T M Krishna - Margazhi Maha Utsavam - 14 Dec 2008

Review the latest concerts you have listened to.
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hariharans
Posts: 64
Joined: 19 Mar 2006, 04:25

Post by hariharans »

Marghazi Maha Utsavam - Jaya TV
Chettinad Vidhyashram, RA Puram, Chennai
14 Dec 2008

Image

Sri T M Krishna - Vocal
Sri R K Sriramkumar - Violin
Sri K Arun Prakash - Mridangam
Sri Giridhar Utupa - Ghatam

Theme : Mummoorthigal

01 sri naadadi guruguho - mAyamAlava gowlai - Adi - Sri Muthuswamy Dikshitar N S
02 thalli ninnu nera - kalyAni - misra chApu - Sri Shyama Sastri - N
03 sri nilothpala nayike jagadambike - nAri rEthigowlai - rupakam(2) - Sri Muthuswamy
Dikshitar R
04 koniyAde - kokiladhwani - Adi - St. Thyagaraja
05 intha sowkya - kApi - Adi(2) - St. Thyagaraja R S
06 thani Avarthanam
07 mAyamma - Ahiri - Adi(2) - Sri Shyama Sastri N
08 nArayana hari - yamunA kalyAni - Adi - St. Thyagaraja
09 mAmava pattAbi - mani rangu - misra chApu - Sri Muthuswamy Dikshitar
10 mangalam

Quite an interesting and enjoyable concert. I heard for the first time the ragam Nari
Reethigowlai. Krishna, after a wonderful alapana took some time to explain about the
ragam. The 20th melakartha has Nari Reethigowlai in the Dikshitar way of
classification and Natabhairavi in the Venkitamahi's system. Interestingly the kriti itself
has "nata bhairavi" mentioed in it which indicates that Dikshitar was well aware of the
other classifciation system.

The concert was ably supported by Sriramkumar, Arun Prakash and Giridhar Udupa.
The thani was played nicely in a manner to suit the kriti's kalapramaanam.

Request someone to provide additional details and corrections to my observations, if
any.
Last edited by hariharans on 14 Dec 2008, 22:21, edited 1 time in total.

vijay
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 16:06

Post by vijay »

Thanks Hariharan. I wonder if Mummoorthigal makes sense as a "theme"!

jananee
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Joined: 30 Jun 2007, 12:27

Post by jananee »

I liked the snap..hariharans!

Jigyaasa
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Joined: 16 May 2006, 14:04

Post by Jigyaasa »

Yeah... Really nice photo...

kamavardhani
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Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 22:57

Post by kamavardhani »

vijay wrote:I wonder if Mummoorthigal makes sense as a "theme"!
No, it certainly doesn't! A clear case of OB-adichufying in the name of a thematic concert... :)

rajaglan
Posts: 709
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 21:34

Post by rajaglan »

Whatever the theme name, this is the best format I want to listen, Rather than the theme concerts where the nuances of CM is diluted and more
lyrical research happens and more supply of songs happen. It is not that I donot like such things, but I will be very happy if they can telecast a
traditional CM concert in TV, especially for the nonchennai rasikas (who feel very dry) during the season.

How great it will be, if there is a Live telecast of Sudha, Vijay Siva, Sanjay, U Srinivas, TMK, Soumya, Gurucharan, Prassna venkatraman
concerts in Music Academy in HDTV version of Jaya TV (I guess it is not far away considering In USA one can watch NBA live in HDTV transmission).

annamalai
Posts: 355
Joined: 23 Nov 2006, 07:01

Post by annamalai »

kamavardhani wrote:
vijay wrote:I wonder if Mummoorthigal makes sense as a "theme"!
No, it certainly doesn't! A clear case of OB-adichufying in the name of a thematic concert... :)
Franky, I think Jaya TV - theme based concerts are not useful. I do not know what is their point. Perhaps, these themes are intended for hype/marketing and not music BTW. it is NOT marghazi masam yet. Thematic concerts of Thyagaraja Aradhana or Muthuswamy Dikshitar are ok. Sometimes, these themes are carried too far. Even Rama Navami concerts contain other songs.

