Hamsadhwani

Rāga related discussions
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paddu
Posts: 61
Joined: 21 Sep 2006, 14:19

Post by paddu »

Hi Everyone,
Could we discuss raga hamsadwani? I just like to know, why is this raga not used as a main piece (like RTP or one with elaborate alapana and swaras?). I feel this is a very bright raga. It makes you jump up with joy the moment you hear. Which are the famous kriti's in this raga?

Some of them
Vatapi
Gam Ganapate
Vande hum
Raghu nayaka

Can we have some songs shared, please?

BTW, I think MSM sings Vatapi in a unique style. It sounds very different. Can someone elaborate.


Thanks
Paddu

humdinger
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Jan 2006, 12:14

Post by humdinger »

excuse me for bringing in some fusion here....but i couldnt resist sharing this.
colonial cousins bring out a melodious hamsadhwani here...will you be my lady....
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/T42 ... As1NMvHdW/

the long violins arnd 2:30 are just great!

paddu
Posts: 61
Joined: 21 Sep 2006, 14:19

Post by paddu »

Yes, this is a good fusion song. Reminds me of AR Rehman's "Vellai Pookkal" from Kannathil .......

vijay
Posts: 2522
Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 16:06

Post by vijay »

Swaras almost always follow a kriti in this raga and there is the occasional alaapana/RTP as well (TNS for Hamsadhwani - also covering Nagaswaravali was an outstanding one).

Seems more popular as a main piece with Hindustani musicians even though I understand its origins are South Indian (Dikshitar's father?)...a BMK Kishori jugal is available commercially.

BTW, I've always wondered why it is Hamsadhwani and not Hansadhwani...

annapoorne
Posts: 126
Joined: 12 Dec 2006, 22:42

Post by annapoorne »

Sri Raghukula of Thyagaraja.

Has anybody heard "Nera Mora " a padam in Hamsadhwani?
Last edited by annapoorne on 13 Mar 2007, 07:23, edited 1 time in total.

humdinger
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Jan 2006, 12:14

Post by humdinger »

BMK does a sruthibhedam in the ragamalika part of an RTP...nagaswaravali to hamsadhwani...

"this nagaswaravali becomes what? you see....:" he says and goes in to hamsadhwani...

"i need not announce the name of the raga..." he concludes :)
Last edited by humdinger on 09 Mar 2007, 12:24, edited 1 time in total.

prashant
Posts: 1658
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:01

Post by prashant »

I've heard RTPs in hamsadhwani from the Rudrapatnam Brothers and Smt. Charumati Ramachandran. They were both on Lord Vinayaka.

manasukaruga of Patnam is a beautiful weighty piece. Also, pArvatipatim of Dikshitar gets short shrift in reportoires other than that of the DKP/DKJ school. I'd be very interested to hear a 2-kaLai chaukam krithi in this rAgA.

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Post by MaheshS »

A few years ago Ajoy Chakravarthy sang a beautiful one hour Hamsadhwani ending with Vathapi Ganapathim at BVB, London.

There is a commercial album of K J Yesudas where he sings Vathapi with elaborate neraval at "Pranavaswa rupa vakra thundam" wirh Prof Subramanya Sharma [Violin] and Mavelikara Krishnan Kutty Nair [Mridangam]. I throughly recomend if you haven't listened to it.

Maharajapuram Santhanam's Sadasivan Maindane is also another composition in the raga.

MSG's rendetion of Thyagaraja swami's Ragunayaka is sublime.

pallavi.pr
Posts: 83
Joined: 05 Mar 2007, 17:32

Post by pallavi.pr »

Some more compositions in Hamsadhwani:

MoolaaDhara moortE - Papanasam Sivan
Gajavadhana BEduvE- Purandara Daasa

Lakshman
Posts: 14019
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52

Post by Lakshman »

annapurne wrote:
Has anybody heard "Nera Mora " a padam in Hamsadwani?
Do you have the text of this song?

annapoorne
Posts: 126
Joined: 12 Dec 2006, 22:42

Post by annapoorne »

It goes like this:

Nera mora jaara chora marubalga ra......

Lakshman
Posts: 14019
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52

Post by Lakshman »

I was wondering if you had the complete text.

Nandy
Posts: 191
Joined: 25 Jun 2006, 02:01

Post by Nandy »

Hi,

wanted to share a clipping of Nityashree singing moolAdhAra moortE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxPwJ93aWcI

Nandy.

