Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Carnatic Musicians
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meena
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Post by meena »

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Last edited by meena on 06 May 2008, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.

ravi2006
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Post by ravi2006 »

A tani avartanam by Palghat Mani Iyer from a KVN concert in Edinburgh, 1963:

http://www.badongo.com/file/2558775

Sri Mani Iyer is accompanied by another mridangam player; I'm not sure who he is (C.S. Murugabhoopathy perhaps?) - anyway, listen to the 2 of them having a gripping exchange in misra gati during the tani.

PS: A question for experienced uploaders. I have only just started transferring music from cassettes to my PC and have noticed each audio file is taking up an excessive number of Megabytes compared to similar-length tracks that other people have uploaded. I am using 'Instant Music' by ADStech and Nero SoundTrax to convert from cassettes to .WAV files. What do other members use? Is there any way of cutting down on the space taken up?

PPS: If I can solve this problem I should be able to upload the whole of KVN's Sankarabharanam + tani

sankirnam
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Post by sankirnam »

That Edinburgh concert was double mrudangam with PMI and his son, Palghat T. R. Rajamani.

sankirnam
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Post by sankirnam »

and yes, to reduce space, make sure you are also converting the files to mp3 or some other compressed or "lossy" format. Mp3 is the most popular choice, and for most Carnatic recordings, 128 kbps is sufficient quality.

sankirnam
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Post by sankirnam »

Here is a thani of PMI from a concert in Ragasudha in 1981 with Ramani and TNK. Not sure if SV Krishnan had moved to Chennai then or if it was still in Coimbatore.
This thani shows why Mani Iyer was both feared and respected for his nadham. He begins the thani improvising on the line of swaram that Ramani plays, and later he delves into some complex kannaku (you can hear everyone struggling to put thalam).

http://rapidshare.com/files/22615459/Thani__1.mp3.html

pgaiyar
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Post by pgaiyar »

Message for Ravi 2006:

Dear Sir. Kindly upload again as the thani of PMI+ TR Rajamani(Edinburgh) file is deactivated. God bless you.

Regards

P. G. Aiyar (pgaiyar@yahoo.com)

ravi2006
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Post by ravi2006 »

Here is KVN's Swara Raga followed by the tani, in a more compact form this time:

http://www.badongo.com/file/2565993

Sankirnam, thanks for the tip.

mahesh33
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Post by mahesh33 »

Sankirnam

I am not convinced that the thani is indeed PMI's..most likely it is Guru Sri Karaikudi Mani.

sankirnam
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Post by sankirnam »

It is indeed Palghat Mani Iyer.. the korvai he plays starting at 4:37 is his own, I have only heard him play that. Similarly, the mohara he plays at the end is a classic Thanjavur school mohara, which I have never heard KRM sir play.
KRM sir also plays kappi mrudangam, just like Palghat Mani Iyer, but only PMI has this kind of tone in his mrudangam.
I can tell KRM and PMI apart easily, and this is definetely Palghat Mani Iyer.

ignoramus
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Post by ignoramus »

hi sankirnam

would like to have your contact detail if you dont mind. my email id is kann14@yahoo.com. Just wanted to discuss one or two things with you.

completelyclueless
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Post by completelyclueless »

i just listened to the clip...how can this be anybody other than the great mani iyer?

pgaiyar
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Post by pgaiyar »

To : Ravi2006 : Many thanks, Sir for the repeat uplaod. God bless you.

Regards

P. G. Aiyar

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

Rajamani, son of Palghat Mani Iyer reminisces about his father and laya (But two different names for the same thing!) and reflects on current trends in this article in the Hindu.
Setting the rhythm

RAKSHITH M.R.

Much of the credit for the mridanga's current status must go to Palghat Mani Iyer, reminisces his son and disciple, Palghat T.S. Rajamani

TITANIC PRESENCE Rajamani humbly concedes

If rhythm occupies a central place in the scheme of Carnatic music, some of the credit must go to the legendary mridangam maestro Palghat Mani Iyer . It was through Mani Iyer's remarkable adeptness at accompaniment that the mridanga went from being a mere marker of time into an indispensable component of any musical rendering. The new language of percussion introduced by him established the mridanga in the foreground of Carnatic music and enabled percussion to evolve into a complex art.

