balahamsa

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 10 Oct 2006, 05:04

Over the weekend I attended a flute/gottuvadyam katcheri here. The very last piece they played was Tyagaraja's Dandamu Bettedanura in Balahamsa. I would like to learn more about this ragam. It seems to belong under Harikambhoji mela and had a nice feel to it.
How come we don't hear this ragam much in concerts?

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 11 Oct 2006, 22:13

Balahamsa:

Aa: S R2 G3 M1 P D2 S |

Ava: S N2 D2 P M1 G3 R2 S||

Nishda varjya in Aarohana and Sampoorna in Avarohana.
This is janya of Harikambodhi.

One more version is Aa: S R M P D S|
Ava:S N D P M R M G S ||

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 12 Oct 2006, 03:09

Thanks, Manjunath. Can someone explain why there aren't many kritis in this ragam. Seems to be a 'solid' ragam.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 12 Oct 2006, 03:26

IIRC tyagaraja has composed at least 6-7 kritis in balahamsa. Much more than rAgas like ranjani or abhOgi

On another note, the only kriti I have heard in a concert in balahamsa is danDamu peTTEnura. Can anyone upload any other audio examples?

-Ramakriya

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 12 Oct 2006, 03:37

I have 54 kritis listed under balahamsa.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Oct 2006, 21:51

I think looking at # of krithis composed by Tyagaraja as some sort a reliable indicator directly proportional to how "big/small" a raga was at his time seems like a flawed approach. Sure there is a correlation but it is a rough correlation and you can only take it so far. Even with # of krithis, wouldnt you have to look further into other factors like how "complex" the krithi is (# of sangatis, 2-kalai etc.)?

W.r.t balahamsa, IMO it seems to be characterised (nowadays atleast) mainly by variations of one prayoha - r/mgs? Would that be correct/fair? I dont know if it has other unique characteristics to separate it enough from other more popular harikAmbhOji janyas - as in to do very elaborate renditions by many people? Maybe that explains it's rarenesss nowadays?

But it definitely is a catchy raga and I like it a lot actually. I do like to see it get a bit more attention. Now that I think more, I see it sort of like sAranga - has one very very characteristic phrase (which also makes it extremely catchy IMO). I think sAranga is more popular but only by a little.

There is a gOpAlakrishna bhArati composition - vandAlum varaTTum, which Sowmya sings and is a nice one.

You can also listen to ninuvinA gathi (Mysore Sadasivarayaru?) at MIO.

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 12 Oct 2006, 22:32

arunk wrote:I think looking at # of krithis composed by Tyagaraja as some sort a reliable indicator directly proportional to how "big/small" a raga was at his time seems like a flawed approach. Sure there is a correlation but it is a rough correlation and you can only take it so far. Even with # of krithis, wouldnt you have to look further into other factors like how "complex" the krithi is (# of sangatis, 2-kalai etc.)?

Arun

I agree to that - But my point was to illustrate there are a number of compositions in this rAga.

Also, it shows that the rAga was quite popular during pre-tyAgaraja times. For most of his new melodies (typically harikAmbhoji/kharaharapriya janyas) tyAgarAja generally composed one or two pieces while he chose to compose more for balahamsa is illustrative of the times.

Of course you have to look into how 'deep' the compositions are. But we should also not forget tyAgaraja for whatever reason chose to compose very simple kritis in rAgas like Anandabhairavi (sure I know the story

), yadukulakAmbOji, (correct me if I am wrong on this), punnAgavarALi etc while these rAgas by themselves are not 'light' by nature.

-Ramakriya

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Oct 2006, 23:14

ramakriya wrote:I agree to that - But my point was to illustrate there are a number of compositions in this rAga.

Also, it shows that the rAga was quite popular during pre-tyAgaraja times. For most of his new melodies (typically harikAmbhoji/kharaharapriya janyas) tyAgarAja generally composed one or two pieces while he chose to compose more for balahamsa is illustrative of the times.

And this is where IMO we are reading way too much. It may be a personal preference as in reflecting tyAgarAja's tastes as opposed to reflecting "general" preference applicable to cm arena those times.