Suji Ram
Posts: 1529
Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 00:04

Post by Suji Ram »

pallavi.pr wrote:Some more compositions in Hamsadhwani:
Gajavadhana BEduvE- Purandara Daasa
I like the way Maharajapuram Santhanam sings this song-... Unique
You can listen here- MIO

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

Hamsadhwani
Bright Yes.But depends too much on the Tune of Vathapi for Survival.Most krithis and renderings seem to be some small variants of the THE ONE BASIC TUNE(Amir Khans Tharana , Jasraj's Pavaan Putra Hanuman and Kishoris Ganapatha vighna Haran...included)

It is for these reasons I treasure Seerkazhi Govindrajan's rendering -Here is a Clip from the full song , the second half.
Some very original Treatment.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/x2el47

Here is a fine moment with Pallavi Srirangam Iyengar in the Company of Lalgudi-PMI
PMI particularly seems to be enjoying very much.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/0xsu70
and another track of Parveen at Academy.
I once played it for a bunch of friends while travelling by cab to Kancheepuram-one of the friends was giving a vocal concert.
As she ended the alapana , I could sense everyone was looking forward to the usual composition of hers , but all of them had a mild shock when she was found to take up a new line.
After the song was over , Trivandrum Balaji asked the Driver to stop the playback and instead joined the others and tried out so many variations all the way back home.Each one tapping some part of the Maxi cab , hammering it at times and doing a multipronged Jugalbandi.
Hope you can catch some idea of that excitement here as well..

http://www.sendspace.com/file/fyc6n7

Bright raga..indeed.
Though we generally catch it only while while searching for our seats in the auditorium.

Ps wish I could use the Notations for swaras to explain myself.Kansen that I am , have to contend with phrases like Tune of Vathapi etc...
:rolleyes:

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

Palayashu -Vasudevachar has been rendered soulfully by S Shankar in a commercial tape avaialable in bangalore (Vasudevachars Compositions)

Members at ANANYA can also enjoy a RTP by MLV - in their archives.

mahesh33
Posts: 106
Joined: 21 Oct 2006, 06:20

Post by mahesh33 »

K-ji, Parveen's Alapana in Hamsadhwani was so sweet and nourishing....many thanks!

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

Is hamsadhwani sung either in the middle or towards the end of a concert? I have not heard one except as an opener. While I have a few songs on ganESa in hamsadhwani, one is about SivA...

Lakshman
Posts: 14019
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52

Post by Lakshman »

arasi wrote:
While I have a few songs on ganESa in hamsadhwani, one is about SivA...
I have over 250 songs in my list ,in this raga, and they are on a variety of themes.

ksrimech
Posts: 1050
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:25

Post by ksrimech »

hamsadhvani and gaNESA are made for each other.

knandago2001
Posts: 645
Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09

Post by knandago2001 »

Here are the links to Ajoy Chakrabarty's rendition - the drut khayal is reminiscent of Vatapi
http://www.badongo.com/file/2445950

sbala
Posts: 629
Joined: 30 Jul 2006, 08:56

Post by sbala »

kji,
Thanks for the Parveen upload. Just curious..I think you had suggested a trip to Dharwad to experience HM in all its glory! Is it still on?

jayaram
Posts: 1317
Joined: 30 Jun 2006, 03:08

Post by jayaram »

vijay asked:
BTW, I've always wondered why it is Hamsadhwani and not Hansadhwani...
In Sanskrit (more accurately, samskritam) it is written as Hamsadhwani - also HamsanAdam. You will find that Hindi-speakers tend to write these words as Hansadhwani, HansanAd, etc.
Similar to Paramahamsa in Sanskrit versus Paramahansa in Hindi...

Btw, can one of the mods change the title of this topic to Hamsadhwani please...
Last edited by jayaram on 12 Mar 2007, 23:19, edited 1 time in total.

annapoorne
Posts: 126
Joined: 12 Dec 2006, 22:42

Post by annapoorne »

I do not have the full text of the javali "Nera Mora"
Last edited by annapoorne on 27 Mar 2007, 21:30, edited 1 time in total.

meena
Posts: 3326
Joined: 21 May 2005, 13:57

Post by meena »

nera mora jara chora is a javali, correct?

