Origin of Saptha Swaras

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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vs_manjunath
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Joined: 29 Sep 2006, 19:37

Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by vs_manjunath »

Can some rasika provide the Sanskrit Slokam which says how the saptha swaras were derived from nature(the sounds we hear from animals and birds; Vrishaba,Peacock,Cukkoo etc) ! Many thanks in advance

VK RAMAN
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by VK RAMAN »

Brahma was the origin of music inspired by Sama Veda. From one note, music progressed to three, then five & crystallized in seven notes, the Sapta Swaras - so says saigan.com/heritage/music/mus1.htm

vs_manjunath
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by vs_manjunath »

For completeness the Sanskrit Sloka is reproduced:

Shadjam mayuro vadati,
gavastu rishabha bhashinah,
aja vidantu gandharam,
crounchah quanati madhyamam.
Pushpa sadharane kale pikah koojati panchamam,
dhaivatam heshate vaji,
nishadam brahmate gajah.

Pratyaksham Bala
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

vs_manjunath,
Thanks!

The 3rd and the 4th sloka of Section 5 of nAraDIyA shikSA are slightly different :-

SaDjam vadati mayUrO gAvO rambhanti carSabham
ajAvikE tu gAndharam krauncO vadati madhyamam (3)
pUSpasAdhAraNE mAlE kOkilO vakti panjcamam
ashvastu dhaivatam vakti niSAdam vakti kunjarah (4)

Ref: http://www.peterffreund.com/shiksha/nar ... iksha.html

Pratyaksham Bala
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

For a related discussion, check this:
http://ssubbanna.sulekha.com/blog/post/ ... a-veda.htm

rshankar
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by rshankar »

As a tangent, here is an imaginative take on SaMkara's AbharaNa (adornments) in SaMkarAbharaNam, that describes Siva as the OmkAra nAda svarUpa and the sapta svara as his adornments:
s - sarpa
ri - rudrAksha
g - gaMgA
m - mRga
pa - pushpa (konRai pU)
dh - DamarU
ni - niSAkara - candra

vs_manjunath
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by vs_manjunath »

All the above links are quite interesting !

Rsachi
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by Rsachi »

Very imaginative interpretations. My own guess is that the seven notes came from human speech as the octave corresponds to the range our voice traverses normally to encompass the range of expressions or rasas. Also the notes as they are spaced have an inbuilt musciality in juxtaposition. It is interesting instruments across the globe have their music anchored in the seven notes, without the benefit of corresponding tropical animal sounds.
By the way I encountered an amusing Australian bird who came and sang in 4 notes..Very musically gifted indeed.Sure he would even have named the raga had he come down to the Dec. Vizha.

Here is a version which is analogous to our RTP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfaplSc5ieM&sns=em
Last edited by Rsachi on 07 Jun 2012, 17:41, edited 1 time in total.

vs_manjunath
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by vs_manjunath »

Rsachi wrote:By the way I encountered an amusing Australian bird who came and sang in 4 notes..Very musically gifted indeed.Sure he would even have named the raga had he come down to the Dec. Vizha.
Dr Balamurali would have named the raga sung by this Australian bird and also composed a melodious song.

Rsachi
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by Rsachi »

:) Possible raga names: Vihagapriya. KraunchiNi, Chanchunaata.

vs_manjunath
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by vs_manjunath »

True ! Since we already have "Hamsa" dhwani; "Garuda " dhwani;" Kokila " priya; " kokila" dhwani; also " Mayura" dhwani( other name for Andholika) one has to scratch a little bit before naming the raga !

Nick H
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by Nick H »

Lovely to see (and hear) bird song featuring in the forum :)

shankarank
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by shankarank »

This needs to be seen as a counter to the anthropocentric view of music and inclusion of larger natural phenomenon at a minimum. But there is every sense to me , in a culturally biased lens, that this is an expression of the sense of sacred in the musical sound.

Inspired to write on this - since I just returned from a trip to Meenakshi temple , Houston and did not miss listening to the peacocks in the shelter behind.

kvchellappa
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by kvchellappa »

Did it sound like shadjam?

shankarank
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by shankarank »

In what Sruti? That is why I am saying what I am saying!

SrinathK
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by SrinathK »

Every tradition is someone's idea that worked. But I think there is an actual basis for the 7 swaras.

To my ears, the vowels used in the sapthaswaras (the 1st 2 basic vowel sounds) resemble the sounds of plucked / bowed strings, the vowels sounds made by tapping a hollow container and some sounds made by the flute (the i sounds specifically).

To get an idea of what I mean, listen to a piano, a violin, a veena, a jalatarangam or a flute. I got the idea because as a kid I would imitate these sounds (and still can).

There is also a certain symmetry in the swara syllables - the eekara (Ri and Ni) is always the 2nd or the 2nd from last note in a complete scale.

And this. The a and ee vowels are also the ones that require the least amount of effort from your tongue and facial muscles - every other vowel is a more complicated movement (I tried). Compare the simplicity of S R G M P D N S with something like Do Re Mi Fa for instance.

kvchellappa
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by kvchellappa »

I had this doubt: whether the swarasthanas used (sa, ri, etc.) have something common with the letter sthanas (guttural, cerebral, etc. as in Samskrtam phonetics), unlike say Do re mi. I asked TMK and he replied 'I do not think so'. Interestingly, HM uses re, not ri.
I get some explanation why people go gaga over swaraksharas in sahityas, but not convincingly, because of my unfamiliarity with the exact swara sounds. My curiosity has been what is special about these phonemes (swaraksharas), when the swara is brought out in any other as well in a song and in akara.

kvchellappa
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by kvchellappa »

shankarank wrote: 29 May 2018, 10:38 In what Sruti? That is why I am saying what I am saying!
If you heard the sounds made by peacock, bull, etc. in succession, will you be hearing sa, ri, .. in the same sruthi?

shankarank
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Re: Origin of Saptha Swaras

Post by shankarank »

We have to do that experiment! May be we have to select our samples correctly to get it. zoo-musicology a new field will be borne. A prelude is available here in the pages that are available for preview.

https://books.google.com/books?id=vYQEakqM4I0C

Anthropology, psychology, bio-musicology, evolutionary-musicology - add this to the list.

You would have killed the poetic spirit of the original person who said it.

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