norms.
The standard practice in the navarathri mandapam concert is to sing the navarathri kriti for that day with an elaborate ragam, thanam, nereval and swaras. It is probably the first time and the first musician to break the norm/tradition, if what is stated is correct.
All in the name of innovation :)
TMK in his concerts at Unntai clarified the points that you have raised where he sang Viriboni varnam as main. Trying to do things different from conventional is not his way of innovating. He is trying to give importance to varnam by singing as the main piece.
Last edited by rajaglan on 28 Sep 2009, 12:39, edited 1 time in total.

vmr
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Post by vmr »

If Ariyakudi Iyengarval was listening to this stuff from heavens above. One can not imagine what would be his reaction to such innovations.......!!!!!!!

saiganesh
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Post by saiganesh »

why does a composer write (compose) anubandham for a varnam or any prabandham ? great scholar ra satyanarayaNa sir says anubandham in viriboni is written so as to give completeness in lyrical context but musicians have left it as it obstructs the flow.. does shri krishna said anything about it. i left that concert after that brilliant tani by harikumar :(

Rasika911
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Post by Rasika911 »

vmr wrote:If Ariyakudi Iyengarval was listening to this stuff from heavens above. One can not imagine what would be his reaction to such innovations.......!!!!!!!
I 'imagine' that he would empathise with TMK having probably faced the same problems himself.
Lets not pass judgment on what tmk has done...especially if we havent attended the concert.
@musicfan_4201 the varnam was not composed with the intent of being a concert opener. This is a modern trend if anything, mangalam is exactly what the name suggests and has always been at the end of the concert.

rajeevsid
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Post by rajeevsid »

Amen Rasika911 !!!

srinivasrgvn
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Post by srinivasrgvn »

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Last edited by srinivasrgvn on 27 Dec 2009, 08:03, edited 1 time in total.

KSJaishankar
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Post by KSJaishankar »

Rasika911 wrote: mangalam is exactly what the name suggests and has always been at the end of the concert.
Couple of points here .... MDR is on record about "Nee Nama Roopa Mulaku" that it is a complete kriti of the saint, for which alapana and swara prasthara also can be done! He himself has sung a reasonably elaborate alapana for this, albeit at the end of the concert.

Also, Pt Jasraj almost always BEGINS his concerts with the sloka "Mangalam Bhagavan Vishnu, Mangalam Garudadhwaja" ... so the position of the Mangalam is reversed.

A funny take on commencing with the Mangalam is given by Nagesh in a movie whose name I forget ... he does a harikatha in the movie, and commences with the Mangalam ... when asked why, he says "the elders have said that all tasks should be commenced with 'mangala karam', and anyway I am not sure if I will be able to finish the harikatha, so let me get the mangalam out of the way" :)

Svaapana
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Post by Svaapana »

Javali at the beginning, Varnam in the middle and RTP at the end is like dictionary the only book that has climax in the beginning, end in the middle and preface at the end. Just for fun please!

arasi
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Post by arasi »

On the one hand, we are 'so used' to certain things that we resent anything which happens to be different. Understood. Then again, changes in patterns, in life and art do happen and should happen. Those who make the changes are supposed to have deliberated over this, be convinced that the change works towards growth (progression). Even then, some work, some don't.
They better be good innovations. Again, how do we decide that? By our rasikatvam which again is a slippery thing because tastes differ, dependent on the rasikA's preferences, background, personality :)
Tradition is the strongest element here. As usual, food comes in handy for this. In a feast, food is served in a particular order. Which order? Depends on the tradition of the host. Rice first or all accompaniments first, after that spoonful of sugar at the head of the banana leaf?
Just because a few lines were lifted out of a song and traditionally made it as a finale feature, a song does not lose its existence. So, MDR was spot on. Personally, I do miss the prahlAda nAradAdi as that also was sung in a mangalam.
As Jasraj sings of mangalam at the beginning of a concert, it takes the place of an invocation. Is it merely the word mangalam that we are stuck with? In the forties and fifties, Suddhananda Bharathi's aruL purivAi karuNaik kaDalE was a popular invocation song. tangulagengilum mangalam pongavE is how the song ends.
Trees make woods. Woods contain individual trees. The point is, are we counting the trees or do we enjoy being in the woods? Of course, I am thinking of a walk in inspiring woods rather than the one which has a sign saying: this way to the woods, and there really isn't anything to take a walk in. I am trying to say, the newness better be something which makes sense and better still, takes CM forward...
Last edited by arasi on 29 Sep 2009, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

