Reethigowla / Ritigowla

Rāga related discussions
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srkris
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Post by srkris »

Starting out with a great lec-dem by R.K.Srikantan on this raga on 18-Aug-2002. It is in Kannada, but is easily understandable to Tamils (it was to me, except for a few places)

http://ananyaculture.org/rks-talk.ram

Could someone knowing Kannada do a translation for everyone's benifit?

The lec-dem is followed by Mysore Vasudevachar's "Mama Hridaye"

Source page: http://ananyaculture.org/sangeetha.php

mahesh_narayan
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Post by mahesh_narayan »

Whenever I think of this raga, it is Sri. Semmangudi's Dwaitamu Sukhama that comes to my mind. The kriti, followed by torrential swaras, is always electrifying. Also Janani Ninnuvina, which he immortalized through his frequent renderings. Some other memorable listens for me are Sri. DKJ's Nannu Vidachi, my guru's Sadguru Swamiki, Ninnu Vina Mari Galada and Sri NilotpalaNayike (which my dad taught me after learning from Sri RRI's Kritimanimalai), and Sri MMI's Tatwamariya Tarama. Difficult for me to pick which stands out among these. Personally I would pick Tyagarajas's creations (Dwaitamu, Ragaratna and Nannu Vidachi), simply because he covered Adi, Rupaka, and also Misra Chapu talas. But for sheer raga bhava, I rate Sadguru Swamiki (especially the charanam) higher than other major kritis in this raga. Of course there are other kritis like (Badalika Dheera, Paripalayamam, Cheraravade, etc...but I rate them a tier below the above-mentioned kritis). Please note that my spectrum of known kritis is not very broad, just about decent.

Dikshitar's Nilotpalambam and Sri NilotpalaNayike are in the same raga right?
Last edited by mahesh_narayan on 24 Sep 2006, 20:32, edited 1 time in total.

Lakshman
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Post by Lakshman »

The first one is in nArirItigauLa and the second in rItigauLa.

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

One of my favourite rAgas certainly.I like ssi's rAga alapana ,mmi's tatvamariya. When I was in school I felt electrified while hearing santhanam rendering guruvAyoor appane (ambujam krishna composition). Also enna punniyam seidhenO by OVK , incidentally sung in lot of nAmasankeerthanam is wonderful.

mahesh_narayan,
Go to the link http://www.sangeethapriya.org/%7Etnbala/ and download the TS Balakrishna sastrigal ThyagarAjaKshetranam.zip . He talks for the first 45 minutes on Dwaithamu sukhama , incidentally it is an english kalakshebham. Absolute bliss, with TSBS lucid explanation, you will like it more...

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

Lakshman wrote:The first one is in nArirItigauLa and the second in rItigauLa.
I have read this statement before -But does it really make sense?

Would MD consider kalyANI and shAnta kalyANi as different rAGs ? Or would he consider vasanta bhairavi and vATi vasanta bhairavi as different rAGas? Then how could he call rItigouLa and nArI rItigouLa as different rAgas?

-Ramakriya

Lakshman
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Post by Lakshman »

I don't know but that is how they are listed in Vinai A.Sundaram Iyer's books.

Aravind
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Post by Aravind »

Namaste,

Here is my 2c.

A more relevant comparison in this context would be kharaharapriya - shri , harikambhoji - harikedhara gowla and not kanakambari and kanakangi.

I think Dikshitar composed nIlotpalamba bhajare in the present rIti gowla and shrI nIlotpala nAyike in nArI rItigowla. (BMK has not sung shrI nIlotpala nAyike in the original form)

nArI rItigowla being a mela in the old system with just n2.

From a laxshya aspect rIti gauLai is one of those few special rAgAs that was still evolving and taking shape during Thyagara’s time. Ananda bhairavi had existed for a long time and had accumulated enormous beauty and lilting phrases. This raga again was changing its shape during the trinity era. rIti gauLai absorbed some of old Ananda bhairavi’s sancharas and had it’s own beauty with the double nishada.