Nandy
Posts: 191
Joined: 25 Jun 2006, 02:01

Post by Nandy »

Coolkarni,

Thanks for the uploads in Hamsadhwani.

Lakshman
Posts: 14019
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52

Post by Lakshman »

jayaram wrote:
In Sanskrit (more accurately, samskritam) it is written as Hamsadhwani
Strictly speaking it should be hamsadhvani since there is no wa sound in samskrt, only a va sound.

ramakriya
Posts: 1876
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 02:05

Post by ramakriya »

Lakshman wrote:jayaram wrote:
In Sanskrit (more accurately, samskritam) it is written as Hamsadhwani
Strictly speaking it should be hamsadhvani since there is no wa sound in samskrt, only a va sound.
Rather the other way I think.. AFAIK, there is no true 'v' in any Indian language, and it is always a 'w' even though we tend to write it with a v

-Ramakriya

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41

Post by arunk »

ramakriya wrote:
Lakshman wrote:jayaram wrote:
In Sanskrit (more accurately, samskritam) it is written as Hamsadhwani
Strictly speaking it should be hamsadhvani since there is no wa sound in samskrt, only a va sound.
Rather the other way I think.. AFAIK, there is no true 'v' in any Indian language, and it is always a 'w' even though we tend to write it with a v

-Ramakriya
ramakriya - i actually think it is more like what Lakshman said. Atleast the way "va" is in tamizh - it is equivalent to how "v" is pronounced in english and not "w". The "w" sound is made with the lips rounded, while v would be with the lips wider and of course with the front-teeth slightly pressed against upper lip.

Many Indians in US tend to pronounce "w" and "v" as same is a perception among americans - and they feel we pronounce both like "v".

Arun

Suji Ram
Posts: 1529
Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 00:04

Post by Suji Ram »

It should be front teeth with lower lip for "v"

Many say "vay" for "way" but say lau for "love"

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Many Indians in US tend to pronounce "w" and "v" as same is a perception among americans - and they feel we pronounce both like "v".
My experience with the way they hear us is, the 'v' is pronounced as 'w'. Victory is said as Wictory, Vacuum as Wacuum. "World War" - they hear World OK, but War is ambiguous, it is somewhere between V and W ;) To be quite unambigous, hurt your lower lips by biting into it. Victory hurts!! :)

Suji Ram
Posts: 1529
Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 00:04

Post by Suji Ram »

vasanthakokilam wrote:
Many Indians in US tend to pronounce "w" and "v" as same is a perception among americans - and they feel we pronounce both like "v".
My experience with the way they hear us is, the 'v' is pronounced as 'w'. Victory is said as Wictory, Vacuum as Wacuum. "World War" - they hear World OK, but War is ambiguous, it is somewhere between V and W ;) To be quite unambigous, hurt your lower lips by biting into it. Victory hurts!! :)
vin and wictory is not the same :)

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41

Post by arunk »

suji - right :). Front teeth on upper lip - now there is a challenge :)

vk - yes i think we are confused about both. I myself mix v and w and screw-it up both ways if I am not careful.

Arun

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

Post by drshrikaanth »

"W" is how it is in SI languages often. Sanskrit is more "v" than w.

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41

Post by arunk »

drs - in tamizh it seems to me closer to va than wa (atleast as how americans pronounce it) as in vA, vEdanai, veRRi. But may be i am wrong - and it is really "in-between" and can swing closer to w also.

Arun

jayaram
Posts: 1317
Joined: 30 Jun 2006, 03:08

Post by jayaram »

Interesting points. However, the 'dhwani' in Hamsadhwani uses more of the 'w' sound than 'v' sound. Try saying 'dhvani' in the way the 'v' sound is correctly pronounced in English, and you will see what I mean.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

If we are talking about 'v' as americans say it, then hamsadhvani is really a hard thing to say in one fluid motion..

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41

Post by arunk »

?!?? - it doesnt seem that hard?

But it does not come (naturally) for me out same as either "v" or "w" at the beginning of the word (or following a vowel?). But i am probably tamilizing it.

Compare hamsadhvani to kIravANi or say mAyamAlavagowLa

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 14 Mar 2007, 03:23, edited 1 time in total.