There is a message in the theme of TMK's concert. It will be a regular concert with the krithis of Trinity. What is the OB ?

Sree Neelothpala Nayike - Narireethigowla has been rendered by Balamuralkrishna Sr. and Kalpagam Swaminathan.

Jigyaasa
Posts: 587
Joined: 16 May 2006, 14:04

Post by Jigyaasa »

annamalai wrote:Franky, I think Jaya TV - theme based concerts are not useful. I do not know what is their point. Perhaps, these themes are intended for hype/marketing and not music
It's just a novel idea... I guess they think that an entire concert would eat away too much from their "precious" air time dedicated to reality shows n soap operas... A theme is a good excuse to restrain the scope of a concert so that it can be presented in a half hour capsule... After all, TRP's r what really matter.
annamalai wrote: BTW. it is NOT marghazi masam yet.
The concets r TELECAST in Margazhi only... So for ppl watchin em on TV, it is INDEED mArgazhi mahA "utsavam"...

N I agree that it surely doesn't qualify as a theme... For someone as "enlightened" as Sri T.M.Krishna, it seems to be a "slip" of sorts...

prashant
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:01

Post by prashant »

This might be a completely silly question, but what is "OB-adichufying"? :-)

sridrect
Posts: 112
Joined: 20 Nov 2008, 13:49

Post by sridrect »

rajaglan wrote:Whatever the theme name, this is the best format I want to listen, Rather than the theme concerts where the nuances of CM is diluted and more
lyrical research happens and more supply of songs happen. It is not that I donot like such things, but I will be very happy if they can telecast a
traditional CM concert in TV, especially for the nonchennai rasikas (who feel very dry) during the season.

How great it will be, if there is a Live telecast of Sudha, Vijay Siva, Sanjay, U Srinivas, TMK, Soumya, Gurucharan, Prassna venkatraman
concerts in Music Academy in HDTV version of Jaya TV (I guess it is not far away considering In USA one can watch NBA live in HDTV transmission).
1. These thematic concerts are a welcome change from all the "other regular" concerts
2. It helps to listen to some rare compositions and know something about their compositions.
3. As far one Mr Sanjay Subrahmanyan goes, there is NO DILUTION of CM in such thematic concerts. Each one of his concert of last 6 years at Margazhi Mahautsavam for JAYA-TV is a gem. May be other "artistes" are diluting the nuances of CM :-)

srinidhi
Posts: 227
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 08:59

Post by srinidhi »

When does Jaya TV start telecasting these kutcheris?

hariharans
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Joined: 19 Mar 2006, 04:25

Post by hariharans »

Srinidhi, i had posted the complete telecast details in a separate post.


( Mod note: Here is the link: http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... edule.html )

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

Prashant,
I have the same 'silly' question too. What is OB aDichufying?

I find the Margazhi mahA utsavam themes refreshing. They interest both the rasikAs and rasikAs-to-be and the sries helps draw more listeners to CM. However, in some instances elsewhere, the overuse of the word 'thematic' without any significant intent makes it feel as if a currently fashionable word is used without carrying much meaning with it.
Since this program is aired from Chennai, tamizh songs (for tamizh viewers) makes sense--or, are we to see it as a healthy sign indicating that new listeners are ready for a sampling of the trinity as well?



.

annamalai
Posts: 355
Joined: 23 Nov 2006, 07:01

Post by annamalai »

Jigyaasa wrote:
annamalai wrote:Franky, I think Jaya TV - theme based concerts are not useful. I do not know what is their point. Perhaps, these themes are intended for hype/marketing and not music
It's just a novel idea... I guess they think that an entire concert would eat away too much from their "precious" air time dedicated to reality shows n soap operas... A theme is a good excuse to restrain the scope of a concert so that it can be presented in a half hour capsule... After all, TRP's r what really matter.
annamalai wrote: BTW. it is NOT marghazi masam yet.
The concets r TELECAST in Margazhi only... So for ppl watchin em on TV, it is INDEED mArgazhi mahA "utsavam"...