I think Dikshitar gave an earnest attempt to preserve the old Ananda bhairavi, Shastri gave the new Ananda bhairavi a front seat and Thyagaraja waved his magical wand on rIti gauLai.

Phrases like nityAnanda rUposmi, brahmAnanda rUposmi in AnandeshvareNa, hR^itkamalA nagara nivAsini in kamalamba samrakshatu etc show traces of old Ananda bhairavi that are now in rIti gowla.



Let me see if I can dig out some old AIR recordings of nArI rIti gowla.

srinidhi
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Post by srinidhi »

To add to the list- the beautiful Ata tala varna "Vanajaksha" by Veenai Kuppiyer. It has such beautiful, haunting phrases . Esp the 2nd of the Ethugade Swarams which goes something like "NPNNS NSGGM SM,MGR SG,GRS....( in mantara sthyai)

Mahesh_Narayan,

During his early years, Guruji had tuned "Abakara Nindai .." in reetigowla. It is now popularly sung in Chakravakam today, but there was a time when it was also sung in reetigowla. Do you remember it?

Vocalist
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Post by Vocalist »

My favourites
Guruvayurappane (Ambujam Krishna, tuned by TNS)
Thandava Dharishanam (Gopalakrishna Bharathi)
Nannu Vidachi (Thyagaraja)
Neelothpalamba (Dikshithar)
Enna Punniyam (Oothukkadu)
Ninnuvina (Syama Sastri)

nsbhushan
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Post by nsbhushan »

Our own DRS has composed and sung a kriti in nArI rItigowLa. Check the link http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=255&p=7#p5067

mahesh_narayan
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Post by mahesh_narayan »

Hello Srinidhi,
I am aware of Guruji's various compositions in this raga and learnt a couple myself.

In Shri RKS's kannada lec-dem on ritigowla in sangeethapriya.org, he lists 'parvatarajakumari' and 'Sri Dum Durge' as examples of kritis in this raga. Is there a sampradaya of these kritis being rendered in ritigowla?

Dr. Shrikaanth or anyone: I speak kannada to a decent extent, but I felt that Shri RKS's style of kannada was a little tamizhized. Some words he used seemed to be tamizh words. (like 'jeeva prayoga ella gavunisko beku'). Do you guys think the same? If not, maybe I need to improve my kannada a lot:).

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

mahesh_narayan wrote:Dr. Shrikaanth or anyone: I speak kannada to a decent extent, but I felt that Shri RKS's style of kannada was a little tamizhized. Some words he used seemed to be tamizh words. (like 'jeeva prayoga ella gavunisko beku'). .
No not at all. There is not even a trace. ANd there is no reason why it would be :) It is "gamanisa bEku".

mahesh_narayan
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Post by mahesh_narayan »

Thanks:). I picked up Kannada only through 'kelvi gnaanam'. Some more kelvi is needed:). Or gnaanam:). Whichever helps:)

Could you throw some light on the Dikshitar kritis mentioned above?
Last edited by mahesh_narayan on 08 Oct 2006, 05:22, edited 1 time in total.

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

mahesh_narayan wrote:In Shri RKS's kannada lec-dem on ritigowla in sangeethapriya.org, he lists 'parvatarajakumari' and 'Sri Dum Durge' as examples of kritis in this raga. Is there a sampradaya of these kritis being rendered in ritigowla?
I had not noticed this till you mentioned! He does mention there, but I have no clue if there was such a tradition anytime ?

-Ramakriya

Jyothsna_music
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Post by Jyothsna_music »

Does anybody have reethigowlai varnam rendition by any artist in adithalam. composed by Pinakapani


Rgds
Jyothsna SaiRam

venkatakrishnan
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Post by venkatakrishnan »

hi i am new here.i very recently listened to nithyasree singing nariritigowlai of dikshitar in some recording.it had traces of ritigowlai and natabhairavi.i learnt that nariritigowlai is parallel of natabhairavi in the asampurna paddhati.so can somebody throw some more light?

bhaktha
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Post by bhaktha »

Please refer the following:
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1225
-bhaktha

venkatanathen
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Post by venkatanathen »

Dear mahesh_narayan Ji,
Thank you very much for providing this link.

