Porambokku - T.M. Krishna - A song to raise awareness for environmental causes

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Jan 2017, 08:39

https://youtu.be/82jFyeV5AHM

http://m.timesofindia.com/entertainment ... 520252.cms

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 15 Jan 2017, 08:57

Carnatic song in Chennai Tamil, for a cause

seeks to create awareness on the importance of poromboke areas, which are being usurped in the name of development

Thirty years too late . Rip Van Winkles .One of them gave a lovely speech at the Hindu Lit festival exactly a year ago , to this date. He could have given a progress report on what he has achieved in the year .
Creating awareness .... aargh . This is some tilting at the wind mills

The list for the TO DO jobs for 2017 starts getting ticked .....

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 15 Jan 2017, 12:12

I think you are referring to Nithyanand Jayaram. Last I read, he was trying to raise awareness about a power plant coming up in the North Chennai area.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 15 Jan 2017, 19:41

Good effort. But there are several issues and singing in a carnatic style cannot resolve all problem.

TMK is pioneering it and we should wait and see if it brings any form of change. Whatever be the means, if there is a change on the horizon due to his effort we should appreciate it retrospectively then. These issues are far more serious issues than Jallikattu which the media, politico, and the bigwigs are up to the eyeballs.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 15 Jan 2017, 20:44

Porambokku - what does that mean in relation to the topic?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Jan 2017, 23:28

I think the everyday meaning is wasteland in the sense it belongs to the community at large and otherwise not used for anything. But just like marshlands they serve a very critical and useful function and in that sense it is not a waste land.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 15 Jan 2017, 23:50

TMK to TOI: "The greatest thing the project has gifted me is that it has shown me such an experiment is possible and has opened incredible doors for me and for so many others. Now, people from various communities can write songs for Carnatic music in the dialect they know. Even the music becomes accessible for people who do not come into Carnatic music because of the language. Kambhoji sung in Chennai Tamil will not feel as distant to them as Kambhoji sung in chaste Tamil"

I found the audio recording and the musical value very good.

We shouldn't make this another "For TMK, By TMK, Of TMK" issue. It seems to be a subject of much dispute where Nityanand and others have much to say. The video also somehow ropes in "the evil" of "Make in India". Did the Ennore problem come up after the Make in India initiative?

I feel "Not made in India" is as much an economic evil as (this video paints) the Ennore project is an ecological evil.

Just this evening, I went to a stationery shop to buy some stuff including a coloured thread to giftwrap some items. The shop-keeper confessed that the coloured thread, and almost all else in that shop, comes from China. I feel ashamed to use pencils, erasers, pen, and even paper not made in India. For a country that boasted so much of local manufacture, we have dried up the lakes of manufacturing expertise by pandering to the concrete greed of traders who import everything from Ganesh idols to LED lamps from China.

I feel someone should sing an anthem to "Make in India". Maybe Sanjay will oblige. He seems to be very much of the intelligence and ability to understand this issue well.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 16 Jan 2017, 00:59

There is a Make in India Ad Board with Modi's picture on it as you get into the duty free zone on the way out of India in Chennai Airport - just 10 steps away you will find a duty free shop selling foreign brand belts, polished. I asked the sales guy if he had Pondicherry Leather belt - or if there is any such thing. Reason for asking - I saw a documentary on the way into India in the Emirates flight ( on Demand TV) showing the same exact thing - how two small Leather product makers were struggling - and how the Pondicherry leather is durable - and products like the "Bus Conductor Bag" are very sturdy etc.

Along with that several artisans were covered including the one who makes the Tiara for Shirdi Saibaba in Andhra and another, Ali Baba magic lamps somewhere in Belgaum.

The Pondicherry leather segment coverage also talked about a Kapoor guy who has done a marketing strategy around it - branding it and concept selling it - you see that is the technique (struggling leather makers) vs. content ( providers like kapoor) conundrum. The leather product makers were not that bad - they employed lot of Women - probably Dalit women - but lacked market knowledge and access.

The problems are the same everywhere you go. Could Music Academy and the sabhas allow traditional artisans to open kiosks at the Sabha entrances?! Sure!

The small business person is glorified everywhere and but never factored or sympathized with.

As regards TMK raising these issues - it is distressing to note that this done under some NGO bandwagon.

It is not 30 years too late - this goes back 40/50/60 years. The scion of the TMK's family TTK was the one that was behind allocation of land to many friendly industrialists. I say that with gratitude not with Grudge - since from Tirukkurungudi to Madurai to Chennai and from employment to educational institutions to Music Academy ( you should see the photos of these people in the Academy president list ) we all benefited.

Should we say in the same line as the song - if they came then ( appOdu vandAl) - they will come now ( ippOdum varuvAn) - in the time dimension - instead of Space. The man who sings in Spaces has forgotten time altogether even in his music.

A person who sat in front of Doyens (Upanishad - sitting down) to get his music - has aligned with forces alien to the land and all his admirers look up to him in Awe!!

We can trace this back in time. The country went thru several turmoils.

We can start from Rajiv Gandhi and his strong majority government. He and Sam Pitroda started the Telecom modernization. Computers started making their way in. There was a Srilankan turmoil with possibility of Chinese sphere of influence there. The turmoil itself was fanned possibly using covert Western Intelligence operations.

The Bofors gun purchase ( where commissions are generally customary) - was raked up by a Swedish Radio - destabilization occurred and a weak government was installed. Mandal politics reared its head - fanned by our intellectuals. Kashmir started burning.