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 12 Oct 2006, 23:17

Or possibly tyAgarAja chose to compose more in balahamsa for exactly the opposite reason- that balahamsa was becoming rare and he wanted to establish the rAga clearly for posterity. MD has composed too though no one ever sings it (AFAIK)

arun
sAranga is way way more popular than balahamsa. No comparison there.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Oct 2006, 23:22

drshrikaanth wrote:Or possibly tyAgarAja chose to compose more in balahamsa for exactly the opposite reason- that balahamsa was becoming rare and he wanted to establish the rAga clearly for posterity. MD has composed too though no one ever sings it (AFAIK)

Yes possible. That does imply that tyAgarAja also chose rAgas for reasons beyond personal expression. Now MD we think did that at least based on his religious adherence to asampUrNa mELa system. But tyAgarAja I am not sure to what extent. But still definitely possible.

drshrikaanth wrote:sAranga is way way more popular than balahamsa. No comparison there.

Agreed. Just like balahamsa, I am a big fan of sArangA and this may reflect my "need for more" translating to "not enough"!

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 12 Oct 2006, 23:37

dIkShitars "guruguhAt anyam najAnE" in balahamsa

http://rapidshare.de/files/36490511/gur ... davalli.rm

I think we should keep each rAga discussion separately and not dump them together. Gets lost completely when one tries to search again.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Oct 2006, 23:41

drshrikaanth wrote:dIkShitars "guruguhAt anyam najAnE" in balahamsa

http://rapidshare.de/files/36490511/gur ... davalli.rm

Thanks! I will listen to it asap.

drshrikaanth wrote:I think we should keep each rAga discussion separately and not dump them together. Gets lost completely when one tries to search again.

I also agree. In fact a few minutes ago i was pondering posting exactly that in this thread!

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 12 Oct 2006, 23:45

List of compositions in balahamsa

http://indiamusicinfo.com/songs/raga/balahamsa.htm

unnaiyallAl gatiyAr of papanasam Sivan seems to be a faithful facsimile of sadASivarAya's "ninu vinA gati"

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 12 Oct 2006, 23:56

More balahamsa to hear- from MIO

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/c ... ragam.161/

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 13 Oct 2006, 02:05

Thanks for the info on Balahamsa.
Now I feel I should have put this under a separate thread for Balahamsa! Can some of the admins out there help out?? I am quite ok with this.
Perhaps we can use a MISC type of thread for general discussions on ragas.

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 13 Oct 2006, 12:05

balahamsa is a ragam which has been made scalar and non-gamakkaish by the popularisation of the plain version of the utsava sampradaya piece 'dandamu pettenura'.

I have listened to quite a few of the other compositions in concerts and of the same utsava sampradaya kriti with gamakkams and just feel bad that the ragam is not being sung all that much these days.

well, such arguements for good ragams being neglected are applicable to a lot of ragams. what can be done?

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 13 Oct 2006, 12:31

rbharath wrote:balahamsa is a ragam which has been made scalar and non-gamakkaish by the popularisation of the plain version of the utsava sampradaya piece 'dandamu pettenura'.

Is this really an utsava sampradAya kriti??

-Ramakriya

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 13 Oct 2006, 15:57

if it isnt a utsava sampradaya kriti, then it might be part of the one of the operas composed by tyagaraja swami.

i could be wrong. i just vaguely remember somebody mentioning it is a utsava sampradaya kriti at some concert.

correct me, if it is wrong.

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 13 Oct 2006, 18:44

I was under the impression it was an utsava sampradaya kriti too...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Oct 2006, 19:55

rbharath wrote:balahamsa is a ragam which has been made scalar and non-gamakkaish by the popularisation of the plain version of the utsava sampradaya piece 'dandamu pettenura'.

I agree that some (most?) renditions of this krithi does come off as more "folkish". But whether balahamsa was a gamaka-laden raga (and hence has been diluted over time) - is there more related info? I ask this specfically about balahamsa only because there are schools (like B-M etc.) who sing almost all ragas with more gamakas compared to other schools. You listen to balahamsa (or other ragas) from such a school and compare it to folksy/"plainer" renditions, one can reach conclusions which could be over-reaching.

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 13 Oct 2006, 20:02

It is very reasonable to expect balahamsa to have its fair share of gamakas. We still see MRMGS, rendered with jAru. It cannot be otherwise. Also, if you just take the scale, it is very similar to erukulakAmbOdhi/kAmbOdhi. The uttarAnga is identical in any case (save the occasional N3 in YK/K). It stands to reason that gamakas will help differentiate this rAga from others. It sounds horrible if sung with plain swaras. And daNDamu peTTenura (going by BMK's rendering) sounds atrocious IMO.When you think of it as a utsavasampradAya kIrtane, it sounds passable.