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

Post by drshrikaanth »

vEdanai is a sanskrit import. viDu, viTTu all have more of w than v. vA is usually pronounced with a w sound- not a straightforward v anyway.

dhvani- yes SI- we pronounce it as dhwani. I think native hindi speakers pronounce it with a v only.

jayaram
Posts: 1317
Joined: 30 Jun 2006, 03:08

Post by jayaram »

"You say Hamsadhvani, I say Hamsadhwani,
dhvani, dhwani,
Let's call the whole thing off!"

(with apologies to George Gershwin and Louis Armstrong :-)

ramakriya
Posts: 1876
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 02:05

Post by ramakriya »

Again, there may be regional variations within the United States too :)

But at least going by my kids (and their teachers), I get a feeling that Indians lack true 'v' ;)

-Ramakriya
Last edited by ramakriya on 14 Mar 2007, 03:55, edited 1 time in total.

ramakriya
Posts: 1876
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 02:05

Post by ramakriya »

vasanthakokilam wrote:If we are talking about 'v' as americans say it, then hamsadhvani is really a hard thing to say in one fluid motion..
You have me on your side :P

Seriously, I wonder if it is a California thing. VK, Are you in CA (or western US)?


-Ramakriya
Last edited by ramakriya on 14 Mar 2007, 04:01, edited 1 time in total.

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41

Post by arunk »

from the ribbing the older generation of our family has taken from the younger ones the last 20-25 years, i think indians (or atleast tamilians) lack both true V and W from an american perspective :)!

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 14 Mar 2007, 04:13, edited 1 time in total.

Lakshman
Posts: 14019
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52

Post by Lakshman »

I have a pamphlet which describes the pronunciation and diacritical marks in Samskrt agreed to by an international congress that took place in Athens in the eary part of the 20th century. I will dig it up and post a scanned image.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Seriously, I wonder if it is a California thing. VK, Are you in CA (or western US)?
No, it is the same in the mid-west, the so called neutral region accent wise. A high school english teacher ( who preferred to be addressed as Mrs. Robinson even by adults :) ) is the one who first told me that I am not saying 'V' and 'W' sounds properly and taught me the right way ( along with a few other useful tips including the voiced 'th' sound as in 'then' and 'thank you' where the tongue sticks out and the really odd sounding one: 'where' and 'what' needs to have a little tinge of an 'h' sound in the beginning ).

jayaram
Posts: 1317
Joined: 30 Jun 2006, 03:08

Post by jayaram »

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 232AA8eFpq
It's not just Indians who have the 'V-W' problem...even the Germans do this.

vijay
Posts: 2522
Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 16:06

Post by vijay »

Thanks Jayaram, for correcting my faulty Sanskrit!

humdinger
Posts: 191
Joined: 04 Jan 2006, 12:14

Post by humdinger »

pannalal ghosh....very nice hamsadhwani
http://www.esnips.com/doc/5939267b-c657 ... ansadhwani

sramaswamy
Posts: 366
Joined: 24 May 2006, 22:29

Post by sramaswamy »

We had this fun stuff when the kids brought up in US challenged their desi parents to distinguishably say V and W. The test set was to say 'Viper' as the snake type and "Wiper" as in the car windshield. Result was when the kids said the words to the other kids, they identified the correct Viper/Wiper. The kids did have an exact explanation of how to say out V and W. I believe you say W with a pout in the lips and V from your lower lips.

Needless to say parents lost out.
Last edited by sramaswamy on 15 Mar 2007, 01:39, edited 1 time in total.

thanjavur

Post by thanjavur »

Sangeethapriya (Hamsadhwani) links

Hamsadwani Raga - Adi Talam / Teen Tal
by Dr N Ramani & Dr N Rajam (contribution - Ramakrishnan)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... _INTRO.mp3
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... DHWANI.mp3

Arul purivai (Bharatiar)
by MLV (contribution - TVG)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~tvg/068. ... -990KB.mp3

Bhajamahe (Thulasivanam)
by TVS
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... ivanam.mp3

Gam Ganapathe (HMB)
by DKJ (contribution - GVR Shyam)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~gvr/vina ... he_DKJ.mp3

by MLV (contribution - GVR Shyam)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~gvr/vina ... %20%20.mp3

by Dr M Narmada (contribution - TVG)
(1st song)
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/tvg/189. ... 2%20MB.mp3