Country Went Bankrupt - we have a former Prime -Min assassinated - and boom our Oxbridge Scholar becomes Fin-Min. We start liberalization. FDI's have to flow in and can flow out over night with click of a mouse.

Profits are amassed and the profiteers go to Church on Sundays and put in their Dollars. Bigger ones donate to their Foundations. NGOs get funded and are allowed operations in the country unchecked.

While FDIs want their pound of flesh - their other eco-systems create turmoil by raking up all kinds of issues in reverse opposing the same thing.

We have Lit. (lot of litter there!) Festivals discussing fault lines - and Caste issues - forgetting that Caste is a Portuguese word: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta

We have a similarity to what was in vogue in Kerala - but that sounds more like co-existence with feudal characteristics - like the need to hold property and land inside the family. When people migrate there is always mixture happening - the people who do the migration have better skills just because of that - and greediness overtakes. But we have to compare the ideologies of the incoming here as well. This is taken as the moral equivalent of Islamic invasions with all its brutalities. Nevertheless it had its weaknesses and excesses where the same soul blessed by a Padri was welcome inside the home but not if he was otherwise - what Swami Vivekananda noted. So we had all the conversions and communism come up.

This is not a conspiracy theory - this is how their modus operandi has been for centuries. Right through history - if we a borrow a glib phrase from Chomsky's speeches.

If you saw the movie - ki-ka - I saw it in the same flight where I saw the documentary above - there is this dialogue by the father of the guy : behind every successful man there is a successful(?) woman. Behind every unsuccessful man there is a successful woman while handing over the reigns of his business empire to his daughter-in-law.

If our guys are successful Entrepreneurs - small business lets say - or successful artisans - or successful farmers - or successful soldiers/generals - or even successful learned men ( not just in Philosophy but also in material knowledge) - equivalent of modern professors - the women never felt oppressed! They seem to feel having a part in that success.

People employed though poorer may not feel that oppressed as well.

But once the guys become corporate slaves - the women start feeling some oppression. As I came into US the colleagues would describe to me the top executives who spend all the time at work - ignoring their families and there is lot of breakup also! This is not a generalization - but something to think about.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Jan 2017, 02:49

Shankarank: With all due respect, what is your point?

I say this in the most constructive manner possible and I hope you will take it in that spirit. You seem like an intelligent person with a lot of things to say and a fair number of opinions. I do not speak for all the readership of rasikas, but your posts are almost always impossible to fathom. Maybe it is because you want to say too many things all at once?

Here are some general rules of thumb that you might find useful. Perhaps it might help if you could structure your post with 1) a clearly stated position 2) appropriate background 3) arguments for or against the position 4) evidence for why you are taking your position and 4) what you would like the reader to do.

And please avoid jargon when you can. The writing is hard to follow as it is.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 16 Jan 2017, 02:57

Well if somebody like TMK sings a song on something that stirs up an issue against which you don't have an easy immediate argument, you will have to give a lot of back ground.

I could have said something in short pithy post - I thought this time I could avoid a long back and forth with sureshvv/NickH. May be that is unavoidable still.

May be we need a rasika Lit. Festival - instead of just Literature forum to enjoy language beauty - language in a museum!. We could have a long speeches and Q&A.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Jan 2017, 03:11

This note is to the general readership. Ironic, isn't it?

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 16 Jan 2017, 03:56

Ok lets ask the same question about the song. We want kAmbodhi to be enjoyed by people who speak Madras tamizh - not just chaste tamizh. Somebody sings a song in Madras Tamizh, nice kAmbodhi, nice Ananda bhairavi etc. Job well done. Carnatic Music reached common man on the street.

Applause!! Thats it!! ??

But what is all this stuff against make in India , environment and anti-Modi?. What is the point? Could we ask?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Jan 2017, 05:10

I actually felt a bit odd ( half way guilty) enjoying the music since that is not the point of the video, just the vehicle. I very much wish he ( and/or the lyricist) did not drag in the Make in India point since it is going to distract from the main message. That is so stupid of them to do that. I say that irrespective of one's politics, a lot of times what to leave out is as important as what you leave in.

This leaves me with one half baked thought. This work definitely does its job raising the awareness of the problem which is essential and necessary. The harder issue is what is the pathway to gradually improve the situation. I am sure he has many solutions. I consider myself a progressive/liberal socially, I would not readily trust any solutions that arise out of the strongly felt emotions of a liberal mind.

But then there is a need for a solution. What is it and who is the best person to lead that? Is it a technology problem ( regarding treatment and cleanup ), is it a 'rate of return' problem ( it is too expensive without any quantifiable benefit ) or just lethargy or something else. Once that is understood ( it is probably some or all of these ), then one can think of a long term solution that can be gradually implemented.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 16 Jan 2017, 08:33

The way the issue is being framed is more than opposition to Make in India or Modi. Those are strawmen. The issue is being raised because a government that got elected campaigning for Hindu heritage is doing these developmental activities. The current leader has some autocratic ways may be - but he has less time in a slow moving governance machine. These activities have happened elsewhere in India and there is always a price to pay and it may be poor people that may be paying the price. They must be compensated - and help could be provided to them in dealing with corruption.

People raising this issue must have consulted other experts to see if alternate solutions exist without causing this damage. Of course if we the carnatic rasikas - strawmen representation of uncaring elite middle class - should live without Petrol , electricity and with power cuts - that can be made within the ambit of our own cultural values. That is a larger conversation and requires a unity of a kind we have never seen to allow people to talk. No that is too casteist - also that has Hindu colors. It seems the only way to setup a conversation is to trash Hindu culture and gain attention of people that way. If we want to be sensitive to environment and use Hindu values to argue that - not allowed.