Thanks
Adiyen dasan.

rameshviyer
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Post by rameshviyer »

hi whenever i hear songs based either in carnatic or filmbased in reethigowla i feel more energised and great happiness why is this?

i have also tried to feel the same in other raagams but not able to feel the same effect.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

try this reethigowla for a change.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/v1bhoq

It is a bit out of the ordinary

music2407
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Post by music2407 »

hi ,

I am not able to listen to or download the sendspace file.any suggestions?

Vocalist
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Post by Vocalist »

if coolkarni (or someone who has the audio) could please reupload for us :)

shishyapriya
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Post by shishyapriya »

There is also a commerical recording from Aruna sairam - "Jo JO rAmAa" in ritigowlai

shabhutej
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Post by shabhutej »

Whenever i think about this raaga, 'Chara ravathe...." sung by young Vid.Balaji Shankar comes to my mind, with mannargudi's mrudangam! Thatz great performance....
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Last edited by shabhutej on 31 Jul 2007, 09:41, edited 1 time in total.

arunk
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Post by arunk »

A humble contribution: http://sunson.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/ ... ritigaula/ - my personal opinions on this raga, with some analysis and demonstrative samples.

Arun

balusatya
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Post by balusatya »

Brahmananadame Paramaguru Pada seva-a beautiful piece of Meesu Krishnier set to tune by Alatoor Venkatesa Iyer.

balusatya
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Post by balusatya »

Brindavana nilaye -OVK.

arunk
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Post by arunk »

yes brindAvana nilayE is a superb piece. I have listened to only one recording. Anyway I forgot to mention it

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

One of my favourites is SrI nIlOtpalanAyike, sung in (regular) rItigouLa by BMK and RKS

-Ramakriya

arunk
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Post by arunk »

? I thought it was nIlOtpalAmbAm bhajarE that was sung in that rItigowla? I know that is the one Sowmya has sung in D2 rItigowla in that CD set of all those krithis. This one is also sung that way?

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 06 May 2008, 01:35, edited 1 time in total.

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

Yes; You can find RKS singing it in the lec-dem on rItigouLa in the following link.

http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... index.html

BMK's pAThAntara, is almost the same as Sri R K Srikanthan's. It is available in several commercial recordings - and may be available on line. I have not checked.

-Ramakriya

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

BMK's SrI nIlOtpala nAyikE is supposed to be here, but I am getting a file-not-found error :(

http://www.sangeethamshare.org/sunil/gu ... M--BMK.mp3

-Ramakriya

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

ramakriya wrote:BMK's SrI nIlOtpala nAyikE is supposed to be here, but I am getting a file-not-found error :(

http://www.sangeethamshare.org/sunil/gu ... M--BMK.mp3

-Ramakriya
I too got an error for BMK as well as Soumya's- that's why I requested in the other thread

arunk
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Post by arunk »

ramakriya - Ah! i did not know that (i havent yet had time to listen to the whole lecdem of RKS).

BTW, did you read an article on sangeetham.com long ago by Dr. VV Srivatsa? His argument for nIlOtpalAmbAm to be in D2, and SrI nIlOtpala nAyikE to be the asampUrNa mELa one was the specific choice of words in the latter: "rItigauravE dEshika pradarshita cidrUpiNi nata bhairavE. Of course nIlOtpalAmbAm has rIti kauLinIm. Dr. VVS was giving special importance to the nata bhairavE (although shouldnt have been naTa or naTha to be of importance??? - but still ...). He views it has clues that dIkshitar left as acknowledgement-of and differentiation-between the two rItigowla's during his time. Thus the reference to the D1 rItigowla being similar/part of the 20th sampUrNa mELa etc. The choice of nata bhairavE in this specific krithi cannot be arbitrary and has to have musical significance. It is an intriguing argument.

Suji - i thought you were asking for the one with D1 (i.e. today's nArirItigowla)? I have heard Nityashree also sing SrI nIOtpala nAyikE in the D1 (nAri)rItigowLa.