Mani Iyer's disciple and son Palghat T.S. Rajamani is a repository of the rhythmic knowledge embodied in Mani Iyer's school of playing. His initiation to mridanga was natural as its sound literally filled the air in his home. The training happened in an informal ambience without the notion of a class at a fixed hour. A major part of Rajamani's learning happened when Mani Iyer used to give advanced lessons to senior disciples. On occasion, Mani Iyer would ask K.V. Narayanaswamy — who used to stay with him those days — to sing and his own illustrious disciple Palghat Raghu to accompany him on the mridangam. And Mani Iyer would guide them on the khanjira.

Mani Iyer encouraged his son to play for bhajans as it infused him with ideas and helped achieve finger dexterity. When the new concept of double mridanga begin to be experimented with, Mani Iyer would literally lead Rajamani on the stage and expose him to the intricacies of accompaniment. This was the phase when manodharma (creativity of the individual) evolved. Rajamani recollects that before concerts his father would tutor him on what to play and where to effect a change of pattern. If Rajamani followed the instruction mechanically Mani Iyer would shout at him for not having observed the effect the particular nadai (rhythmic movement) had on the audience.

It had to be played for longer time when the audience was savouring its delight, he would argue, and not be changed just to mechanically conform to a pre-planned scheme of playing. In the next concert if Rajamani did so, he would then be reprimanded for not being innovative. The fine elements that go into accompaniment like grasping the rhythmic movement of the main performer, the points at which one must be innovative, the moments when one should pause, and the intuition to judge the pulse of the audience could be imbibed only in a live culture of performance.

Mani Iyer's art, remarks Rajamani, gained profundity because of his intimate knowledge of the songs being rendered. This, coupled with his extraordinary presence of mind, resulted in a rich rhythmic text that raised the aesthetics of the musical composition to great heights.


Mani Iyer's (accompanying legendary vocalist Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar) art and persona are so towering that he never imagined meddling with it

The manner in which he changed his style of accompaniment for the same song rendered by different musicians made one wonder at the infinite possibilities of the mridangam. The typical rhythmic phrases he played for "Yendudi Vedalithi" sung by Alathur Brothers or the tisra nadai (three syllables for a beat) he introduced in "Amba Kamakshi" presented by Semmangudi, for example, are etched in the memory of connoisseurs. It is no exaggeration if one said that the listeners would forget the song and be enraptured by the mridangam accompaniment.

Mani Iyer always violated his own statement that the percussion interlude should not go on for more than six to eight minutes. He clarified that if the percussionists had the power to captivate the audience in rapture, time would no longer be a criterion. Mani Iyer acknowledged that while trying to give a new dimension to his art he drew artistic elements from practitioners of instruments such as the thavil, chandai, thayambakam, and remodelled them to blend coherently with conventional patterns of mridangam and effected a structural and creative transformation.

Some critics observe that the exigent task of establishing the mridangam in the forefront of Carnatic music compelled Mani Iyer to come out with raging and massive sound arrays that seem wild and raw. The next stage of evolution required refinement and order. Rajamani humbly concedes that Mani Iyer's art and persona are so towering that he never imagined meddling with it.

Rajamani comments that these days even youngsters play complicated mathematical combinations since they are exposed to a lot of music and have many facilities, but their playing lacks depth, rigour and restraint, especially in accompaniment.

He feels that this kind of growth is not desirable for the evolution of the art. The other challenge comes from main performers who prefer monotonous, insipid sarvalaghu accompaniment that does not demand them to come out with equally competent musical phrases. Rajamani feels that mridanga practitioners of the present generation must confront this crisis with greater involvement in the art and strive for retaining mridangam's reputation as an evolved percussion instrument.
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2007/04/20/stor ... 000300.htm

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Is TS Rajamani Sir a vocalist as well? I heard in one concert of Palghat Ramprasad that his guru was his father Rajamani Sir.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/fr/200 … 000300.htm

Thanks Rajesh for pointing out my goof up! :)

meena
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Post by meena »

shankar

cannot access the link :(

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

meena wrote:shankar

cannot access the link :(
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2598

You can open here. :)

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

DRS has posted the same!

meena
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Post by meena »

thanks suji/shankar

sshankar_1970
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Post by sshankar_1970 »

Has PMI ever played alongwith G Harishankar (Kanjira) or with T.H.Vinayakaram (gHATAM)? Are there any recordings?

mohan
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Post by mohan »

Does someone have the text of the speech that Sri Palghat Mani Iyer gave when he was conferred the Sangeetha Kalanidhi title?

srkris
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Post by srkris »

sshankar_1970 wrote:Has PMI ever played alongwith G Harishankar (Kanjira) or with T.H.Vinayakaram (gHATAM)? Are there any recordings?
I think he has played with both. I will confirm this shortly.