Alternately suppose we want our nation developed to compete against various other civilizations ( economics is war by itself - we need to know that) and we have to pay a price - no we cannot pay that price. Especially if a government elected by people who feel a connection to Hinduism does it. We cannot find ways to look into paying the price where the middle class , richer class , business class are taxed and tax is collected probably and the affected people compensated - no those are all things that will strengthen this nation and will only benefit the middle class - not inclusive - that is all Hindutva!! Cannot be allowed.

Modern middle class paying jobs cannot be created for everybody - and it is not all occupied by one caste or community. There is good diversity and with education - caste hierarchy is not felt in many of those organizations. There may be still weaker sections of society unrepresented - but mere representation is not going to solve their problems.

Soon the so called IT jobs will be the thing of the past : http://profit.ndtv.com/news/tech-media- ... ai-1645035

I know the country has people of other faiths and even within what we call Hindu - not everybody practices the version we know. But the other faiths we are talking about have negotiated their versions to syncretize with local values and where still problems exist must continue to do that - as their original version as it was imported is completely incompatible with any version of our culture - even if you dissect the word culture into religion ( deity worship ) and other things.

Further the argument goes : We the current rasikas of CM have been enjoying an appropriated music from some other castes anyway - who are not the real bhaktiman Hindus ( which is not really true) and they were oppressed anyways. So it is legitimate to appropriate the idiom from us and sing other things with it, but it should not imply anything larger about the culture - it should rile up those behind against those ahead - where those ahead got ahead because of cultural advantages and they don't have a political voice as well.

They have been silenced by all kinds of divisive politics engineered from outside the country from Dravidianism and so on.

No they cannot have a direct political voice from their cultural identity and bring points of view from that. That is Hindutva and should be banned. They should shed their identity and put their thoughts through the vetting process of the gate keepers of political conversation and then talk. They should also learn to talk through a new language.

See how this is going.

And we are letting this happen. He asks in many of his articles - how did we let Modi happen. I am asking how did we the CM community let this happen!

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 16 Jan 2017, 09:14

Sri.T.M.Krishna has won sufficient recognition , fame the world over, and wealth , by his 'conventional' CM concerts. retaining its devotional spirit.. Would it not be better , if he decides like Smt.MS, to sing in concerts in future and donate the proceeds to causes that he holds dear? He need not offend the sentiments of 'traditionalists' and I feel that if he sticks to the venerated traditions of Carnatic classical music and its stalwarts of the past, he will get unanimous support from all lovers of CM all over the world and raise a huge sum for his 'philanthropic' and 'social issues'. No one has any issues with his concern for the upliftment of under-privileged sections of society, environmental issues and issues like ending social evils like casteism and untouchability. Afterall these are all the ideals of all our national leaders of the near past. I would even suggest that he settles down in opulent USA and give numerous concerts for the well-to-do tamil and Indian diaspora there, who would gladly contribute. He can create an organization in India to spend the fund in doing creative work for spreading awareness among the public and removing the evils, as much as he can, through documentaries, and short films and even upload such videos in youtube. without mixing carnatic classical music. Great souls have been trying to do that for centuries with slow progress. The problem requires very deep thinking and structural change not only in the ruling circles but in the mindset of the people who elect them. ...

..Specifically, his video deals with unplanned expansion of the city caring little for the environment issues. ( mostly the handiwork of real-estate dealers, colluding -corrupt officials, indifferent press and housing shortage. ) Dr.Abdul Kalam has suggested his PURA SCHEME(Providing Urban Amenities to Rural Areas)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Providing ... ural_Areas
. to tackle this problem. Neither the old system of small villages nor the huge metropolitan development is good. Dr.Kalam suggests that the entire country should be planned by spreading out ( decentralize) , by planning and constructing medium towns with all modern amenities in education ( higher education included, ) , employment ,medical facilities, communication and fast travel facilities and such. Every such town will cater to a group of villages in its circle within a radius of not more than 30 miles. so that the students and workers need not leave their home in villages and can commute to the town in fast transit within one hour or even less. There are numerous temple towns of hoary past all over Tamil country, which are sadly neglected now. If Dr.Kalam's vision is implemented with such temple towns as centers, we will be tackling the disgusting problems of congestion, pollution and degradation of all urban centers and give a chance to preserve our glorious cultural treasures and lead to healthier and refined life for all. The problem of 'Deserted village' will vanish.

It may be even a prudent decision not to concentrate all our resources in select centers prone to destruction in just a few minutes in times of large scale war ( aerial )which can never be ruled out. The middle east is a gruesome reminder . It might have been one of the reasons why the Indian states encouraged spread-out settlements in the past.

How nice it would have been if such a talented musician like T.M.Krishna had avoided cheap gimmicks and done quiet constructive work, without spoiling the traditions of CM !. Smt.MS shawed the way. Even N.C.Vasanthakokilam left all her limited wealth for public charity.
The difference between Cultured Colossus and philistine 'poramboke's .

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 16 Jan 2017, 09:55

vasanthakokilam wrote: I very much wish he ( and/or the lyricist) did not drag in the Make in India point since it is going to distract from the main message.

I think their point was "Make in India" is subterfuge. It is the cover under which the plunder and pillage of nature happens to the detriment of society at large.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 16 Jan 2017, 10:03

shankarank wrote: May be we need a rasika Lit. Festival - instead of just Literature forum to enjoy language beauty - language in a museum!. We could have a long speeches and Q&A.