N I agree that it surely doesn't qualify as a theme... For someone as "enlightened" as Sri T.M.Krishna, it seems to be a "slip" of sorts...

I maintain my view - the concert theme is a pure marketing / hype and including the name - Marghazhi Utsavam for concerts held in Karthigai month. These concerts will be re-telecast ad nauseum till March - April also.

Someone does not want to conform to some spurious idea of theme based concert, then why all the adjectives ?

Short duration or rare krithis are not the reasons for these themes.

Radio concerts are of 1 hour duration and serious music can be heard without any themes. If rare krithis are of interest - there are still many krithis of Thyagaraja / Dikshitar that are out of circulation. If tamil krithis should be sung in TN, then what about concerts in Bangalore ?
Last edited by annamalai on 15 Dec 2008, 15:06, edited 1 time in total.

keerthi
Posts: 1309
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 14:10

Post by keerthi »

Balamuralikrishna's version of SreenIlOtpalanayike is in plain rIthigaula and not in NarIRItigaula..

rajaglan
Posts: 709
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 21:34

Post by rajaglan »

sridrect wrote:
rajaglan wrote:Whatever the theme name, this is the best format I want to listen, Rather than the theme concerts where the nuances of CM is diluted and more
lyrical research happens and more supply of songs happen. It is not that I donot like such things, but I will be very happy if they can telecast a
traditional CM concert in TV, especially for the nonchennai rasikas (who feel very dry) during the season.

How great it will be, if there is a Live telecast of Sudha, Vijay Siva, Sanjay, U Srinivas, TMK, Soumya, Gurucharan, Prassna venkatraman
concerts in Music Academy in HDTV version of Jaya TV (I guess it is not far away considering In USA one can watch NBA live in HDTV transmission).
1. These thematic concerts are a welcome change from all the "other regular" concerts
2. It helps to listen to some rare compositions and know something about their compositions.
3. As far one Mr Sanjay Subrahmanyan goes, there is NO DILUTION of CM in such thematic concerts. Each one of his concert of last 6 years at Margazhi Mahautsavam for JAYA-TV is a gem. May be other "artistes" are diluting the nuances of CM :-)
Yes, Sanjay, Vijay Siva ..... definitely NO dilution. And may be many more.

Not many people understood my point. It is purely from a nonchennaiites point of view who donot have such a grand season
in their towns. Atleast the telecast can be a pure CM.

MMU & MMU telecast is over and above what goes on in chennai , and hence chennai rasikas should not complain. They simply have
overdose of CM traditional format in season and hence MMU should be very refreshing change for them..

prashant
Posts: 1658
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:01

Post by prashant »

vijay wrote:OB aDichufying - A tough one to translate. A sort of a charade or "going through the motions" usually associated with lack of sincerity...."winging it" comes close but has a more positive connotation...
Thanks for the valuable clarification, Vijay :-)

shashi
Posts: 8
Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 10:17

Post by shashi »

TMK is just singing to his strengths and also taking the safe route being his first time in Jaya TV's fest. Why should anyone be surprised?

srinidhi
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 08:59

Post by srinidhi »

Shashi,

TMK has sung in MMU earlier.

shashi
Posts: 8
Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 10:17

Post by shashi »

Oh when was that? I seem to have missed it. Don't find the clippings in Youtube either.

carnaticdasan
Posts: 86
Joined: 16 Jul 2008, 17:06

Post by carnaticdasan »

Prashant

From what i have gathered from the students in TN / Chennai,OB Aduchufying is a term meaning "Time pass ".Beating round the Bush without touching the cruz of the item.

Is this clear Prashant / Arasi

HarishankarK
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Joined: 27 Oct 2007, 11:55

Post by HarishankarK »

I donot think TM Krishna was singing in MMU last year or the year before last !!

arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

OB must have come from english words, is my guess since we use so many acronyms in India. O=over? I see several shades of meeaning in your posts here. One that fits well (standing for insincerity) makes me wonder if it is over-buttering up??