Arun
Last edited by arunk on 06 May 2008, 02:40, edited 1 time in total.

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

arunk wrote:ramakriya - Ah! i did not know that (i havent yet had time to listen to the whole lecdem of RKS).

BTW, did you read an article on sangeetham.com long ago by Dr. VV Srivatsa? His argument for nIlOtpalAmbAm to be in D2, and SrI nIlOtpala nAyikE to be the asampUrNa mELa one was the specific choice of latter: "rItigauravE dEshika pradarshita cidrUpiNi nata bhairavE. Of course nIlOtpalAmbAm has rIti kauLinIm. Dr. VVS was giving special importance to the nata bhairavE (although shouldnt have been naTa or naTha to be of importance??? - but still ...). He views it has clues that dIkshitar left as acknowledgement-of and differentiation-between the two rItigowla's during his time. Thus the reference to the D1 rItigowla being similar/part of the 20th sampUrNa mELa etc. The choice of nata bhairavE in this specific krithi cannot be arbitrary and has to have musical significance. It is an intriguing argument.

Suji - i thought you were asking for the one with D1 (i.e. today's nArirItigowla)? I have heard Nityashree also sing SrI nIOtpala nAyikE in the D1 (nAri)rItigowLa.


Arun
With all due respect to Sri V V Srivatsa - I still think *all* compositions of MD in rItigouLa were had only D1; For Muttuswamy Dikshita, rItigouLa was the 20th mELa and it would have only D1. Would MD choose to compose one kriti in shankarAbharaNa and another in dhIra shankarAbharaNa? Or one in kalyANi and another in shAnta kalyANi, calling them as 2 different rAgas? I find the argument about rItigouLa and nArIrItigouLa two different rAgas for MD very similar!

The 'nata bhairavE' phrase may be an indication of the 20th sampUrNa mELa - True. There are other kritis where he has suggested the alternate names as in srI sUlini in shailadESAkshi and pAmarajanapAlinin in sumadyuti.

-Ramakriya
Last edited by ramakriya on 06 May 2008, 02:45, edited 1 time in total.

venkatpv
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Post by venkatpv »

the lakshana slokam given in the SSP says "ritigaula", although the ragangam is called "nariritigaula". SRJ mama says this very clearly in one of his lecdems.

IMHO, "rItigauravE dEshika pradarshita cidrUpiNi nata bhairavE." proves nothing.

edit:
ramakriya,
i am sure someone will quote Sivakameswarim, which has the raga mudra "Shanta Kalyana" :lol:
Last edited by venkatpv on 06 May 2008, 02:49, edited 1 time in total.

arunk
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Post by arunk »

venkat - No one is saying that nArirItigowla is different from rItigowLa in dIkshitar's system. That is sort of irrelevant here. Please read the import of the argument again. The point is whether dIkjshitar *could have* composed in the other rItigowLa which he most probablty wasn't oblivious to given that he interacted with tyAgarAja and his disciples. But again - this is just one argument. Obviously not everyone buys it.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 06 May 2008, 02:50, edited 1 time in total.

venkatpv
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Post by venkatpv »

i doubt it arun, because that goes against the very basis of calling ritigaula the 20th ragangam!

arunk
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Post by arunk »

you guys are missing the point. During dIkshitar's time there is no doubt that 2 rItigowlas were in practice. That is not the case for Sankarabharanam and dhIraSankarabharanam. Quoting that is a silly counter argument :)

Now it is certainly possible he did not compose in both rItigowlas - but it is theoretically a possibility. Like I said it is just an argument

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 06 May 2008, 02:54, edited 1 time in total.

venkatpv
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Post by venkatpv »

it is possible, ofcourse! but as i said, it defeats the purpose of calling it the 20th ragangam... thats my opinion.