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

PMI has played definitely with both Vikku and Harishankar. Infact he was one of Harishankar's gurus. He played quite a few concerts with Harishankar for MLV.

Now clarifying a previous post's question : Rajamani mama is PMI's first son who is a Mridangist, who accompanied PMI in Edinburgh and many other concerts. He is a giant in Layam. There is a famous story of PMI losing a bet for Rajamani Mama in a laya related problem. Shri Rajaram is his last son and he is the Father and Guru of Shri Palghat R.Ramprasad. Hope that clarifies it.

T

srkris
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Post by srkris »

thathwamasi wrote:Rajamani mama is PMI's first son who is a Mridangist, who accompanied PMI in Edinburgh and many other concerts. He is a giant in Layam. There is a famous story of PMI losing a bet for Rajamani Mama in a laya related problem.
There is no doubt on his giant status... but please update us on this famous story. Thanks. :)

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

Here is the famous story : There are many versions of it. The one I am writing was told to me by Rajamani Mama himself so we can get a level of comfort about the authenticity.

Rajamani Mama was a college student then. And was brilliant with layam, mathematics and mridangam as ever. Once he was engaged in a heated arguement with PMI about keeping two different taalams at the same time. As in, one taalam in one hand. There is no challenge when you blindly try that we some random combination like Rupakam in one hand and Adi in other.

So PMI put forth this challenge. Rajamani mama must recite Korvais with two taalams in two hands. The talams chosen were, Adi talam Misra Nadai and Kanda jaathi ata talam chathusra nadai. (this was chosen because of its brilliance. Adi talam misra nadai is 56 mathrais(7counts * 8 beats) and Kanda Jaathi Ata thaalam chathusra nadai is also 56 maathrais (4 counts * 14 beats. K.Ata thalam is the same taalam of bhairavi varnam just in case if its confusing.) So both there taalams will be co-inciding at the samam of every round.) It is a haunting task to do. The stakes were as follows. If Rajamani Mama does it, then PMI will play concerts for 6 months with a kudumi. If he fails, then he has to attend his college for six months wearing a dhoti. And Rajamani mama thought very logically and deviced a simple practicing technique, practised and sucessfully defeated PMI in this bet. And PMI did oblige by having a kudumi for sometime.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Haha what a bet. But I would say both of them were right in their own ways. One held that the feat was nearly impossible, and the other proved that being nearly impossible was not the same as being absolutely impossible.

kaplingat
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Post by kaplingat »

Btw Sri Rajamani's reminisces about Mani Iyer is coming in the Malayalam weekly "Kalakaumudi". He has already covered Mani Iyer's early life, association with Chembai, Palakkad Rama Bhagavathar, TR Mahalingam, Ariyakudi etc.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Ohh does someone have a copy of these? Maybe I should ask Shri Rajamani himself.

vijay
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Post by vijay »

Suguna Purushottaman is also famous for being able to do this. It is quite amazing to watch for someone who cannot even keep one thaalam properly!

mahesh_narayan
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Post by mahesh_narayan »

My guru's guru Shri Trichy Swaminatha Iyer who lived in Mumbai was also known to be adept in avadhana pallavis. It certainly requires supernormal concentration and assidulous practice.

tharikita
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Post by tharikita »

I have had the good fortune of learning this 8x7 on one hand and 14x4 on the other from Sri Rajamani a couple of years ago. It was so fascinating that I went without sleep and lost all inclination to do anything other than getting this right . I have managed to do this with 14x4 on the right and 8x7 on the left and saying thakadimithakita (7) eight times. When I finally got it, I ran upto him to show what I could do, and then he pulled out another card..
He reversed it by putting 14x4 on the left and 8x7 on the right! I was left rubbing my eyes when he did this and he did it at slow and top speeds! I don't have a month for that exercise and I have a feeling I will be totally confused at the end of it all. I better hang on to what I can know/do.
He is doing a lecture demonstration at Sri Karaikudi Mani's school in Chennai, in Dec. I am not exactly sure of the date. If you do attend this program, you could ask him to show this technique.
I shall post the date shortly in a couple of days..

thathwamasi
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Post by thathwamasi »

<Tharikita>..Excellant...He astounded me by reciting a complex korvai with two thalams in his hand. He also showed me one more thalam which I forgot now...Please do post the dates, I am quite eager to meet him as well. Its been 5 and a half years now.

tharikita
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Post by tharikita »

It's not a lecdem rather a thaniarvatanam at Astika Samajam, Venus Colony on Dec 15th @ 5 PM.

venkatakailasam
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Palakad Mani Iyer

Post by venkatakailasam »

An interesting article by Subbudu about the artist can be found at http://palghatmaniiyer.org/1_23_Subbudu.html#
If one goes inside by clicking Audio you can find:

The Story of a legend - Vikatan book on Mridanga Medhai Palakkadu Mani Iyer.

