Learning Alankarams

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 06 Apr 2007, 15:35

I wonder why eka thalam is not taught first as opposed to say Dhruva thalam. Dhruva thalam is longer and it seems to be more difficult to learn for a beginner. Are there schools where they do not follow the same order as listed in the book?

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 06 Apr 2007, 18:38

Dear brother-member, sbala, Only to frame a Shloka of the seven Talas our fore-fathers, most unfortunately, must have started it with Dhruva-tala. Me too have taught my students for nearly 40 years starting with Dhruva-tala. But, only while writing my book, Sangita Svararaga Sudha, my tube-light went on and realized what an un-kindful fool I have been to have mercilessly taxed my poor students starting with such a long and confusive Dhruva-tala for such a long time without having the needed introspection. That is why, in my book I have changed the seriatim of them accordingly starting with the Talas consisting of 4 (Eka), 6(Rupaka). 10(Mathya), 14 (Dhruva), 7(Triputa), 10(Jhampa) and 14 (Ata) keeping the Alanakaras having long notes in the end. I have also started them teaching Jati Alankaras, kitataka, taka-kitataka, takadhimi-taka-kitataka,
takadhimi-taka-kitataka-kitataka, takita-kita-taka, takitatakataki-ta-taa, takeetaa-taakitaa-taa-taa. Even after publishing this book, my tube-light again went on and modified even this order by keeping the only Alankara, Triputa, having odd Kriyas throwing it to the last place. If we have to teach these Alankaras in Svara, we must teach them 10 Avartas each. But, even to make this easy to our kids, I have preferred to teach them in a Panchama-varja-raga, either in Lalitha, the Janya of Mayamalavagoula or in Hamsavinodini, the Janya of Shankarabharana by which we can conclude each Svara-alankara in 8 Avartas only. Even in my MP3 CD, AMS Easy methods of 9 1/2 hrs. duration I sang myself all these Alankaras both in Jati and Svara forms in the same manner along with different Laya exercises and number of Muktayis to initiate the aspirants in so many ways to give them a very nice base of our music. Unless we realize that we have to start teaching the primary lessons in music to our kids in Shankarabharana like in Hindusthani or Western systems, our kids have to face the music. In the same manner, in this speedy age, our music teachers must introspect themselves not only to modify their teaching methods accordingly but also to welcome innovative and easy methods in teaching to make things easier to our kids and also to save our music from extinction. In fact, this is a very urgent and serious topic of this hour to hold number of seminars and workshops area-wise on this topic inviting the interested people to discuss things at length to save our traditional classical Karnataka music. amsharma.

gb · Post by gb » 21 Apr 2007, 20:14

Hi Sbala,
I had this same question in my mind for a long time. Then i got my answer from my Guru Sri Tanjore Sankar Iyer and Sri T.K.G, when you first learn duruva talam you will be confused on how many lagus and did you go right on it when you sing 2nd and 3rd kalam.. but after a while the talam itself will become easy for you on practice.. at that time you will see that any talam will be easy for you.. for example chadushra duruvam and kanda ada talam both are same 14 counts but still we sing that without even realizing.. it is just to control your mind before you get to the real show.. once your layam is on your control even before you start singing kritis.. when you go on kalpana swaram.. talam will not be primary aspect as it will be already on your control.. it is like starting to ride fast on your bike first which is easy than trying to ride it slow where more balance and skill is required. Once you learn the balance and skill you can do tricks on your bike...

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 21 Apr 2007, 20:59

Hi GB,
Yes, I did have the same confusion on which laghu I was in especially when you do Melkalam. My teacher also teaches me a variation where you alternate Chaturasra Dhruva and Khanda Ata talam. So, you are right.

There is a school of thought that if you expose a student to the tougher aspects first, he might find the subsequent ones easier. There is another school of learning that emphasies moving from the easier to the complex. This is across disciplines, not just music. My personal preference is the latter. But, it all ultimately depends on the student, isn't it?