Either that or you are granted a forum for yourself where you can fulfill your "need" to your hearts content and interested readers can venture in at their own risk

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 16 Jan 2017, 10:10

Well I will ask the question TMK asked - have they read?, have they thought ?

prabuddha · Post by **prabuddha** » 16 Jan 2017, 10:19

One thing is inadvertently or by design, one question has got raised i.e., whether Carnatic music can have any social relevance. If it can, then TMK's current foray needs to be considered a pioneering attempt. If it can not or does not have any social relevance, we may rightfully criticize TMK. But then we also legitimize TMK's criticisms of CM, its milieu, its fans, its controllers i.e., Academy etc.

The third option is to say that social relevance is quite besides the point. CM's a traditional performing art and is to be nurtured and enjoyed as such. Other extraneous, (read modern socio-political) considerations need not be brought in here. This is reasonable except that it will box CM into a narrow socio-cultural milieu. This would give further grist to the CM basher's mill.

Unless CM is positioned differently, it seems to me that TMK holds some good cards in this debate.

Regardless, one has to grudgingly admit that the music of the poramboke album is quite decent.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 16 Jan 2017, 10:33

Prabuddha, I agree. I feel Carnatic music, being heavily lyric-based, lends itself to being a medium for championing social causes and ethical choices.

Ragi thandira, Kalabeda Kolabeda, Sangita gyanamu, jayati jayati bharamata, ayye meytakadinam, are all good examples.

TMK is strategically positioned to make a statement through music. But he can choose to accept a leadership role and bring about social change, or he can take a stance and make provocative statements once in a while and appear to be simply stoking up his popularity.

But music is not yet a political weapon.

The primacy is for musical aesthetic, and finesse in messaging. I think RKSK's music is the saving grace for this "number".

Some good topics for TMK to deal with:
1. Swacch Bharat and a toilet in every home
2. Don't bribe traffic cops
3. Adulteration of turmeric
4. Don't buy Chinese Ganeshas
5. Eschew ostentatious weddings
6. Evils of Facebook
7. Barkha Dutt, Prannoy Roy, Arnab Giswami and Cho, a comparative study (4 Raga RTP)
8. The evil of carpet bombing
9. Sunnis vs Shias and the role of Daesh
10. How Trump was helped by Russia
....

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 16 Jan 2017, 10:40

And this music largely belonged to the problem creating sector, an upper class, elite audience who cannot be reached through gaana song. I felt that this medium could take these thoughts to this group of people. It also introduces a different flavour to the music

So we are really empowered and we created all this problem - we demanded electricity and petrol! Has anyone ventured into the local ward office to complain about a faulty water connection or sewage connection - without of course some local political connections?

May be things are easier in the newly professionalizing Chennai! My brother had to catch multi modal transport to reach the airport on the day CM Jayalalitha passed away as they were retracting the news to release later!

If things are more easier now - it is not that the middle class / upper caste are empowered citizens via the constitution ( is there such thing in action? really?) - we are empowered only indirectly through an economic machine - everyone powerful knows they cannot ignore to not care. Else money will not flow into the coffers of government any more.

Our cultural heritage is no small measure contributed to put us in that place - and is being leveraged to serve so many economic interests not just domestic.

That is the middle class/upper class whatever he is referring to.

Pawns in the hands of global economic machine. Now we are being told by the intellects trained by them on how to converse and raise these issues. And we debate using the terms set by them - for if we cross the line - the media house ( for example the Lit. Festival runner) will not get its Ads. Even if we have a measure of economic success and our governments have some means now - they are making sure we are bogged down with all this cauldron they create through backdoor machinations.

And he is singing in Madras Tamizh to us - the CM audience - so we can be sensitized about this?? And those that are in awe are the very beneficiaries of this economic system and need it the most to be the way it is and grow further! And they are empowered to complain and make policy changes!

And it is due to our insensitivity that all these activities are undertaken the way they are!!

An anti-modi line will get all the media mikes in front of him quickly to create a sensation.

This is not about the environment or even about Modi. These are nit-wits to the core and useful idiots to the powers behind this.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 16 Jan 2017, 11:02

More grist to his mill
11. child labour in Sivakasi
12. Garbage menace in Shabarimala
13. Succession issue for Dalai Lama
14. Should Bharata Ratna be scrapped?
15. Micless, electricity less concerts protesting Kunnamkulam
16. Oliver Ridley Turtles
17. Beef ban
18. Ban elephants in Temples
19. Replace bulls with Transformer robots in Jallikattu
20. Ban tobacco and alcohol beverage ads...

Since my public awareness is guided by limited resources like The Hindu, please feel free to expand. We should give him 100 topics by Valentine's Day.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 16 Jan 2017, 11:27

prabuddha wrote: Unless CM is positioned differently, it seems to me that TMK holds some good cards in this debate.

Regardless, one has to grudgingly admit that the music of the poramboke album is quite decent.

CM (like any other art) is not one thing. It belongs to whoever that wants to adopt it.

The music is very good. All the raga transitions are very well done (as if those ragas fit like a jig saw puzzle).

Some of the ideas in the song may need to be fleshed out (like vk feeling "Make in India" is in contradiction). But we can discuss that.

If shankarank does not hijack this thread too to take the virtual bucket of cow dung solution and broadly smear everyone within sight in his quest to disinfect.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 16 Jan 2017, 11:40

Just saw the video in full (had only heard it a couple of times yesterday on my phone).