Like Pt Jasraj, dancers from the vazhuvUr school (and some others as well) begin with a tODaya mangaLam (roughly translated as toDakka mangaLam - mangaLam at the beginning) - regardless of where it is placed, a mangaLam is something through which the artist explicitly seeks divine blessings and auspiciousness - so, technically it can be placed at either end. A pet peeve of mine is why only the mangaLam of prahlAda bhakti vijayam is considered as THE mangaLam. I love the one from naukA caritamu, the mangaLam of Sri dIkshitar's (vasantA), the gorgeous one of Bhadrachala Sri Ramadasa's, as well as Sri Annamacharya's.

Personally, for me a varNam can be an opener, or, can be a fully-fleshed out center piece (a la the pada varNams in a mArgam).

Music
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Post by Music »

Ariyakudi laid down the format for a concert and audiences liked it. All artists adopted the same since the audience liked it. We are creatures of habit and we still like the same format.
Think of the artist's mind for a second. It is a very creative mind, thinking of creating something aesthetic, something new, something different all the time. Some ideas may be big hits. Some are not. We need the ideas. That is how a system evolves over time and keeps up with times. When Ariyakudi laid down the concert format, there must have been people at that time who loved the old formats and didn't appreciate the idea. But we all like the format now.
I am personally not ready for a varnam as a sub-main/main item because I am conditioned to listen to it in the beginning. In fact, even if someone skips a varnam and starts off with a Ganesha kriti, I am not very thrilled. I might change my mind if I listen to a live TMK concert...I don't know. TMK's varnam idea may not be a hit, but some other idea might work very well. Whether I like the idea or not, I appreciate the artist for being gutsy when he/she tries something new like that.
Last edited by Music on 29 Sep 2009, 22:01, edited 1 time in total.

Rasika911
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Post by Rasika911 »

chandar wrote:The neraval was done at edukadapallavi
I have a question....what is edukadapallavi?

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

There is 'etthukkaDai swaram' -I know; may be the sAhityam preceding is is 'etthukkaDai' pallavi?

Purist
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Post by Purist »

TMK has now made varnam singing at the middle as his style, innovation or whatever. Fine
one can accept as his forte. Unfortunately he doesnt seem to stop here. But by singing javali's in the begining, heavy kritis (like Chekkani Raja EnthaNinne etc) as openers he is only defacing the concert format. One cannot compare this what Ariyakudi did. Ariyakudi evovled a completely new model of concert format which completly differed from what was then prevailing way of concert. That's indeed innovation.
To repeat what I said in an earlier thread on a similar topic, if people think they can sing whatever
whereever and howsoever, that will only lead to chaos and destroy the structure of concert pattern.
If TMK wants change or show his innovative skills he should build a new structure and put to use
in his concerts. If that really works it will gain credence on its own accord. But mindless tampering of
time tested and widely accepted concert format in the name of innovation is only high
headedness.
Last edited by Purist on 01 Oct 2009, 15:42, edited 1 time in total.

Rasika911
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Post by Rasika911 »

Punarvasu wrote:There is 'etthukkaDai swaram' -I know; may be the sAhityam preceding is is 'etthukkaDai' pallavi?
I dont understand :S

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

What I meant was that the swarams occuring in the uttarAngam( 2nd half of the varnam) are called etthukkaDai swarams; the sAhityam preceding them is the caraNam; probably that is what is being referred to as the etthukkaDai pallavi.

Rasika911
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Post by Rasika911 »

Oh okay, now i understand...thanks :)

Ragjay
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Post by Ragjay »

Purist I agree with what you say and in an interview with The Hindu sponsored by Sampardaya R.K.Srikantan Sir specifically mentioning TMK said that a varnam by definition has to be sung at the begining of the concert and not in the middle of the concert .I hope he takes note of such advice.It would be wonderful to see him sing the mangalam first so that no one need sit thru .... Bye Ragjay
Last edited by Ragjay on 02 Oct 2009, 10:51, edited 1 time in total.