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

'OB adikaradhu' is part of madras tamil and has been around for decades to mean 'wasting time' and other different shades of meaning that Vijay and naarayanan have described. Not sure if it used in other parts of tamil nadu.

No one knows for sure where that came from. I have heard that one possibility is "Off Beat", meaning "off duty".

naarayanan
Posts: 178
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 19:01

Post by naarayanan »

'adikardhu' is part of madras thamizh. we add it invariably to all verbs to denote a lighter connotation. like copy adikardhu, thanni adikardhu, sight adikardhu et cetera.

ok oru coffee adichitu varen. bye

sbala
Posts: 629
Joined: 30 Jul 2006, 08:56

Post by sbala »

for those unfortunate souls who can't speak Madras tamizh but are interested in knowing more, I wholeheartedly recommend this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanglish

sridhar_ranga
Posts: 809
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 11:36

Post by sridhar_ranga »

vasanthakokilam wrote:Not sure if it used in other parts of tamil nadu.
Back in my +2/college days in Madurai (20+ years ago) it was definitely in vogue although the pronunciation was "OP aDikkaradu" in that part of the state...have heard from someone back then that it comes from "Out of Parade" (so no need to got thru the 'drill', can take it easy!).

Have seen that in Chennai speech many soft consonants turn hard (kuDisai is guDisai, you don't see a 'palli' (gecko) on the wall but a 'Balli', when you jump you don't tANDi-fy but dANDi-fy :) )
Last edited by sridhar_ranga on 17 Dec 2008, 22:09, edited 1 time in total.

rajeshnat
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Post by rajeshnat »

JayA tv's margazhi mahA utsavam has an advantage for artists to promote to bigger mass(whether thematic or not it is nearly the same) . But to me the musicians in running the popularity rat race are cannibalizing each other including themselves wherein folks at chennai and around do not go to sabha , instead they damn watch this 1 hour CM lip service.

Atleast they should not beam during margAzhi season. I do know lot of my accquintance who were used to going to sabhas from chennai and bangalore instead sit glued to jaya tv and not come to sabha. CM Musicians who are reading this should get together and not allow television to cannibalize the sabha live concerts .Are you all hearing?

I donot have any issues if Jaya tv airs during some other time other than Dec and Jan, still would prefer folks to come to sabha .
Last edited by rajeshnat on 17 Dec 2008, 22:51, edited 1 time in total.

Purist
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Joined: 13 May 2008, 16:55

Post by Purist »

I remember the grouse of a couple of CM vidwans in 60's when Drama and Cinema held sway,
regretting how they had drawn away sabha audiences. I doubt if any current day artist will stand up
against what rajeshnat terms 'cannibalize the sabha live concerts'. Infact it is otherway round, artists would be too willing if given a chance on TV.
Times have changed. Concert on TV's cater to another set of people. They do not appease
the connoisseur. If their number dwindle the reason is elsewhere. In short a tv program cannot
replicate sabha cuthcheri. What is 'popular' or becoming popular is another issue.

rajaglan
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 21:34

Post by rajaglan »

In the MMU telecast today , TMKrishna was in his best voice.
But kalyani, kaapi items were missing.
Even for mayamalagowlai, only the song was telecast.
So his trademark neraval and swarams at speed were missing in the entire concert.
I liked the mayamma, the best of I liked , it was short and super rendition. It had a small neraval.
Intha sowkya should have been there. I never heard this from him.
But overall I can understand the time limitations of the telecast with interlacing questions and advts.
Last edited by rajaglan on 30 Dec 2008, 19:15, edited 1 time in total.

bilahari
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Post by bilahari »

Rajaglan, mayamma was just wonderful. I liked the nariritigowla as well.

kadambam
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Post by kadambam »

Jaya TV is a huge catalyst in terms of mass visibility. A purist rasika will not prefer a Jaya TV concert format, as it does not have a full 'pandhi' of a concert. MMU is more of a mini meals kind with interactive sessions with the main artists. Hope this concept does not move into any main stream concerts.

bilahari
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:02

Post by bilahari »

Kadambam, it is interesting you say that because suddenly a lot of Jaya TV watching (less kutcheri going) people I've met this year wish concerts would become more interactive and engaging like the TV format!

mahesh3
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Post by mahesh3 »

TMK's Intha Sowkhya is one of his best reneditions that I have heard...remember his concert at Pammal Sabha in 2005...what a voice he had then!

rajaglan
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 21:34

Post by rajaglan »

Interactive sessions (question/answers and not lec-dem) look same unless there is an existing highly debated topics/questions.