For instance, I'm now teaching a kid (not music!) and it's been a great experience so far. Just watching him connect so well to what I'm saying and giving him new challenges has been a enriching experience for me..Adults are a big problem as students because they have so many preconceived notions (oh, I have this problem, my doctor has told me not to do this etc). I have seen so much of this that I have now come to the conclusion that it's not the physical abilties of adults but the state of their mind that prevents them from learning.

Right now, I'm trying to understand Sharmaji's way of teaching (through his book) and his method seems to address some basic aspects very well that might help one become more confident to take on complex scenarios.

I attended Sri Tanjavur Sankara Iyer's concert a few days back. I adore his concerts and his unbridled enthusiasm for music. Too bad there wasn't a review. It was one of the best concerts I have attended during the last one year.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 21 Apr 2007, 21:05

I especially like Sharmaji's idea of introducing datu swarams to cover a span of 5 notes instead of the traditional 4 notes that enables you to complete the alankaram at samam in 3rd speed as well. In the traditional method, you end up in the middle and you have to repeat the alankaram. These methods are certainly very useful to make it easier for a beginner.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 21 Apr 2007, 21:40

Dear brother-member, gb, Hope you mean that starting with a difficult Tala makes the further matters easier to the aspirant. While doing some things you should start with a difficult one and for some things you should start with the easier one. In the same manner, while participating in a race of long-jump we should aim at the longer point and practice and while swallowing a big lump better take it in small quantities to finish it quick. Moreover, by starting with Dhruva-tala or Ata-tala of 14 Kriyas, one can concentrate more on the number of Kriyas but not on Laya intricacies. Some music teachers load their poor students by teaching them Alankaras in 35 Talas and pose as the efficient teachers. Students efficiency will not improve by teaching them number of Alankaras but complicated Alankaras. Efficiency always improves by facing complications only. This is a very simple logic. I have made extensive research in this direction and finally always start with Laya exercises only. In the same manner, I teach only 6 Gitas covering all the 12 notes that too without any Kampita or Gamaka. We should not load the student with a number of Gitas that too with heavy Gamakas like making a small kid run fast. Later, 10 Varnas are more than enough to cover much of the intricacies of Kampitas and Gamakas. I have brought out all these easy methods in teaching music through my CD â€˜AMS Easy methodsâ€™. After finishing 10 Varnas on Vocal and Violin I did never teach even a single Kriti on Vocal or Violin to my students. But, by that time, I shall initiate them to learn Kritis on their own by following the notation and also to play on Violin on their own. The Guruâ€™s duty always is to make his student independent in all aspects. A true Guru should always initiate his student to do things on his own paving way to develop his own Manodharma. One of my students, who did much of his music-learning by listening and practicing on his own on these lines, has become able to give a 2-hrs.successful concert within a very short span of 2 years. All my experiments are result oriented. amsharma.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 22 Apr 2007, 08:19

msakella wrote:After finishing 10 Varnas on Vocal and Violin I did never teach even a single Kriti on Vocal or Violin to my students. But, by that time, I shall initiate them to learn Kritis on their own by following the notation and also to play on Violin on their own.

An excerpt from a poem by Walt Whitman

Long have you timidly waited,
holding a plank by the shore.
Now I will you to be a bold swimmer,
To jump off in the midst of the sea,
and rise again, and nod to me and shout,
and laughingly dash your hair.

I am the teacher of athletes.
He that by me spreads a wider breast than my own
proves the width of my own.
He most honors my style
who learns under it to destroy the teacher.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 22 Apr 2007, 16:16

Dear brother-member, sbala, Thank you for your complimentary poem. Always I earnestly feel that like the mother of every kid the â€˜Guruâ€™ should always feel his responsibility to vigilantly teach whatever and whenever his student needs (he should not mearly teach what he knows) and properly initiate his student to make him firmly stand upon his own legs independently. If every music teacher strives hard to become such a respectful â€˜Guruâ€™ the overall picture of our entire nation changes overwhelmingly by overnight ( I donâ€™t take it serious even if you laugh at my poor English but I sincerely wish this). I feel that this is the time to the like-minded people to get together, discuss and find result oriented ways to make our kids independently face things to each one of them become a stalwart of our traditional, classical Karnataka music. To attain this I am always ready to strive hard and do the needful things as a teacher with the whole hearted co-operation and assistance of our brothers and sisters of our nation. Thanking you once again, amsharma.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Apr 2007, 16:27

sbala
the poem you quoted reminded me of one famous young seagull.

