Origin of kutcheris

bhaktha · Post by **bhaktha** » 18 Feb 2007, 15:28

This might sound a bit weird but I would like to know how and when concepts like alapanai, neraval and kalpana swara came into being. When was the first cm concert performed? (I mean a full length concert with alapanai, neraval, RTPs etc and not just kritis). Who introduced these concepts in cm?

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 18 Feb 2007, 18:54

i think it may be any thing and nothing to do with tamil or tamilnadu. this is the only way to save our skin from 'kizhi kizhi and kizhi'. (ofcourse we are disappointing those who are waiting to kizhichufy....)

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 18 Feb 2007, 19:10

Bhaktha,
I will take a shot at it, and more learned members can elaborate/correct/explain.
From what I have had heard, people used to do elaborate AlApanAs, and create intricate pallavIs for several hours on end (probably for the entire duration of the concert), to the extent that vidwAns were refered to as bEgaDA so and so, pallavI such and such etc...They may have sung a gaNapati vandana at the start. But, AFAIK, except for bhajans and nAmasakIrtanams, I do not think that there was a practice of singing a ton of kritIs in a concert.
The current concert format owes it's origins to ARI (b.1890-d.1967) who figured out that a varNam in 3 speeds was an excellent way to warm up the vocal chords, and he is the one who created the current paddhatI, with the concept of short and long AlApanAs, nerevals, swarams etc. In his traditional paddhatI, the RTP would be in the same rAgam as the varNam. So, as you can see, this paddhati is a relatively new concept. With the passage of time, changes have been introduced in this pattern. You can read about this concept in ARI's words (translated into english) here: http://narada.org/ariyakudi/tradition.html

gb · Post by gb » 18 Feb 2007, 20:14

From what i heard from my guru
Music started as vocal and that too for the propagation of the religion. At that time each religion had their own forms like Vedham and Kuran and we know the fact that Vedham is the oldest form and it had only 3 notes. When SAMA Vedham originated it had all 7 notes, and till now the tune have no significance with the lyrics...
Later, originated the Namasankeerthanam... The oldest musical form was Jayadeva's Ashtapathi. (Significance of Ashtapathi is, it is sung in every part of India).
Then the people got interest for music and it was during the Shri Padaraya time (Guru of Purandhara Dasar) when the music took the form of pallavi and charam. It is known that anupallavi did not exist at that time.
Then it was Purandharadasa who stream lined the way how music should be learnt? And he gave the sarali, janda, saptatala alankaram, geetham, sulaadhi and Kirthanams.
Not more than 35 ragas were used during the period of Purandhara Dasa.
Later generations found that the tune has connection with the lyrics (abstract form) and this can be used as a prelude for the song and which gave rise art of singing raga.
This later developed with the venture of the skeleton (swaras) which gives the shape of the raga.
During that time (Pre-Trinity period) the numbers of varnams were too low (for example the Bhairavi Varnam by Pachimariyum Aadhipaiyar)
The Golden Era of music was during the period of Trinity and Post Trinity. Giants like Poochi SI, Mahavaidyanatha Iyer, Patnam SI and so on gave a shape for Music.
In my personal belief the Tillanaâ€™s are the influence of Barathanatyam.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 18 Feb 2007, 22:26

I read somewhere some time back(cant recall the source), that whatever we are associating as ARI formula was actually bought by Poochi Iyengar for the first time? Even ARI has acknowledged that .

I think only the sequencing aspect of RNS as submain then RNST as main , and RTP was bought by Poochi and his sishya ARI?

But when was the practice of singing neraval and swaram to a krithi and RTP born, is some thing I am still digging ?Gb has answered this partiallty here. Perhaps some one will add more.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Feb 2007, 00:22

Here is a related thread: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=420

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 19 Feb 2007, 05:23

http://www.carnatica.net/milestones.htm suggests raga alapana started in the 14th century. The kriti form only came after in the 15th century.

bhaktha · Post by **bhaktha** » 19 Feb 2007, 09:49

Thanks for all the responses. ARI and his guru (with due respect) were instrumental in sequencing, not inventing R,N,S, RTPs etc. It has been pointed out that the initial idea was only to sing bhajans and namasankeertanams.That is excatly my question. How and when did this namasankeertanam and bhajan oriented music (that probablygained momentum during the Bhakthi movement), develop into one of the most complex and scientific of all arts i.e. cm as we know it today?

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 19 Feb 2007, 13:02

Yes bhakta you are right. As GBji says past master's like Patnam have included their kritis in their kutcheris. He used to sing abhimAnamEnnaDu (bEgaDA) and perform neraval with svarA at anna vastramulaku Emi. I'm sure he would have included other hits like raghuvamsasudhA (kadanakutUhalam), korinavaramu (rAmapriyA), etc. This was in an earlier discussion in the now-defunct sangeetham.com. pUcci SrInivAsa ayyangAr and mahAvaidyanAta sivan would have also done the same with their kritis. Only thing there were no recording devices. We have a recording of svAmi vivEkananda at Chicago in 1896 (though it is still being debated whether it is indeed his speech). Had Madras been lucky, I'm sure we would have caught them on a tape!

People say the (first) vAgggEyakArar who gave the structure of songs its present form was padakavitApitAmahA annamAcAryAr (1408 - 1503). His close contemporary, from the neighbouring state, was SrIpAdarAyar (1404 - 1502). His songs are also in pallavi, anupallavi, charanam style. I guess it would be difficult to conclude who did it first.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 19 Feb 2007, 19:28

Bhaktha,
I did not understand your question at first. I am not sure we can arrive at a precise answer, but we can all speculate. With regard to nereval as part of the singing experience, here is my speculation:
According to William J. Jackson, author of tyAgarAjA: Life and Lyrics (Oxford India Paperbacks, Delhi, 1991), nAmasankIrtanam was the prevailing music of the day of tyAgarAjA's time. (He also says that it was only in the South that truly 'Indian'/pre-Islamic art-including music survived - but that is another loaded subject for discussion)...Anyway, he says that most of the pre-trinity compositons could be called kirtanas as we now define them, where the emphasis is on the words and not the development of the rAga...These kIrtanas, padas, sUlAdIs and other songs used during harikathas helped preserve the music. Tallapakka composers like Annamacharya (in addition to srIpAdarAya) had started to use the pallavi/anupallavi/caraNam format, and, tyAgarAja, accodring to Mr. Jackson took this format of the kIrtana (PAC) and embellished it by using the words/phrases to compose sancArIs (he is credited with developing if not inventing this concept) to develop the rAga swarUpa...music was primordial in these compositions - and as the song developed, so did the rAgaswarUpa unfold. We call these compositions kritIs to distinguish them from (nAmasan)kIrtanas of the earlier period. Earlier compositions with similar PAC format did not develop the rAga swarUpa as well as tyAgarAja did. From sancArIs to nereval seems a logical musical evolution.

bhaktha · Post by **bhaktha** » 20 Feb 2007, 10:20

Ya...this sounds a more plausible explanation. thanks...I would also like to know if either dikshitar or thayagabrahmam sang R,N,S for thier compositions....I am asking this because in almost all their kritis there seems to an ideal spot for neraval and swarams...