Sanjay didnot answer THE question of this year. But VijaySiva answered THE question in an answer to a different question. And Bombay Jayasree took the same side as TMK in 'Coffee with Anu'. Anyway I am ready to listen to the interactive session if it is Sanjay, TMK or UKS. Always interesting.

But with increasing number of interviews, podcasts and media coverage by artist, I still prefer to listen to them sing if there is a TV telecast.
Last edited by rajaglan on 30 Dec 2008, 22:59, edited 1 time in total.

kadambam
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007, 04:10

Post by kadambam »

I don't mean to sound prophetic or anything, but i do notice some new trends emerging! Let's look with a HQ (Humour Quotient)

Like,

- more thematic concerts (weird themes like.. ragams that begin with K, concert replay (songlist of SSI's outstanding concert), experimental concert (main piece is a varnam or a thukkada) .....)

- Minimal trinity compositions in a concert ( more contemporary or post trinity dominating a concert)

- Accompanists beyond the traditional pakkavadyams/uppa pakkavadyams (piano,harmonium,Tabla,Tavil,Drums etc)

- Better Sound systems & technical enhancements

- listener's choice sweepstakes/contests (winner recommends his/her choice of Tukkada for the singer)

- 5-10 minute interval (already started in US)

- Finally, individual sponsorships.. like RMKV releases a Kalyani collection of sarees and sponsors all Kalyani rendered in the season!! or Leo Coffee does the same with all Kapi sponsorships! (:-)

vpadmana
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006, 05:08

Post by vpadmana »

annamalai wrote:Sree Neelothpala Nayike - Narireethigowla has been rendered by Balamuralkrishna Sr. and Kalpagam Swaminathan.
I think BMK has sung it in Reetigowlai and not Nariritigowlai. I do not necessarily agree with that interpretation.

The Venkatamakhi paddhati has D1 for their 20th mela raga - Nari Ritigowlai. Sangeetha Sampradaya Pradarshini clearly notates the song in Nariritigowlai. So I do not see a reason for BMK to "experiment" here. It changes the essence of the krithi to the point where it does not sound like a Dikshitar krithi anymore.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for innovation and creativity but not when it completely alters the essence of the composer's original creation. At that point, it ceases to be innovation and turns into a cheap gimmick.

TMK's rendition is authentic and classy. What is very interesting to observe is how much RK Shriramkumar and TMK are "in-sync" for that song. It shows that Semmangudi mama and DKJ mama have both preserved the original Sampradaya Pradarshini "paadantharam".

Ragjay
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Post by Ragjay »

I think that Alathur Brothers sang this song in Reethigowlai I dont think they would have innovated.... Ragjay

vpadmana
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Post by vpadmana »

I doubt it but if that is indeed so, it does not mean it adds credibility to that interpretation.

Ragjay
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Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 17:10

Post by Ragjay »

Madam there is no need to doubt this fact I have heard them render this song in Reethigowla .I dont understand your remark if that is so it does not mean it adds credibility to that interpretation. Certainly both the Brothers and MBK belong to different schools and it may so happen that like some of the Tyagaraja krithis are sung differently by different schools this could also be one such rendition. Ragjay

KSJaishankar
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Post by KSJaishankar »

I had been meaning to get a doubt clarified about this song for some time, and this thread is quite serendipitous.