Rasika911
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Post by Rasika911 »

Ragjay wrote:Purist I agree with what you say and in an interview with The Hindu sponsored by Sampardaya R.K.Srikantan Sir specifically mentioning TMK said that a varnam by definition has to be sung at the begining of the concert and not in the middle of the concert .I hope he takes note of such advice.It would be wonderful to see him sing the mangalam first so that no one need sit thru .... Bye Ragjay
RKS said it is not sampradayam to sing it at the start.
Have ther been other artists who have sung varnam in the middle of the concert?
I know TNS and Sanjay have tried it anyone else?

sureshvv
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Post by sureshvv »

Purist wrote:TMK has now made varnam singing at the middle as his style, innovation or whatever. Fine
one can accept as his forte. Unfortunately he doesnt seem to stop here. But by singing javali's in the begining, heavy kritis (like Chekkani Raja EnthaNinne etc) as openers he is only defacing the concert format.
<snip>
But mindless tampering of
time tested and widely accepted concert format in the name of innovation is only high
headedness.
Oh please... it is just an order of presenting songs. Don't make everything into a ritual!

dhanyasi
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Post by dhanyasi »

Wow we go through this every time TMK sings a varnam out of place... with due respect to Ariyakudi, carnatic music pre-dates Ariyakudi by centuries... and there were concerts before Ariyakudi's period that did not follow that so-called varnam-sub-main-main-RTP concept. for instance the Bhairavi varnam viriboni pre dates the trinity ...to my knowledge none of the treatise say that the concert should be sung in a particular format...

Ariyakudi's template was JUST A FORMAT...a good one to some... if you like it, good for you... it does not mean that every concert should be sung that way... Come on.... One man cannot and dictate that all of the last 400 centuries of music and how it should be presented in A format and HE DID NOT INTEND TO... he just presented A good format.. but not the only one and i hope not.... else 90% of the rich varnams/padavarnams and other compositions will perish as they have already done.... if you dont like a varnam in the middle... too bad...try a diffrent day or artist... dont complain or ask the artist to change their ways... carnatic music is much more diverse..

Always_Evolving
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Post by Always_Evolving »

Dhanyasi wrote:One man cannot and dictate that all of the last 400 centuries of music and how it should be presented in A format and HE DID NOT INTEND TO... he just presented A good format.. but not the only one and i hope not....
The question is -- whether Varnam as main or submain piece constitutes ANOTHER good format in the mind of the listener? There must be a reason they were chosen as openers. Varnams have minimal words, lots of akaarams, slow and fast speeds (nice as a warm-up), a few pre-composed swarams -- all point to less scope / need for improvisational aspects. On occasion I have heard varnam as opener followed by a few kalpana swarams but there is little scope for elaboration by neraval -- the sahityam is generally minimal and not very deep or evocative in meaning. Alapanas are (almost) redundant as the varnam itself begins with slow, akaaram-filled phrases.
dhanyasi wrote:if you dont like a varnam in the middle... too bad...try a diffrent day or artist... dont complain or ask the artist to change their ways... carnatic music is much more diverse.
But why not? A contemporary singer sings for a contemporary audience. If what he is serving is not relished by many of his listeners then they might as well give him that feedback right?

arunk
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Post by arunk »

Indeed this has to be the most chewed, tasteless gum around ;-) -

My 2 cents: From what I can remember (from a transcript of his speech at the academy), it seems like ARI's goal was to come up with an "all inclusive format" as a way of keeping wide array of audience engaged as well as make way for multiple forms of compositions to remain alive. Thus it had room for various formats varnam, krithi, thillana, javali, tiruppavai types etc. with the main krithi perhaps pre-determined as the central one. Now of course, within the format, he had to come up with a placement of the various forms and and justification. He chose varnam as a start and offered a plausible and valid justification as "to warm up the voice" - it is just ONE justification. Varnams as grand pieces obviously pre-dated ARI - but perhaps over time had lost their importance to krithi which really took off due to the trinity. So ARI's format provided an avenue for making varnam a part of the concert but in a subdued role (understandable if we take that krithis with their bhakthi content as well as richness by this time had to play a central role). Of course is better than the varnams going into oblivion, but it does not mean the "this must be the only way in every concert from now on". That the cm world would religiously hold on to his justifications and develop a tendency to make his format a inviolate to me sounds wacky at best. That we would want to simply follow a cookie cutter approach to art form is also as wacky. And I really doubt if that is what he had in mind. I think he had more progressive ideas than that.