Ashwin · Post by **Ashwin** » 13 Oct 2006, 20:29

It would probably be instructive to examine subbarAma dIkShitar's aTa tALa varNam, SRI rAjAdhirAja, for which there are both svarA and gamaka notations in the SSP. From what I have learnt, there seems to be an equal emphasis on gamakAs and plain notes. In renditions of evvarunnAru nannu brOcEvaru that I have heard, RMGS is almost always taken plainly without gamakAs.

Ashwin

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Oct 2006, 20:35

In it wasnt clear, i didnt mean balahamsa was always relatively plain/scalar. I was asking whether we know (from authentic renditions etc.) if it had more specific (to balahamsa) gamakas besides that one special prayOga. I can certainly understand that it had its fair share of gamakas like most ragas - and any dilution is bad.

Arun

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 14 Oct 2006, 00:01

I have heard the following versions of some balahamsa kritis:

Sri T K Govinda Rao singing 'ika kAvalasinadEmi', a tyAgaraja kriti.
Smt R Vedavalli singing 'guruguha', the dikshitar kriti.
Sri R K Shriram Kumar singing, 'parulanu vEDanu', another T kriti.
Smt Charumathi Ramachandran singing, 'danDamu'

and all of them have a good measure of gamakkams in them.

incidentlaly, www.karnatik.com lists 8 kriti of tyagaraja in balahamsa.

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 14 Oct 2006, 09:03

To add to Bharath's list, I have also heard Nedunuri Garu rendering 'talli taNDrulu' of tyAgarAjA.

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 30 Oct 2006, 20:43

Two Thyagaraja Krithis in Balahamsa has been printed in the book " Shatha Keerthana Swaravali" by CS Krishna Swamiah, a Disciple of Patnam Subramanya Iyer, published in 1911 at Madras. "ninu bhAsi" and "parulanu vedanu" are these two songs.

sr_iyer · Post by **sr_iyer** » 13 Nov 2006, 21:17

Sri Tyagaraja's kriti virAja turaga in balahamsa as played by Sri Lalgudi can be listened to at http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~asokan/C ... -KGS1981)/

(virAja turaga is song number 08, which is not labelled)

The ciTTasvaram is composed by Sri LGJ to my understanding.

VISHNURAMPRASAD · Post by **VISHNURAMPRASAD** » 16 Nov 2006, 03:37

Interestingly, many years back (roughly about 15 years back) On the radio 9.16 pm concert at Madras A, I have heard a krithi starting with "Evarunnaaru" and having the word "inakula chandra" in the raga Balahamsa. Sung with a short crisp alapana, followed by the Krithi and very neat swara prasthara ending like "Pa ma ri ma ga sa.. evarunnaaru!" It is still lingering in my ears! What a neat presentation that was!

The most interesting news is that, the singer was none but the great cine musician T.M.Soundararajan. That was a revelation for me after which i managed to listen to one of his Thyagaraja Aradhana concert at Thiravayyaru, where he sang some rare ayyarvaal krithis. I heard from my AIR employee friends that TMS was a performing 'A' grade artiste both in carnatic music and devotional music in the AIR for more than 4 decades.

kmrasika · Post by **kmrasika** » 24 Nov 2006, 07:07

"evarunnAru nannu brOcEvA inakula tilaka ShrI rAmacandra" is a composition of maisUr sadAShiva rAU, of course, in balahamsa. Smt suguNA purushOttaman has rendered it as the first item in her commercial release.

Other pieces other than those mentioned in this rAga:

nIlalOhita ramaNi - UtukkADu kAmAkshi navavarNa kriti
conna col nIyE - ambujam kr.shNA

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 25 Nov 2006, 04:54

More balahamsa to hear- from MIO
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/c ... ragam.161/

I agree BMK's rendition is pretty boring. He seems to sing in this 'flat' style often.
The Ninnuvina by TP Vaidyanathan (who is he?) is much better.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Nov 2006, 07:38

http://www.rogepost.com/dn/bwdr

desamangalam subramanya iyer

***

http://www.rogepost.com/dn/wxx0

Parulanuvedanu-Balahamsa.-brinda muktha

****

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 26 Nov 2006, 07:53

coolkarni wrote:http://www.rogepost.com/dn/bwdr

desamangalam subramanya iyer

Kji: that was a very soothing clip. Who is this vaiNIka and what is the song he is playing?
Ravi

meena · Post by **meena** » 26 Nov 2006, 08:18

shankar

veena vidwan sree Desamangalam Subramania Iyer
Deleted

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 26 Nov 2006, 08:53

Thanks Meena. That must indeed be a VERY rare track that Kji posted. And it was indeed SWEET!