I am giving the Anupallavi below:

dInajanArtti prabhanjana rItigauravE dEshika pradarshita cidrUpiNi nata bhairavE

Now, "ritigaurave" is taken as the raga mudra here, and Nariritigaula is given as the name of the raga, which is the name of the 20th melakartha in the Asampoorna mela paddhati. Two points:

- MD has used only ritigaula as the raga mudra, dropping the Nari, which is required to satisfy the Katapayadi scheme. Compare this with Sivakameswarim Chintaye in Kalyani, where he uses the complete name of the raga as per the Asampoorna scheme - Shanta Kalyani (Shanta Kalyana Guna Shalini) - Is this the reason some of the pathantaras have this kriti rendered in the commoner RitiGaula, rather than NariRitiGaula?

OR

- Interestingly, he has also used Natabhairavi in the same line, which is the 20th mela in the Sampoorna mela paddhati
Did MD intend to call the raga (or was it called as such) Natabhairavi in the Asampoorna paddhati also, and now that the name NataBhairavi is used for the krama sampoorna raga, the name Nariritigaula has gained currency?

Jaishankar

vpadmana
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006, 05:08

Post by vpadmana »

Removed.
Last edited by vpadmana on 11 Nov 2009, 01:00, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
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Post by arasi »

JAishankar,
I do not know the song but from the line that you have given: prabhanjana rItigauravE--
Is the rAgam hidden in two words? prabhanja/na rItigau/ravE?

KSJaishankar
Posts: 109
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:01

Post by KSJaishankar »

Arasi Ma'am ... very neat insight! In which case, NA RItigaura is valid in the Katapayadi scheme to get to 20. Not to belabour the point, but would that make the raga name NARItigaula? :) On a more serious note, I agree that Dikshitar does use only part of the raga names as the suchita mudra ... examles like ambudhi ganga kaveri YAMUNA in Jambupathe for Yamuna Kalyani or arunam nitya KALYANIM in Bhajare Re Chittha are many.

@vpadmana - please read my post before drawing your gun. I have NOT implied that the raga of this kriti is NataBhairavi. It was just a question of whether THIS raga (with the lakshana of this kriti, which we call NariRitigaula) was CALLED Natabhairavi by Dikshitar. Examples of the same names being used for two different ragas by Thyagaraja and Diskhitar are many - SuddhaSaveri, Devagandhari, Abheri, Devakriya etc.

Jaishankar

vpadmana
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006, 05:08

Post by vpadmana »

@Ragjay: Your point in the case of Shri Thyagaraja kritis is valid. Except for the Pancharatna kritis, I am not aware of any of the Thyagaraja kritis being notated. They have been passed along by the sishya parampara mostly through audio only.

That however is not the case with Shri MD's kritis. They have been clearly notated by his nephew, Shri Subbarama Dikshitar and have very specific structure, vibhakti and prAsam.

This is essentially why you see such a wide range of interpretations when it comes to Shri Thyagaraja's kritis but not as much in Shri MD's kritis.

So, we cannot compare the two to make the point about different interpretations. Please do not construe this to mean that one has to follow SSP to the letter (wouldn't that be wonderful!!) and only that is authentic and all else is not. I am not saying that. But by the same token, changing the rAgam completely to a different one is not warranted, IMHO.

vpadmana
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006, 05:08

Post by vpadmana »

@KSJaishankar: Your point is well taken. I did not mean to "draw the gun" but was only trying to clarify that I believe Dikshitar did not call the raga Nata Bhairavi, but Nari Ritigaula. Here's a transcript of a LecDem by Shri. RK Shriramkumar on Dikshitar.

http://ramsabode.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/

In this, please search for "KNOWLEDGE OF ASAMPURNA" and you will see the point that I have been trying (not too well it might seem) to make.

Ragjay
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Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 17:10

Post by Ragjay »

Madam I don't want to be drawn into a debate. I have simply stated what I heard. In case of Dr.M.B.K. we may presume he may have innovated( did he is a moot point) but one certainly does not attribute it to Alathur Brothers. It may be that SSP is authentic and contains the notated version of this krithi in Nararithi Gowla But there could have been an exception ,that is all what I am trying to state. Ragjay

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