Arun

Rasika911
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Post by Rasika911 »

Just because TM Krishna is doing it doesnt mean that everybody else has to do it as well. It can be an individual thing.
To the person who said varnams dont offer scope for nereval, you should have listened to TM Krishnas neravel at the academy for viriboni...one of the most grand neravals i have ever heard.

arasi
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Post by arasi »

A varNam placed at the start is something I like. Yet, one coming in the middle of a concert won't bother me, I think. The questions are:
why is ariyakkuDi's format still around? Is it because it suddenly made better sense than all that existed before? Is it because it is an express edition which includes many interesting elements of a performance in a short time? Is it just because musicians have settled comfortably into this way of presentation--tailor-made as it were for them? Easier work perhaps than singing the same rAgam for hours? Or is it because concerts moved to the city where it is not an event born out of the desire of a single patron but a diverse urban crowd?
Whatever it is, I would like to quote from The New Yorker's opera critic Alex Ross's review on "Tosca" at the Metropolitan Opera recently: by all means, then, let's have a new "Tosca". But it needs to be good. And this is not.
How do we know if the ariyakkuDi format is good or not? It has stood the test of time, it has audience approval. It is fine, and should the musicians stick with it forever or can ruminate re-arranging it? If so, is it done with responsibility and innovation or just by playing around with the order? Does the new order convey a new meaning which adds to the already existing values?
Both the performer and the audience can be sportive about it until the realization comes about the merits and demerits in new ventures, both to the innovator and the listener. Something new does not have to be rejected just because it is new. Anything which is old now, was new at one time...
For those who ask whose side I am on, here's the answer: no, I'm not taking sides. Let things grow, I would say, but responsibly, not making any attempts which would destroy what we already have.
Going back to the opera, it got its share of boos, even from those who watched it free on the big screen outside. I am sure there will be another opera, all new, but with a clamor for encores from the audience...

Always_Evolving
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Post by Always_Evolving »

@arunk and arasi: Wise words and points I concede :-)
@rasika911: well yes, i'll reserve judgement as i did not hear that particular neraval.

arasi
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Post by arasi »

True to your name!
If all rasikAs do the same, artistes can evolve too, alongside :)

srkris
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Post by srkris »

I don't think it was Ariyakudi's idea to put the varnam first, for we don't have any records to show that other singers of his generation were placing the varnam in the middle of their concerts (or anywhere else other than the beginning).

Perhaps there was a near-consensus in his time about the order of songs that must be presented in a concert, and he merely consolidated and voiced that point of view.

It is hard to imagine that once Ariyakudi voiced his views on the concert format, everyone else who had been singing CM differently dropped their traditions to embrace Ariyakudi's paddhati.

People may get credited for things they are not responsible for, and get reviled for things that are no fault of theirs, and this is how myth-making happens.

It is surprising that no one thought it fit to ask Ariyakudi himself about his supposed invention.

Purist
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Post by Purist »

The purport of my post (# 20) was not confined to varnam singing at middle. My concern
was about the next levels of tampering.

suresh vv (#26): Sorry suresh, to follow a methodical approach is not 'a ritual'.
Imagine the situation where there is no order .. X begins with Thillana,..follow krithi..Varnam..tukkada..
RTP, mangalam. Y begins RTP.. Javali..Krithi..Varnam ..mangalam. Z wants to be smart, starts
with a Nereval of a krithi and concludes with an alapana...so on. This is not over exaggeration, but could be in the realms of possibility down the line.What will the concert goer digest?

As Arasi points out.. lets not destroy what we already have in the name of innovation or being blindly different.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Purist,

That Ariyakudi introduced the concert format may be a tall claim for reasons I have mentioned in my last post. He may have been merely credited with it, not being wholly responsible for the innovation.

It will be an equally tall claim to say that TMK is destroying the tradition. One musician (even as great as Ariyakudi, leave alone TMK) cannot make or break a tradition. Individuals may do several things to gain more attention, not all of them serious or genuine. We must not forget we are dealing with public personalities for whom a few more eyeballs (or eardrums in this case) cannot hurt. Others may gain audience from other genres (through playback singing etc) to add to their audience... I presume this is just one such tactic.