Jalajaksha (Varnam - Manambuchavadi Venkatasubbier)
by MDR (contribution - KL)
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/kl/25-MD ... aNinne.mp3

by MLV
(contribution - TVG)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~tvg/016. ... 0%20KB.mp3
(contribution - R Nandakumar)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/%7Enanda/ ... %20MLV.mp3

by Nedunuri (contribution - R Ramachandran)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~ramach/V ... baiyer.mp3

Mahaganapathe
by TVS (contribution - GVR Shyam)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~gvr/vina ... i)-TVS.mp3

Manasu Karugademi (Patnam Subramania Iyer)
by SSR (contribution - HMG Murthy)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~murthy/0 ... PSIyer.mp3

Namami Vigna Vinayaka (C S Krishnaswaamy Ayyaa)
by MLV (contribution - TVG)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~tvg/036. ... 1.13MB.mp3

Orumanikkorumani ()
by Sirkazhi
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... adwani.mp3

Pagavari (Varnam - Patnam Subramania Iyer)
by KVN
(contribution - Nandakumar)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/%7Enanda/ ... %20KVN.MP3
(upload by Vijay)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... adwani.mp3

Parvathipathim (Dikshitar)
by DKJ
(contribution - Sunil)
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/sunil/gu ... J--DKP.mp3
(contribution - Vignesh)
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/vignesh/ ... Pathim.mp3
by DKP (contribution - Sujsree)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... adwani.mp3

Pirai aniyum (Dr MBK)
by TRS (contribution - HMG Murthy)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... _DrBMK.mp3

Sri Raghukula (Thyagarajar)
by Radha - Jayalakshmi
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/cgi-bin/g ... mp3&loc=rj

by TVS (contribution - GVR Shyam)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~gvr/vina ... ni-TVS.mp3

Tunga Tarange Gange (Sadasiva Bramhendra)
by MBK (contribution - HMG Murthy)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~murthy/0 ... i-Aadi.mp3

Vaaranamukha (Koteeswara Iyer)
by DKP (contribution - HMG Murthy)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~murthy/5 ... raIyer.mp3

Vandhe Jaga (Annamacharya)
by Nedunuri
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/cgi-bin/g ... c=Nedunuri

Varavallabha Ramana (GNB)
by MLV (contribution - GVR Shyam)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~gvr/vina ... MLV%20.mp3

Vathapi Ganapathim (Dikshitar)
by Chembai
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~chembai/ ... dhwani.mp3
(contribution - GVR Shyam)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~gvr/vina ... hembai.mp3
(contribution - Kaumaram)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... adwani.mp3

by DKJ (contribution - Sunil)
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/sunil/gu ... i--DKJ.mp3

by GNB
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... adwani.mp3

by KVN
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... shitar.mp3

by MBK (contribution - Raju Asokan)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~asokan/C ... athapi.mp3

by MDR
(contribution - GVR Shyam)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~gvr/vina ... ni_MDR.mp3
(contribution - Kumar)
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/kumar/Vo ... ni_Adi.mp3

by MLV
(contribution - TVG)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~tvg/041. ... 1.64MB.mp3
(contribution - HMG Murthy)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~murthy/3 ... di-MLV.mp3

by MMI
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/cgi-bin/g ... p3&loc=MMI

by MSG (contribution - KL)
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/kl/48-MS ... ajeham.mp3

by Neyveli (contribution - R Ramachandran)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~ramach/V ... shitar.mp3

by R S Mani (contribution - R Ramachandran)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~ramach/V ... shitar.mp3

by Sanjay (contribution - R Ramachandran)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~ramach/V ... hithar.mp3

by SSI
(contribution - HMG Murthy)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~murthy/3 ... di-SSI.mp3
(contribution - KL)
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/kl/02-SS ... ajeham.mp3

by TMK
(contribution - TVG)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... 3.71MB.mp3
(contribution - Hariharan)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/cgi-bin/g ... p3&loc=tmk

by TNS (contribution - R Ramachandran)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~ramach/V ... hithar.mp3
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~ramach/V ... hithar.mp3

Vinayaka ninnu vina [Gopaladasar (E V Ramakrishna Bhagavatar)]
by GNB (contribution - GVR Shyam)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~gvr/vina ... GNB%20.mp3

by SKR (contribution - R Ramachandran)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~ramach/V ... adwani.mp3
______________________________________________________________________________
Last edited by thanjavur on 28 Mar 2007, 02:55, edited 1 time in total.

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