The Ananda Vikatan publication titled Palakadu Mani Iyer authored by Shri. Charukesi is an excellent recollection of memorable events from Late Sri. Mani Iyer's life. This book is written in Thamizh. You could be one of the rasikas of Mridangam and Mani Iyer, who can understand spoken Thamizh, but are challenged to read it. For others interested in listening to the content, this could serve as an audio book.
venkatakailasam

rajeshnat
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Re: Palakad Mani Iyer

Post by rajeshnat »

Mods ,
Duplicate thread . Merge with the parent http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... r&start=25

venkatakailasam
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Re: Palakad Mani Iyer

Post by venkatakailasam »

rajeshnat wrote:Mods ,
Duplicate thread . Merge with the parent http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... r&start=25
When I searched for Palghat Mani Iyer, I got the results of the concerts where he played Mirudhagam and not this link.
This may be due to use of Palghat instead of Palakad
On earlier occasions also the link was not available in search results.
Perhaps the distortion needs attention.

venkatakailasam

ragam-talam
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Re: Palakad Mani Iyer

Post by ragam-talam »

Yes, I had a similar issue with the Sethalapathi thread.

When I searched with all possible versions of his name, the old thread never turned up. I suspect this may also have something to do with the old threads that were created in the old forum not being selected in our search now...

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by vasanthakokilam »

merged. ( different spellings do cause issues with search..you have to try a few different variations.. Not sure but there may also be search issues with topics from the previous rev of the forum. )

srkris
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by srkris »

The forum is getting old :-)

venkatakailasam
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by venkatakailasam »

The forum is getting old

you are an exception :grin:

venkatakailasam

rajeshnat
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by rajeshnat »

Agreed singing with a low pitch is a problem, but certainly avoiding mike is bit counter productive.
Shri PMI's opinion in archives of the hindu
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article956857.ece

srkris
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by srkris »

Nice anecdote

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

I agree with PMI on the pitch aspect-- he tried to avoid playing when the vocalist--no matter how great a Vidwan he may be (a la MDR)--had a sruthi below Oru Kattai--First the mridangam would sound like "as if the instrument was immersed in a deep well for days"--his own words. At the same time his reason for avoiding female vocalists was that the pitch was on the other side high side--only when even the female vocalists like DKP and MLV--due to aging--had lowered their pitches he began accompanying them -not because of any other ulterior(financial) motives attributed to him by detractors !!

As an aside about vocalists'pitches; I HAVE HEARD A STORY ABOUT T.CHOWDIAH'S EXPERIMENT WITH 7 STRINGS(VS NORMAL 4)--he found the vocalists' pitches(of his times!!!) too low that it was not possible to display of his talents --hence he invented the 7 strings that gave the volume that would "drown" out the low pitch!!! Imagine he accompanied Chembai,Naina Pillai and others of his times whose pitch was far higher than the ones that followed them. if even these pitches were considered low by accompaniments,PMI's views on pitch seem to be justified!!!

Re; his objection to the mike ( in addition to the pitch aspect he riled about) was due to his penchant for preparing his Mridangam for a concert--the work on the Meettu Chapu and Thoppi parts that he does prior to the concert--no last minute rushing to the stage and tuning the instrument -- should be seen to be believed.His point against the mike(as expressed to me by his son Rajamony--no self-serving statement --I can assure the readers) was that without the mike his playing and his instrument would sound far superior to others--whereas the mike plays the role of leveller(sort of dumbing-down if you will) and that his distinctive playing may not be really distinguishable(I am no acoustic expert and as such I have to take his statement @ face value!!).

cacm
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by cacm »

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:I agree with PMI on the pitch aspect-- he tried to avoid playing when the vocalist--no matter how great a Vidwan he may be (a la MDR)--had a sruthi below Oru Kattai--First the mridangam would sound like "as if the instrument was immersed in a deep well for days"--his own words. At the same time his reason for avoiding female vocalists was that the pitch was on the other side high side--only when even the female vocalists like DKP and MLV--due to aging--had lowered their pitches he began accompanying them -not because of any other ulterior(financial) motives attributed to him by detractors !!