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

arunk wrote:. During dIkshitar's time there is no doubt that 2 rItigowlas were in practice. That is not the case for Sankarabharanam and dhIraSankarabharanam. Quoting that is a silly counter argument :)

Now it is certainly possible he did not compose in both rItigowlas - but it is theoretically a possibility. Like I said it is just an argument

Arun
Arun,

Whether the argument is silly ;) or not, there were other instances of rAgas with dual identity during MD's time, but he chose to compose only in those rAgas that are seen in Muddu Venkatamakhi's rAgalakshaNa ( IIRC, abhOgi is the only exception).

My case with shankarAbharaNa and dhIrashankarAbharaNa, and kalyANI and shAntakalyANI, are just to illustrate how thin the difference is ( or non-existent) between rItigouLa and nArIrItigouLa when you look from the angle of MD or MV.

-Ramakriya

arunk
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Post by arunk »

ramakriya wrote:My case with shankarAbharaNa and dhIrashankarAbharaNa, and kalyANI and shAntakalyANI, are just to illustrate how thin the difference is ( or non-existent) between rItigouLa and nArIrItigouLa when you look from the angle of MD or MV.
And I did not deny this - but again look at it this angle. This is true ONLY for the D1 rItigowLa. Like I said, whether he composed in it or not, I would assume he wasnt burying his head, and closing ears to the other rItigowLa to believe it did not exist ;)

So during his time, among the music he was exposed to - there WAS a difference between rItigowLa and nArirItgowLa - of course only because there was another raga with the name "rItigowLa" - a raga in which one other composer he respected a lot, was simply was outstanding in. So I repeat this is certainly not the case as Sankaharabharanam vs. dIraSankarabharanam. That would have applied BEFORE the D2 version started showing up. It certainly was not a case like that during MD's time.

PS: to clarify I am not saying that for 100% sure he composed in D2. I dont believe there was 0% possibility either. I am willing to take it to 50% ;)

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 06 May 2008, 03:55, edited 1 time in total.

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

ramakriya wrote:BMK's SrI nIlOtpala nAyikE is supposed to be here, but I am getting a file-not-found error :(

http://www.sangeethamshare.org/sunil/gu ... M--BMK.mp3

-Ramakriya
try this link. It worked for me
http://sangeethamshare.org/sunil/gurugu ... M--BMK.mp3

shripathi_g
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Post by shripathi_g »


Vocalist
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Post by Vocalist »

arunk wrote:I have heard Nityashree also sing SrI nIOtpala nAyikE in the D1 (nAri)rItigowLa.
Yes, a lovely rendition too :)

Vocalist
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Post by Vocalist »

Vocalist wrote:
arunk wrote:I have heard Nityashree also sing SrI nIOtpala nAyikE in the D1 (nAri)rItigowLa.
Yes, a lovely rendition too :)
I mean Neelothpalamba - which is in Naririthigowla ;)

balusatya
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Post by balusatya »

ramakriya wrote:Yes; You can find RKS singing it in the lec-dem on rItigouLa in the following link.

http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... index.html

BMK's pAThAntara, is almost the same as Sri R K Srikanthan's. It is available in several commercial recordings - and may be available on line. I have not checked.

-Ramakriya
It is in Kannada!

balusatya
Posts: 320
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 17:17

Post by balusatya »

Suji Ram wrote:
ramakriya wrote:BMK's SrI nIlOtpala nAyikE is supposed to be here, but I am getting a file-not-found error :(

http://www.sangeethamshare.org/sunil/gu ... M--BMK.mp3

-Ramakriya
try this link. It worked for me
http://sangeethamshare.org/sunil/gurugu ... M--BMK.mp3
My preconceived idea BMK can not sing MD kritis as much as he could do for Thyagaraja &others has been changed after listening to this link.Thanks.

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

Thanks Sripathi & Suji Ram :) BMK's voice is in much better form than in his commercially available recordings of this kriti!

-Ramakriya
Last edited by ramakriya on 06 May 2008, 20:59, edited 1 time in total.

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

BMK sings this kriti with such ease that it seems so simple.
I tried(struggling) playing the pallavi and I feel that there are some intricately woven swaras which exist in other renditions I heard. MD kritis have that beauty.

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