rajesh_rs · Post by **rajesh_rs** » 12 Oct 2008, 05:43

Parts of Parulanu vedanu were used by the Colonial Cousins (Hariharan and Leslie Lewis) to create a song on their debut fusion album "Colonial Cousins"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Oct 2008, 08:16

Rajesh,
Who are the colonial cousins? Never heard of them...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 12 Oct 2008, 12:47

Hariharan is the famous ghazal singer. He teamed up with Leslie Lewis a jazz musician to form colonial cousins sometime in the mid 90s. They had a few hits on MTV in those days including a version of Krishna Nee Begane Baro (which was indirectly responsible for my own subsequent conversion!). I don't know if their Act is still on..

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 12 Oct 2008, 12:52

Yes, this ckipping most of us have enjoyed. krishnA nI begane baro in the MTV hits.

rajesh_rs · Post by **rajesh_rs** » 09 Dec 2008, 23:33

arasi wrote:Rajesh,
Who are the colonial cousins? Never heard of them...

This is a very late reply and I apologize. The Colonial cousins were a Indipop/fusion group formed by Leslie Lewis and Hariharan. Apart from the Balahamsa kriti I mentioned, their debut album contained memorable renditions of Krishna Nee Begane Baro (Yamuna Kalyani) rendered in fusion with English lyrics, along with a very catchy Hamsadhwani alapana in a song called "Let me see the love". One of my favourites on this album was "Indian Rain" which contained alapanas in rag Megh (Hindustani, rendered movingly by Hariharan).

vivekt17 · Post by **vivekt17** » 17 Dec 2009, 09:32

Do you remember which song it was that had the balahamsa piece in it? It was very long back. But I remember vaguely - I loved the parulanu song very much.

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 07 Feb 2019, 11:59

Found this thread hiding in the archives just now. Request mods to merge it with the other thread.

bhakthim dehi · Post by **bhakthim dehi** » 08 Feb 2019, 12:23

@SrinathK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Uq7gWFsNI

This is for you to break your head

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 08 Feb 2019, 12:49

@SrinathK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Uq7gWFsNI

This is for you to break your head

The old Walajapet version of balahamsa sounds more like some combo of kedAragauLa and janaranjani with a tinge of a G2 to my ears!

You know what, now I realize that the very origin of retuinitis was embedded in the musical values of those times. Everyone took liberties as ragas appear to be much more loosely defined.

We should probably just fix a prefix - prAchina to these rAgAs to distinguish them for the current versions. The questionable authenticity of the sangraha chudamani nothwithstanding, Thyagaraja and Dikshitar already had their differences in those days. What happened after them essentially created two different sets of raga systems.

So this will be prAchina balahamsa, or as I like to call it, baroque balahamsa!!

While the loss of the original music was tragic, I should not take away from the beauty of the ragas we use today - the overall music feels like comparing a 1980s Ferrari to today's supercars.

If these efforts continue, soon we shall have our very own baroque music branch!

bhakthim dehi · Post by **bhakthim dehi** » 08 Feb 2019, 13:03

The old Walajapet version of balahamsa sounds more like some combo of kedAragauLa and janaranjani with a tinge of a G2 to my ears!

Same here excluding G2.

You know what, now I realize that the very origin of retuinitis was embedded in the musical values of those times. Everyone took liberties as ragas appear to be much more loosely defined.

I have read somewhere that many Tyagarajar kritis were tuned by later musicians, as they were unable to get the original tune (I mean krithis set in ragas like this). I totally blind about the reference now.
if that is the case, when they retuned it, they referred to lexicons like Sangraha Chudamani as they are easy to follow. Same thing happened with the kritis of Oothukadu Venkatakavi.

We should probably just fix a prefix - prAchina to these rAgAs to distinguish them for the current versions. The questionable authenticity of the sangraha chudamani nothwithstanding, Thyagaraja and Dikshitar already had their differences in those days. What happened after them essentially created two different sets of raga systems.

Exactly. This is what I was trying to establish. I have one more voice now, though I like to differ in that Tyagaraja and Deekshitar had differerences.

While the loss of the original music was tragic, I should not take away from the beauty of the ragas we use today - the overall music feels like comparing a 1980s Ferrari to today's supercars.

Certainly. We should preserve both these versions.

If these efforts continue, soon we shall have our very own baroque music branch!

Let that happen .

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