here is an interesting pictorial version of that story.
http://suchitnanda.org/inspiration/Jona ... agull.html

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 22 Apr 2007, 17:59

Dear brother-member & moderator, coolkarni, The pictorial version of the seagull â€¦
â€˜I want no honors. I have no wish to be leader, I want only to share what Iâ€™ve found to show those horizons out ahead for us allâ€¦we have a reason to live, to learn, to discover â€¦ we are your brothersâ€¦. they were magnificent birds â€¦ they spent hour after hour â€¦ practicing advanced aeronauticsâ€¦ you are prettly well a one-in-million-birdâ€¦our purpose of living is to find that perfection and show it forth â€¦ perfection doesâ€™nt have limits â€¦ you didâ€™nt need faith to fly â€¦ you needed to understand flying â€¦ it always works when you know what you are doing â€¦ keep working on love â€¦ his race to learn had begunâ€™ â€¦ is extremely nice and gives us an invaluable message. Thanks a lot for quoting this, amsharma.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Apr 2007, 18:34

Dear amsharma
It is your zeal ,sincerity and enthusiasm that makes us connect with so many other instances where one sees an artist encapsulating "timeless" lessons in priceless works of art.
We , lay rasikas, can only be capable of such token acts of appreciation, and will never be able to fully convey to you and all others , who educate us , our fullest gratitude.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 23 Apr 2007, 01:02

Dear brother-member & moderator, coolkarni, With every energy to serve my own brothers and sisters along with my own brothers and sisters I have fully been blessed by the Mother the Great and I am able to fulfill that. I am doing my duty and you are also doing your duty. Isâ€™nt it? Thus, while delivering our duties there is no point of gratitude at all. Thatâ€™s all and thanking you all, amsharma.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Apr 2007, 03:55

sbala:
Those lines of Walt Whitman and the subsequent discussions indeed touched my heart. I humbly wish to add to the famous thirukkuRaL the verse:
shIDan gurvirkkARRum uthavi ivan guru
ennoRRAn kol enum Sol
(The greatest service a disciple can do to his guru is the exclamation by others as to what penance the guru may have done to have him as his disciple!)

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 23 Apr 2007, 04:26

Thus, while delivering our duties there is no point of gratitude at all.

Very well said. The western habit of thanking each other constantly has somehow seeped into the Indian psyche to some extent. While not necessarily bad, it can create a distance between people that's not required in many cases.

(I remember how my father got really angry with me when I thanked him for something on my first trip home after going to the US for higher studies.)

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 23 Apr 2007, 07:55

CMLover sir,
Unlike kji, I'm not a master of context sensitive quotes. It just happened that I was reading the poem and Sharmaji's post at the same time. You have opened my eyes by quoting from thirukkuRal.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 23 Apr 2007, 08:29

Dear brother-member, jayaram, Having studied and by-hearted some part of the Sankrit Shabda-kosha along with the Pratha-kaanda of Amara-kosha at the age of my 8th year and conveniently forgotten everything in due course, a very little influence of Sanskrit, still, is remains in me and I hope the corresponding meanings of the words, Abhinandana, Abhivandana, Abhivaadana, Kritajnata & Kritaghnata are praising, thanks giving, performing Namaskara, being grateful & being un-grateful respectively (I may be wrong!). Among them, there is vast difference between thanks giving and being grateful to others. We need not express our gratitude to our father, as it is his duty to look after their children, but can casually thank him (if he does his duty with affection, he also, in turn, receives the same affection and if not, no - that is different.) A father also should treat thanks giving and showing gratitude differently. Of course, creation of distance between the hearts of the people, mostly, depends only upon the level of their mental culture. However, borrowing good habits is not a crime at all, I hope. amsharma.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Apr 2007, 09:48

In fact the giving and receipt of thanks makes one a debtor and the other a receiver in the divine balance sheet. The consequence is the cycle of 'samsara' (being born again and again to repay the debt!). That is primarily the reason for surrendering everything through the prayer:
kAyEna vAcA.... sarvam parasmai nArAyaNAya iti samarpayAmi so that we do not accumulate the debt! It does not mean that gratitude should not be expressed. The gratitude should be expressed to the Divinity (the 'null' account)!