Hugely impressed. This may bring a whole new audience to listen to CM who may be avoiding it as some kind of "museum art".

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 16 Jan 2017, 11:50

Rsachi wrote: TMK is strategically positioned to make a statement through music. But he can choose to accept a leadership role and bring about social change, or he can take a stance and make provocative statements once in a while and appear to be simply stoking up his popularity.

Or he can serve as our collective conscience and question our choices and actions. He is doing it admirably here.

But music is not yet a political weapon.

It can be. Tool/Weapon enough to create the needed awakening. Has happened in the past many times.

The primacy is for musical aesthetic, and finesse in messaging.

No. The primacy is for the message to reach its audience.

I think RKSK's music is the saving grace for this "number".

Music is great. Execution is wonderful. But no.. this "number" needs no saving. Just hearing.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 16 Jan 2017, 11:58

Related video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEiMW0IGY8w

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 16 Jan 2017, 12:11

The quoted passage in Post #21 is from the Times of India article. You may need to read that in full to understand the context.

http://m.timesofindia.com/entertainment ... 520252.cms

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 17 Jan 2017, 01:44

sureshvv wrote:If shankarank does not hijack this thread too to take the virtual bucket of cow dung solution and broadly smear everyone within sight in his quest to disinfect

I don't need Cow Dung - the tie that they wear is good enough to hold them by their neck and shake them! Very convenient.

sureshvv wrote:Some of the ideas in the song may need to be fleshed out (like vk feeling "Make in India" is in contradiction). But we can discuss that.

There is this sensex India : http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/richest- ... topstories

and there is the maoist India - more poignantly captured for effect:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... epage=true

There is nothing in between - just nit-witism fanned by the same scholars in the West or their Indian sepoys minted in universities many times on chairs funded by the sensex riders.

And this man wants an apology : http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... r-4475456/ The intellectual and mental Jallianwala Bagh still continues! He thinks his eloquence on Oxford union will awe everybody. In reality it will be a glib one day laugh away!

If Britain indeed apologizes - that will be used to show how nice they are and continue the same thing in different form!

These people will not setup think tanks, universities in India and have a diverse set of ideas that are Indian and discuss our future.

If we cannot have Dharmic ideas - cleansed with cow-dung shall I say - and removed of what might appear to be injustices and harmful to the current mileu to bridge the gap between maoist and sensex - then I'd say lets follow Bharati's ideas - burn the world down if one person cannot eat.

May be what TMK is doing will help. He still took the rAga and tAla - the sam in sangeetham to build his song. After it is all burnt down - we can reconstruct.

What is the use of people who don't know the difference between the brahma mudiccu (knot) in their sacred thread and the tie knot on their neck with all its attendant moorings. They think the sacred thread is all about their clan purity and purity of their dwellings! Which is what caused the problem. They are in awe of intellectual dung being smeared right on their faces! They will understand neither Sanskrit nor the Madras Tamizh! They only believe that their heritage is just the manu-smriti that was written ages back for that time.. and cannot be changed!

It is remarkable that the one that hides the darshan of Nandanar is the bull if not the cow!! The cow/bull separates us from the untouchables literally and figuratively! Sooner we realize the better. Else we will be classified and othered as cow dungers!

We spent $2 Billion building temples in the U.S that the next generation may not come into - continuing the same rituals. The Cardio Surgeons of Indian origin who donated to many such temples are maya-vAdins i.e. world deniers! That is why they save so many lives too!

And we don't have one sound box auditorium to do our performing arts. We have bought into the idea that arts are completely devoid of any divinity. The next generation may need cultural content in IMAX or VR sets - true of not just diaspora - in India as well!

Where are the Indian think tanks? They are tanking inside these Litter Festivals!

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 17 Jan 2017, 09:51

Does anybody care? India's rich-poor divide is obnoxious, says study
In India where poverty is all pervasive, one latest study showcases how India's richest 1 percent now hold a huge 58 percent of the country's total wealth.
Published: Monday, January 16, 2017, 10:24 [IST]
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sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 17 Jan 2017, 10:07

These people will not setup think tanks, universities in India and have a diverse set of ideas that are Indian and discuss our future.

Why should "these people" do it? Why don't you?

Of course, you have made a good start by attempting to communicate a little more coherently.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 17 Jan 2017, 10:34

At this time I have only enough resources to try and shame some of the rich. I will try to see If I win a lottery.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 17 Jan 2017, 10:40

Good luck to you.

But they are shameless. So that ain't gonna cut it either.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 17 Jan 2017, 14:28

The ragas are:

Anandabhairavi
Begada
Hameer kalyani
Devagandhari
Salaga bhairavi
Sindhubhairavi

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 17 Jan 2017, 14:36

RSR wrote:Does anybody care? India's rich-poor divide is obnoxious, says study
In India where poverty is all pervasive, one latest study showcases how India's richest 1 percent now hold a huge 58 percent of the country's total wealth.
Published: Monday, January 16, 2017, 10:24 [IST]
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Everyone is quick to point out the problems but no two people are able to agree on any solution.

FWIW, the "DeMo" that is ongoing is being tolerated mainly because it is seen as an attempt to do something about the issue. Hope it bears some fruit and can be an ongoing effort.

Typical mentality is "I, myself, am noble, intelligent and sensitive. Everyone else is a rascal, idiot and thick skinned". So we are quick to find fault but do little to change anything!