PMI was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT especially given the TERRIBLE ACCOUSTICS of halls & the ANTIQUATED PUBLIC ADDRESS SYSTEMS still being used in CHENNAI. VKV

Re; his objection to the mike ( in addition to the pitch aspect he riled about) was due to his penchant for preparing his Mridangam for a concert--the work on the Meettu Chapu and Thoppi parts that he does prior to the concert--no last minute rushing to the stage and tuning the instrument -- should be seen to be believed.His point against the mike(as expressed to me by his son Rajamony--no self-serving statement --I can assure the readers) was that without the mike his playing and his instrument would sound far superior to others--whereas the mike plays the role of leveller(sort of dumbing-down if you will) and that his distinctive playing may not be really distinguishable(I am no acoustic expert and as such I have to take his statement @ face value!!).
Again he was totally correct.......VKV

thenpaanan
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by thenpaanan »

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:...
As an aside about vocalists'pitches; I HAVE HEARD A STORY ABOUT T.CHOWDIAH'S EXPERIMENT WITH 7 STRINGS(VS NORMAL 4)--he found the vocalists' pitches(of his times!!!) too low that it was not possible to display of his talents --hence he invented the 7 strings that gave the volume that would "drown" out the low pitch!!! Imagine he accompanied Chembai,Naina Pillai and others of his times whose pitch was far higher than the ones that followed them. if even these pitches were considered low by accompaniments,PMI's views on pitch seem to be justified!!!
To my ears the contemporary Carnatic violin is actually tuned an octave higher relative to the pitch of the singer. Thus the violin for a high-pitched female singer (such as MSS) could sound very shrill in the upper register and violinists such as VVS compensated by switching to the lower octave (e.g. MSS at "chukkalarAyanEE" in "pakkalanilabadi"). But I have never heard any discussion about this except one mention in one of Rangaramanuja Iyengar's books where he has also expressed his displeasure at the lowering sruthi. We in CM are quite proud of our sensitivity to small differences in shruti (and rightly so in my opinion) but are absolutely non-discerning about octave differences.

Perhaps Chowdiah's violin was tuned to the same sruthi (on the "main" strings) as the singer and hence he encountered the problem that other violinists did not complain about, even when playing for MDR. I cannot tell for sure from the Chowdaiah recordings because the sound of his 7 string violin is so broad/resonant that it is hard to tell which octave he is playing in. Anyone else notice this phenomenon?

In any case, this facility of octave switching is easy for the violin (just change strings) but not so easy for the mridangam. I wonder if there will be any structural changes to the mridangam in the future to handle this problem -- my anecdotal tally says there are more male singers who sing at C or below these days than ever before.

-Then Paanan

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Thanks Thenpannan: That was illuminating--I had not noticed the point about MSS and VVS--astute observation.Like you I put more emphasis on the Vocalist's mastery over the Octaves and how clear the lower Panchamam sounds if at all the artist even dares attempt it without producing a "hiss" and leaving it to our imagination that he/she is touching it!!!

As an aside, this was brought to my attention in my earlier years of listening by MS Mami-- she will demonstrate(I even have a cassette recording where she has illustrated in one of our family sessions) how the octaves should be traversed and what does it take to hit the lower octave Panchamam(even Madhyamam in some cases) and how the top Panchamam should not sound shrill or or a "false' voice--she attributed it to Sadakam and used to cringe whenever people innocently comment on the "gift of her voice"(as if to deny her intense practice !!).

My liking for both Mali and TNR was that both revelled in touching the lower octaves with clarity and purity.(Note the TNR piece in Kambodhi and Charukesi posted in this forum recently by Thimma and Bilahari--how TNR has handled the lower octave effectively--this is for Vidyarthis to learn and assimilate.

YES,sometimes even if the pitch were right how the vocalist/Instrumentalist makes full use of the range is very important. I may be biased but I look for younger artistes today handling this aspect well--no matter how good their other attributes (of music I mean) are!!!

ugk
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by ugk »

Someone told me that Palghat Mani Iyer invented the Kappi mridangam. And that it did not exist prior to him
What do you make of this?

kam
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY

Post by kam »

Dear rasikas today is Sri Palghat Mani Iyer sir birthday.Here is a wonderful piece of him :

http://www.4shared.com/audio/V3A1mf-j/E ... ITIVO.html

advaitin
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by advaitin »

Kam

lovely clip, thanks

sivachinta1965
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Post by sivachinta1965 »

Rasikas

Anybody knows about the confrontation( on mridamgam) between Mani Iyer and Subbudu at Mullakkal Temple ( during concert), Alapuzha, Kerala?

Sivaprasad

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