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 23 Apr 2007, 12:45

cmlover wrote:That is primarily the reason for surrendering everything through the prayer:
kAyEna vAcA.... sarvam parasmai nArAyaNAya iti samarpayAmi

Dear brother-member, cmlover, The Almighty is very kind enough to bless me with everything I need along with that kind of bend in my mind which gives me absolute peace. Thanking you, amsharma.

sandhyashree · Post by **sandhyashree** » 24 Apr 2007, 10:48

Sbala, Coolkarni sir and cmlover sir,
Your references to the poem,the famous seagull story and the tirukuRal verse have moved me immensely........
Thanks a million!!!!!!!!!

Sandhya

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 24 Apr 2007, 13:31

The gratitude should be expressed to the Divinity (the 'null' account)!

Hmm, if we go by the realization that each of us is divinity personified, then I suppose no harm in thanking each other...?
Sharma-garu, I was referring more to the vacuous expressions of thanks that's prevalent in certain cultures/groups.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 24 Apr 2007, 13:53

Dear brother-member, jayaram, HE only is everywhere and we are nowhere. Even to dawn this truth every being should rely upon HIM. When we are fully blessed by HIM with a mental bend to fully rely upon HIM, then only, we rely fully upon HIM and get the required Shanthi. Everybody bothers for Sukham and Shanthi. We may even get Sukham but not Shanthi at all unless HE wills. If we do everything with a feeling that it is being done by HIM only but with this body, we get Shanthi. If we are blessed with Shanthi we need not bother for Sukham at all. amsharma.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 24 Apr 2007, 14:38

Cmlover sir,
Is your kural from thirukkural or something you have composed along those lines? I initially thought it was the former but on subsequent reading assumed it was the latter. Just seeking a clarification!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Apr 2007, 20:56

Of course I patterned it after the wellknown kuRaL!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Apr 2007, 21:44

Jayaram

The thanksgiving is inwards (to the paramAtma) than outwards. Reminds me of a famous story from mahabharata (most of you may know)!

During the vanavAsa the pANDavas were fed by the akShaya pAtra given them by sUrya but it would work only once per day but would feed any number of people. DuryOdhana decided to get the pANDavas cursed by the sage durvAsa by their inability to feed him and his 1000 disciples by sending him over to them at noon. As the sage arrived the akShaya pAtra had done its job for the day and the pANDavas were desparate. The desolate draupadi prayed to Lord KriShna who appeared before her and immediately demanded some food. As draupadi explained her inability, kriShNa asked the vessal to be brought and found a little morsel clinging to its side (of course the cleaning was not done using the dishwasher

KriShNa ate that morsel saying:
upayujyA... anEna hariH IshvaraH
vishvAtmA prIyatAm dEvaH tuShTaH ca astu iti yag~nabhuk
(by this morsel let the yag~nabhOkta bhagavaan hari, the universal soul and devatas be pleased and satisfied)
Consequently everybody in the universe including durvaasa and his disciples felt fully satiated and fearing they would be fed by the pANDavas simply absconded

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 25 Apr 2007, 01:55

The thanksgiving is inwards (to the paramAtma) than outwards.

The distinction made between Atma and paramAtma may itself be mAya at work...

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 03 May 2007, 03:09

Dear brother-member, gb, Instead of teaching the aspirant the Alankaras in all the 35 Talas, it is always desirable to strengthen his stamina in Laya by making him render all the usual Alankaras in 7 Talas @ 1-unit, 2-units, 3-units, 4-units, 5-units, 6-units, 7-units & 8-units per each second and beat and later all these things again @ one beat per two seconds (of course, among them 5 & 7-units are most difficult and me too miss to render them fluently as I have never been taught of even the idea of rendering them by any person I came across in my younger age). These things could be added to my above post No.6. amsharma.