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 17 Jan 2017, 19:31

I am not a native of Chennai. Yet I have been seeing Chennai during the past 50+ years. There was a time when Tiruvanmiyur ended with Marundeeswarar Temple - one could see the sea from the Temple. There was no Besant Nagar. Pallikkaranai marsh area was almost inaccessible beyond Lattice Bridge - there were only kuccha track beyond. In 70's, when I visited the Ayurveda Institute in LB Road, there were no housing colonies there. As late as 1998 when I went on scooter along with my daughter to Kelambakkam, the Pallikkaranai Road was not motorable.

In 2000, my daughter purchased our present flat on Tambaram - Velacheri Road. Then there were only five or so flats which had ACs. Now every house has, not one, but more than one AC. At that time there were only five cars in the complex of 100 flats. Now there are almost 30 cars and people are not coming to our flats on rent because there is no parking space.

In our childhood, we used to drink water straight from taps. When I moved to the present flat, the TDS of untreated water was 200. Today it is touching almost 1000. And when it reaches beyond 2000, ordinary RO filters will become useless. We are recycling the sewage water - we think that the water goes to nearby lake - it simply percolates to our wells from there.

In 2000, Tambaram Velacheri Road was almost deserted. Now the traffic resembles that of Mount Road in 2000.

This in brief the 'progress' of Chennai as I watched it grow.

Now we can blame the politicians who made a mess of this city - every city for that matter. But are they only to blame? Almost the whole of Tiruvanmiyur and Besant Nagar and complete apartment complexes on the Tambaram - Velacheri Road passing through Pallikkaranai Marsh land are not acquired by some foreigners. The kind of vehicle population on the roads does not come from foreigners. We the citizens of Chennai who have subscribed to every one of these so called advancements are responsible for the environmental degradation that has taken place. But when we moved in, we did not visualise that we will land up in this situation.

It is nice and fanciful for some great musician to sing in Pallikkaranai Marsh. Then prey tell me where he has his house? Who is responsible for the destruction of poromboke land of Pallikkaranai Marsh - aren't everyone of us?

During the recent cyclone, our apartment complex did not have electricity supply for almost a week. Then we realised how much we are dependent on electricity. I grew up in Cuddalore without ever seeing an electric lamp till 1960's. Where from this electricity comes? Isn't it a polluting industry?

There is a syndrome called 'railway comparment syndrome'. Till there is adequate space in the compartment, no one bothers. But when the compartment is full, the passengers resist new comers. This is what happening now in Chennai and other cities.

Everyone of the so called advances - plastic - automobiles - you name it - have come from the discarded stuff of Western World. Mr P Chidambaram tells glibly that he hoped auto sales would pick up - does he have any regard for the kind of chaos that is existing on the road. And we have swallowed everyone of these statements of Harvard Professors hook-line-and sinker.

It is like the gentleman who gets into his AC car and hurriedly closes the windows to escape the pollution - he does not realise that it is his car which is indeed polluting the environment.

What kind of glib talk is this - that someone sings in Pallikkaranai Marsh - as if he is some outsider? He has been very much part of this degradation of our environment. If anything we should atone for our sins by doing our best.

Can you stop using electricity? Can you stop using cars and that too with AC? Can you stop using plastic? Can you stop using AC in your houses? Can you stop purchasing flats in agricultural lands?

If your answer is no, then we are all simply pretenders masquerading as environmental activists - let us put an end to this hypocricy. Let us think in what way we can contribute to saving the environment. Let us act in our small ways to atone for our sins. Those who have contributed to the degradation of environment have no right to ridicule it. Hypocricy, thy name is man.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 17 Jan 2017, 20:55

Respected Sri.Sureshvv, I hope that you had read my post #15 . Dr.Kalaam has given a solution as PURA which I mentioned briefly with link. .and there are a number of people who are working along those lines, all over Tamilnad. without much fanfare. .. The issue is NOT whether CM classical artistes should make their effort to remove what they perceive as social evils. Kudos to anyone who has such social awareness . The problem is gigantic and no two people agree on universal solution, because it is an economic problem, and no easy solutions are available .
My request was , with all due admiration for the person's talent and effort, he need not use CM for this purpose, in this mode. You might have read about the interview given by Sankara Nethralaya executive, how in the centenary year of Smt.MS, he was able to collect a good amount through benefit concerts in US, though he himself does not know much of music. . Sri.T.M.Krishna can emulate Smt.MS in this regard.
rasikas is a forum for carnatic music and so it wont be appropriate to go deep into socio-economic-political problems in this forum except when it is relevant to the spirit of CM. Kindly do grant that people who voice their concern about the huge and increasing divide, could be doing their little bit in their own way. to correct the imbalance. .. Thank you.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 17 Jan 2017, 21:29

For us to do anything - we need some common cultural civilisational under-pinning and connection that gives us a sense of purpose , since sacrifices are called for. The reason for degradation so far is any good sense that is there from our heritage did not find expression.

It seems we cannot start the conversation without first solving problems of religious discourse, caste feelings, sensitivity issues, and ensuring equal right of dignity ( in their post modern avatar!) for everybody before people can talk.

If you listen to the link where N.Ram and Devdutt Patnaik converse you can see that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNCpWECSGR4

That is the left arguing for constitution as the basis of all existence - hypocritically - ignoring the bigotry of their own Marxist bias and lenses with which they read the constitution. Constitution's mandate for secularism is a limit on powers of the government when it functions using the powers conferred on it via the constitution and not on any private individual or organization ( formed by right to association under the constitution) , even people asking for votes. The politicians power to use religion ends when he/she takes oath - that too as part of government functionality only - not otherwise.