Musicians (once they think they are successful, regardless of reality) may bring forth their eccentricities to the fore, and call them innovations. This has been done by others before. I don't know if they will still continue with their eccentricities if they lose a major chunk of their audience. That is when you can gauge the genuineness or artificiality of their so called innovations.
Last edited by srkris on 03 Oct 2009, 14:32, edited 1 time in total.

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

srkris wrote:Purist,

That Ariyakudi introduced the concert format may be a tall claim for reasons I have mentioned in my last post. He may have been merely credited with it, not being wholly responsible for the innovation.
...
Few years in some lecdem or a newspaper I read the kutcheri format was actually introduced by Poochi SrinivAsa Iyengar and taken forward by Ariyakudi.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

That's interesting.

One thing I forgot to add is we should not micro-analyse each artist's experiments. All said and done, although CM is a shAstra (science), it is also a kala (art). Every artist has the artistic license to experiment with the art. I wonder how many people will stop listening to TMK just because his ordering of the songs is different.

He is a scholar and he knows what is best. Even if he is wrong in his ideas, he has the wherewithal to say "if you want, you can listen to me, else go away". That's where it all boils down to.

So if his ideas/innovations are good, others may follow him, else they will die down their natural death. There is no need to fret and frown about it.

Agnosist
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Post by Agnosist »

Why a big hue and cry? What is Sampradhayam? If at all the word "Sampradhayam"

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

Finally it is the nature's law of 'survival of the fittest'. If anything is good it will survive against all odds; time alone can decide. Till the let us all enjoy what we want to from what is available.
It is like a 'BUFFET'; you pick your choice.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

Punarvasu - perfect - the same thing I feel - if an innovation is good, others will adopt it (isn't imitation is the best form of flattery?), and it will survive the test of time. There is always a right time for these innovations - the time has to be 'ripe'. I am sure that ARI's 'innovation' may have fallen flat some 15-20 years prior, and if he had waited another 15-20 years, someone else would have tried something similar.

arasi
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Post by arasi »

Exactly, Ravi!
So, pUcci, it could have been (the same school), but it stuck more in the times of his chEla (a time for everything, as they say)!
Progression or regression in the arts aren't dependent on individuals but the sumtotal of all that has happened in that period and the way in which they have gained staying power.
srikris says we shouldn't micro-analyse each artiste's experiments, and he is spot on. Either appreciate it, or move on, if it isn't to your liking.
What some people forget is that the giants of yesterday did have their triumphs and failures while attempting something different and rasikAs reacted to them negatively too, at times! We see them from afar, only perceiving what they had achieved--which we see in the music they left behind and in the next generation of performers who make them their own who also make their own attempts in taking it all a step ahead. The experiments bear fruit, or fail.
In science, we don't interfere with experiments in the labs until they are brought out into the world as results of these efforts. We are either astounded by their results or are disappointed...
Last edited by arasi on 03 Oct 2009, 20:32, edited 1 time in total.

sureshvv
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Post by sureshvv »

Purist wrote: Imagine the situation where there is no order .. X begins with Thillana,..follow krithi..Varnam..tukkada..
RTP, mangalam. Y begins RTP.. Javali..Krithi..Varnam ..mangalam. Z wants to be smart, starts
with a Nereval of a krithi and concludes with an alapana...so on. This is not over exaggeration, but could be in the realms of possibility down the line.
OK. Imagining....
Purist wrote: What will the concert goer digest?.
That depends on what they ate for dinner. :-)

But seriously, seems to me that you are afraid of the "slippery slope" effect which may not be justified in this case,
Even in your worst case scenario, if each item is presented in an exemplary manner, many would be happy to sit thru' the concert.
The bottom line is how each item is presented - the order is just to provide the comfort of familiarity.
Last edited by sureshvv on 04 Oct 2009, 11:20, edited 1 time in total.

bilahari
Posts: 2631
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:02

Post by bilahari »

I wonder to what extent the format might change... for instance, why DO we sing alapanai before krithi, swaras after neraval, etc? I have no problems with varnams and javalis in the middle of the concert, but if someone were to sing a krithi, a ragam, swaras, and then a neraval, I'm not sure how/if I might take it.

saiganesh
Posts: 45
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 13:28

Post by saiganesh »

in very olddays it was not compulsory to sing a kriti (or any prabandham for that matter) in the same raaga which is elaborated earlier! system,format keeps evolving i think.

srinivasrgvn
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Joined: 30 Nov 2008, 07:46

Post by srinivasrgvn »

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Last edited by srinivasrgvn on 27 Dec 2009, 08:00, edited 1 time in total.

rajaglan
Posts: 709
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 21:34

Post by rajaglan »

For me none of this matter. What I look forward to in a concert is
1. long (main) alapana
2. new songs (new to me so that my database grows) and neraval which I like.
3. RTP alapana and thanam and pallavi. not swarams and ragamailka swarams.
Nowadays I am bored of swarams unless someone plans it very well , examples like MMI like a
spider webbing or TMK like a multiple stage rockets firing.