Cannot be extended to educational institutions funded by the government - their power ends at the class room door or the auditorium door after they funded it and facilitated it!!

May I ask what is the relevance of secularism in a Lit. festival discussion which is entirely funded privately? The left in India does not want to openly discuss the Abrahamic religions, especially Christianity. With funding dried up from Soviet Union , their funding is now from the western nations. Secularism is only a facade for a thinly veiled Protestantism underneath itself.

Religion , culture , caste are all part of what exists now - and there will be conversations based on that even when seeking votes as things do impact people as a group. We let them do this surreptitiously instead of having an open respectful conversation even without shedding our caste identities. Talking about caste or with sense of your caste identity was made politically incorrect in elite sections, but in Villages, or in the whole country that is not the reality!

That is a good leftist ploy to undermine the country's heritage as a factor in conversations, be it about public issues, amenities, dealing with local government etc. This will ensure that, they the well read, are the gatekeepers of every conversation in society and they are not there available, don't have the courage and cannot relate to people's problem - as their entire thinking is some utopia created in the academia.

That means some external concept ( secular, socialist) is imposed on us - and every caste, every community will have to now negotiate its place, a sense of its own with this Uber Utopian mind and we are all neutered, as all us of are rendered de-facto minorities. We have 1000s of so called castes co-existing for millennia without being on each other's throats ( to use a familiar phrase from another thread). N. Ram is talking about majoritarianism!!

With government running educational institutions we should have healthy religious content and debate in our education and not just put out the filth that left the supposedly unbiased social "scientists" write on religions.

Lets recognize that the so called diversity is expressed as caste as on one of it's manifestations and not coy about talking about it or talking with a sense of it.

First we should contain this left mania - and then we can talk about how to solve various issues.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 17 Jan 2017, 22:19

His freedom to write literature is the most important thing to discuss in litter festivals!!

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... 048899.ece

Could we learn something from how Gaunders as a community diversified from farming into textiles and succeeded in Tiruppur? Could we see how Vanniyars and Thevars could benefit from it in a different type of activity, using their social trust capital? No!!

We only need to defend the freedom of speech of a writer who seeks to provide material for Chicago scholars of Hinduism to write up and discourse on some community to their Christian network - so they can be maligned in pamphlets and conversion machine can operate!

And we use our litter festivals to debate and defend this freedom of expression!!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 17 Jan 2017, 22:30

The reason for degradation so far is any good sense that is there from our heritage did not find expression

The reason for degradation is that parents did not succeed in passing the "heritage" to the children. Never mind all your religion, caste, nationality, nationalism, right, left, middle, "liberal"-as-an-insult. What matters is proper human values, and they have the same names whatever the names of the gods or even the countries. Same problem, same world: all of it. The rest is all dressing.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 17 Jan 2017, 22:56

What is this proper Human values - and who decides that? A new church or pope? Should we have a leftist revolution to settle on something? All attempts at homogenization have resulted in mass Genocide - right through history - to use that Glib Chomskian phrase again!!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 17 Jan 2017, 23:28

What is this proper Human values - and who decides that?

You for one. Me for another. You need a priest to tell you what is good? I don't.

But hey, don't let me interrupt your rant. There were some good elements, there were several things here and there that I agreed with, but now it is just a diatribe.

Anyway. Carry on.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 18 Jan 2017, 03:01

Nick H wrote:You for one. Me for another. You need a priest to tell you what is good? I don't.

So you never heard of decentralized cultures where ideas of goodness float up using social interaction? You only know the church? Or the reasoning and logic taught by our education system good enough? Their used to be a moral science class - I used to later think where is the science in it?

I will tell you - even you needed the priests indirectly, because what you consider as goodness you learnt by questioning or criticizing them.

A version of liberalism can be arrived at by such a questioning which happens within the culture itself - and in the Indian case there is a healthy respect for those who have not had the means to do that and come out of it - because their economic needs/conditions don't demand that. Even there they are softened by the sheer diversity of people/groups around them and they are forced to respect differences. The left never understood that.

The left's way of criticizing cultures though is a perverse thing by itself and they will never learn goodness - they lie and lie to obtain their uber power!

In the U.S waves and waves of immigrants don't rile up against the perceived discrimination and become successful economically and may still never equal themselves to the people from the dominant culture.

But the erstwhile minorities went into this bitterness fueled by leftist philosophies and they could never achieve success! If they had worked with the dominant culture silently they could have achieved greater success!

My diatribe or rant against the left continues!

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 18 Jan 2017, 11:41

vgv
your post # 36 is very comprehensive and poignant. My mind went back to a classic scene in Orson Welles's movie - Magnificent Ambersons .Which I have clipped and put here
https://archive.org/details/MagnificentAmbersonsX14
Sometime ago I reviewed this movie in my own blog
https://wordpress.com/post/rasayanakarn ... s.com/3962
Time and Tide wait for none . The irony gets more bitter when we realise there is little around that is not poramboku. Save our inner most feelings.

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 18 Jan 2017, 19:28

Varsha,
Thanks for understanding my feelings.

A few years back, I was going through a hundred-year archive of National Geographic Magazine. In the early 20th century, Americans, according to an article therein, admired the Japanese. A Japanese Professor was touring America lecturing. He was asked as to what the secret of Japan was. And he replied, when we plan, we plan not for the present generation, not even for the next generation, but for the third generation.

Here we are, we have arrogated everything to ourselves. I am in the seventies and I have lived a life of contentment and even my children have seen the best part of their lives. But I am worried as to what is going to happen to my grand children, and their children. It is a nightmare for me even to imagine. Probably our grandfathers felt the same way about us too.

As you say 'let us save our innermost feelings'.

But again, having come to stage of realisation that the Universe is not run by some central authority - the authority is vested right in us - each one of us - leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. The Universe as it is, is a great experimental lab - only the best - not from the fitness point of view - but from harmony point view - survives; everything else is discarded ruthlessly. With the endowment of such a wonderful instrument called 'intellect' man has made an ass of himself - at least the majority of us.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 18 Jan 2017, 19:40

IT is currently said that hope goes with youth and lends to youth its wings of a butterfly; but I fancy that hope is the last gift given to man, and the only gift not given to youth. Youth is pre-eminently the period in which a man can be lyric, fanatical, poetic; but youth is the period in which a man can be hopeless. The end of every episode is the end of the world.

But the power of hoping through everything, the knowledge that the soul survives its adventures, that great inspiration comes to the middle-aged. God has kept that good wine until now.
GKC

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 18 Jan 2017, 22:06

If this " vandiyile nellu varum " has been properly picturized,. it coudl become much more popular than pormabukku

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUFAyidr6mU

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 18 Jan 2017, 22:11

vgovindan wrote:
The Universe as it is, is a great experimental lab - only the best - not from the fitness point of view - but from harmony point view - survives; everything else is discarded ruthlessly.

I think you may be onto something

Care to elaborate this harmony thing a bit more? May be "survival of the fittest" needs to be rethunk!

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 18 Jan 2017, 22:39

When TMK said his role as an artist is not to provide religious services to his rasikas - I thought that was a good idea. Too many are blinded by just a crass concept of bhakti - that they cannot distinguish between good and bad performance - and they get up during Mridangam tani and walk away. They don't know the difference between the trinity's concept of viSrAnti sangItam and the rest.

But I did not realize he meant something else entirely.

As regards environment issues :
One of my earlier colleagues a particle physics Phd that came to do programming ( he couldn't teach math in a Univ. as he saw little interest in students) used to talk about this: http://www.seasolarpower.com/

The company had made advances in materials with good heat transfer coefficients - but the governments will spend on basket ball stadium than something on this. And mostly the intellectual property will be stolen by sharks - so the company that is thinking this is also wary of taking funding!

So the fight is between two greedy people. In a dharmic discourse with a sense of sacrifice this could be resolved - but we are not even able to build on our current IT strengths.

We cannot even have a natively developed payments gateway and relying on paytm a chinese company!

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 18 Jan 2017, 22:50

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Econom ... 044486.ece
This is the OXFAM report
Among the richest persons mentioned in this report, I find Ajiz Premji and Shiv Nadar. May be that they have acquired a lot of wealth but they have transformed the lives of literally lakhs of rural youth from tamilnad during the last two decades. , beyond the wildest imagination of the beneficiaries themselves. We owe a debt of gratitude to the Indian software companies for having saved India from severe trade deficit crisis over this period, that too without exporting either raw materials as do under-developed economies or by exporting goods badly needed by our own people. Our economic development model , is largely based on local market. unlike even China which has accumulated huge reserves by export only. .
Next in the list is Mukesh Ambani. He has largely made India self sufficient in oil and gas exploration in co-operation with ONGC. And has contributed to the Green Revolution by production of Fertilizers.
Lakshmi Mithal is a pride of India who is turning the tables on the West in Steel Industry. India is the second largest producer of Iron and Steel, next only to China. It has already overtaken USA and Japan.
I do not know about the others mentioned in the report. Have to Google.
I believe that the above industrialists are also contributing to many philanthropic activities. in India.
Such industrialists, are termed as National Bourgeois in political economy. They are not 'compradour' or lumpen bourgeois ( example) Film and Entertainment industry. The National Bourgeois produce the infrastructure. Our economic model charted out by Jawaharlal Nehru is good. It has made our country self reliant. but Distributive justice is lacking. Land reform measures should aim to make all agrarian labour,, owners of land . This imbalance can be set right within a short time by political will . Decentralization and a bit of more attention to family planning drive and even distribution of population will make India a glorious land. Vision 2020 of Dr.Kalaam. . it is a good thing that cars, scooters and bikes are manufactured in large numbers .Nuclear power will tackle the problem of pollution. Solar power also can be abundant.(electric small cars) With PURA , its benefit will make rural life a delight. Punjab and Haryana have been transformed totally for the better.... While the West's prosperity is based on exploitation of poor countries rich in raw materials, and on collaboration between the military and industry ( war industry) , India has not so far been an imperialist country. Let us hope that the political leadership remains vigilant to prevent such expansion. With our poor brethren as in Africa, India should concentrate on aid and not on trade.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 18 Jan 2017, 23:42

We have not in sourced strategy , thinking , talking and even language! We need externally educated scholars with their ideologies and agendas on the pay roll of global think tanks.

For this Ennore project there would have been a big 4 consulting firm ( a Mckinsey for e.g) with a million pay out. Then billions pour in. To solve this issue there will be another big 4 engagement - millions out and then billions out !!

Lets first change that!

In the U.S, a taxiwala company Uber is trying to disrupt auto ( why own a car which sits idle 80% of the time) and finance ( payments gateway) and may be the Nadar Annachi ( grocery delivery also) both and attracting talent from Google and Facebook!