So it really doesnot matter for me what is sung first or last or mid. But ARI format helps
in a big way to time to enter the concert hall. For example in a Sanjay's concert , I never want to
miss song numbers 2,3 and submain definitely because they are definitely new to
me always. And for TMK, I never miss the first two songs as the neraval and swarams
climaxing is wonderful. And offcourse sit through both completely. But for U srinivas , I am fine
if I sit through the main song and RTP only.

I am definitely disappointed when TMK sings a main varnam that is more because of my
expectation of a main song not because of his delivery lacks innovation/effort. When I was hearing
the viriboni varnam of TMK at Unnati , I wondered whether anything more can be done by anyone.
It was so elaborate.

Actually if you look at TMks evolution, he learnt lots of varnams by the age of 12. And he feels
varnams are not given its due. So all these efforts. Wonder when swarajathis were sung on
olden days as main, people must have objected to it.
Last edited by rajaglan on 04 Oct 2009, 17:31, edited 1 time in total.

vmr
Posts: 56
Joined: 14 Sep 2009, 16:08

Post by vmr »

Innovations are good to music, but they should remain within the framework of an established pattern or a set pattern. Some innovations do face critisism..like,when Semmangudi Mama rendered nereval and kalpana swarams for Bhairavi Swarajathi , there were many eye brows raised. In fact he has in one of his interviews said that there is lot of scope of elaboration of the Raaga, therefore it is not wrong or un-wise to elaborate. It is also believed that Semmangudi Mama's guru Viswanatha iyer did sing Kalpana swarams at the end of a Pancha Ratna Krithi.

All said and done......if the imagination of the artist gels well with the rasikas...it is all the more fine......

vmr
Posts: 56
Joined: 14 Sep 2009, 16:08

Post by vmr »

Innovations are good to music, but they should remain within the framework of an established pattern or a set pattern. Some innovations do face critisism..like,when Semmangudi Mama rendered nereval and kalpana swarams for Bhairavi Swarajathi , there were many eye brows raised. In fact he has in one of his interviews said that there is lot of scope of elaboration of the Raaga, therefore it is not wrong or un-wise to elaborate. It is also believed that Semmangudi Mama's guru Viswanatha iyer did sing Kalpana swarams at the end of a Pancha Ratna Krithi.

All said and done......if the imagination of the artist gels well with the rasikas...it is all the more fine......

KSJaishankar
Posts: 109
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:01

Post by KSJaishankar »

Someone mentioned that "unchecked innovation" could lead to a situation where someone sings alapana after the kriti. I know it sounds preposterous ... but consider this. Multiple sources have talked about the great masters like SSI, GNB et al, who would continue singing the main raga of the day after a concert got over, well into the night, because their imagination in that raga was unleashed!

Would it be preposterous, if an artiste were to take up say Gajavadana in Todi, and get inspired by the chitta swarams to go on to expound Todi elaborately AFTER the kriti got over? Would the rasikas say "WOW! What a Todi!" or "Who does s/he think s/he is, to go against the sampradayam of singing Alapana before the kriti?"

There were comments in this very thread about TMK breaking a tradition by singing the Kambhoji Ata tala varnam as a main piece in place of the designated kriti of the day (at the Navaratri Mandapam). Turns out the "commentator" had not even heard the concert and decided jump in without knowing that TMK had sung this as the sub-main item.

Anyway.. that is beside the point I was going to make. Sampradaya has a relevance within a context. If sampradaya was sacrosanct in absolute terms at the Navaratri Mandapam concerts, why was the "rule" of no women artistes discontinued? My tuppence - it had become irrelevant (dare I say "politically incorrect" :)) in today's context.

Sampradaya IS subject to change.

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